Skip to comments.Is the GOP about to cave on taxes?
Posted on 07/16/2011 3:47:55 PM PDT by ejdrapes
Is the GOP about to cave on taxes? [snip] House Speaker John A. Boehner of Ohio underscored the point to dispel the notion that failure to allow more borrowing is an option. "He said if we pass Aug. 2, it would be like 'Star Wars,'" said Rep. Scott DesJarlais, a freshman from Tennessee. "I don't think the people who are railing against raising the debt ceiling fully understand that." The warnings appeared to have softened the views of at least some House members who, until now, were inclined to dismiss statements by administration officials, business leaders and outside economists that the economic impact would be dire if the federal government were suddenly unable to pay its bills. Freshman Rep. Steve Womack (R-Ark.) said the presentation about skyrocketing interest rates that could result from downgraded bond ratings was "sobering."
July 16, 2011
At a closed-door meeting Friday morning, GOP leaders turned to their most trusted budget expert, Rep. Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin, to explain to rank-and-file members what many others have come to understand: A fiscal meltdown could occur if Congress fails to raise the debt ceiling. [snip]
House Speaker John A. Boehner of Ohio underscored the point to dispel the notion that failure to allow more borrowing is an option.
"He said if we pass Aug. 2, it would be like 'Star Wars,'" said Rep. Scott DesJarlais, a freshman from Tennessee. "I don't think the people who are railing against raising the debt ceiling fully understand that."
The warnings appeared to have softened the views of at least some House members who, until now, were inclined to dismiss statements by administration officials, business leaders and outside economists that the economic impact would be dire if the federal government were suddenly unable to pay its bills.
Freshman Rep. Steve Womack (R-Ark.) said the presentation about skyrocketing interest rates that could result from downgraded bond ratings was "sobering."
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
Does this say Paul Ryan advocated raising taxes? Because the headline suggests that the outcome of all this angst is that the GOP will raise taxes. So, where does it say he’s advocating raising taxes?
`If they are that scared why did they start this in the first place? Lame.
Everyone has always known that it will eventually be raised.
The only doubts are what the Republicans would extract in exchange for raising it.
The cited article has a sensational headline that isn't supported at all.
Time for the government to eat its peas.
The people have had enough of them.
Deal with it.
Maybe it’s time we held a Peas Rally, send a can of peas to Obama to let him know we’re not in the 80% that want our taxes raised.
They’re 100% correct as to what happens if noting is done. The key is to get far more cuts that any hike in the ceiling. Had they cut spending several months ago it need not have come to this but now,how much spending can they cut in 2 weeks without wrecking the economy?Any hike can be temporary. Let them sign a bill giving 2T now with the mandate that the treasury has to retire 1T over the next 12 months and another 1T the 12 months following. By that point much less spending so they can reduce the debt every year.
The only other option is standing strong and hope Obama caves in on enough spending today to buy another few months. I honestly believe he would rather let all hell break loose rather than give up Obamacare and scale back other programs immediately.
Who blinks first?
If any of my Republicans vote for raising the Debt Ceiling or Raising Taxes I will vote against them.
Bye, bye GOP if this happens.
Currently the government can borrow money on a 5 year note for less than 1.5% per year if the debt ceiling is raised. The exact rate last Friday on the five year Treasury Note was 1.446% [This is money that the government borrows from banks, institutions, individual buyers, other governments.] This rate is LESS THAN INFLATION. We can be using this money to repair our failing bridges, roads and other infrastructure. Of course, we should cut wasteful spending and encourage private support for things like our space program that have commercial potential.
It doesn’t. But as long as the GOP agrees with the notion that not raising the debt ceiling = 2008 all over again then Obama will hold out and push even harder for “revenues” aka tax increases. I agree with Gingrich - instead of spending all this time meeting with Obama the House should start passing things and force Obama to veto it. I hear they’re going to vote on cut, cap and balance next week. About f’ng time I say.
What happens if nothing is done? There doesn’t seem to be agreement that the world will blow up if the debt ceiling isn’t increased. If we just cut spending NOW why would we even need to raise it?
