Skip to comments.What Did The Oslo Killer Want?
Posted on 07/23/2011 9:22:38 PM PDT by redpoll
I have just finished reading through what appears to be the 1,518-page manifesto and handbook of the alleged perpetrator of the worst terrorist attack in Norwegian history.
The manifesto, bylined by someone calling himself Andrew Berwick, is entitled "2083: A European Declaration of Independence" and was posted on Stormfront.org, a white supremacist website, and discovered by American blogger Kevin I. Slaughter. [UPDATE: Norwegian TV has confirmed that the author is indeed the Oslo shooter, according to the New York Times.]
In it, "Berwick" declares himself a "Justiciar Knight Commander," a leading member of a "re-founded" Knights Templar group formed at an April 2002 meeting in London. He claims the founding group has 9 members, whom he does not name, and that three other sympathizers were not able to attend the original meeting.
"Our purpose," the document reads, is to "seize political and military control of Western European countries and implement a cultural conservative political agenda."
(Excerpt) Read more at blog.foreignpolicy.com ...
The flashy, public murder of civilians as victims of ideological war as pioneered by the Communists and modern Islam has now become the norm. This guy makes the clumsy little pamphlets of the Soviets and the grainy videos of Osama bin Laden seem so out of date. Apparently he's produced a video with good production values - sadly, the bandwidth here in the Alaska Bush isn't up to broadband standards. His admiration for Al Qaeda is admiration for methods, not philosophy. It is almost science-fiction surreal to imagine well-produced and choreographed multimedia terror. By the way, considering the glee with which many Norwegians embraced the idea of the Aryan Ubermensch, it doesn't surprise me that there are these guys, too.
I don’t give a rip what he wanted, just put him down like a rabid dog.
Didn't some Mexican drug gang recently describe themselves as Knights Templar too?
“[UPDATE: Norwegian TV has confirmed that the author is indeed the Oslo shooter, according to the New York Times.]”
according to the New York Times
Somewhere today was an article noting that in Norway he can get up to 21 years in prison for his day of infamy. He is a Morlock and the Norwegians are...Eloi (HG Wells, “The Time Machine”...movie with Rod Taylor).
Why would anyone waste time analyzing this guy’s motives and reasoning? And why give him a forum to “explain himself?” Bottom line is that he wanted to kill innnocent people and he succeeded. He should be strung up, but sadly, he probably won’t get the justice he so richly deserves here on earth.
And the perp who is ~30 years old still lives with his mother. Irony??
"according to the New York Times" has about as much credibility as "according to Whoopi Goldberg."
Thank you, it’s feeding the media agenda.
Wow 21 years in prison for killing 90 people! Man they are really strict in Norway!(sarc in the extreme!)
He just needed to get laid. Just like the VA Tech shooter a while back, or for that matter a good 99% of these types.
>> Why would anyone waste time analyzing this guys motives and reasoning?
Because it’s foolish to ignore the factors that could help to prevent similar massacres and destruction.
The details are to society’s benefit especially to those the Left is attempting to condemn via superficial association.
In another thread someone had posted this link
My first thought on reading the writings found via Google was these are not the writings of a person who has become so radicalized that he will attack innocent civillians and government targets.
So in my opinion there were two possibilities, he purposly did not reveal his true ideology in public or he agreed to be set up as a fall guy for this. It is of course possible that both of these are true.
In my opinion there is a psychology of radicalism that just does not show up in those few posts. Frankly his views are not extreme in them and he shows a flexibility of thought that is not evident in the writings of those who are fanatics to a cause or belief.
The writings also do not reflect any of the Christian fundamentalism or pentecostalism that the media claims he adhered to.
These latest writings from Stormfront are probably more in line with what I would expect to see from a person with a radical agenda.
How would reading this guy's manifesto help stop any future massacres?
Yes, they are the main supplier of meth to the US and changed their name to Knights Templar from La Familia.
“La Familia Michoacana, a criminal organization known for its violence and its narcotics trafficking mainly methamphetamine production is looking to re-emerge under the name of the Knights Templar. La Familia Michoacana is a partner of the Gulf Cartel and the Sinaloa Cartel and has stepped up its presence in northern Mexico in its fight against the Zetas.”
