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FBI report at odds with ATF claim on weapons.
Los Angeles Times ^ | 7/26/11 | Richard A. Serrano

Posted on 07/26/2011 7:59:31 PM PDT by Nachum

Washington— The claim by senior ATF officials that none of the weapons lost in the botched Fast and Furious sting operation were used in the shooting of a Border Patrol agent is not supported by FBI ballistics tests, according to a copy of the FBI report on the shooting.Last week, spokesmen Scot Thomasson and Drew Wade of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told The Times that the FBI had assured them that neither of the two Fast and Furious weapons found at the scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian A. Terry's death

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atf; banglist; castaway; dea; doj; fastandfurious; fbi; gunrunner; gunwalker; holder; obama; odds; report
Interesting that Obama gave the current FBI director another 2 years to serve- today.
1 posted on 07/26/2011 7:59:36 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; EricTheRed_VocalMinority; ...

The list, ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list

http://www.nachumlist.com/gunrunner.htm


2 posted on 07/26/2011 8:00:29 PM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Nachum

Obama asks FBI Director Robert Mueller to serve 2 more years

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-asks-fbi-director-robert-mueller-serve-years/story?id=13593945


3 posted on 07/26/2011 8:01:45 PM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Nachum

Smuggling, killings, witness tampering, witness intimidation, arms smuggling, MS13, Zetas.

Hope and CHANGE whoooo-ey..!


4 posted on 07/26/2011 8:02:17 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: Nachum

That NEWELL guy lied at the House hearing today.

The ATFBE is apparently ran by the dregs of Law enforcement.

Or they have to much power, maybe both.


5 posted on 07/26/2011 8:08:39 PM PDT by Marty62 (Marty60)
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To: gaijin

I was just saying in another thread, that truth is as strange as fiction (re. the fictional ATF in the great fiction by FR subscriber Travis McGee). It’s a kick to read.

http://enemiesforeignanddomestic.com/index.htm


6 posted on 07/26/2011 8:09:05 PM PDT by familyop ("Plan? There ain't no plan!" --Pigkiller, "Beyond Thunderdome")
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To: Nachum
So they're going to split hairs about whether one of their "gunwalker" guns was actually the gun that fired the bullet that killed BP Agent Brian Terry? Unfreakingbelievable!!!

If you have three guys armed with two AK-47s and one pistol the two guys with rifles can sure as heck drive their opponent into the field of fire of the guy with the pistol a lot easier than three guys with one pistol.

The fact remains that two "gunwalker" guns were retrieved at the site where Agent Terry was murdered. 1,400 more "gunwalker" guns are still walking around Mexico. Or back into AZ like those two.

7 posted on 07/26/2011 8:11:10 PM PDT by TigersEye (No dark sarcasm in the press room ... Hey!, Barry!, leave them bills alone.)
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To: Nachum

The real story is not the story, but that the spokesman lied to the reporters and they are not happy about it. Note their verbiage, they are making it clear: the spokesman lied to them personally and they are declaring war.


8 posted on 07/26/2011 8:20:36 PM PDT by flying Elvis ("In...War, the errors which proceed from a spirit of benevolence are the worst" Clausewitz.)
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To: TigersEye
There's no telling how many murders have involved F&F guns that have not been recovered.
9 posted on 07/26/2011 8:25:21 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: Nachum

What a bunch of crooks. Thanks for tracking them Nachum!


10 posted on 07/26/2011 8:27:41 PM PDT by samadams2000 (Someone important make......The Call!)
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To: Nachum
"On Dec. 23, the FBI's "Report of Examination" said the fatal bullet came from a semiautomatic rifle..."

I call Bravo Sierra! on that statement! There is zero difference between a slug fired from a bolt action, a semiauto or a full auto weapon.

As long is the breech is closed and locked to contain the chamber pressure, the action on the bullet is identical in all three instances.

11 posted on 07/26/2011 8:28:26 PM PDT by TXnMA (There is no Constitutional right to NOT be offended.)
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To: Nachum

Those ATF bigshots who testified today should be charged with lying to congress.


