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To: curiosity
You are mistaken. Go take a look at Title III, section 322 of the immigration and nationality act of 1952, which was in effect at the time. If you do, you will find that any minor child of a US citizen residing in the US could obtain naturalized citizenship. There was no restriction on the age of the mother, or any other barrier that would have prevented Obama's mom from getting him naturalized. You can find the full text of the law here:

First of all, we were talking about the actions of the Grandmother, not the mother. The Grandmother might not have been able to take this action. The pertinent text is as follows.


Sec. 322. (a)A child born outside of the United States, one or both of who's parents is at the time of petitioning for the naturalization of the child, a citizen of the United States by birth or naturalization, may be naturalized if under the age of 18 years and not otherwise disqualified from becoming a citizen by reason of section 313,314,315 or 318 of this Act, and if residing permanently in the United States, with the citizen parent, pursuant to a lawful admission for permanent residence, on the petition of such citizen parent, upon compliance with all the provisions of this title, except that no particular period of residence or physical presence in the United States shall be required. If the child is of tender years he may be presumed to be of good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States.

A few quibbles.
Firstly it says on application of petition by "Citizen Parent." I read that to mean that Stanley Ann would have to do the petitioning, not the Grandmother. (This is outside the scope of the immediate discussion of what the GRANDMOTHER could do.) Seeing as how much of an idiot Stanley Ann was, would her mother have thought her sensible enough to do it?
Secondly, Section 313 requires that the person being naturalized have absolutely no affiliation whatsoever with Communists. Obviously his mother violates this requirement of the law. :)
Thirdly, Section 318 requires the person being naturalized to have entered the country legally.

Joking aside, you have a big "maybe." It neither proves that it was possible, nor that Madelyn Dunham knew of this. I have been given bad advice by multiple attorneys plenty of times. There is no overt indication of how long the petition period is supposed to take. Stanley Ann and Baby Barry might be in Kenya before citizenship is granted, and if gone long enough, the child might lose any chance of citizenship for failure to meet residency requirements. (Rogers v. Bellei)

How much easier to just fill out a form and count on Hawaii's easy going bureaucracy to make things simple?

Bottom line: there was no reason for Obama's grandma to commit fraud to get him citizenship. He could have been naturalized legally. All it would require would be for his mother to fill out some paperwork and send it in to the INS, and he would have gotten his citizenship as soon as the papers were processed.

Yes, we only need rely on the responsibility of a girl who takes a Russian Class in 1960, quickly gets pregnant out of wedlock to a visiting African student, (allegedly) thereafter immediately flees to Seattle when the baby is born (thereby abandoning her most promising source of support) and who possesses no visible means of support, to exert herself sufficiently to deal with this pressing legal matter regarding a son which she will abandon in less than ten years anyway.

I read her as a bit of a flake who cannot be trusted to do the responsible or sensible thing. I suspect her mother knew her better than anyone else, thought so as well.

360 posted on 07/21/2011 1:07:02 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (The TAIL of Hawaiian Bureaucracy WAGS the DOG of Constitutional Law.)
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To: DiogenesLamp
Your quibbles are silly.


If Obama were born in Canada, as you allege, entering the US legally would not be an issue as the law at the time allowed any US citizen parent of a non-citizen child to obtain a resident visa for the child. See Title I, section 101 and Title II section 205 of the law in my previous post. And even if she didn't bring him to the US right away, she had until age 18 to do so in order to apply for his citizenship.

SAD's alleged Communism:

First, this is 1961 we're talking about. The red scare, which was in full force in 1952, when the law was written, was over by then. McCarthy had been censured, and scrutinizing people's comomunist associations was a thing of the past by 1961. Second, the law only mentions the person to be naturalized, not his mother. Furthermore, law explictly states that a child of "tender years" can be assumed to be of good moral charcter, which includes not being communist. Third, even if the mother's politics were relvant (and they weren't), there's no evidence to even suspect SAD was a member of any communist organization. And no, the fact that she held lefty political views, was an atheist, and studied Russian isn't evidence that she was a member of the communist party or other communist organization, which is what the 1952 law was talking about (and no one cared about by 1961, anyway).

The need for Stanley's cooperation:

You are right, Obama's mom would be the one who would have to apply to get Obama his naturalized citizenship. You allege that because she managed to get herself knocked up her first semester in college, we have good reason to suspect she might not do the responsible thing and get her son citizenship.

I'm sorry, but your argument is absurd. Not every womam who has an accidental pregnancy is an idiot. Accidents happen to intelligent people. Condoms can fail. Sexual desire has a way of clouding people's judgement. It doesn't make people decide not to get US citizenship for their child. SAD's subequent successful academic career proves she was no idiot.

And no, flying to Seattle after the birth was not irresponsible or dumb. She obviously wanted to get away from her husband, and fleeing to a city where she had a network of friends from her high school days was an eminently sensible thing to do.

BTW, why do you say it is "dumb" or "irresponsible" to study Russian in college?

At the end of the day, it is you who have the "big maybe," not me.

Just look at what you are alleging. You are claiming, without a shred of evidence, that Obama was born in Canada. Then his mother somehow snuck him accross the border, despite the fact that she could have brought him over legally on an immigrant visa, and then his mother or grandmother committed document fraud in order to get him US citizenship, despite the fact that it would have been relatively easy to get it for him legally.

And no, getting him US citizenship legally was not a "big maybe," your quibbles (debunked above) notwithstanding.

On the other hand, you have asolutely no evidence to support this BC fraud scenario of yours. None at all.

All you can say is that I can't prove it didn't happen, and I agree, I can't. But I can't prove the government didn't fake the moon landing, either. Doesn't mean it's pluasible.

If you think anyone not already emotionaly invested in birtherism would consider your secenario even remotely plausible, then you are deluding yourself.

No, it is not impossible, but it's about as plausible as the conspiracy theory that the US government faked the moon landing.

Have a nice day.

363 posted on 07/22/2011 2:22:15 PM PDT by curiosity
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