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Chinese agency cuts U.S. debt rating again
Market Watch ^ | Aug. 2, 2011 | Michael Kitchen,

Posted on 08/02/2011 10:51:36 PM PDT by george76

Chinese credit-rating agency Dagong Global Credit Rating Co. again downgraded U.S. sovereign debt Wednesday and warned of further downgrades, the state-run Xinhua news agency reported....

Dagong cut U.S. Treasurys to A from A+, with a negative outlook, saying growth in U.S. debt is still outpacing revenue growth. The latest move followed a Dongang downgrade of U.S. debt from AA to A+ in November, citing the launch of the Federal Reserve's second round of quantitative easing.

"The agency said the approval to raise the debt ceiling indicated that there will not be any positive changes in factors that will influence the country's debt-paying ability in the long run,"

...

The news came the same day as a Xinhua editorial said the U.S. had failed to defuse its “debt bomb.”

(Excerpt) Read more at marketwatch.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 0bamaratinggoes2aa; aaa; creditrating; dagong; debt; debtbomb; debtceiling; downgrade; moodys; negativeoutlook
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1 posted on 08/02/2011 10:51:40 PM PDT by george76
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To: george76

If the Chinese stop buying our bonds, we are in deep do.
The US will have to print more money, which will devalue the dollar, and before u know it a dollar won’t buy squat.
Should have made the cuts.


2 posted on 08/02/2011 10:55:25 PM PDT by tennmountainman
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To: george76

Asia is tanking


3 posted on 08/02/2011 10:56:19 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: george76

It’s looking more and more like we will all go together.


4 posted on 08/02/2011 10:57:28 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: george76

I never thought I’d see the day when China would see the U.S. more clearly than our own leaders.

This is embarrassing.

Damn our pretending leaders.


5 posted on 08/02/2011 10:57:37 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Is the destroyer anti-US anti-West anti-Christian anti-Israel and reminiscent of the anti-Christ?)
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To: tennmountainman
This debt deal is horrific. "We" added to our credit card the equivalent of 1/3 the entire chinese economy...even more than the entire output of Great Britain. And do the socialists in DC think the chinese are going to fork over money to us which is equivalent to 1/3 their GDP?

Where is this money going to come from...the Fed? The same Fed who is talking QE3?

We are going down hard folks.

6 posted on 08/02/2011 11:04:35 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: tennmountainman

If the Chinese stop buying our bonds, we are in deep do.
wrongo

If the Chinese stop buying our bonds, they are in deep do.

If the yuan goes up,
they will get what I call ‘Japan disease’.
with deflation stagnation, and unemployment.
as it is,
the only thing keeping china going now,
is construction of useless ghost cities.


7 posted on 08/02/2011 11:08:37 PM PDT by 50gunsalute
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Dis aint good.


8 posted on 08/02/2011 11:11:22 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: 50gunsalute

They are in over their heads,

But so are we.


9 posted on 08/02/2011 11:13:16 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: 50gunsalute

Gold is going to 1700


10 posted on 08/02/2011 11:13:58 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: tennmountainman

The Chinese can’t stop buying our bonds unless they decide to stop selling things to us. It’s an empty threat from a country that doesn’t have its own bond market.


11 posted on 08/02/2011 11:17:41 PM PDT by Pelham (Obama, the vanguard of the proletariat since 2008)
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To: Pelham

You know what bugs me?

The next step is war.

I dont think they can project military power to our hemisphere. but they aint Liking this ****


12 posted on 08/02/2011 11:22:22 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: george76

So - which makes a bigger impact - The Chinese, or Moody’s?

Who else, other than China even has the $ to buy our junk bonds? From recent reports - Europe is about to be totally bankrupt (Hey Europe - how’s that Muzzy-loving, one-currency, European Union join’ for you?).

Who does that leave? India? Russia? Venezuela? Brazil? This may sound naive - but who out there is willing to write a check to the USA for $2 Trillion? For that matter - who has that kind of solvent resources to even think about it? The Chinese?


13 posted on 08/02/2011 11:23:52 PM PDT by TheBattman (They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature...)
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Wrong Chart


14 posted on 08/02/2011 11:25:21 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: TheBattman

It aint gonna be Moodys


15 posted on 08/02/2011 11:26:19 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: mylife; Liz; null and void

http://www.cagle.com/working/110802/lester.jpg


16 posted on 08/02/2011 11:28:27 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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Hang Seng


17 posted on 08/02/2011 11:30:21 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: george76

LoL! I hate to laugh at that, but that’s what it looks like.


