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The Debt Ceiling Debacle Is Only The Beginning Of A Major Fiscal Crisis
the Business Insider ^ | 7/28/2011 | Grace Wyler

Posted on 07/28/2011 4:11:11 PM PDT by taildragger

If you think the current debt ceiling circus is bad, just wait for the real debt crisis. Peter Coy at Businessweek writes today that the debate over raising the debt limit ignores just how ailing the nation's fiscal health really is. Here are the highlights from his piece: The national debt is only a small part of U.S. liabilities. Failure to raise the debt ceiling would hurt the global financial system, but the threat is minimal compared to the real danger: Sharply rising healthcare costs combined with the aging baby-boomer generation. The U.S. is in danger of reaching a generational tipping point at which older Americans have the clout to vote themselves benefits that sap the strength of the younger generation—benefits that can never be repeated.

(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; Government
KEYWORDS: aarp; bankrupt; broke; crisis; debt; government; greed; spending

1 posted on 07/28/2011 4:11:15 PM PDT by taildragger
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To: taildragger
Please read the rest of the article.

It denotes the numbers Peter Schippers and Glen Beck has noted, i.e. all Liabilities are in the 211 Trillion Dollar Range.

I am not sure we can get out of this....

2 posted on 07/28/2011 4:13:43 PM PDT by taildragger (( Palin / Mulally 2012 ))
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To: taildragger

3 posted on 07/28/2011 4:14:18 PM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: taildragger

Pretty shocking: “Brother Can You Spare a TRILLION..?”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtVbUmcQSuk


4 posted on 07/28/2011 4:15:22 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: taildragger
I am not sure we can get out of this....

We can but it ain't gonna be pretty or easy. That's why so many of us have been preparing to take care of ourselves and our families.
5 posted on 07/28/2011 4:16:03 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: taildragger

At some point you simply walk away.

The country just say NO; the country breaks apart and dissolves itself, the country just rewrites its charters and erases its debts.

Thats what is going to happen, not just here but world wide.


6 posted on 07/28/2011 4:16:55 PM PDT by Adder (Say NO to the O in 2 oh 12)
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To: gaijin

The video says if we halted ALL spending, and made daily payments of $100 million per day, we’d need 400 years to pay off the debt now.

By 2046 EVERY dime collected would have to be spent on ONLY interest payments; no SS, no defense, no medical, etc. —NOTHING.


7 posted on 07/28/2011 4:17:53 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: Adder
The country just say NO; the country breaks apart and dissolves itself, the country just rewrites its charters and erases its debts.

Or do we have the Old Testament / Jewish concept exercised, i.e. the Jubilee and forgiveness of all debts? With "forces" working against Israel, I can't see a concept like this taking hold in certain quarters....

8 posted on 07/28/2011 4:21:14 PM PDT by taildragger (( Palin / Mulally 2012 ))
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To: taildragger

Yeah, we can. But it requires cutting government deeply. And it requires privatizing and phasing out social security and medicare. And, obviously, repealing ObamaCare!

We need to do a constitutional audit of the federal government. All federal departments, agencies, programs, commissions, etc, that are not explicitly enumerated and authorized by the constitution as valid functions of the federal government need to be abolished and their functions, if truly needed, returned to the states and the people. The federal government needs to get its nose out of the people’s business. Literally! And all remaining constitutionally authorized departments need to be stripped to the bare bone. No pork! No fat!! Cut the taxes appropriately. Get our economy booming and put our people back to work!!


9 posted on 07/28/2011 4:26:53 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is brewing!! Impeach the corrupt Marxist bastard!!)
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To: taildragger

I’ve wondered if the Obama/socialist plan all along was to force the dollar into oblivion and begin issuing a new currency with a much tighter government control, a prelude to the end times prophecy that people could not buy or sell without the “mark of the beast”. The technology is already there to make this happen. All they need is someone evil enough and powerful enough to force us into a global currency which they will be able to control.


