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Norway gunman fired for 1.5 hours on island
The Daily Republic ^ | July, 23, 2011

Posted on 07/26/2011 6:31:23 AM PDT by Freelance Warrior

A gunman who opened fire on an island teeming with young people kept shooting for 1.5 hours before surrendering to a SWAT team, which arrived 40 minutes after they were called, police said Saturday

[...]

Survivors of the shooting spree have described hiding and fleeing into the water to escape the gunman.

[...]

On the island of Utoya, panicked teens attending a Labour Party youth wing summer camp plunged into the water or played dead to avoid the assailant in the assault. A picture sent out on Twitter showed a blurry figure in dark clothing pointing a gun into the water, with bodies all around him.

[...]

Several victims “had pretended they were dead to survive,” Berzingi said. But after shooting the victims with one gun, the gunman shot them again in the head with a shotgun, he said.

[...]

Elise said she hid behind the same rock that the killer was standing on. “I could hear his breathing from the top of the rock,” she said.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: gunman; norway; resistance; terrorism
This case raises a question in my mind - why nobody tried attacking that man? While unarmed a crowd of 100 people can run over a single shooter, paying far less deaths than happened there.

Another story in line with this

1 posted on 07/26/2011 6:31:32 AM PDT by Freelance Warrior
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To: Freelance Warrior

Their training?


2 posted on 07/26/2011 6:39:23 AM PDT by Pecos (Constitutionalist. Liberty and Honor will not die on my watch.)
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To: Freelance Warrior
The expression you are searching for is "FAILED STATE".

The source of the problem, besides the usual ennui and depression found in the higher latitudes is OIL.

Norway has turned itself into a Nordic version of Kuwait ~ a country that cannot defend itself from anybody ~ nor are half of them even in country half the time. Many of the other oil states are like that. Think of Venezuela ~ a handful of crazy people took over the country and handed it over to Fidel Castro.

This one guy might well have had a better opportunity of seizing the country through armed insurrection than we'll ever know, but if you can walk around for an hour and a half shooting Commies in the water, I think that suggests a total dissolution of the social order.

3 posted on 07/26/2011 6:41:33 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Pecos
Their training?

Whatever training. That's all about morale. That guy was literally slaughtering chicken for 1.5 hours!

4 posted on 07/26/2011 6:43:21 AM PDT by Freelance Warrior (A Russian.)
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To: Freelance Warrior

They’ve been conditioned not to resist since birth.
Individual heroics would just make you an easier target. They needed a bunch of them to execute a do-or-die charge so that a few of them would reach him. Hard to set up and coordinate while under fire. How many of us could set up a group charge against an armed target, know that most of you will be shot down before you reach him?


5 posted on 07/26/2011 6:47:43 AM PDT by Little Ray (Best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Freelance Warrior
why nobody tried attacking that man

I wasn't there, obviously, but I wondered that a bit myself.

What an emasculated society we've become.

6 posted on 07/26/2011 6:49:59 AM PDT by wbill
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To: muawiyah
a total dissolution of the social order.

My point isn't actually about this, but about the will and morale of those victims. Too good life make people sissies. I doubt Venezuelians would behave in such way.

7 posted on 07/26/2011 6:51:44 AM PDT by Freelance Warrior (A Russian.)
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To: Freelance Warrior

Of course, a great case for gun rights.


8 posted on 07/26/2011 6:52:39 AM PDT by McKayopectate
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To: Little Ray
. How many of us could set up a group charge against an armed target, know that most of you will be shot down before you reach him?

Setting up anything in this case is irrelevant. And yes, that's a question of upbringing what's natural to you - hiding or attack. You just run ahead and shout to encourage others. One hero can ignite a charge.

9 posted on 07/26/2011 6:58:38 AM PDT by Freelance Warrior (A Russian.)
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To: Freelance Warrior
why nobody tried attacking that man?

These were kids who were brought up in a society that will only give the shooter 21 years in prison for his atrocity.

They probably weren't sure they had the right to stop him!

10 posted on 07/26/2011 7:03:55 AM PDT by poindexter
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To: Freelance Warrior
"....why nobody tried attacking that man? While unarmed a crowd of 100 people can run over a single shooter...."

