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ATF: Gun Ownership is a Privilege, Not a Right
The Truth About Guns ^ | 25 July, 2011 | Robert Farago

Posted on 07/26/2011 5:08:24 AM PDT by marktwain

The ATF’s website has an FAQ section. First up: “I want information on relief of federal firearm disability? (I am a felon but want to own a firearm, how do I get my privilege restored?)” According to dictionary.com, a “privilege” is “a right, immunity or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most: the privileges of the very rich.” It behooves the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to remember that all Americans have the RIGHT to bear arms. And once again, I state my firmly held conviction that ANY American who has paid his or her debt to society should have their gun rights restored. Automatically. Especially in light of the fact that . . .

Hundreds of thousands of Americans [have been] charged and convicted in recent decades under federal criminal laws—as opposed to state or local laws—as the federal justice system has dramatically expanded its authority and reach.

As federal criminal statutes have ballooned, it has become increasingly easy for Americans to end up on the wrong side of the law. Many of the new federal laws also set a lower bar for conviction than in the past: Prosecutors don’t necessarily need to show that the defendant had criminal intent.

The above’s an extract from an article in yesterday’s Wall Street Journal. The story revealed that there are now so many federal criminal statutes that . . .

Counting them is impossible. The Justice Department spent two years trying in the 1980s, but produced only an estimate: 3,000 federal criminal offenses.

The American Bar Association tried in the late 1990s, but concluded only that the number was likely much higher than 3,000. The ABA’s report said “the amount of individual citizen behavior now potentially subject to federal criminal control has increased in astonishing proportions in the last few decades.”

A Justice spokeswoman said there was no quantifiable number. Criminal statutes are sprinkled throughout some 27,000 pages of the federal code.

I’m not trying to weasel here. For sure there are hundreds of non-violent federal crimes for which any sensible person would not deprive a felon of his or her gun rights. I am equally adamant that we, as a society, should err on the side of caution and restore the gun rights of anyone who has done their time.

If we believe an individual is not safe enough to exercise their right to keep and bear arms, we should not release them back into society. If we release them, they should have their Constitutional rights restored. Would we permanently deprive a felon of their right to free speech?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: 2a; 2ndamendment; 3feloniesaday; atf; aynrandwasright; banglist; beprepared; constitution; criminalpoliticians; cw2; cwii; donutwatch; getreadyhereitcome; judicialcorruption; liberalfascism; liberalnonsense; makeusallcriminals; nannystate; policestate; preppersping; randwasright; right; righttobeararms; secondamendment; selfdefense; survivalping; tyrannicalgovernment
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The ATF use of the word "privilege" reminds me that for decades the ACLU listed the nine amendments in the Bill of Rights. No Second Amendment was listed.
1 posted on 07/26/2011 5:08:27 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

It is getting close to being hog feeding time. I have my list. Do you have yours?


2 posted on 07/26/2011 5:09:31 AM PDT by DCBryan1 (Forget the Lawyers....first kill the journalists! - Die Ritter, die sagen, nee)
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To: marktwain

> ATF: Gun Ownership is a Privilege, Not a Right

Yes, but we all know that the holy humanist sacrament of child sacrifice, aka “abortion”, is a “Right” that can be found under the “penumbra” of the 4th Amendment.


3 posted on 07/26/2011 5:17:12 AM PDT by Westbrook
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To: marktwain

oh I get it, a “privilege” ... like FOOD STAMPS!!


4 posted on 07/26/2011 5:28:47 AM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag
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To: marktwain

Unless you run a drug cartel in Mexico. Then the BATF will supply you with as many guns as you want!


5 posted on 07/26/2011 5:29:08 AM PDT by Peter from Rutland
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To: All

The writer of the article says ALL Americans have a right to firearms when they pay their debt to society...

Even those who committed violent felonies with firearms?


6 posted on 07/26/2011 5:38:29 AM PDT by Molon Labbie (Pledges, Patriots, Prayers, and Palin.)
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To: marktwain

Felons have adequate remedies for the having their rights returned to them.


7 posted on 07/26/2011 5:42:31 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (Eh ?)
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To: Molon Labbie

If we hung all violent felons the problem would be nonexistent.


8 posted on 07/26/2011 5:47:27 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: marktwain

Your proposed standard for probation and parole would keep most felons locked up until the end of their prison terms. And yes, felons on release are routinely restricted from contact with criminals or going into certain places even though freedom of association is a First Amendment right.


9 posted on 07/26/2011 5:51:05 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Scotsman will be Free

Agreed but several alphabet organizations have made it very clear they will not tolerate that, or even truth in sentencing, which is why I routinely see guys walking free who have committed double digit felonies with no convictions or enough convictions that they should be still be incarcerated well into the next millenium.