10 posted on 07/28/2011 4:28:22 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Obama: The Dr. Kevorkian of the American economy.)
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To: gaijin

The debt is not going to be paid.


11 posted on 07/28/2011 4:29:14 PM PDT by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: Jim Robinson
Well said Jim...I have been through dowsizings in the private sector and they live by the accounting equation where as DC runs on new math. I f you or I did what Fedzilla does with a business, we would be wearing Chrome Braclets like Bernie Maddoff.

Look @ my tag line, Mulally has done this fat cutting @ Ford, Man would I love o see Sarah pick him. Dem's that know business would reach for the Kaopecate if she did, he knows how to get a team working and get-r-done !

12 posted on 07/28/2011 4:32:16 PM PDT by taildragger (( Palin / Mulally 2012 ))
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To: Jim Robinson
Yeah, we can. But it requires cutting government deeply. And it requires privatizing and phasing out social security and medicare. And, obviously, repealing ObamaCare!

That's why I support starting with cutting a whole slew of job killing federal agencies first and combine it with making sure things like highway funds go into interstate highways and bridges. The money saved can go toward paying off the social security owed while privatizing it for those entering the workforce.
13 posted on 07/28/2011 4:34:12 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: cripplecreek
I am not sure we can get out of this....
I admire your optimism (meaning what's coming down the pike is going to be infinitely worse than merely not getting out of this.)
14 posted on 07/28/2011 4:46:19 PM PDT by lbryce (BHO:Satan's Evil Twin)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks taildragger.
Sharply rising healthcare costs combined with the aging baby-boomer generation. The U.S. is in danger of reaching a generational tipping point at which older Americans have the clout to vote themselves benefits that sap the strength of the younger generation -- benefits that can never be repeated.
Hey, Zero's transformation of Medicare into official euthanasia will take care of this.


15 posted on 07/28/2011 5:16:41 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: gaijin
The video says if we halted ALL spending, and made daily payments of $100 million per day, we’d need 400 years to pay off the debt now.
By 2046 EVERY dime collected would have to be spent on ONLY interest payments; no SS, no defense, no medical, etc. —NOTHING.

There comes a point where everyone is forced to look at the uncompromising despotism of the physical world and basic arithmetic, without feigning ignorance or smoke and mirrors.

I have been meaning to post the following for quite a few years now.

The following was written in the late 70s, and published in 1980, 31 years ago. More than a generation now.
See if any of it sounds familiar today, only worse than then. Multiply everything by 7 and if you can stay away from the vodka, you are a better man than I am.

One chink in the armor of any democracy is that, when the Plebs discover that they can vote themselves Bread & Circuses, they usually do . . . right up to the day there is neither bread nor circuses. At that point they often start lynching the senators, congressmen, bankers, tax collectors, Jews, grocers, foreigners, any minority-take your choice. For they know that they [themselves] didn’t do it. The citizen is sovereign until it comes to accepting blame for his sovereign acts then he demands a scapegoat.

...

Social Security taxes go into the general fund and are spent. If Social Security were in fact insurance (the basis on which the gimmick was sold to us by FDR’s “New Deal”), the receipts would be segregated and invested and not shown as income . . . OR a competent insurance actuary with staff would calculate the commitment and it would show in the National Public Debt.
The fact that a debt is amortized over the years doesn’t stop it from being a debt. It was an amortized mortgage that got me into this racket. The prospect of years and years of future monthly payments spoiled my sleep.

The only way the Government can go on paying Social “Security” to my generation is by taxing you young people more and more heavily. . . and each year there are more and more old people and fewer and fewer young people. It won’t help to run the printing presses faster; that causes food to rise in price, rents to go up, etc. - and people over 65 start putting pressure on Congress... and there’s an election coming up. (There’s always an election coming up.)

I use the term “Federal Public Debt” because what is usually termed the “Public Debt” is by no means our total public debt. There are also state, county, city, and special-district debts. It is difficult to get accurate figures on these public debts but the total appears to be larger than the Federal Public Debt. I can’t make even a wild guess at the Social Security commitment but our total public promises-to-pay have to exceed two trillion dollars.