Because they are not Americans.
Not a knock on them, but that's not how Europeans think.
I believe if that occured on American soil:
a) Chances are that SOMEONE would have had a gun besides the shooter, and
b) If not, they would grab sticks and rocks and yell: "Let's Roll!"

11 posted on 07/26/2011 7:04:25 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: Freelance Warrior

Again they’ve been conditioned since birth, just like the folks on the planes that hit the Towers and the Pentagon. It was a miracle that Flight 93 had a few heroes aboard.


12 posted on 07/26/2011 7:15:24 AM PDT by Little Ray (Best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Freelance Warrior
A gunman who opened fire on an island teeming with young people kept shooting for 1.5 hours before surrendering to a SWAT team, which arrived 40 minutes after they were called, police said Saturday

And apparently waited until the guy ran out of ammo before coming in to arrest him. The Norwegian elites whose children were at the camp learned that the people they rely upon for protection will not risk their own lives, even for children of the political class. It must have been a sobering realization.

13 posted on 07/26/2011 7:23:40 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (When you've only heard lies your entire life, the truth sounds insane.)
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To: PapaBear3625
The Norwegian elites whose children were at the camp learned that the people they rely upon for protection will not risk their own lives

They had a chance to learn it before.

And if those children were meant would-be leaders, now one can see what kind of leaders they promise to become.

14 posted on 07/26/2011 7:36:05 AM PDT by Freelance Warrior (A Russian.)
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To: PapaBear3625

Don’t bet on it . It would require the ability to think for oneself to realize that the police will not help you if it endangers themselves.


15 posted on 07/26/2011 7:48:11 AM PDT by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: Freelance Warrior

The SWAT Team waited for boats? Don’t the police have access to helicopters?


16 posted on 07/26/2011 8:04:29 AM PDT by DonkeyBonker
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To: Freelance Warrior

The training they inherently got from being a member of that society. Everyone gets training, both formal and informal. Societal norms are just one mode.


17 posted on 07/26/2011 8:11:18 AM PDT by Pecos (Constitutionalist. Liberty and Honor will not die on my watch.)
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To: Freelance Warrior

You forget these were “progressive” socialist types. Herd mentality, waiting for their ‘great leader’ to tell them what to do. Acting as an individual is beyond them, even as their kids get gunned down.


18 posted on 07/26/2011 8:14:43 AM PDT by expat1000
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To: Little Ray
Individual heroics would just make you an easier target.

Wouldn't have stopped a lot of people I've known over the years. They would have tried. Right or wrong, they would have tried. Someone had to make the first move on flight 93...
19 posted on 07/26/2011 8:20:06 AM PDT by expat1000
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To: Freelance Warrior

Sounds like the camp was teaching these people to become a bunch of Neville Chamberlains.


20 posted on 07/26/2011 8:22:04 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Little Ray
How many of us could set up a group charge against an armed target, know that most of you will be shot down before you reach him?

Probably not many of us. However, anyone with even a hint of a survival instinct could organize a group of folks to distract him (yelling, running, to get his attention on them) and then another group to spring when he's likely to have less chance of shooting (while reloading, or watching the others, or switching between weapons, as he apparently did here). There would certainly be casualties, but they would more than likely be lower.

21 posted on 07/26/2011 8:23:26 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmitt in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: expat1000

You don’t die any harder with wounds on the front than on the back. I hope I would have followed them.
Still, depending on the distance to be covered, you’d need a certain number of people to make the distance. I’m kinda results oriented that way. If I join a suicide charge, I’d like to have have some hope it will succeed.


22 posted on 07/26/2011 8:25:10 AM PDT by Little Ray (Best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Little Ray
It was a miracle that Flight 93 had a few heroes aboard.

Actually, I honestly think that if the first two flights knew about the outcome (suicide rather than negotiation), or if Flight 93 had not known the results of the first two planes, they may not have reacted as they did. Once they knew they were going to be used as a huge suicide bomb, rather than bargaining chips, they chose to do something about it.

Prior to 9/11, the response was to sit down and wait for their demands.

