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Who’s to Blame for Flight 447?
Daily Beast ^ | July 29, 2011 | Clive Irving

Posted on 07/30/2011 5:24:58 PM PDT by lbryce

The pilots did it. Put bluntly, that seems to be what the latest report by French air crash investigators on the loss of Air France flight 447 two years ago is saying. More precisely, the pilots had not been trained to deal with the sudden emergency they faced and lost control.

What the investigating body, France’s Bureau of Investigation and Analysis (BEA), are not saying, at least not overtly, is that the crash should never have happened–and, but for a technical failure, would not have.

Air crash investigation reports always deliver a torrent of technical jargon that has been through many drafts. The goal is to be sensitive toward those who can end up getting blamed, but then the language becomes impersonal. So let’s not forget the victims. And what they went through.

This is the stark reality of the end of Flight 447:

Eleven minutes after 2 a.m. on June 1, 2009, the 216 passengers bound for Paris from Rio de Janeiro were plunging toward the Atlantic Ocean at a rate of 10,000 feet a minute. But for the restraint of seat belts, they would have been tossed around the cabin like loose luggage.

They would have been fully aware of their plight. The airplane, an Airbus A330, had lost its ability to fly. During the fall its nose reared up far more steeply than in a takeoff, and it stayed there. It was in an aerodynamic stall. As it fell, the Airbus turned right, away from its heading to Europe and, three minutes after the descent began, it was heading back toward Brazil. With its nose still pointed sharply up, its wings dipped slightly left and at a forward speed of just over 120mph, the airplane hit the Atlantic.

(Excerpt) Read more at thedailybeast.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: airbus; flight447
The most violent force was the rate of vertical descent—so violent that the cargo hold below the cabin crumpled and galleys in the cabin were crushed from the bottom up upon impact. The vertical stabilizer sheered off and floated away into the night, becoming a lone beacon for those sent to search for the wreckage......

There had never been a crash like this: an airplane representing state of the art flight deck automation, an airline with a long and esteemed record, flying a route that should have been routine disappeared without explanation and without trace. Then, spectacularly, this spring the airplane’s black boxes and cockpit voice recorder were recovered on a sandy plateau 13,000 feet beneath the ocean’s surface, after two previously aborted searches.

Legend has it that Boeing is built for pilots, while Airbus is built for those that want to be pilots. In Boeing jets, the pilot can override onboard computers and their built-in soft limits should they choose to do so. Boeing planes are designed to put the ultimate control of the aircraft into the hands of the pilot while Airbus prefers to leave control to software, automation.

What is not being said about where the blame lies is the hubris in which Airbus places its trust in automation, software over that of human/pilot intervention.

1 posted on 07/30/2011 5:25:06 PM PDT by lbryce
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To: lbryce

Whenever I book a trip I always make sure I’m on a Boeing


2 posted on 07/30/2011 5:27:56 PM PDT by tsowellfan ( Obamanomic Wreckovery - How's That Change Working For Ya?)
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To: lbryce

This is so weird; those people would have been safer that day with a Cessna 152 pilot at the controls, or even an RC model pilot.


3 posted on 07/30/2011 5:28:04 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: tsowellfan
If it's not Boeing, you shouldn't be going.
4 posted on 07/30/2011 5:29:02 PM PDT by lbryce (BHO:Satan's Evil Twin)
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To: lbryce
What is not being said about where the blame lies is the hubris in which Airbus places its trust in automation, software over that of human/pilot intervention

Kinda how I feel about cars these days. Less safety made us better drivers.
5 posted on 07/30/2011 5:39:18 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: tsowellfan

If it ain’t Boeing I ain’t going.


6 posted on 07/30/2011 5:39:24 PM PDT by SkyDancer (You know, they invented wheelbarrows to teach government employees how to walk on their hind legs.)
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To: lbryce

Very interesting piece. However, when I clicked the dailybeast link, my Kaspersky anti-virus software said I was dowloading a Trojan virus... (not joking). Interesting column though.


7 posted on 07/30/2011 5:52:53 PM PDT by publius321
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To: lbryce

If the bus hit tail first there is no way in hell that the tailplane would have been as intact as the pictures showed of it floating around in the atlantic.Water or not you are still hitting concrete at that speed.


8 posted on 07/30/2011 5:58:12 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: HANG THE EXPENSE

Yeah! It’s a damn conspiracy!