How much is a trillion? Well, it means that a baby born today owes at least $4,347.83 to the Federal Government alone before his eyes open. (No wonder he yells). It means that the Zero Population Growth family (who was going to save us all-remember?) of father, mother, and 2.1 children owes $17,826 in addition to private debts (mortgage, automobile, college for 2.1 children).
Of course papa won’t pay it off; that debt will grow larger. But it will cost him $2000 a year (and rising) just to “service” his pro-rata; any taxes for which he getsanything at all-even more laws-is on top of that.

A trillion seconds is 31,688 years, 9 months, 5 days, 8 hours, 6 minutes, and 42 seconds - long enough for the precession of the equinoxes to make Vega the Pole Star, swing back again to Polaris, and go on past to Alpha Cephei. Or counting the other way it would take us to 29,708 B.C.. . . or more than 25 thousand years before Creation by Bishop Usher’s chronology for creationism.
I don’t understand a trillion dollars any better than I do a trillion seconds. I simply know that we had better stop spending money we don’t have if we want to avoid that Man on Horseback.

But I don’t think we will stop “deficit financing,” the euphemism that sounds so much better than “kiting checks.” You may have noticed that 1970 figure for public employees (not my extrapolation for 1980, but the official 1970 figures straight from theUnited States Bureau of the Census).
That figure does not include the Armed Forces. It does not include some special categories. It is easier to learn the number of slaves imported in 1769 (6,736) than it is to find out exactly how many people are on public payrolls in this country. And it is not simply difficult but impossible to determine how many people receive Federal checks for which they perform no services. (Or food stamps. Are food stamps money?) But one thing is certain: the number of people eligible to vote who do receive money from some unit of government (aid to dependent children, Supreme Court justices, not growing wheat, removing garbage, governors of states, whoever) exceeds the number eligible to vote but receiving no pay or subsidy of any sort from any unit of government.

Have you read the Federal Register lately? Have you ever read the Federal Register? Under powers delegated by Congress certain appointed officials can publish a new regulation in the Federal Register and, if Congress does not stop it, after a prescribed waiting time, that regulation has the force of law-it is law, [usually forever,] to you and to me, although a lawyer sees nuances. I have vastly oversimplified this description, but my only purpose is to point out that “administrative law” reaches into every corner of our lives, and is the major factor in the enormous and strangling invasion of the Federal Government into our private affairs.
I can’t see anything in the Constitution that permits the Congress to delegate its power to pass laws.. . but the Supreme Court says it’s okay and that makes my opinion worthless.

I’m stopping. There are endless other gloomy things to discuss-the oil shortage, the power shortage (not the same thing), pollution, population pressure, a projected change in climate that can and probably will turn the problems of population and food into sudden and extreme crisis, crime in the streets and bankrupt cities, our incredible plunge from the most respected nation on Earth to the most despised (but we are nonetheless expected to pick up the tab). Bill Gresham was right but he told only half of it: you not only don’t get rich peddling gloom; it isn’t any fun.

So now come with me- “OVER THE RAINBOW-“

Over The Rainbow is a section of the Chapter, The Happy Days Ahead from the Robert Heinlein book, Expanded Universe, which discusses, among other things, predictions made in 1950 and revisited in 1980. Heinlein got a lot wrong, but a few, like the excerpt in this thread, was (is) spot on.

16 posted on 07/28/2011 5:17:02 PM PDT by Publius6961 (My world was lovely, until it was taken over by parasites.)
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To: Adder
The country just say NO; the country breaks apart and dissolves itself, the country just rewrites its charters and erases its debts.

Historically, what follows that immediately, is that the ill-served citizens erase the elected incompetents involved, both current and retired. They have nowhere to hide, the record is there and complete.

I trust that there are enough lamp posts.