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Good point scream, it appears to be more of a "deal cutting, back scratching, self protecting, political move" than anything else IF true.
I find this really hard to believe, as he has said in press conferences "no it wont".
I hate to say it - but it ain’t the ceiling - it’s the spending.
Put the ceiling wherever it needs to be to cover promised spending “TODAY” but chop with an ax any and all spending bills as of today.
No, Ubama didn't say "peas". He said "piece". Ubama wants the Republicans to "eat their piece", like a suicidal cop.
I fully expect the Republicans to cave and thus set the stage for four more years of Obama. We have little or no Statesmanship in our government.
Our economy is a wreck because of irresponsible spending, mainly by the Democrats. Giving in now sets the stage to give in again and again until our economy collapses.
Are we just saying we will do it "right" next time, but for now we blink and find more excuses, rationale, and explanations for why we must continue irresponsible spending, borrowing, printing, and taxing.
I keep hearing about the 80% who want their taxes raised. It makes me wonder if that includes the 50% who currently pay little or no taxes? My BS detector is screaming in my ear as we speak...
There is a maneuver I have not heard discussed.
Why not raise the debt ceiling, but define the amount and the time period to effect something less than the instantaneous 1.4Trillion cut.
In other words, raise it 500B and say that has to last 5 months. Then in 5 months another 500B for 5 months. This is a 300-400Billion cut in FY2012.
In other words, it doesn’t have to be black or white. Allocate them 500B for 5 mos and tell them to stretch it as they will.
Is the GOP about to cave on taxes?
Was there ever any doubt?
Currently the government is spending very little on Obamacare. What I want to know is were we asleep at the switch when the unfunded Drug program was passed in the last administration? So far as the House forcing Obama to veto their bills, ain’t gonna happen as the bills also have to be passed by the Senate before they go to the president. Even if the next president is a Republican bills will still have to be passed by the Senate, and even if there are more Republicans in the Senate after next election, there still are unlikely to be enough votes for the supermajority needed to pass bills favored by conservatives and tea party people. Thus, no matter who is president, compromise will be needed unless the people prefer gridlock.
My point to myself is this:
When they talk of raising it, they ask “How much do you need to last to February 2013?”
Wrong question. Raise it, and say, this is how much you get. Stretch it.
They always raise the limit and push the cuts into infinity, where they are never happening, but are GOING to happen--NOT!
What a bunch of wusses. They need to forget about Keynes and try a litte of Ludwig von Mises. He believed govt. intervention just PROLONGED recovery and said let the free market work it out because the market would recover quicker. So far, he's right!
I predict--they will raise the limit. Dems will run on GOP CAUSING this Obama crisis and obstructing an early settling of the problem.
The GOP needs to holler every day about the Dems NEVER offering a budget for 2 years except the Obama budget, which was so inflated, no Dem even voted for it.Dems have been in contravention of the law of the land for over 2 years. Why aren't we hearing about this instead of Kasey Anthony ad naseum?
How much spending can be cut (agreed to by all those elected officials who all have a few programs they will go to the wall for)In the next 2 weeks?
If nothing is done the cost of financing will go up. More of the govts revenue will go towards servicing the debt. I have to think if we default over this issue the ratings companies might take longer to raise our rating back up than they would have in the past.
There will certainly be some checks not paid. Most likely something like not paying doctors and hospitals everything owed them (my guess. easier to stiff an institution than someone relying on a check to eat or pay rent). Defense contractors,stuff like that. Big ones will continue to pay salaries for awhile anyway.
They needed this sense of urgency 6 months ago.
Good! if it’s so bad if we default then I suggest that the president cave!
Reid won’t let any bill get to Obama that would be vetoed. Senate takes the heat,head of the ticket remains above the fray.
What happens is that we can’t pay bills that are already in the pipeline. As a homey example. Your family has $3,000 a month income, and you have $3,000 a month in bills coming in each month. Suddenly your boss cuts back your hours because of the economy and starts paying you $2,600 a month. So either you don’t pay $400 in bills already committed, or you mess up your credit rating and interest on some of these payments increases. So, what do you do, not pay or go to your credit union and borrow enough to carry you for a couple of months until you can cut back on you living expenses.