9 posted on 07/30/2011 6:06:33 PM PDT by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: lbryce

BSOD


10 posted on 07/30/2011 6:13:15 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution!)
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To: lbryce

Fate Is The Hunter by Ernest K. Gann

A good read. Book not movie.

http://rwebs.net/avhistory/fate.htm


11 posted on 07/30/2011 6:24:27 PM PDT by DUMBGRUNT (The best is the enemy of the good!)
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To: HANG THE EXPENSE
...there is no way in hell that the tailplane would have been as intact as the pictures showed of it floating around in the atlantic.

The article stated that the descent was so rapid and violent that the cargo hold was crushed and the vertical fin sheared away before impact.

Sounds believable to me - airbus planes seem to be notorious for shedding rudders.

12 posted on 07/30/2011 6:40:18 PM PDT by ZOOKER ( Exploring the fine line between cynicism and outright depression)
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To: gaijin

” This is so weird; those people would have been safer that day with a Cessna 152 pilot at the controls, or even an RC model pilot. “

Roger that! I fly both!!


13 posted on 07/30/2011 6:51:50 PM PDT by mongo141
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To: ZOOKER

I contend that the verticle seperating was the cause of the crash just like the bird right after 9/11.Also an airbust


14 posted on 07/30/2011 7:10:08 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: saganite

When you have the french gubmint footing the bill for most of, if not all of, airbust then a conspiracey is not too far fetched.


15 posted on 07/30/2011 7:15:11 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: HANG THE EXPENSE
Are you suggesting that, rather than admit to a structural defect that would ground hundreds of aircraft and make the company liable for billions in repairs and compensation to victims families, that they would blame it all on a dead guy?

Have you no faith in our European brethren?

16 posted on 07/30/2011 7:55:20 PM PDT by ZOOKER ( Exploring the fine line between cynicism and outright depression)
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To: ZOOKER

I guess I’m just a hard case that way.I think it comes with age oh wait a minute,I have always been this way.


17 posted on 07/30/2011 8:00:29 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: lbryce

Previous reports stated that they were in an area of very strong thunderstorm activity at the time which can cause very violent turbulence. If they had that to contend with, as well as loss of air speed indication, they had their hands full. Also there was a report that other instruments were erratic at failing at times. I can imagine a pilot becoming disoriented if instrument visuals were lost and turbulence was tossing the plane about. I was trained for many hours to nose down and regain flying speed upon entering a stall, but was never trained to do the same in a violent thunderstorm without airspeed indication, so I can’t be sure I would react correctly in that situation. I also was trained to extremely slow flight on the very edge of a stall at high altitude to set in my mind what it feels like. If you are about to stall you have to react almost instantly and you better react the right way. Sadly, it appears that panic took over and training went out the window in this case


18 posted on 07/30/2011 8:15:23 PM PDT by lwoodham
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To: SkyDancer; tsowellfan; saganite
If it ain’t Boeing I ain’t going?

Reading the article don't really says what caused the crash. It's all speculation. If it ain’t Boeing I ain’t going? Yeah? I had worked with an airline flying international including scheduled flights to the land of Chicoms, equipments from B747-400 & 200, A300b4-600, A320s, B737s to Bae145s, not to mention our domstic turboprop fleets. All airline transport pilots employed by airlines with US-FAA certification undergo rigid periodical recurrent qualification training from simulator to checkride proficiency tests flying empty airplane by equipment they fly loaded with ballasts dummy load how pilots handles emergencies. We had a Airbus famous veteran oh captain my captain we always called "sir" who failed on simulator had to humbly fly co-pilot until he passed required proficient tests. Saying AF447 pilots didn't know how to handle emergencies is pure baloney.

19 posted on 07/30/2011 11:13:57 PM PDT by hamboy
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To: hamboy

It’s not the pilots I worry about it’s the plane. I’ll fly Boeing, thank you.


20 posted on 07/31/2011 1:24:17 AM PDT by tsowellfan ( Obamanomic Wreckovery - How's That Change Working For Ya?)
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To: lbryce

One could see this accident as a picture of the greater accident that the New World Order is causing across the whole globe. Like the pilots of Flight 447, they are operating under the illusion that they know what they’re doing; whereas in fact, they don’t.


21 posted on 07/31/2011 5:42:39 AM PDT by RoadTest (Organized religion is no substitute for the relationship the living God wants with you.)
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To: hamboy
"Saying AF447 pilots didn't know how to handle emergencies is pure baloney. "

Well apparently they didn't. That's why they crashed. The CVR recorded nothing but confusion on the flight deck. If your plane is going down and the nose is pointed up and you're under full power, what is that called? That plane hit the water slightly tail down, almost flat.

