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Congress to decide whether Super Congress could impose gun control
http://gunowners.org ^ | Monday, 01 August 2011 12:07 | GOA

Posted on 08/02/2011 10:10:37 AM PDT by ronnyquest

Gun owner registration … bans on semi-automatic firearms … adoption of a UN gun control treaty -- all of these issues could very well be decided over the next 24 hours.

Both houses of Congress will be voting on a debt ceiling bill that establishes a legislative committee with TREMENDOUS powers. Fox News is calling this committee a SUPER CONGRESS, because its legislative proposals (which could include gun control provisions) CANNOT be filibustered or amended in the Senate or House.

To understand what a huge deal this is, consider that House Speaker John Boehner is able to keep a mountain of gun control bills from coming to the floor of the House. That’s the power of the Speaker.

And in the Senate, we have been able to kill much of the gun control agenda by filibustering legislation (that is, requiring the Majority Leader to get a supermajority or 60 votes in order to pass gun control).

The most recent example of this occurred earlier this year when we defeated a radical, anti-gun judicial nomination (Goodwin Liu) using the filibuster. The filibuster has been our saving grace in the Senate, but that could be tossed within the next 24 hours.

Regarding the debt ceiling compromise, here’s what one legislative analyst (inside a Republican office on Capitol Hill) had to say:

Right now, we have limited protection from the schemes of the left – even if they have some Republican support, we have a speaker who wouldn’t bring horrible bills to the floor, and we have the Senate filibuster.

Both of these are rendered moot by the Super committee. There is NO Senate filibuster on the product they report. The Speaker CANNOT stop a vote in the House….

[Hence], 22 liberal Republicans can join the Congressional Democrats and the President in: Closing the gun show “loophole,” banning semi-automatic weapons, creating a national handgun registration, or ordering state gun laws moot.

A super highway for gun control legislation? This is incredibly unconstitutional! We don’t elect a Congress, which can then turn around and elect a SUPER committee. We need to make sure this never lands on the President’s desk.

ACTION: Please email and call your Representative and Senators. Urge them to vote NO on establishing this SUPER CONGRESS with unconstitutional powers.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; congress; constitution; cw2; gungrabbers; guns; rkba; supercongress; thisisit
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The time is fast approaching, patriots, when you must decide whether to stand and deliver or cower and wither under the oppressive fascism of the US government. When is enough finally enough? Will you let the feds cross yet another line in the sand?
1 posted on 08/02/2011 10:10:41 AM PDT by ronnyquest
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To: ronnyquest

You want them,come and get them.


2 posted on 08/02/2011 10:12:38 AM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: ronnyquest

3 posted on 08/02/2011 10:13:56 AM PDT by TSgt (When in the Course of human events...)
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To: Farmer Dean

When I know I have taken out at least 10 of these a$$holes to me I will rest easy in my grave .


4 posted on 08/02/2011 10:15:58 AM PDT by Renegade
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To: ronnyquest
adoption of a UN gun control treaty


5 posted on 08/02/2011 10:18:10 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: ronnyquest

Drawn too many lines in the sand already.

Let’s get ready to rumble!


6 posted on 08/02/2011 10:19:47 AM PDT by panaxanax (0bama >>WORST PRESIDENT EVER.)
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To: ronnyquest

Didn’t know the super congress had this power.

Though I am not surprised. The plans were for a North American Union a decade agao, and this will speed things along.


7 posted on 08/02/2011 10:20:47 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: ronnyquest
I've got news for these a**hats, the so called "Super Congress" can't do anything unless the rest of the legislature(both houses)votes on it. They can suggest things, just as any other member of the legislature can do but the deciding factor are the votes of the whole legislature.

This BS of acting as if this stupid committee has some degree of power more than the whole body is just that: BS. As for calling them the "Super Congress" I strongly object to that.

8 posted on 08/02/2011 10:21:53 AM PDT by calex59
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To: ronnyquest

This whole debt-ceiling debate was a smoke-screen. The goal the whole time was ramming through this dictatorial SuperCONgress.


9 posted on 08/02/2011 10:22:04 AM PDT by Roninf5-1
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To: ronnyquest

The military have more weapons than Kongress. Right now they are not on Kongress’ side after that deal to gut the military finances. So Kongress..try and get em’ We’ll call in the Marines.


10 posted on 08/02/2011 10:22:10 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: ronnyquest

“The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.” Thomas Jefferson


11 posted on 08/02/2011 10:22:52 AM PDT by SERE_DOC (My Rice Krispies told me to stay home & clean my weapons!)
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To: Farmer Dean

I don’t have any guns! Boating accident!