18 posted on 08/02/2011 11:31:43 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: george76

Bernake is gonna print a bunch of money, and inflation is going to kick in.

IMO


19 posted on 08/02/2011 11:34:09 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: mylife

This is not going to end well


20 posted on 08/02/2011 11:35:19 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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Meanwhile the chinese will sell less crap because we will tighten our belts.

The chinese are over leveraged.

We’ll see who survives this goat rope.


21 posted on 08/02/2011 11:36:54 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: george76

No. It’s U.G.L.Y.


22 posted on 08/02/2011 11:37:51 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: mylife

We have food, gold, silver...inflation already.

Ben Bernack is printing more money and buying Treasuries thru Goldman Sachs which is killing CD’s and other money market instruments


23 posted on 08/02/2011 11:39:42 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

So where is money to be made other that commodities?


24 posted on 08/02/2011 11:41:55 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: mylife

China is said to be purchasing an aircraft carrier. Carriers aren’t defensive weapons, they are for projecting power. If China starts building a blue water navy the halfwits we elect to office had better start paying attention.


25 posted on 08/02/2011 11:42:14 PM PDT by Pelham (Obama, the vanguard of the proletariat since 2008)
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Than


26 posted on 08/02/2011 11:42:47 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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Gold went up $40 an oz today


27 posted on 08/02/2011 11:43:37 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: tennmountainman
If the Chinese stop buying our bonds, we are in deep do.

Over the past year and a half the Chinese have reduced their holdings of US treasuries by nearly 60%.

They still hold more than anyone else, but they have seen trouble coming and reduced their exposure.

The second big problem with a rating downgrade is that the interest rate will have to be raised in order to sell new issue bonds. It won't take too much to get to a point where we can't pay the interest AND meet the rest of the Federal obligations, let alone retire the principal on any bonds. Then we're done.

28 posted on 08/02/2011 11:46:50 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Holy flippin' crap, Sarah rocks the world!)
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To: Pelham

India has 3 carriers in the works.
They should have 2 afloat shortly

Lord I hope they are decent people. Half of them are commies and a further 1/4 are nuts, but a further 1/4 are like us.


29 posted on 08/02/2011 11:47:12 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: TheBattman

“So - which makes a bigger impact - The Chinese, or Moody’s?”

The bond Vigilantes. They’ll buy our bonds but only at a higher interest rate.

” This may sound naive - but who out there is willing to write a check to the USA for $2 Trillion?”

That’s not naive at all. Some very sharp analysts have already been warning that the amount of money that the US will need to borrow is going to exceed the world’s available savings.


30 posted on 08/02/2011 11:47:12 PM PDT by Pelham (Obama, the vanguard of the proletariat since 2008)
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To: mylife

other that commodities?

Good question.

Best to not lose money by standing on the sidelines for now ?


31 posted on 08/02/2011 11:50:42 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Navy Patriot

“They still hold more than anyone else, “

Actually they aren’t the largest holder of our bonds, they are something like 5th on the list. Britain and Japan are ahead of them, as are American insurance companies.


32 posted on 08/02/2011 11:50:47 PM PDT by Pelham (Obama, the vanguard of the proletariat since 2008)
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To: george76

I dont know.

I feel like inflation is coming


33 posted on 08/02/2011 11:52:20 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: mylife

I wouldn’t worry about India’s carriers. But I’m certain that China does.


34 posted on 08/02/2011 11:52:27 PM PDT by Pelham (Obama, the vanguard of the proletariat since 2008)
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To: Pelham

China should.

Theirs is crap


35 posted on 08/02/2011 11:55:31 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: mylife

“I feel like inflation is coming”

Coming??? What planet are you living on, because it’s already HERE on this one.

Been to grocery lately?


36 posted on 08/02/2011 11:56:03 PM PDT by tcrlaf (PREFRONTAL LOBOTOMISTS FOR OBAMA2012!)
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To: tcrlaf

I know


37 posted on 08/03/2011 12:01:27 AM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: mylife
I agree.

Longer term bonds will get punished when the money printing fails. Stock markets seem high [ which presents the contrary opportunity } with low volume recently.

38 posted on 08/03/2011 12:06:00 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Navy Patriot

“Over the past year and a half the Chinese have reduced their holdings of US treasuries by nearly 60%.”