22 posted on 07/31/2011 8:16:09 AM PDT by SkyDancer (You know, they invented wheelbarrows to teach government employees how to walk on their hind legs.)
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To: lbryce

I blame the pilots. The airplane was flyable, there were plenty of instruments to tell them they were stalled, and they took every wrong action.


23 posted on 07/31/2011 8:40:48 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: hamboy

“Saying AF447 pilots didn’t know how to handle emergencies is pure baloney.”

They crashed a flyable airplane. Sorry, but your statement doesn’t match reality.


24 posted on 07/31/2011 8:43:39 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: tsowellfan
It’s not the pilots I worry about it’s the plane. I’ll fly Boeing, thank you.

You didn't ever look at the airline disaster statistics though?  Click http://www.airdisaster.com/statistics/ or http://www.airfleets.net/crash/stat_plane.htm which aircraft the most event?  Boeing 737 has the most accident at 138 with 4,274 fatalities versus 6,819 built todate.  The highest accident Airbus is A300 (250 to 300 seating capacity) have 27 with 1,423 casualties versus 561 built.  Boeing 747 accidents is 43 with 3,698 fatalities versus 1,418 built.

Now you can draw your conclusion which manufacturer makes the better airplane... :-)


25 posted on 07/31/2011 9:22:29 AM PDT by hamboy
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To: hamboy
You didn't ever look at the airline disaster statistics though?

Yeah, and more people died in the 100 year old apartment building where my uncle lives than in the building next door that was just built last month.

26 posted on 07/31/2011 11:07:02 AM PDT by tsowellfan ( Obamanomic Wreckovery - How's That Change Working For Ya?)
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To: SkyDancer
. . .plane is going down and the nose is pointed up and you're under full power, what is that called? That plane hit the water slightly tail down, almost flat.

Did you read other related article in the net?

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/153621/20110528/air-france-flight-447-black-box-data-jet-trajectory-report.htm

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/05/air-france-447-what-the-black-box-tells-us/239598/

27 posted on 07/31/2011 3:50:03 PM PDT by hamboy
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To: hamboy

No, what I was referring to was the flight deck crew not realizing they were in a stall. I know what a stall is, was just making a statement about the crew knowledge is all.

Regards,


28 posted on 07/31/2011 3:57:24 PM PDT by SkyDancer (You know, they invented wheelbarrows to teach government employees how to walk on their hind legs.)
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To: SkyDancer
You're still blaming the dead pilots.  Airbus 330 is fly-by-wire.  Pilots rely on the computer.  The article [click here] says "autopilot disengaged after speed readings became unreliable, forcing the two co-pilots in the cockpit to take over, just as the jet traversed a storm, bla-bla-blah."

29 posted on 08/01/2011 12:05:32 AM PDT by hamboy
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To: hamboy

Nope - I’m just reiterating what’s been going around. I’m waiting for the official determination report.


30 posted on 08/01/2011 7:20:59 AM PDT by SkyDancer (You know, they invented wheelbarrows to teach government employees how to walk on their hind legs.)
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To: tsowellfan
You said, "It’s not the pilots I worry about it’s the plane. I’ll fly Boeing," right?

Lookie here...  Here's another Boeing 737 while we're threading here!

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/photos/caribbean-airlines-jet-crash-1312055791-slideshow/caribbean-airlines-jet-seen-broken-cheddi-jagan-international-photo-192025857.html



31 posted on 08/01/2011 11:27:24 AM PDT by hamboy
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To: hamboy
Lookie here... Here's another Boeing 737 while we're threading here!

Yes, and every passenger walked away. Amazing!

32 posted on 08/01/2011 6:20:46 PM PDT by tsowellfan ( Obamanomic Wreckovery - How's That Change Working For Ya?)
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To: SkyDancer
I’m waiting for the official determination report.

I guess they'll probably put blame the onboard computer... 

Read this article [click here]...

33 posted on 08/01/2011 9:41:48 PM PDT by hamboy
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To: hamboy

I receive the NTSB Reporter and they have pretty good reporting. Airbus seems too reliant on computers. True, sophisticated aircraft these days need them. One thing a computer can’t do is make a sandwich. One thing it can do is follow instructions. It received inputs and told the crew what it saw.


34 posted on 08/01/2011 9:57:31 PM PDT by SkyDancer (You know, they invented wheelbarrows to teach government employees how to walk on their hind legs.)
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To: SkyDancer

Since pilots becoming more reliant on onboard computers, I wonder if onboard computer event logs also being recorded in the blackbox... Event log file(s) will show everything the onboard computer executed...


35 posted on 08/03/2011 5:07:09 AM PDT by hamboy
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