Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Soldier killed after Army bosses barred him from opening fire on Taliban insurgents
Daily Mail ^ | 9th July 2011

Posted on 07/10/2011 12:17:06 PM PDT by george76

A widow revealed how her soldier husband was blown up in Afghanistan days after senior officers had apparently ‘laughed off’ his complaints that insurgents were being allowed to plant explosive devices unchallenged.

Sergeant Peter Rayner, 34, phoned his wife in a ‘highly stressed’ state four days before his death and was upset that his fears were not taken seriously.

She said he and his men had watched the enemy, using night-vision goggles, plant improvised explosive devices and were not allowed to attack them. He was allegedly told by one officer: ‘I am an Army Captain and you will do your job.’

...

Sergeant Rayner’s widow Wendy told an inquest in Bradford that the Army had promised that her concerns would be dealt with, but she said: ‘I have been fobbed off.’

Mrs Rayner told Bradford Coroner's Court her husband, who joined the Army at 17, had feared his own death. She said: ‘He was concerned about the number of explosive devices being planted in the area they were patrolling and had told higher ranks because he feared one of them would be killed.

‘He said they could see people planting these devices but could do nothing about it.

Sergeant Rayner told his wife that officers told him that he and his men could not open fire on insurgents planting bombs or make contact with them. His complaints were rejected by a Sergeant Major and a Captain, the inquest heard.

‘I think that if more notice had been taken of him, then he might not have died,’ she said. ‘Peter loved his men and would have done anything to stop them being killed.’

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; insurgent; insurgents; taliban; talibaninsurgents; unitedkingdom; waronterror
full title.

Soldier killed after Army bosses barred him from opening fire on Taliban insurgents planting roadside bombs

1 posted on 07/10/2011 12:17:08 PM PDT by george76
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: george76; archy

Sickening.


2 posted on 07/10/2011 12:23:58 PM PDT by Travis McGee (Castigo Cay is in print and on Kindle.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

Guess we never learned the Vietnam lesson - if you are not going to fight or allow your soldiers to take it to the enemy full blast, then pack up and get the hell out of there.


3 posted on 07/10/2011 12:25:51 PM PDT by Mr. Wright
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

Nore blood on Obama’s hands.


4 posted on 07/10/2011 12:25:51 PM PDT by Paperdoll (NO MORE BUSHS!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

These are the rules of engagment started under mcChrystal and continued and are absolute BS
this from the UK article should make everyone angry enough to call their congresspeople and say Get the Home.All of them,even the brave Brits like this one killed for sheer stupidity.

“A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: ‘The whole point of a counter insurgency operation is to protect the civilian population.’ He said soldiers had to go through a series of stages before opening fire and were sometimes asked to exercise ‘courageous restraint’ even when shots had been fired.

‘It is all about winning hearts and minds and using the least force possible,’ the spokesman said.


5 posted on 07/10/2011 12:31:14 PM PDT by RWGinger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

Stupid arse ROE’s are liuterally killing our soldiers.
Hell, with this type crap, we’d be better off sending in the blue helmets and their ammo-less or rubber-bullet guns.... =.=


6 posted on 07/10/2011 12:32:49 PM PDT by cranked
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RWGinger
‘It is all about winning hearts and minds and using the least force possible,’ the spokesman said.

To them, it's

Submit or DIE!

Muck Fislam!

7 posted on 07/10/2011 12:34:28 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (It is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; ~Vattel's Law of Nations)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: RWGinger

Winning hearts and minds with restraint only works when the civilian population values restraint. Arabs and Afghans do not value restraint, they value force. Consequently, Arabs and Afghans see our “restraint” as weakness.


8 posted on 07/10/2011 12:37:22 PM PDT by fini
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: rawcatslyentist

We have to play by their rules. Not Obama’s who is on their side. He is trying to get America caught up in the death by a thousand cuts, economically, militarily , politically, morally....

2012 is still a long ways away!!!


9 posted on 07/10/2011 12:39:17 PM PDT by himno hero ("Armageddon is well seeded, America will pay"... Barrack Obama's vision)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: fini

and yet that remains the ROE in Afghanistan
protect the civilian population as they plant IEDs

I couldn’t belive it when McChrystal said it back in 09 and I can’t believe it today
I am sorry the brits are foced to go along with it


10 posted on 07/10/2011 12:39:44 PM PDT by RWGinger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee
Sickening.