From the monitor.
Killers’ motives have been analyzed to death. I don’t see any way all this analysis has prevented future killings.
We keep trying to rationalize irrational acts. Can’t be done.
I think - at some level - the politics are irrelevant.
This guy wanted to be a star.
I’m willing to bet, at some point, he failed some sort of test. Psychological or some sort of aptitude test.
He wanted to be something - it didn’t pan out - so he’s concocted this fantasy war, where he gets to be a general.
Maybe it would cause more nutcases to try and build fertilizer bombs which then might result in a big boom much earlier than planned causing the blowing to smithereens of the nutcase? Just a hope.
Here's a factor that could help....Get The Cops there BEFORE 90 minutes!!!
The guy had a screw lose. You can’t predict that. People all over the world have crazy views and don’t go killing others based on their views. There are exceptions, such as this nut. But, what are you going to do... Put people In reeducation camps?
Are you writing a manifesto?
Don’t be an idiot.
Eh? That’s a strange thing to ask someone?
He probably filed to understand the difference (and the reason) for covert vs. overt.
You are the one sounding ridiculous. Maybe you should be clear and explain how it could be prevented in the future so we can see where you are coming from.
>>>My first thought on reading the writings found via Google was these are not the writings of a person who has become so radicalized that he will attack innocent civillians and government targets.
So in my opinion there were two possibilities, he purposly did not reveal his true ideology in public or he agreed to be set up as a fall guy for this. It is of course possible that both of these are true.<<<
Let me offer a third possibility.
The killer was influenced by the same kind of random terror attacks that he’s now seen his whole life, starting with the Lockerbie bombing in 1988, when he was five years old (I think), and ending with the July 11, 2011 killing of seven children by a suicide bomber in Pakistan (19 were injured). As he’s grown, he seen more and more people from Islamic culture, and he sees a ferocious loyalty to their culture. He’s seen how they do things. He creates this mirror world to Islam, and finally decides to act in defense of his vision of the world. He was using jihadi methods for his own purposes.
And, yes, those media claiming he’s a Christian of some sort. I have an answer right here on my middle finger.
‘failed’, not ‘filed’. My bad.
“Get The Cops there BEFORE 90 minutes!!!”
Agreed! And how about giving him a longer sentence than 21 years?
I bet he's just as much a Christian (in action, not just in label) as Obama.
Ever notice how these mass shootings tend to occur in "Unarmed Victim Zones"? Just like the Soldier Readiness Center on Ft. Hood.
Might have been a different story if he'd tried it in a Mall in Texas.
Ever notice how these mass shootings tend to occur in "Unarmed Victim Zones"? Just like the Soldier Readiness Center on Ft. Hood. In this case the only armed good guys, were an hour and half away.
Might have been a different story if he'd tried it in a Mall in Texas.
It’s also possible, that like many Nazis, he was enamored with certain aspects of Islam, like the concept of Jihad, which was not out of line with the old Pagan concept of Valhalla, in fact, Himmler himself, stated that he regretted that Islam didn’t take more of a foothold in Europe, and displaced Christianity, which he considered a cowardly religion.
Or he didn't write them, and had no idea they were written in his name. In that case, the investigation and trial would be "interesting".
>> We keep trying to rationalize irrational acts
It has nothing to do with rationalizing irrationality. It’s a matter of deriving predictive patterns from irrational information.
Would it interest you if clues were found in the manifesto linking the perp to AQ?
Smart people are combing through the manifesto, and they’re not doing it for stupid reasons.
Right on. Take him out.
Not so sure about that after just hearing that six people were killed in Grand Prairie at a skating rink.
Unfortunately, the “experts” are often quite irrational themselves.