12 posted on 08/02/2011 10:24:11 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: ronnyquest

Hmmmm.
I just re-read my copy of the United States Constitution.

I see nothing in there about anything like a, “Super Congress.”

I DO, however, see something about a, “Second Amendment....”


13 posted on 08/02/2011 10:27:51 AM PDT by RandallFlagg ("I can see 2012 from my house!" Jim Thompson, 7-16-2011)
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To: ronnyquest

” adoption of a UN gun control treaty “

Go right ahead, start the next phase of this damn Civil War.

I seriously don’t believe that our country is going to survive until 2012.


14 posted on 08/02/2011 10:29:31 AM PDT by Gator113 (Palin 2012, period.....)
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To: ronnyquest
As much reason as there is to oppose this pointless debt committee, I think this story was pretty thoroughly debunked yesterday. But here we go again.

1. No the debt committee, or "super congress" if you prefer, can't unilaterally approve treaties, they still require a 2/3 majority per the constitution.

2. No the debt committee can't impose gun control, and, (there is some debate on this point), probably can't even introduce anything that is not budget related (Cantor says they can't even propose tax increase only spending cuts).

3.Even under a worst case scenario, that the committee did insert gun control into some debt bill, it would still require a majority vote in the house and senate.

4. No the Republican majority in the house are not going to throw away their political careers by voting for gun control.

5. No the Republicans won't be "held hostage" by the threat of debt triggers and forced to support gun control. The triggers don't go into effect until 2013 even if activated, giving republicans plenty of time to reverse the defense spending cuts in other must pass legislation. Cantor has already said the Republicans in the house would allow the triggers before voting for a tax increase if the debt committee included one. The triggers are essentially toothless political theater.

6. And finally, No the "super congress" is not an all powerful entity that is going to dominate congress from now on, for one thing it's mandate expires at the end of every congress and has to be renewed by the next on, because no future congress can be bound by the actions of a current one. For another, it only has a much power as the House and Senate decide it has, in fact, constitutionally the House and Senate leaders could simply ignore it with impunity, because the only recourse would be to get the courts involved and they aren't going to touch an internal congressional dispute with a ten foot pole.

15 posted on 08/02/2011 10:37:49 AM PDT by apillar
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To: ronnyquest

So THIS was the sub-rosa activity covered by flappage over the debt ceiling. In addition to being able to raise taxes (from each according to his “gifts” to each according to his “needs”), a bump up in federal power, cutting out those pesky dissenting, constitutionally aligned congresscritters.

Should be sporty!


16 posted on 08/02/2011 10:38:59 AM PDT by petro45acp (NO good endeavour survives an excess of "adult supervision" (hence the American experiment))
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To: apillar

>> I think this story was pretty thoroughly debunked yesterday <<

Oh, c’mon. Don’t be a spoil sport. Conspiracy theories are a lot of FUN!


17 posted on 08/02/2011 10:42:55 AM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: ronnyquest

Our own Politburo/Central Committee...


18 posted on 08/02/2011 10:45:40 AM PDT by Ingtar (Together we go broke (from a Pookie18 post))
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To: ronnyquest

Political leaders be advised, the people are passed the pissed off stage.


19 posted on 08/02/2011 10:47:55 AM PDT by drypowder
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To: ronnyquest

ping


20 posted on 08/02/2011 10:48:23 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Mr. Mojo

You do understand that there are plenty enough stooges in LE and our military willing to do the job. No need at all for someone from a far off land to steal your guns away.


21 posted on 08/02/2011 10:49:40 AM PDT by 556x45
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To: 556x45

I understand that perfectly. Have for decades. But thanks anyway.


22 posted on 08/02/2011 10:55:01 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: calex59
This BS of acting as if this stupid committee has some degree of power more than the whole body is just that: BS. As for calling them the "Super Congress" I strongly object to that.

Well, you can object all you want, but the bill they are about to pass says that the congress must accept or reject their 'recommendations' on how to achieve the cuts "as a whole." Do you really think that this committee - with Nancy Pelosi on it - won't add on all sorts of extraneous things that don't really have anything to do with budget cuts? After all, this bill itself is called, "TECHNICAL AMENDMENT TO EDUCATION SCIENCES REFORM ACT OF 2002." They'll tag on anything they want.

And then the Congress as a whole will have the choice of accepting everything they put in there, or gutting the Defense Department completely.