If we don’t raise the debt limit we will not have the money to pay our already committed obligations. Thus our credit rating will be damaged, and it will, for reasons too complicated to go into here, end up costing us all more money. For example, I have an equity line of credit at a very good rate of interest. My interest rate will go up which will squeeze my already limited income, as my Social Security has been frozen for 3 years while food, fuel and medical costs have risen.
When we have the debt limit increase, then we can focus on reducing our expenses, and we won’t be paying higher interest rates on the national debt as we would if we ruin our national credit rating.
Just Pledge those resources against long term bonds at a rate set by the government.
Think of it as a REVERSE nationalization.
Obviously all of that land isn't the quality of Iowa farmland (currently $3000 per acre) but it's not all scrub either. Wyoming, not overly developed, still goes for $980 per acre (on average)
If we could pledge the US government owned total of 809408213 acres for a bottom end price of $500 per acre we would have $444 billion in value to play with. Obviously some of that land is worth much more, but there you have it if we just pledged it against bonds which would be given to claimants for payment at some future time.
If we could claim it at the price of raw farmland in Iowa, we'd have $4.8 trillion to play with.
There are OTHER resources of course. Highways to be sold to toll road companies; buildings; housing; etc.
There are oil bearing lands, coal, other minerals.
Look, I'm not an economist, but without very much work at all I came up with something to cover about 1/3 of the national debt ~ not just this year's debt (called a deficit).
The United States does not face default ~ there might be a bump in the road, but certainly a federal resource and land bonding authority can be conjured up in a few days.
Why aren’t the repubs pointing out that half of Obama’s staff should be in jail for non-payment of taxes.
They are quick to raise them, of course, because they don’t pay them.
I got a different take on the situation from James Taranto in WSJ, Best of the Web. He claims that Obama is softening.
Obama’s approval ratings dropped again, he’s down to 42% job approval AND debt reduction. No matter which way Obama turns, he’s losing his base.
Mitch could put together a bailoutplan in about 10 minutes ~ he's a smart guy.
His price is going to be that he gets to be President.
I can't speak for Iowa, but Hoosier farmground is going for $6-9,000/acre these days. Local people doing the buying, too.
Not that that really has any bearing on the rest of your post.
Even those Editors and normal folks who opposed the leasing of the tollroad here in IN, except for the hardcore Mitch haters, now admit it was a great idea and has worked wonderfully for the state.
If the GOP agrees to raise taxes, I will not vote GOP ever again and whatever happens in 2012 happens. There will be no difference whatsoever and I will take my chances in the future of a 3rd party. We will have no other choice.
Here are the facts, as reported by MarketWatch and the Bipartisan Policy Center. You do the math:
* The federal government receives approximately $200 billion in revenues each month.
* Interest on the national debt in August will be approximately $29 billion.
* Social Security will cost about $49. 2 billion.
* Medicare and Medicaid will cost about $50 billion.
* Active duty military pay will cost about $2.9 billion.
* Veterans affairs programs will cost about $2.9 billion.
This still leaves $39 billion each month. Can you make the Dems explain how this will lead to Armageddon?
If Congress doesn’t agree to raise taxes and the national debt limit, they will then have to make the tough choices about which of the remaining programs gets paid or cut and by how much:
* Defense vendors
* IRS refunds
* Food stamps and welfare
* Unemployment benefits
* Department of Education
* Department of Housing and Urban Development
* Department of Justice, etc. etc.
In sum, federal spending would have to be cut about 44 percent.
So the next time you hear Obama, or Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, or Sen. Charles Schumer, D-NY, or House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, or any of the multiple Democratic echo chambers in the liberal mainstream media, POINT OUT that what they are saying is pure demagoguery, or you could just call them liars.
The Greeks did propose to start selling off some of the smaller islands but the traditionalists just flipped their corks.