Guys and gals, you DO NOT want these sociopaths to have ANY gun rights restored...

We cannot reward those who turn violence on their fellow citizens..


10 posted on 07/26/2011 6:00:05 AM PDT by Molon Labbie (Pledges, Patriots, Prayers, and Palin.)
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To: marktwain

I think they are WRONG! Gun ownership is a RIGHT. No armed government with unarmed populace. Remember Tienanmen Square.


11 posted on 07/26/2011 6:12:37 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Molon Labbie

No question. 3 strikes laws have put a dent in career criminal ranks. Does your state have such a law?


12 posted on 07/26/2011 6:12:43 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: Molon Labbie
Even those who committed violent felonies with firearms?

that's the problem with our legal system, too many people get out without rehabilitation. if they can't be trusted with a gun, why are they allowed to be a part of society at large?
13 posted on 07/26/2011 6:13:59 AM PDT by absolootezer0 (2x divorced tattooed pierced harley hatin meghan mccain luvin' REAL beer drinkin' smoker ..what?)
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To: marktwain

From 3 to 4,500: What laws have you broken today?
July 23, 2011 by Douglas French

The U.S. Constitution mentions three federal crimes by citizens: treason, piracy and counterfeiting. Today, there are an estimated 4,500 crimes in federal statutes, write Gary Fields and John R. Emshwiller for the Wall Street Journal.

Clarence Darrow anticipated the prison nation that America is today a hundred years ago in his book Resist Not Evil. All areas of life have become part of the penal code, with an army of people operating as police, legislators, and the court system to enforce these laws...

http://blog.mises.org/17835/from-3-to-4500-what-laws-have-you-broken-today/


14 posted on 07/26/2011 6:14:07 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: Scotsman will be Free

This is a tricky one, the government is criminalizing lots of conduct........Could one reason be to brand people with felony convictions so they can’t own firearms........Maybe felons should still be allowed to bear arms......Slippery slope


15 posted on 07/26/2011 6:14:24 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: DCBryan1
Hog feeding time was ten years ago...

Hogs are dead, butchered, and diced up in the pasta salad.

16 posted on 07/26/2011 6:15:20 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (explosive bolts, ten thousand volts at a million miles an hour)
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To: Molon Labbie

If you are armed, as it is your Right to be, then we’d have fewer “felons” surviving to be incarcerated.


17 posted on 07/26/2011 6:17:56 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (explosive bolts, ten thousand volts at a million miles an hour)
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To: Scotsman will be Free

No, just enhancements for prior and persistent offenders which is almost never used. They had out Suspended Imposition of Sentence here like its candy. That is not a conviction and only encourages the thugs to make more victims.

It’s a mess here in the Lou.

If the state would give convictions like they should, the thugs would eventually do some serious Fed time for reoffending. But it doesn’t happen. Personally, I think if the states sentenced properly, there would be heck of lot less federal offenses.


18 posted on 07/26/2011 6:20:16 AM PDT by Molon Labbie (Pledges, Patriots, Prayers, and Palin.)
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To: Molon Labbie

Considering what they can obtain with or without governmental permission, the issue is: if they can’t be trusted with ‘em upon release, why are they being released?


19 posted on 07/26/2011 6:21:38 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: yldstrk; Molon Labbie

I guess it depends on the crime. Violent felons should not be rearmed as molon labbie has pointed out.


20 posted on 07/26/2011 6:21:50 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: marktwain

What about restoring Voting Rights? I seem to recall that was one of Clintoon’s initatives, aimed at creating more Democratic voters.


21 posted on 07/26/2011 6:24:34 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Scotsman will be Free

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2752818/posts

A felony isn’t what it used to be...


22 posted on 07/26/2011 6:25:00 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (explosive bolts, ten thousand volts at a million miles an hour)
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To: DCBryan1

But do you have a Solothurn ?? (evil grin)


23 posted on 07/26/2011 6:32:53 AM PDT by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border: I dare you to try and cross it. . .)
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To: yldstrk
Remember Tienanmen Square.

How about the entire friggin' 20th century?

24 posted on 07/26/2011 6:35:03 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Salgak

I think I’d rather have the Anzio Iron Works version. They even put a muzzle brake on it. $12k price tag to turn cover into mere concealment.


25 posted on 07/26/2011 6:54:55 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (explosive bolts, ten thousand volts at a million miles an hour)
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To: marktwain
Photobucket
26 posted on 07/26/2011 6:57:28 AM PDT by baddog 219
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To: absolootezer0
too many people get out without rehabilitation

The purpose of prison is not to rehabilitate, but to punish. It is the responsibility of the individual to rehabilitate themselves. If they need help with that, they can get it. All they have to do is ask.