12 posted on 07/26/2011 8:30:01 PM PDT by Terry Mross (I'll only vote for a SECOND party.)
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To: Terry Mross

Were the ATF guys put under oath?


13 posted on 07/26/2011 8:35:09 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: Nachum

He was in California and fiddled around for years on cases when corruption was rampant, nowadays it’s taken for granted all Dems are corrupt.. two more years of fiddling is right up his alley.


14 posted on 07/26/2011 8:37:28 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed .. Monthly Donor Onboard .. Obama: Epic Fail or Bust!!!)
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To: Ken H
There's no telling how many murders have involved F&F guns that have not been recovered.

The Federales claim that F&F weapons are responsible for the deaths of at least 150 law enforcement officers and military.

Add innocent civilians and guilty gangmembers and you've got the equivalent of a small town full of victims.

A thoughtful reminder:

Nobody died in Watergate.

15 posted on 07/26/2011 8:38:58 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance On Parade)
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To: Ken H

It could easily be thousands.


16 posted on 07/26/2011 8:39:14 PM PDT by TigersEye (No dark sarcasm in the press room ... Hey!, Barry!, leave them bills alone.)
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To: flying Elvis

This scandal is about to break big. AP ran the first real story on the wire today and a colleague who seems to get all his news from NPR saw it and was absolutely shocked.

Whether it’s really a wake up call to liberals about the fundamentally corrupt nature of this administration is open to question, but he was really pale when I told him about Brian Terry’s death.


17 posted on 07/26/2011 8:40:38 PM PDT by MediaMole
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To: Marty62

I thought everyone knew, ATF is staffed from the dregs of other agencies.

It’s extremely hard to FIRE any Fed. without a criminal conviction that no one want to see go public, transfers to another agency are much easier.

The wash-out’s eventually hit bottom at ATF.

Not all ATF personnel are transfers from other agencies, ATF does do some direct hiring.

But since those transferring in to ATF bring some seniority, guess who tends to end up in charge?
It is not the young college graduates with integrity and career hopes, they have no seniority, and have to start from the bottom.


18 posted on 07/26/2011 8:51:41 PM PDT by Loyal Sedition (Loyal Sedition, often described as "To the right of Attila The Hun"!)
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To: TXnMA

COULD be true, different rifles use different twist rates and bullet weights.

So they can be generally classed by rifling rate and bullet weight.
But this does not yield perfect results, there are similar guns of different types.

For example, a Ruger Mini-30 semi and an Enfield .303 may use the same twist rate despite being similar but different calibers, 7.62x39 and 303B.
The Moisin-Nagant also uses a similar .311 bullet.
After-market ammunition may come in several bullet weights, re-loaders often fashion non-standard loads that might easily be mistaken for another caliber if the barrel bore and twist rate match.

Plenty of uncertainty to hide behind if that is your goal.

Bolt action 7.62x39 guns have been made, some AK’s are 9.5-1 twist, some are 1-10 as are most of the bolt actions.


19 posted on 07/26/2011 8:59:50 PM PDT by Loyal Sedition (Loyal Sedition, often described as "To the right of Attila The Hun"!)
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To: Loyal Sedition

where did you get this crock of malarkey?


20 posted on 07/26/2011 9:07:15 PM PDT by Munz (All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.)
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To: Munz

Malarky?

Go buy a reloading manual, a bullet catalog, and a few firearm data books.
See how many guns can use the same bullet for reloading.
See which guns have the same twist barrel and bore diameter.

It will take a while to make an exhaustive comparison, I’ve been at this for over thirty years, professionally the last twenty.

Either you are just hostile, or ignorant, or did not understand my post.
I thought it was pretty clear.

An easier example for you, 30-30, 308, and 30-06 are all .308 rounds, standard bullet weights vary, but they can all use the same bullet in the lighter weights.
They may also be made with the same twist rate.
All of these calibers have been used in semi’s and bolt actions, the 30-30 is also common in lever actions.
A recovered bullet cannot be PROVEN to have come from any specific model or type of gun without additional information, such as having witnessed it being fired.