The United States could bond the public lands/resources over to Social Security. As Social Security needs to be paid off, due to the Baby Boomers retiring, public lands could be sold selectively to redeem the bonds. As the next generation comes on line (and the Baby Boomers die off) the same land and resources bond authority could buy back land for whatever purposes could be envisioned in public use (and also be bonded against Social Security in the same way).
ALL the major highways can be turned into tollroads and used as public profit centers dedicated to all other road care.
the author, Rick Moran, the name is familiar, isn’t he a frigging comedian?
With active unemployment at 9% and more underemployment, consider what would happen if suddenly there were no unemployment benefits and no food stamps. Since you are probably a supporter of the 2nd amendment, consider what these suddenly hungry people would do about their situation. Unless you live way out in the country, you would probably be very unhappy with the results.
In addition to the programs you mention for cutting, remember that salaries have to be paid to all those employees who are sending out the checks for social security, medicare, veterans benefits, military pay, etc.
. The exact rate last Friday on the five year Treasury Note was 1.446% [This is money that the government borrows from banks, institutions, individual buyers, other governments.] This rate is LESS THAN INFLATION.
Great, an enemy plant here at FR.
Three things gave you away. The demonstrated insanity of massive increases of spending while bankrupt. The fallacy that money would go to "repair our failing bridges, roads and other infrastructure" (and the immoral supposition that people in TX should be taxed and future generations cast into life-long poverty so that goonion thugs in NJ can claim to repair a bridge). And finally, the bald faced lie about the rate of inflation. Your number is off by at least an order of magnitude.
i think youre thinking of rick moranis of “honey, i shrunk the kids” ands “spaceballs” fmae
Nope, we already tried that. The ONLY thing that is focusing Obama and the crazed Democrats on cutting spending is not approving an increase in the debt limit.
When responsible people keep talking about default, knowing that debt servicing is only 6% of revenues, you know they are lying.
There is not a chance in Hades that Obama will purposefully cause default by failing to service the debt, & forever be known worldwide as the One Great Welsher. This is the default McConnell & Co. are so worried about?
Why do the Pubs need a closed door meeting to explain why the debt ceiling must be raised? Is it that their primary reasoning is purely political & has NOTHING to do with what is good for the country? If their reasoning is so sound, why can't they step up to a public mic & tell Americans why the ceiling must be raised, w/o using hyperbole such as “Star Wars”?
The truth is this. Incumbents have a far tougher time getting reelected & maintaining their leadership positions w/o Federal money to buy votes & contributions. The DC starves the pols of this federal bribery money. Obama desperately needs the DC raised to get reelected. McConnell needs it to keep his leadership position. Without it, he has no chance of being majority leader in a room full of newly elected conservatives. Same for Boehner.
Hitting the DC forces Congress & Obama to deal with the entitlements mess. Raising it gives them another of innumerable passes. Reaching the DC forces an immediate balanced budget & leaves Congress no choice but to write & pass a balanced budget quickly. The DC puts a stop to Pork. Finally, the DC exposes those Rats/Pubs who care more about themselves than they do America.
There is nothing catastrophic about a gov’t that must spend w/i its revenues. Would world markets frown if Greece were to balance its budget tomorrow? Hardly! Everybody knows we are headed for world catastrophe if the USA does not severely cut spending. The DC does exactly that, now, not 5-10 years from now. I believe markets will rejoice at a suddenly balance budget. I believe the economy will rebound based on the sure knowledge that Congressional insanity has been capped.
If you want Obama reelected, no budget passed, & spending continue uncontrolled, then you need to support raising the DC. You are saying, “I like the way things are going, & I want more of the same.”
Every word is dead on correct.
That didn't work for the last dozen debt limit increases, so let's get serious on expense cuts now.
To your example, suppose you had just blown $15,000 in Vegas as your personal stimulus. Before your bank raised your line of credit, I think they'd like to know that you weren't planning to go back to Vegas next year.
TARP and the stimulus were supposed to be one-time events. Now Obama is trying to bake that $1.5 trillion a year into the base line budget. The Republicans should stand firm on pulling out that out of the budget. Obama claimed that Obamacare was revenue neutral, let's hold him to that promis.