(KT: Knights Templar, EDL: English Defense League)
KT was formed back in 2002 as a revolutionary conservative movement because we had lost hope that the democratic framework can solve Europes current problems. The EDL, on the other hand, IS a democratic movement. They STILL believe that the democratic system can solve Britains problems This is why the EDL harshly condemns any and all revolutionary conservative movements that employ terror as a tool, such as the KT. And this is why, we, the KT view the EDL as naïve fools, wasting all their energy monkey-screaming to deaf ears while they should instead have focused on means and methods that are meaningful in regards to achieving true political change, in regards to tearing down the multiculturalist regime known as Britain. Unfortunately, the only meaningful resistance at this point in time is to use military force. So instead of monkey-screaming, they should instead focus on strategically demolishing one of the many British nuclear power plants,which effectively would completely cripple the British economy, contributing to creating an optimal climate for significant political change.I don't know whether or not the killer actually wrote that. If so, then he is certainly a fanatic.
I think that's right. He doesn't have a genuine Christian belief or worldview.
He sees what the Left and Islam are doing to Europe. He vaguely understands that the society they are destroying is based on Judeo-Christian principles, and associates what he in his mind is defending with that. He speaks of his movement composed of Christians, agnostic Christians and atheists.
He doesn't understand real Christianity, as he believes that killing a large number of people will bring him "grace" from God, in the same way muslims believe killing people in a jihad grants them entrance to heaven.
He is against Islam and the Left, and claims to be for a society based loosely on Christian principles, but he doesn't know Jesus Christ or understand Christianity.
Because its foolish to ignore the factors that could help to prevent similar massacres and destruction.
The details are to societys benefit especially to those the Left is attempting to condemn via superficial association.
Besides your being obviously correct, what's interesting is that the supposed "goals" of this murderer are completely undermined and sabotaged by his own acts, and that someone who actually thought the way he supposedly thinks would never be so stupid as to believe he ould gain anything but the defamation of his own so-called "cause."
To this, then, is added that the shills are actually denying that any analysis of a mass-murderer's writings is valuable for comprhension and understanding, and go so far as to demand justification for any such considerations. This is an extraordinary slap-down of reason, even for shills.
Of course, this is mainly because the Masonic connection is so clear here that demands for nonthink are being bleated everywhere. If there's anything Masons practice the most, it's demands for nonthink. After all, if you can't practice targeted shunning, what's the point of having such an extensive secret society?
Deeper, though, is the fact that someone obviously wanted this to smear not only Christians, but also Masons. Masons virtually never openly admit their affiliation anyway - but to have it blasted out as the first globally published picture of a mass murderer? Please! This in nothing other than a meme made of slammed together concrete pilings, by someone who wanted to make the point stick no matter what, and saw the horrific bloodshed as merely an asset to gaining that goal.
Now who could be that crudely and casually murderous, I wonder - and why?
How about this: "It's a covert-meme secret-society civil-war psyop, Jim."
The attack sounded like a big killing on an island in Australia a while back. Seems to me that the object of the attack is to kill a large number of unarmed people who have very little hope of escaping and getting help because of their isolation on a tiny area. Don’t know the exact timeline, but the secondary effect of the bombing was probably to keep the police tied down. Makes me wonder if this guy (and his collaborators, if any) were getting ideas from mulitple bombings in places like Iraq as well as the OKC attack. Sick, anyway.
>> the shills are actually denying that any analysis of a mass-murderer’s writings is valuable for comprhension and understanding, and go so far as to demand justification for any such considerations.
Ironically, I share the sentiment of pointlessness in perusing the issue.
“according to the New York Times” has about as much credibility as “according to Whoopi Goldberg.”
I dealt with a few psychopaths in my youth. One thing that was common with most of them was that if you got inside their heads by provisionally accepting their major premise, every other aspect of their thought processes was perfectly rational and logical. I get the same feeling reading this stuff.
I've also run across a somewhat disturbing undercurrent of ideas offered by what is loosely called the European New Right, but that term does not really define who these people are, and I suspect that it is used in that manner to discredit all of us on the right.