23 posted on 07/26/2011 8:26:53 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmitt in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: IYAS9YAS

Any guy who can do that is more than a hero - he’s a true leader of men. I’d vote for him for president no matter what party he ran under...


24 posted on 07/26/2011 8:29:12 AM PDT by Little Ray (Best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Freelance Warrior
Here's his video, he saw himself as a Knight Templar:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89a_1311444384

25 posted on 07/26/2011 8:45:59 AM PDT by gandalftb
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To: Freelance Warrior
why nobody tried attacking that man?

At least one did.

Trond Berntsen, 51 An off-duty police officer who had volunteered as a security guard on Utoya. He pushed his young son to safety before he confronted Breivik and was gunned down. Stepbrother of the Crown Princess.

26 posted on 07/26/2011 9:00:12 AM PDT by DejaJude
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To: gandalftb
he saw himself as a Knight Templar:

He steals a lot from Freemasonry.

27 posted on 07/26/2011 9:04:15 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Little Ray
Again they’ve been conditioned since birth, just like the folks on the planes that hit the Towers and the Pentagon. It was a miracle that Flight 93 had a few heroes aboard.

Up until 9/11, if your plane was hijacked, it would have been landed at a airport, you would have been part of a standoff with authorities, but 99% of people on the plane would have lived through it.

It made sense for them to just keep their heads down.

Flight 93 was notified by various phone calls that other planes had been used as weapons to attack buildings. The people on flight 93 were aware that the rules had changed that morning and keeping your head down was going to get you killed as opposed to keeping you alive.

There were heroes on the other planes too, but they weren't aware of the rule change in time.

These kids have had the "fight" worked out of them in the "fight, flight or freeze" response. In the U.S. you likely would have seen a few "fight" responses and this may have ended minutes after it started,

28 posted on 07/26/2011 9:55:09 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: Freelance Warrior

That massacre is perfect proof of what happens to people in an unarmed society. It was like shooting fish in a barrel. I will never disarm until the government kills me.


29 posted on 07/26/2011 9:57:10 AM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: Freelance Warrior

When you raise sheep, don’t expect them to deal with their first wolf very well.


30 posted on 07/26/2011 10:07:04 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (explosive bolts, ten thousand volts at a million miles an hour)
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To: TexasRepublic

Amen...


31 posted on 07/26/2011 10:20:10 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (explosive bolts, ten thousand volts at a million miles an hour)
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To: PapaBear3625
The Norwegian elites whose children were at the camp learned that the people they rely upon for protection will not risk their own lives, even for children of the political class.

Very disturbing, to say the least. Either the Norwegian authorities assumed the shooter was Islamic and they had sympathies for his cause or they sympathized with a fellow Norwegian attacking this group.

32 posted on 07/26/2011 4:37:08 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: Little Ray

Ummm, I don’t know, Ray. We don’t even know what kind of weapons he had at this point except at least one handgun and one long gun, but he was reloading a lot - we do know that, so that would have presented opportunities.

We also don’t know if he had any kind of cover, but it sounds like not, especially as he was moving around. Therefore his back was likely exposed - a lot!

I can see most, even all the adults frozen with fear at first. Absolutely for sure I would have been, but 1.5 hours?? One guy with no backup? Not one single person made a move? Why the difference to flight 93 and a lot of flights since then, including the shoe bomber one?

I put it down to the socialist, “progressive” mindset of that group. Those people are not capable of individual action. They need a “great leader” or a committee to tell them what to do and how to do it.


33 posted on 07/26/2011 5:34:00 PM PDT by expat1000
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To: TexasRepublic
That massacre is perfect proof of what happens to people in an unarmed society

Norway allows public possesion of firearms. Breivik legally owned a Glock and a Ruger Mini-14.

34 posted on 07/27/2011 3:26:37 AM PDT by Freelance Warrior (A Russian.)
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To: Dead Corpse
When you raise sheep, don’t expect them to deal with their first wolf very well.

This phrase is worth being used as a quote!

35 posted on 07/27/2011 3:29:16 AM PDT by Freelance Warrior (A Russian.)
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