17 posted on 07/28/2011 5:28:17 PM PDT by Publius6961 (My world was lovely, until it was taken over by parasites.)
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18 posted on 07/28/2011 5:38:59 PM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: Publius6961

$115 trillion visualized: the amount of our unfunded liabilities (Medicare, Social Security, etc)

http://www.wtfnoway.com/images/wtfnoway-one_hundred_fifteen_trillion_dollars-115,000,000,000,000_USD.jpg


19 posted on 07/28/2011 5:52:15 PM PDT by Deo volente (God willing, America will survive this Obamination.)
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To: Jim Robinson
Yeah, we can. But it requires cutting government deeply. And it requires privatizing and phasing out social security and medicare. And, obviously, repealing ObamaCare!

With all respect, did you say that with a straight face??

If so, you live in a different world than I do. I know few people that understand the problems and fewer that are willing to pay the prices. Those that do are 'digging in & stocking up'!

You are correct, but the voters don't understand.

20 posted on 07/28/2011 6:13:04 PM PDT by CharlyFord (t)
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To: CharlyFord

Damned rights I said it with a straight face. And pretty soon the public is going to have to face the reality too. We’re broke! Headed for a major depression. The big spending socialists, progressives and RINOS must be stopped before the country goes under!


21 posted on 07/28/2011 6:21:06 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is brewing!! Impeach the corrupt Marxist bastard!!)
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To: taildragger
It is quite simple. It will not happen.

Wishes are not reality. The Boomers will not have a pleasant end.

22 posted on 07/28/2011 6:29:15 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Jim Robinson
We agree on where the Country is headed and what's causing the problem. But, I don't see a voting population that is capable of electing the leadership that's needed.

The last time we got in trouble like this, the 1930s, the Country elected a socialist, FDR. The Country was saved by FDR having to turn to private industry to build the war materials for WWII. The voters didn't save us. War did.

Why can we expect voters to do a better job this time?

23 posted on 07/28/2011 7:01:13 PM PDT by CharlyFord (t)
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To: taildragger

“all Liabilities are in the 211 Trillion Dollar Range.’

And what are the assets range?


24 posted on 07/28/2011 7:53:10 PM PDT by Rennes Templar
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To: taildragger

If you ask me we reached a generational tipping point about 20 years ago. Older Americans have been financially screwing over younger Americans for decades by receiving far more in social security and medicare benefits than they ever paid into the system, even when adjusting for inflation and a return on investment. There will have to be reductions in benefits for affluent seniors, or this country will go bankrupt and we’ll see serious inflation as the government debases the dollar to tax everyone heavily through inflation. When will Pelosi and Reid start to tell the truth about entitlement spending?...probably never.


25 posted on 07/28/2011 9:30:29 PM PDT by socialism_stinX (We need a decline of statism and a revival of individualism and personal responsibility in America.)
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To: taildragger

“I am not sure we can get out of this.... “

There will be a resolution, though you won’t like it.

See what’s gonna happen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYKAbRK_wKA

Just sayin’....


26 posted on 07/28/2011 10:22:21 PM PDT by Grumplestiltskin (I may look new, but it's only deja vu!)
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To: Publius6961

excellent excerpt. Thank you


27 posted on 07/29/2011 12:53:03 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: CharlyFord
we need to cut, cut a lot, but how do we handle people who are so used to feeding at the trough? I believe SS, Medicare need to be eliminated completely. Obamacare should be killed off immediately. Cut 60% of departments, kill off the EPA, etc.

But how to handle the people who are used to getting their bread and circuses? There will be war... but there will be war when we default as well.... dang it, there is no way to avoid that.

28 posted on 07/29/2011 12:59:31 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Grumplestiltskin

Nice link. But those folks aren’t chinese, they look Thai :)


29 posted on 07/29/2011 1:02:39 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: taildragger
To heck with the "balanced budget amendment" - I want the Thomas Jefferson Amendment
30 posted on 07/29/2011 1:05:06 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (For decades they've kicked the can down the road. Sorry, but there's no more road.)
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