To try to turn prisons into rehabs would be silly. You cannot rehabilitate someone unless they WANT to be rehabilitated.

27 posted on 07/26/2011 7:02:52 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Molon Labbie
The writer of the article says ALL Americans have a right to firearms when they pay their debt to society...

But that doesn't apply to G. Gordon Liddy apparently
28 posted on 07/26/2011 7:18:13 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: MEGoody

that’s my point. what’s the purpose of releasing them back into society if they haven’t rehabilitated?
if they aren’t changed, they run high risk of becomming a repeat offender and are a hazard to law abiding people.


29 posted on 07/26/2011 7:33:39 AM PDT by absolootezer0 (2x divorced tattooed pierced harley hatin meghan mccain luvin' REAL beer drinkin' smoker ..what?)
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To: Salgak
But do you have a Solothurn ?? (evil grin)

No, but I can get my hands on a Boys AT rifle ;)

30 posted on 07/26/2011 8:15:29 AM PDT by DCBryan1 (Forget the Lawyers....first kill the journalists! - Die Ritter, die sagen, nee)
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To: marktwain

The BATFE is an agency We the People established. We should abolish it.


31 posted on 07/26/2011 8:24:34 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: marktwain

This is no surprise, considering that big-government fans been saying the same thing about the right to travel on public roads for decades.


32 posted on 07/26/2011 8:55:17 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: marktwain

Here is that word, “Privilege” again, so often used by ruling class government elite.

Next up, mandatory gun insurance, yearly registration, photo ID’s, you name it.


33 posted on 07/26/2011 9:06:09 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: DCBryan1

>> “It is getting close to being hog feeding time” <<

.
But there just aren’t enough hogs to feed!


34 posted on 07/26/2011 9:14:59 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Felons have adequate remedies for the having their rights returned to them.

What are you talking about?

35 posted on 07/26/2011 9:16:59 AM PDT by houeto
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To: dragnet2; marktwain; Dead Corpse; DCBryan1; Salgak

Hmm...well, let’s see now. If it’s a “privilege”, then they can have the unbelievably fun time of trying to take that “privilege” away.

And We The People will also get a very special “privilege” - that of stopping them.

Gee. I just LOVE stories with Happy Endings, don’t y’all?

RE Boyse AT: How about a PIAT as well?


36 posted on 07/26/2011 9:20:04 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: Molon Labbie
Even those who committed violent felonies with firearms?

Yes!

37 posted on 07/26/2011 9:24:25 AM PDT by suijuris
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To: marktwain

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is an unalienable right...

Unalienable in that it is a right that is granted by an authority recognized in this country that is higher than any government instituted amoung men...

So, if God tells me to lay down my arms, I will do so, till then, I’ll cling to them and his word more than I will comply with instructions or immoral laws passed to completely remove that right from me or anyone else...


38 posted on 07/26/2011 9:41:24 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (I'm jus' sayin')
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To: marktwain
The ATF is not mentioned in the Constitution.
The right to keep and bear arms is.

Molon lave!

39 posted on 07/26/2011 9:43:58 AM PDT by TigersEye (No dark sarcasm in the press room ... Hey!, Barry!, leave them bills alone.)
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To: marktwain

And yet if I lived in Mexico, the ATF would be giving me weapons.


40 posted on 07/26/2011 9:48:35 AM PDT by Tzimisce (Never forget that the American Revolution began when the British tried to disarm the colonists.)
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To: houeto

State governors have power to issue pardons and restoration of voting, gun ownership rights.


41 posted on 07/26/2011 10:01:47 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (Eh ?)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

I forgot about that. Thanks.


42 posted on 07/26/2011 10:16:40 AM PDT by houeto
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To: Molon Labbie

No Non-incarcerated person should ever have their right to bear arms infringed upon. At one point in U.S. history someone was able to take their arms with them while awaiting trial.

Too many do-gooder emotion arguments have been made. God gave ALL MEN the right to bear arms. Unless they are being held as a danger to others (imprisoned), then their God given right has no reason to be infringed upon. As many other posters have already answered, if they’re acceptable to walk free, the State has no right to hinder their human rights.

Also, at one time, being a felon meant you had to commit a heinous act, in today’s world it can boil down to taking a video of a cop beating someone on duty, or making a negative comment aboout the beef industry. The world is upside down. If you don’t stand up for the rights of those you don’t agree with (or whome you feel it’s acceptable to take rights away from), be prepared to lose your own rights, or to die defending them alone. That’s the way liberty works, you stand united, or you die divided.