21 posted on 07/26/2011 9:24:45 PM PDT by Loyal Sedition (Loyal Sedition, often described as "To the right of Attila The Hun"!)
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To: vette6387; MetaThought; 60Gunner; XHogPilot; FreedomPoster; Josephat; Prince of Space; ...
Late Ping

FOR REFERENCE:

DAVID CODREA'S PROJECT GUNWALKER

A Journalist's guide to 'Project Gunwalker'-Part One

A Journalist's Guide to 'Project Gunwalker'-Part Two

A Journalist's Guide to 'Project Gunwalker'-Part Three

A Journalist's Guide to 'Project Gunwalker'-Part Four


22 posted on 07/26/2011 9:42:31 PM PDT by MestaMachine (Guns don't kill people, the obama administration does. (Gunwalker Ping List))
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To: TXnMA

You can call Bravo Sierra from now till the cows come home, if the projectile is matched to a semi-automatic rifle that is in evidence it did not come from a bolt action rifle.

Microscopic comparisons of bullets/cases found at crime scene are cross checked with test fired bullets/cases from any firearms recovered from the crime scene. Forensic technicians can match bullets to weapons.


23 posted on 07/26/2011 11:01:08 PM PDT by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: Loyal Sedition

Your claim that a bullet can’t be proven to come from a specific gun without it being witnessed being shot is incorrect .

Weapons recovered from crime scenes are test fired, the bullets recovered then compared under a microscope along with bullets/cartrige cases recovered from the crime scene & the deceased.

Using microscopic comparison of rifling marks on the bullets as well a marks put onto the cartrige cases by the bolt face,extractor ,ejector,magazine feed lips,chamber of barrel bullets can in fact be matched to specific weapons .


24 posted on 07/26/2011 11:14:15 PM PDT by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: Nebr FAL owner

Probably with about the same alleged certainty as fingerprints. :-(
In the end a determination is made by fallible humans.

My original point was responding to the claim that a bullet can be identified as coming from a specific type or model of gun, without having the gun to compare it to.


25 posted on 07/26/2011 11:29:02 PM PDT by Loyal Sedition (Loyal Sedition, often described as "To the right of Attila The Hun"!)
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To: Loyal Sedition

Now that is scarey.
The power this agency has with regards to everyday Americans lives should at the very least require highly trained and ethical leaders.

Not by a guy that lies to Congress.

For the younger Agents it must be disheartening to work under these conditions. The young ones probably joined to fight drugs and illegal guns.


26 posted on 07/27/2011 6:56:40 AM PDT by Marty62 (Marty60)
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To: Loyal Sedition

The FBI report is about weapons in evidence . That is weapons recovered as evidence from the crime scene .

The FBI is stating that they can link one of the rifles recovered at the scene to the bullets that killed the Border Patrol agent and BATFE is claiming that the FBI report says something entirely different.

The MSM know that the BATFE is lying to them to their face & does not like it.


27 posted on 07/27/2011 7:42:13 AM PDT by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: Loyal Sedition

>Malarky?

Go buy a reloading manual, a bullet catalog, and a few firearm data books.
See how many guns can use the same bullet for reloading.
See which guns have the same twist barrel and bore diameter.

It will take a while to make an exhaustive comparison, I’ve been at this for over thirty years, professionally the last twenty.

Either you are just hostile, or ignorant, or did not understand my post.
I thought it was pretty clear.

An easier example for you, 30-30, 308, and 30-06 are all .308 rounds, standard bullet weights vary, but they can all use the same bullet in the lighter weights.
They may also be made with the same twist rate.
All of these calibers have been used in semi’s and bolt actions, the 30-30 is also common in lever actions.
A recovered bullet cannot be PROVEN to have come from any specific model or type of gun without additional information, such as having witnessed it being fired.<

Done with your rant?

Your post that was full of malarkey had nothing to do with this.

So “Either you are just hostile, or ignorant, or did not understand my post. I thought it was pretty clear.”


28 posted on 07/27/2011 11:49:46 AM PDT by Munz (All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.)
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