Somebody needs to send that young widow a copy of Freddy Forsythe's 2000 collection of short stories, The Veteran. With but a single reading she'll know why it came her way, and That Which Next Needs to be Done.

But no matter. Her late husband's mates have already read the book, and they know what to do and, of course, how it's done.


11 posted on 07/10/2011 12:50:24 PM PDT by archy (I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: george76

Officers who do this to their men would be wise to sleep with one eye open if Vietnam is any indicator.


12 posted on 07/10/2011 12:53:38 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (From her lips to the voters' ears: Debbie Wasserman Schultz: "We own the economy" June 15, 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: archy

My uncle who flew a ton of missions in the pacific in WW2, after seeing what is going on today both in the field and in DC, made a comment that made me really take notice. He said: you know, I am beginning to think I was shooting at the wrong enemy as I cannot believe what is going on now here.

That is one sorry state of affairs in my book.


13 posted on 07/10/2011 12:56:27 PM PDT by Mouton (Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: george76

Did anyone notice this was the Brits?


14 posted on 07/10/2011 12:57:22 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

Some one had blunder’d:
Their’s not to make reply,
Their’s not to reason why,
Their’s but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death...


15 posted on 07/10/2011 12:58:42 PM PDT by DUMBGRUNT (The best is the enemy of the good!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RWGinger

To even dream of winning hearts and minds in Afghanistan is insane’ These people do not want us there, there isn’t enough money or good will in the world to make these people like us. Get the heck out of there, We have good men dying for no reason, and if they aren’t dying they are getting their hands and legs blown off.

There is but one way to fight a war and that is all out.
Kill them down until they lose their will to fight. Anything else is suicide.


16 posted on 07/10/2011 1:14:03 PM PDT by Venturer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Wright
From my modest military experience, I can aver that there are more horses' asses with captain's bars than there are horses. These incidents are tragic. And need to be addressed and corrected. But it hardly serves anyone to indict the whole Army on the basis of one such screw-up.
17 posted on 07/10/2011 1:17:58 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: george76
This is why God invented fragging.
18 posted on 07/10/2011 1:24:25 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." - Bertrand de Jouvenel des Ursins)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RWGinger

“‘It is all about winning hearts and minds and using the least force possible,’ the spokesman said. “

Just wondering where are the facts, supporting this ever, ever working?

Seems to be facts argue for surges (more force) not hearts and minds (less force).


19 posted on 07/10/2011 1:30:19 PM PDT by truth_seeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: RWGinger

“‘It is all about winning hearts and minds and using the least force possible,’ the spokesman said. “

Just wondering where are the facts, supporting this ever, ever working?

Seems to be facts argue for surges (more force) not hearts and minds (less force).


20 posted on 07/10/2011 1:30:27 PM PDT by truth_seeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Wright
Guess we never learned the Vietnam lesson - if you are not going to fight or allow your soldiers to take it to the enemy full blast, then pack up and get the hell out of there.

We learned, and for a long timethat was our plan. But hubris set in, and we forgot.

21 posted on 07/10/2011 1:32:04 PM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Wright
Guess we never learned the Vietnam lesson - if you are not going to fight or allow your soldiers to take it to the enemy full blast, then pack up and get the hell out of there.

We learned, and for a long timethat was our plan. But hubris set in, and we forgot.

22 posted on 07/10/2011 1:32:13 PM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: george76

Get our troops out of there already. We are not in it to win it in any meaningful way.


23 posted on 07/10/2011 1:42:55 PM PDT by News Junkie ( Reason and Faith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Wright

We have gone a step further since Vietnam — we now fight the enemy overseas and simultaneously let him in through the backdoor a.k.a. Muslim immigration.

And congresscritters are quiet while planning their next pay raise.


24 posted on 07/10/2011 1:44:54 PM PDT by 353FMG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: george76

It’s horrid enough to lose someone you love, much less in a war, but because their superiors are reluctant to confront the real enemy is inexcusable. I don’t know that I’d have it in me ever to forgive.


25 posted on 07/10/2011 1:54:56 PM PDT by EDINVA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

On another forum a poster (a Scotsman) claimed it was a good rule. Afghan peasants often bury meat in a hole due to lack of refrigeration and shooting someone because they were digging a hole in a hill was murder!
If someone plants a bomb alongside a road or trail I doubt they’re preserving meat. Shoot them.