The whole point of the 'triggers' in this bill is to make it so painful to turn down the Committee "recommendations" that no one will be able to do it. Saying that this committee does not 'have some degree of power more than the whole body' is like saying that the Speaker does not 'have some degree of power' more than an average Congressman.

This committee has enormous power. It is comprised on the Dim side of ruthless statists and on the RINO side by spineless sycophants of the media.

As a sign of how bad things are going to be - in terms of the RINOS being forced to accept things that they don't want in order to keep from gutting Defense - if the triggers are tripped, the Dims win both ways!. On the one hand Defense gets cut way beyond anything rational in today's world - setting up the capitulation to other one-world statists in every confrontation to come along. On the other hand Doctors and Hospitals get stiffed on bills, setting up all sorts of horror stories on how "the poor, poor, pitiful poor" can't get medical care and so we need even more socialized medicine than Obamacare already has. You wanna bet that a year after the 'triggers' are tripped we don't have a 'public option' for medical care?

This bill is a nightmare, and the Committee has the unchecked power either to dictate terms to the rest of Congress or to gut Defense spending and pave the way for socialized medicine. They may not be a "Super Congress," but it's because they're worse than that. I think Politburo is closer.
23 posted on 08/02/2011 10:56:00 AM PDT by Phlyer
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To: ronnyquest

“You won’t need the 2nd amendment until they try to take it away from you.” Jefferson


24 posted on 08/02/2011 10:57:18 AM PDT by stockpirate (Proud member of the TEA Party Hobbits.........remember the hobbits won the day)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Then whats up w/ the blue helmet thing?


25 posted on 08/02/2011 11:00:47 AM PDT by 556x45
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To: RandallFlagg
I just re-read my copy of the United States Constitution.

And you think this is relevant . . . how? Recognizing that the Constitution has nothing in it about a "Super Congress" is about like saying there is nothing in Obamacare about "death panels." It doesn't mean they're not there, just that they're called something else.

In this case, this committee has the ability to dictate terms to the rest of Congress on anything they include in their 'recommendations,' and the only choice for anyone else in Congress is to accept it all, or suffer totally draconian cuts in defense, and enough cuts in payments to doctors and hospitals to set up a crisis that will guarantee we get a 'public option' tacked onto Obamacare.

Those choices are hard enough that there's no way that the average Congressman can vote down the Committe recommendations, which means that half a dozen people now wield enormous power. The only reason I wouldn't call them a 'Super Congress' is because I think Politburo is more accurate.

And as for the Second Amendment . . . it's clear what the Dims think of that. If the Supreme Court has allowed confiscatory rules in several states - despite the clear words of the Second Amendment - then there is little chance that they'd overrule a law that included gun control as a rider on a budget bill. And even if they did rule that part invalid, it would only be after several years had passed . . . and all of our guns had been confiscated.

It doesn't have to happen that way. I don't think that gun control is Pelosi et. al.'s highest priority at this time. But that committee has the power to do anything it wants, and I don't trust the courts to put it right.
26 posted on 08/02/2011 11:05:07 AM PDT by Phlyer
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To: 556x45

Just a response to the “UN gun control treaty” quote from article. If the U.S. gov’t lies down with the blue-helmeted transnationalist gun-grabbing pigs, well then.....


27 posted on 08/02/2011 11:06:35 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: calex59

Agreed the “Super Congress” is a label ascribing powers to these extra-empowered people THAT ARE NOT THERE.

It would be nice if this labeling caused a constitutional crisis. As it is the “commission” enabling “law” is itself unconstitutional because of the verbage of the bill.

Hennesy has the details,and Freepers need to READ THE BILL that has been handed to the country.

Instead of playing into the hands of the “super congress” conservatives should point out that “the spending continues” and that dems and obama KNEW the Bush tax cuts will expire and STILL they demanded more taxes and “revenue”.
We HAVE TO STOP THIS-— COLD.


28 posted on 08/02/2011 11:08:26 AM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: ronnyquest
I think BONER just handed over his power to a Communist Politburo. Obama will decide who sits on that committee. Elections don't matter anymore. Six appointed individuals and Obama will make the laws. The only thing in the way is voting down every damn thing that comes from that "committee".
29 posted on 08/02/2011 11:09:34 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: redgolum

Judge Napolitano stated on FOX the “Super Congress” is totally unconstitutional.

This will not matter to the crooks in Congress.

It is time that my fellow Americans who live in the States stand your ground.

It is at the point where it is now or never.

It boggles my mind how 300,000,000 Americans let a handful of crooks rule their lives.

How can so many be afraid of a handful of crooks?

There are:

100 senators
435 house of reps
1 cheeky Kenyan bastard
9 Supreme Court justices

Total: 545 crooks

Each crook is outnumbered by 550,358.7 to 1.

So where is the fear?


30 posted on 08/02/2011 11:19:25 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Hawthorn

GOA needs a new carpet in their clubhouse.


31 posted on 08/02/2011 11:23:03 AM PDT by atomic_dog
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To: Phlyer

The bottom lines is still as I have stated it. This committee really has no power above and beyond that of the legislature as a whole. The house and the Senate both have to pass the bills that come from their recommendations. The house still belongs to us and we simply need to pressure them to stay strong and to strip the onerous parts out of them before they vote.


32 posted on 08/02/2011 11:26:19 AM PDT by calex59
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To: calex59

“The bottom lines is still as I have stated it. This committee really has no power above and beyond that of the legislature as a whole.”

If I understood Judge Napolitano correctly, there are not enough folks with spines (my words) to stop this crooked unconstitutional mess from happening.

He stated this as a fact and that it will happen.


33 posted on 08/02/2011 11:40:57 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Phlyer

“It is comprised on the Dim side of ruthless statists and on the RINO side by spineless sycophants of the media.”

Have the members of this committee been announced? Please advise who the members will be. Thanks.


34 posted on 08/02/2011 12:07:07 PM PDT by mouske
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To: ronnyquest

You are so right.

I Do Not Choose to Be a Common Man

It is my right to be uncommon—if I can.

I seek opportunity—not security.

I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the state look after me.

I want to take the calculated risk; to dream and to build, to fail and to succeed.

I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. I prefer the challenges of life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia.

I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout.

I will never cower before any master nor bend to any threat.

It is my heritage to stand erect, proud and unafraid; to think and act for myself, enjoy the benefit of my creations and to face the world boldly and say, “This I have done.”

By Dean Alfange


35 posted on 08/02/2011 12:17:34 PM PDT by craigski63
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To: ronnyquest
Super Congress?

Sounds a lot like: Central Committee, as in:

Central Committee of the Communist Party of Russian Federation

Central Committee of the Communist Party of China

Central Committee of the Communist Party of Cuba

Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union

Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam

Central Committee of the Hungarian Workers' Party

Central Committee of the Party of Labor of Albania

Central Committee of the Polish United Workers' Party

Central Committee of the South African Communist Party

Central Committee of the Korean Worker's Party

36 posted on 08/02/2011 12:20:54 PM PDT by moovova (Obama rolled up his sleeves...and cut 2 strokes off his golf score.)
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To: mouske

They have not announced all the members, but they have made some early positions clear. 1) Nancy Pelosi will be on the committee, and 2) No one who voted *against* the bill will be allowed on the committee. Therefore, everyone on the Republican side who might not be a RINO is to be excluded.


37 posted on 08/02/2011 12:32:08 PM PDT by Phlyer
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To: calex59
we simply need to pressure them to stay strong and to strip the onerous parts out of them before they vote.

This is not allowed by the bill they have just approved. That's the point! They either accept the Committee's recommendations - in whole, with nothing 'stripped out' - or the triggers are applied. That's what this bill says.

And the person who would be able to undermine that and allow things to be stripped out is . . . Boehner, the principal architect of this bill. He won't allow amendments or other changes.

Things are not "as [you] have stated it," because of the provision in this bill that the Committee's recommendations cannot be changed. That - in conjunction with the triggers - is where their power comes from.

Ultimately, they have no power above and beyond that of the legislature as a whole - but the legislature as a whole has granted to this Committee an unprecedented and unrecoverable (on this topic, and until a new Congress can be elected) share of the power of Congress as whole.

This is like a squad of soldiers who give all their weapons to one member. It is true that that one member has no power beyond that which the squad 'as a whole' possessed, but he's got that power concentrated. Just because it's 'zero-sum' at the bottom line and this committee has no more power than Congress as a whole does not mean it has no real power. It got its power when the other members of Congress surrendered it as part of this bill.

They are still fully *responsible* - you can't delegate responsibility - but they have delegated all their *authority* to a Politburo.

After all, during the reign of the USSR, the Duma has 4000 members - more representatives than we have. And nothing became law until the Duma approved. Under your logic, the Politburo had no particular power. But if the votes of the ratifying body are a foregone conclusion . . . then the real power lies with those who make the decision, not with those who rubber-stamp the already-made decisions.
38 posted on 08/02/2011 12:43:53 PM PDT by Phlyer
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Boop His Tiny Tail!

Can you believe those itty bitty claws
will soon be six inches long?


Don't let the left get out of hand
Donate, monthly if possible

Sponsoring FReepers will contribute $10
For each New Monthly Donor

39 posted on 08/02/2011 12:49:54 PM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: Phlyer
They have not announced all the members, but they have made some early positions clear. 1) Nancy Pelosi will be on the committee, and 2) No one who voted *against* the bill will be allowed on the committee. Therefore, everyone on the Republican side who might not be a RINO is to be excluded.

It's my understanding that the four leaders Pelosi, Reid, Boehner, and McConnell will each get a seat on the committee and then each leader will choose 2 members from their party to fill the remainder of the seats. It will take a majority 7 out of 12 votes with at least one vote from each party (I assume since you would have to have one vote from the opposing party to reach 7 anyway since their are 6 members from each party, the section of the bill is rather obvious) Any spending cut recommendations passed would be guaranteed an up or down vote in the house and senate. There is some controversy on whether the committee can forward tax increases or only spending cuts, Boehner and Cantor says it can only forward spending cut's, the democrats disagree.

40 posted on 08/02/2011 12:57:38 PM PDT by apillar
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

I can’t go fishing anymore for fear of snagging guns lost in boating accidents. /S


41 posted on 08/02/2011 1:23:06 PM PDT by mcshot (Hey we're turning upside down compliments of career politicians.)
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To: 556x45

That factor is one of my big concerns “should the political winds” shift and fan blades start chopping solids.
Waco and Ruby Ridge made that perfectly clear with frequent swat team reminders.


42 posted on 08/02/2011 1:35:42 PM PDT by mcshot (Hey we're turning upside down compliments of career politicians.)
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To: GatĂșn(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

‘He stated this as a fact and that it will happen.’

How on earth would the Judge know? He is not somebody with a particular knowledge of Congress, his expertise is in other areas.


43 posted on 08/02/2011 1:44:38 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (Liberty and Union, Now and Forever, One and Inseparable -- Daniel Webster)
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To: calex59; apillar; atomic_dog

>> This committee really has no power above and beyond that of the legislature as a whole <<

Hey, Calex, would you please stop trying to spoil our elegant conspiracy theory? The commenters on this thread were really having more fun than a barrel of monkeys until spoil-sports like you started pouring cold water all over us!


44 posted on 08/02/2011 2:32:21 PM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: GatĂșn(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

45 posted on 08/02/2011 2:40:38 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Uh! That photo haunts me still. I hope the guy behind the gun has done the honorable thing and committed suicide by now. Disgraceful that a picture such of that could be shot in America.


46 posted on 08/02/2011 2:45:03 PM PDT by MayflowerMadam
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To: panaxanax
Drawn too many lines in the sand already.

Let’s get ready to rumble!

I feel the same way, BUT...

...The moment someone actually takes action to defend their 2nd Amendment Rights or their home, the entire conservative world ESPECIALLY most of those here at FR) will distance themselves from them. They will be condemned as a "nutcase", and a whole lot of other nasty names. Nobody will want to be associated with them.

Then the bootlickers will chime in, applauding the way our guy was gunned down in his own home, with the selector lever on his weapon still on "safe".

My point is that one or two guys ain't going to get it done.

What each of us needs to do is every morning, slap a full magazine in the evil black rifle and walk out on the front porch. If you neighbor to your right, and your neighbor to your left aren't standing there also... today ain't the day.

But hopefully, one day, it WILL be the day.

47 posted on 08/02/2011 3:53:23 PM PDT by PalmettoMason (Blacks are not inferior, but it is racist to hold them to the same standards as everyone else.)
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To: stockpirate
“You won’t need the 2nd amendment until
they try to take it away from you.”
Jefferson

The Republic, Is really dead....
This "Budget Deal" was our Final step
in the Federal Republic's downfall.
rem: Hilter's "rise to Power."


48 posted on 08/03/2011 10:13:21 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Vladimir Ilyich Lenin: "Of all the arts, the cinema is the most important." :)
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To: Gator113

I happen to know that we’ll survive until the end of next year.
That’s when I’ll have everything implemented in order to “drop out”.


49 posted on 08/03/2011 10:16:44 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: ronnyquest
Will you let the feds cross yet another line in the sand?

they just crossed it.
Jean N., Just announced [1 p.m._Fox] NEW Federal efforts
to "Help" local methods, to "control" ANY kind of extremists.
(rem: her/ 'Rats' previous comments about TEA Party)


50 posted on 08/03/2011 10:26:45 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Vladimir Ilyich Lenin: "Of all the arts, the cinema is the most important." :)
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