That sounds like QE2. We bought their U.S. treasuries back with printed money. Maybe downgrade came when the Chinese felt the wet ink on the Fed banknotes.


39 posted on 08/03/2011 12:06:06 AM PDT by haroldeveryman
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To: Pelham
Actually they aren’t the largest holder of our bonds,

You are correct, I'm tryin' to do the math in my head while going from tab to tab. I'll learn to copy and paste, juxtaposed on Wordpad.

40 posted on 08/03/2011 12:09:21 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Holy flippin' crap, Sarah rocks the world!)
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To: george76

some of this stuff is hard to believe.

US 10 year bond, yield is 2,58 percent.

don’t believe me?
go here
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=USGG10YR:IND


41 posted on 08/03/2011 12:17:59 AM PDT by 50gunsalute
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To: Pelham
" The Chinese can’t stop buying our bonds unless they decide to stop selling things to us. It’s an empty threat from a country that doesn’t have its own bond market. "
In response to your post, and the other poster who said that their construction projects amount to worthless " Ghost Cities " .......
Well, they got to keep those factories going to sell us good from their imports to keep their fiscal and economic house running.... no, WAIT ! .. there was a major wave of factory closings in China last year, and this year, yes, they are also in deep, doo doo... in other words ? they have no choice but to buy our worthless bonds ( that is ? up to a certain point ) .. and then what ? War ? total world wide economic collapse and then war ? .....

Does anyone get the thought ? vision ? of when Jack and Rose was at the stern of the Titanic and he told Rose, that, this is it, hold on ? and the Titanic was on it's final plunge into the ocean.
42 posted on 08/03/2011 12:18:49 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: 50gunsalute
" with deflation stagnation, and unemployment "

China had a major wave of factory closings last year, and this year, things don't look good at all...

43 posted on 08/03/2011 12:20:44 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: haroldeveryman
If the Fed prints money to buy US treasuries, you are correct, it will cause serious inflation.

Unfortunately, we don't know exactly what the Fed does with Quantitative Easing currency creation, they have been able to defeat Congress' demands for transparency.

Additionally I failed to note (poor math), the the Chinese sale of bonds likely went to the foreign nations that now hold more than China.

This means there is less chance that an accomplished QE currency creation has gone for US Treasury Bonds. The danger is that the Fed will do this in the future.

44 posted on 08/03/2011 12:22:33 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Holy flippin' crap, Sarah rocks the world!)
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To: Pelham
" China is said to be purchasing an aircraft carrier. Carriers aren’t defensive weapons, they are for projecting power. If China starts building a blue water navy the halfwits we elect to office had better start paying attention. "

That maybe true, but ? how fast will they be able to produce enough of them to be even a remote threat to the USA before the storm of world wide economic Armageddon closes in ?
45 posted on 08/03/2011 12:25:11 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: DoughtyOne

They don’t. They, of course, rank China bonds AAA.

Same old ****, different day.


46 posted on 08/03/2011 1:28:16 AM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: 50gunsalute

Compared to the stock market which has returned over the last 11 years a total of .2 percent? That’s a princely sum.


47 posted on 08/03/2011 1:43:25 AM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: mylife

Yeah, Obama’s going to have to dip into his stash to keep it above 10k. We’re going down folks!

Market peak in Oct of ‘07 still the high point, close to 4 years later. Only period that was longer was the recession from ‘00 to ‘06, where it took 6 years to fully recover.


48 posted on 08/03/2011 1:45:45 AM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: BenKenobi

Downgrading our credit rating isn’t a blind man’s move these days.

Perhaps China is wrong to rate their’s AAA. I still don’t see our credit rating to be good.

With the Obama/Geitner Comedy team in charge, this is a circus.

I appreciate your response though. I doubt you see us as a great bet today either. Raising the debt ceiling once again, this simply cannot go on. Today, tomorrow, ten years from now, we’re going to wind up in a world of hurt.


49 posted on 08/03/2011 1:51:52 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Is the destroyer anti-US anti-West anti-Christian anti-Israel and reminiscent of the anti-Christ?)
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To: BenKenobi

Market from 1965 to 1982 was essentially flat. So that’s the last time we had such a long period where the DOW didn’t climb.

DOW in 1965 was 910 and was 884 in 1982. So that’s 17 years. This downturn has already lasted 11, going on 12 years now.

Great depression was 1929 to 1954, so 25 years. :(


50 posted on 08/03/2011 1:52:55 AM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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