43 posted on 07/26/2011 10:17:43 AM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: ThePatriotsFlag
Didn't you get the memo, Food Stamps are a Right. It's in that Constitution thingy, next to the Killing Babies in the Womb is a Right.

It's as clear as mud.

44 posted on 07/26/2011 10:20:52 AM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Would you rather live in Obamaville or Palintown?)
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To: stevie_d_64

“The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is an unalienable right...

Unalienable in that it is a right that is granted by an authority recognized in this country that is higher than any government instituted amoung men...

So, if God tells me to lay down my arms, I will do so, till then, I’ll cling to them and his word more than I will comply with instructions or immoral laws passed to completely remove that right from me or anyone else...”

Someone who gets it. And may God grant you the long life you so richly deserve for as long as you defend that right so long as you live. There are so few true patriots left, the ones who understand that God, NOT society, grants us our rights, and that only the most extreme of circumstances warrant the abridging of a (wo)man’s God given rights. The right to bear arms is no less important than the right to life, because with the right to bear arms infringed upon, one’s right to live is seldom far behind.

Fight the good fight.


45 posted on 07/26/2011 10:32:16 AM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: marktwain

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Second Amendment trumps the ATF.


46 posted on 07/26/2011 10:32:43 AM PDT by Immerito (Reading Through the Bible in 90 Days)
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To: dragnet2

The reason that “privilege” is the word used is because THAT is the exact goal. God gave man the freedom to choose. The Communist/Fascists, seek to destroy man’s ability to choose. Hence no success and no failure, everyone gets the same thing. That being said, if you look at every action the evil doers take, including politicians, it is to give themselves (and their friends/collaborators) the rights to do anything and everything (Don’t pay taxes? Who cares, work for the treasury!), and take away the ability for anyone else to do anything but labor as slaves and grovel at their master’s feet.

There are virtually no laws created that do not work toward this end, from Obamaocare to the Food Safety Modernization Act. It’s all about hindering everyone but the elite. The sooner we all understand that, the better.


47 posted on 07/26/2011 10:40:38 AM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: JDW11235

It is the ability to protect life, in the taking of a life that is Unalienable, moral and a sign of mental maturity that is a life lesson God wants us to learn...

He shows us the door, we have to decide to open it...

We are the ones who decide to pull the trigger or not...

Do I relish in this capability??? Absolutely not, do I wake up in the morning and tell myself that this may be the day I defend myself and take a human life???

No...I am humble to this capability, I make no assumptions, nor do I beat my chest in the fact that I (and many others like me) have the ability to end ANY threat to myself, my family, friends, nieghbors or anyone else I don’t even know, and my country...


48 posted on 07/26/2011 10:46:15 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (I'm jus' sayin')
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To: stevie_d_64

I don’t want to be a stickler, but Life, Liberty, and Property were the original unalienable rights.

Since people were property when they came up with that, the compromise became Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

The first nine amendments spelled out specifically what the govenment could or could not do. The right to bear arms was specifically reserved to citizens, and on top of that was placed a further admonishment that the right shall not be infringed upon.

Today, there are no inalienable rights, and the right to bear arms was one of the more ‘alienable’ of those rights.

Due to some ‘penumbras and emanations’ abortion is a constitutional right. How that comports with ‘Life’ being inalienable, is an open question. I know that both the death penalty and abortion are defended in a similar fashion - ‘we aren’t depriving a citizen of their right to life, since the people being executed aren’t citizens (yet, or any more)’.

Fact is, if ‘Life’ is an unalienable right, you can’t defend either abortion or the death penalty. My personal hypocrisy stops at the death penalty. I’m for it. As for abotion, there’s no defending it in my opinion.

In cases of rape or incest, I err on the side of defending the liberty of the victim. I can’t imagine being forced to give birth to the spawn of my rapist. I don’t think there’s a right legal or moral answer to that question.


49 posted on 07/26/2011 10:49:36 AM PDT by RinaseaofDs (Does beheading qualify as 'breaking my back', in the Jeffersonian sense of the expression?)
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To: marktwain

“the ACLU listed the nine amendments in the Bill of Rights. No Second Amendment was listed.”

It would appear that they still don’t recognize it.

The ACLU is our nation’s guardian of liberty, working daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country.

These rights include:

Your First Amendment rights - freedom of speech, association and assembly; freedom of the press, and freedom of religion.
Your right to equal protection under the law - protection against unlawful discrimination.
Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.
Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.
The ACLU also works to extend rights to segments of our population that have traditionally been denied their rights, including people of color; women; lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgender people; prisoners; and people with disabilities.


50 posted on 07/26/2011 10:50:39 AM PDT by READINABLUESTATE (Most leftism can be traced to childhood birthday trauma)
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