In any event, the Norwegian, Anders Breivik, appears to be much in agreement with the so-called European New Right. To illustrate what I'm talking about, check out this brief review of Archeofuturism: European Visions of the Post-Catastrophic Age :
Archeofuturism, an important work in the tradition of the European New Right, is finally now available in English. Challenging many assumptions held by the Right, this book generated much debate when it was first published in French in 1998. Faye believes that the future of the Right requires a transcendence of the division between those who wish for a restoration of the traditions of the past, and those who are calling for new social and technological forms - creating a synthesis which will amplify the strengths and restrain the excesses of both: Archeofuturism. Faye also provides a critique of the New Right; an analysis of the continuing damage being done by Western liberalism, political inertia, unrestrained immigration and ethnic self-hatred; and the need to abandon past positions and dare to face the realities of the present in order to realise the ideology of the future. He prophesises a series of catastrophes between 2010 and 2020, brought about by the unsustainability of the present world order, which he asserts will offer an opportunity to rebuild the West and put Archeofuturism into practice on a grand scale.
This book is a must-read for anyone concerned with the course that the Right must chart in order to deal with the increasing crises and challenges it will face in the coming decades. Guillaume Faye was one of the principal members of the famed French New Right organisation GRECE in the 1970s and '80s. After departing in 1986 due to his disagreement with its strategy, he had a successful career on French television and radio before returning to the stage of political philosophy as a powerful alternative voice with the publication of Archeofuturism. Since then he has continued to challenge the status quo within the Right in his writings, earning him both the admiration and disdain of his colleagues.
I think that we need to better understand what's going on here, as the ideas and sentiments exposed in this and other works. Here's what is so worrisome about this trend of thinking as expressed by another reviewer:
Written for Europeans by someone who looks to Moscow for the future creation of what he calls "Eurosiberia," Faye paves the way for the liquidation of the nation state, and the emergence of a new European empire capable of repulsing the "Afro-Asian Muslim invasion." In this scheme France would be reduced, as it was under Julius Caesar, to the province of "Gaul." Faye is correct in many of his assessments of Europe's sickness, whereby Europeans no longer care about having babies and perpetuating their culture. From the look of it, however, Faye doesn't care for this himself. His nihilism is thinly disguised behind slogans manufactured for the young and the ignorant. He continually harps on the need for a "will to power."
What this is starting to look like are the foundational ideas for the rise of a new totalitarianism.
“Why would anyone waste time analyzing this guys motives and reasoning?”
The only reason I know of for doing this is to try to identify murderers of the future, try to prevent murderous plans from being carried out, and to figure out defenses against them.
I don’t think it is necessarily some sort of loving fascination with them. Certainly not in my case.
Not so simple. This critter was far beyond that stage. In his manifesto, he writes:
After I had scraped out the yellow PA crystals and the brown DDNP crystals putting them in plastic boxes and placing them in the cold cellar I went to do some shopping in the northern town. There is a festival and there was a lot of things happening, a faire, various food stands, concerts etc. Since this town has a limited variety of fast food I decided to drive down to the southern town, eat and pick up some Chinese takeaway. There was a relatively hot girl on the restaurant today checking me out. Refined individuals like myself is a rare commodity here so I notice I do get a lot of attention in both the southern and the northern town. It's the way I dress and look. There are mostly unrefined/un-cultivated people living here. I wear mostly the best pieces from my former life, which consists of very expensive brand clothing, LaCoste sweaters, piques etc. People can see from a mile away that I'm not from around here.
As for girlfriends; I do get the occasional lead, or the occasional girl making a move, especially now a day as Im fit like hell and feel great. But Im trying to avoid relationships as it would only complicate my plans and it may jeopardize my operation. And I dont feel comfortable manipulating girls any more into one night stands. I am not that person any more. I did screw two girls in Prague though, but that was mainly because it was a realistic chance that I would end up dead during the process of establishing a weapons connection. I wont make any effort to try to completely justify it though. Human males are imperfect by default as they are plagued by their biological needs. Nevertheless, screwing around outside of marriage is after all a relatively small sin compared to the huge amounts of grace I am about to generate with my martyrdom operation. And it is essential that you do what is required to keep moral and motivation at a high level; especially, just prior to operation critical moments. I have reserved 2000 Euro from my operations budget which I intend to spend on a high quality model escort girl 1 week prior to execution of the mission. I will probably arrange that just before or after I attend my final martyrs mass in Frogner Church. It will contribute to ease my mind as I imagine I will get tense and very nervous. It is easier to face death if you know you are biologically, mentally and spiritually at ease.
So, ultimately, he denied them his essence?