26 posted on 07/10/2011 2:07:24 PM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

Is the deceased a US or UK soldier? (didn’t click the link...that’s why some excerpts are useless)


27 posted on 07/10/2011 2:16:54 PM PDT by hattend (Its a matter of public record that I did not go to Harvard Law School, but I can add. - Sarah Palin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

Zero’s kinder, gentler, ROE and handling of muzzies bears fruit..........


28 posted on 07/10/2011 2:21:06 PM PDT by doorgunner69
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hattend

He was British, but it could apply equally to any soldier serving there.


29 posted on 07/10/2011 2:22:05 PM PDT by Amberdawn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: truth_seeker
If these people are allowed to plant IEDs and kill our troops and we do nothing to stop them we are not winning their hearts and minds or the war. They will just plant more IEDs and kill more of our men. Kill them and then leave their bodies on the side of the road so the the other locals can see what happens to terrorists.
30 posted on 07/10/2011 2:24:04 PM PDT by Americanexpat (Everytime I see that guy's face ot)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Amberdawn

Does US military have the same ROE?

If so, lets come home. Hell, lets come home anyway.


31 posted on 07/10/2011 2:27:46 PM PDT by hattend (Its a matter of public record that I did not go to Harvard Law School, but I can add. - Sarah Palin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: hattend

I can’t say so, but wouldn’t be surprised. Two places to check are blackfive.net and thisainthell.us.


32 posted on 07/10/2011 2:30:59 PM PDT by Amberdawn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Americanexpat

Kill them and hang their bodies from telephone poles.


33 posted on 07/10/2011 2:34:27 PM PDT by hattend (Its a matter of public record that I did not go to Harvard Law School, but I can add. - Sarah Palin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee

This is why I am against all the wars. Total bullshit to allow deaths like this. Bring em all home - our men are not deserving of this bullshit, same w the uk.


34 posted on 07/10/2011 2:38:19 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: The flash mob who wonÂ’t leave.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 353FMG

So far, with exception, I am very disappointed in our Congress that was sworn in to Office in January 2011


35 posted on 07/10/2011 2:45:00 PM PDT by Mr. Wright
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: george76

When I showed our ROE to my wife after returning from Iraq she got really pissed.


36 posted on 07/10/2011 2:55:06 PM PDT by jesseam (Been there, done that)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RWGinger

Today it is:
“It is all about winning hearts and minds and using the least force possible,’ the spokesman said.”

Yesteryear, during the Vietnam War, an other domestic commie said:
“We are winning the hearts and minds of the people.”

Communism then and now.


37 posted on 07/10/2011 3:27:18 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles, Kill the EPA!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: george76

PC ‘war’, getting our troops killed for nothing!


38 posted on 07/10/2011 5:12:48 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DUMBGRUNT

But more than 600 have died.


39 posted on 07/10/2011 5:18:56 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: fini; RWGinger; Venturer

great points here. this isn’t rocket science. and we need to remember that it wasn’t only McCrystal, but also Petraous.
Gen. Petraous also signed off and approved of these insane ROE. (kind of the opposite of Col. West...)

“Winning hearts and minds with restraint only works when the civilian population values restraint. Arabs and Afghans do not value restraint, they value force. Consequently, Arabs and Afghans see our “restraint” as weakness.”
///
brilliant point.
our leaders fundamentally do not understand the culture there.
liberals accuse the US of being egocentric and looking at things through the filter of American culture. Instead of making the effort to understand their culture.

...yet that is exactly what they have done. and it is getting our troops killed.

also, RWGinger pointed out:
“A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: ‘The whole point of a counter insurgency operation is to protect the civilian population.’

...how is showing restraint by NOT killing insurgents, achieving the “goal” of protecting the civilian population, from the insurgency?!?


40 posted on 07/10/2011 5:35:31 PM PDT by Elendur (the hope and change i need: Sarah / Colonel West in 2012)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: george76

The REAL story is this:

TO GET THE TRUTH IN THE USA, YOU MUST READ A ***BRITISH*** NEWSPAPER.

Your Legacy Media has BETRAYED you, and the chilling fact is that ***YOU*** are the new media.

Got that?

The truth during the Bubba years is that the really hard-hitting stories were only reported by Brit papers, and now also that is true.

For new Freepers: the Monica mess was in Drudge’s hands and we were yelling for over 6 months here about the finest details and the ENTIRE legacy media knew ALLLLLL about it and said NOTHING.

And that’s happening now also.

KILL YOUR TV. Don’t click on legacy media net links that are slow-loading almost impossible to later get out of anyway.


41 posted on 07/11/2011 1:55:21 PM PDT by gaijin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson