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US helicopter 'shot down in Taliban trap'
Daily Telegraph (UK) ^ | 8/8/2011 | Unattributed

Posted on 08/08/2011 5:05:26 AM PDT by 1066AD

"Now it's confirmed that the helicopter was shot down and it was a trap that was set by a Taliban commander," said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The official said the commander lured US forces to the scene by telling them there was a Taliban meeting taking place there.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; biden; navyseals; seals; wot
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Did they know which units were aboard ?

After all the whole world knows about Seal Team 6 thanks to Biden & Obama.

1 posted on 08/08/2011 5:05:32 AM PDT by 1066AD
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To: 1066AD

Just Wow! This accusation should result in quite a thread this morning.


2 posted on 08/08/2011 5:11:58 AM PDT by ngat
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To: 1066AD

When you have a vain moron who’s only waking thought is to get reelected this is the result.


3 posted on 08/08/2011 5:12:07 AM PDT by Recon Dad ( five words most feared by a Louisiana politician: “Will the defendant please rise.”)
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To: 1066AD

Bring the troops home. Notify Afghanistan and Pakistan that they are considered hostile nations and send nuclear tipped tomahawks their way as needed.

Enough is enough...


4 posted on 08/08/2011 5:13:06 AM PDT by TSgt (When in the Course of human events...)
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To: 1066AD

I’m skeptical. It’s all to easy for some unattributable source to claim a transmission tricked the Special Forces.

The radio transmissions are encrypted to begin with and it is hard to believe there are not validating procedures in place on top of the encryption to prevent things like this from happening.

Hell, I was in the AF and even we didn’t just take any radio transmission as fact and act on them without proper confirmations.


5 posted on 08/08/2011 5:13:57 AM PDT by 101voodoo
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To: 1066AD

Lose lips sink ships. The final chapter of the Bin Laden debacle.

Pray for America


6 posted on 08/08/2011 5:14:26 AM PDT by bray (Hey Country Club, your turn to hold your nose!)
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To: 1066AD
After all the whole world knows about Seal Team 6 thanks to Biden & Obama.

Photobucket Photobucket

7 posted on 08/08/2011 5:15:39 AM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: 1066AD

If the US thought there was a high level meeting of top Taliban commanders taking place we would likely send our elites.
Ensure the job got done.

Thanks, Joe Biden.


8 posted on 08/08/2011 5:16:01 AM PDT by Vinnie
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To: ngat

Just asking !!


9 posted on 08/08/2011 5:18:25 AM PDT by 1066AD
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To: 1066AD
Assuming that Spcl Ops troops were aboard....some questions.

Is this the normal way to move these highly specialized troops - bunched into an overly large group in a single aircraft? Has this been done before? If no, why this time? Is this normal?? If not, why this time?

Who is the commander who ordered this? Is he/she being held accountable for this decision?

10 posted on 08/08/2011 5:19:08 AM PDT by Logic n' Reason (The stain must be REMOVED (ERADICATED)....NOW!!)
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To: TSgt

Agreed - and because we can’t trust this CIC with precious American blood & toil.


11 posted on 08/08/2011 5:23:43 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: 1066AD

Notice that this article is attributed to sources inside Karzai’s government..Karzai made the first announcement of the crash....not US HQ..something stinks here..


12 posted on 08/08/2011 5:24:11 AM PDT by ken5050 (uities)
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To: ngat

Today is not the first suggestion of an inside deal or a set up.

Being bunched in a single aircraft is awfully irregular.

Being taken out with a single shot is also unusual.

Too much has been said about what is supposed to be a deep shadows outfit.


13 posted on 08/08/2011 5:27:07 AM PDT by Sequoyah101 (Half the people are below average.)
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To: Logic n' Reason
Is this the normal way to move these highly specialized troops - bunched into an overly large group in a single aircraft? Has this been done before? If no, why this time? Is this normal?? If not, why this time?

The Chinook is definitely the preferred helo for ops of this kind. It can fly higher, and in hotter temps, than other helos in the US inventory. Critical when operating in the Afghan mountains in Summer.
14 posted on 08/08/2011 5:27:43 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: 1066AD

Thanks, DUMB and DUMBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


15 posted on 08/08/2011 5:30:03 AM PDT by Colorado Cowgirl (God bless America!)
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To: tanknetter
I just re-read my post. I did not ask about the particular type of aircraft used.

If you wish, please re-read the original post and address the questions asked.

Thanks.

16 posted on 08/08/2011 5:30:12 AM PDT by Logic n' Reason (The stain must be REMOVED (ERADICATED)....NOW!!)
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To: 1066AD

at first blush, sounds plausible but would the SEALS really go to a battle like that in a chithook?


17 posted on 08/08/2011 5:30:18 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (From her lips to the voters' ears: Debbie Wasserman Schultz: "We own the economy" June 15, 2011)
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To: kristinn; All

We need a Af/Pak news and statement timeline put up.

Will message the usual suspects.


18 posted on 08/08/2011 5:30:37 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray. For all the latest, check out: http://directorblue.blogspot.com/)
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To: 1066AD
After all the whole world knows about Seal Team 6 thanks to Biden & Obama.

The top layer has been peeled off this onion of conspiracy. As more layer peel off will they reveal a Cpl. Manning on the inside of the operation giving them organizational information?

19 posted on 08/08/2011 5:31:39 AM PDT by Calusa (The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles. Quoth Bob Dylan.)
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To: Allegra

PING

to one who would know more than most FReepers


20 posted on 08/08/2011 5:31:49 AM PDT by Roccus (Obama & Holder LLP, Procurers of fine arms to the most discerning drug lords (202) 456-1414)
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To: Sequoyah101

“Today is not the first suggestion of an inside deal or a set up.”

No, but the first stories out appeared to be disinformation to set the tone; that the Chinook was brought down by a lucky shot from a single 60s era RPG, none of the Osama team on board, etc. Who is outing our clandestine units?


21 posted on 08/08/2011 5:35:35 AM PDT by ngat
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To: TSgt
sure - after all we have a record of running - think Vietnam (thank you Kerry's Congress), Somalia (thanks to Clinton)- and now Afghanistan? (thanks FR)

I like the slogan, “when the going gets tough, the tough get going.”

22 posted on 08/08/2011 5:36:15 AM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-Qaeda" and its allies.)
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To: 1066AD
In this attack, the Taliban used precisely the same type weapons and tactics against us that the Mujahideen used against the Soviets back in the 1980s. Nothing new here.
23 posted on 08/08/2011 5:37:05 AM PDT by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: 1066AD; P-Marlowe; Steel Wolf

If true, then the entire “rescue mission” story is a lie. One is true and one is false. Wonder which it is.

Would 20 Seal Team members suit up to provide reinforcement for a pinned down Ranger team?

I’m more given to believing that Rangers would mount up to relieve Rangers. They are rock solid about “leave no man behind.”

Therefore, I’m leaning in the direction of their suiting up to take out an important Taliban commander. The questions would then remain how they planted intel with our SpecOps, how they knew the route the Seals would take, and why the mission might have required a single airframe inserting a fairly large force.


24 posted on 08/08/2011 5:50:04 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their VICTORY!)
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To: elpadre

Running?

I never said run.

I just don’t see the need to expend precious U.S. lives when we can leverage technology overwhelming force.

In fact, I want to fight harder. Stop pussyfooting around with these Muslim nations. Put them on notice!


25 posted on 08/08/2011 5:50:35 AM PDT by TSgt (When in the Course of human events...)
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To: tanknetter

Your correct.....no viable alternative to the Chinook in the helicopter un-friendly Afghan terrain.


26 posted on 08/08/2011 5:52:10 AM PDT by stationkeeper
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To: 1066AD

You can be confident that the Afghan Army, like the Pak Army is completely infected by the Taliban and other radical Islamist. The others are sympathetic to the radicals.


27 posted on 08/08/2011 5:55:28 AM PDT by JimSEA (The future ain't what it used to be.)
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To: TSgt

Bring the troops home. Notify Afghanistan and Pakistan that they are considered hostile nations
///
Amen!
hold them responsible for any attacks by their citizens.
the Pakistani people in polls list the USA as their enemy.
we can’t change their hearts and minds, as long as we give money and build mosques,
and are forbidden to give Bibles even as gifts.

bring our troops home now!


28 posted on 08/08/2011 5:59:36 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: xzins
Citing intelligence "gathered from the area," the official blamed Qari Tahir, a Taliban commander, for masterminding the attack. He alleged that four Pakistani nationals helped Tahir carry out the strike...He said the intelligence also showed that the Chinook helicopter was brought down by multiple shots including "modern weapons" without giving further details.

I don't know how reliable this is, but the article also said that the place of the supposed meeting was in a valley, and there is only one way to fly into it, which would have brought them in close enough to be hit. It seems that other troops were already there, closing on the site of the supposed meeting, and the special ops flight was a standard back-up and not a last-minute extraction mission.

If this is the case, then clearly the Taliban knew the procedure and just had to rely on its being followed in order to spring their trap.

29 posted on 08/08/2011 6:01:13 AM PDT by livius
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To: 1066AD

It was a trap alright..........


30 posted on 08/08/2011 6:06:37 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Vinnie

Doubt it, we should have sent a couple of drones.


31 posted on 08/08/2011 6:11:33 AM PDT by org.whodat (What does the Republican party stand for////??? absolutely nothing.)
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To: DJ Taylor
If it was the same weapon that the Mujahideen used in the 80’s we got hit by our own stinger. Or perhaps something similar?
32 posted on 08/08/2011 6:15:23 AM PDT by GranTorino (Bloody Lips Save Ships.)
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To: 1066AD

I believe the jihadi in the White House is celebrating.


33 posted on 08/08/2011 6:17:48 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: ngat

Meanwhile, anyone who questioned this op and said it smelled rotten was accused of being a conspiracy nut by those who just KNOW everything the government tells us is a straight shot.
MY ASS!!!


34 posted on 08/08/2011 6:21:14 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Going down! (Gunwalker Ping List))
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To: 1066AD

I think they knew, I think someone who is in our government told them. I think it was planned revenge for Osama...and salve for the Muslims.


35 posted on 08/08/2011 6:23:06 AM PDT by pepperdog (Why are Democrats Afraid of a Voter ID Law?)
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To: onedoug

bday gift FOR obama, ramamamama gift FROM obama.


36 posted on 08/08/2011 6:23:44 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Going down! (Gunwalker Ping List))
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To: Elendur; TSgt

“Bring the troops home. Notify Afghanistan and Pakistan that they are considered hostile nations”

Agreed. We can’t win a war when we don’t know who the enemy is. The smiling goat herder your convoy passes during the day is the same cold blooded killer launching rockets at your compound when the sun goes down. We can’t win it by doing knock & talks, and pacifying townspeople. We need to pull our people out, and using technology available to us, identify and destroy new terrorist training camps and other threats from the air. And that goes for both countries. Pakistan is no friend.


37 posted on 08/08/2011 6:25:34 AM PDT by NavyCanDo
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To: 1066AD

Did anyone listen to Navy SEAL Vaughn’s Dad this morning on the Today Show?

He told a story about wolves, sheep (who a lot of people are = followers) and the sheepdogs (military) who hunt the wolves (bad guys) He went on to say something about a head sheep who talked about things 90 days ago..........then I lost the gist of it because Lauer tried to stop him at that point.

It seemed to me the story was about voters, politicians, the head dope 0 and muslims?


38 posted on 08/08/2011 6:27:14 AM PDT by WestCoastGal (SL I believe hes a remarkable race-car driver, I think some people in the world have forgotten that)
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To: stationkeeper; tanknetter
Your(sic) correct.....no viable alternative to the Chinook in the helicopter un-friendly Afghan terrain.

You are both incorrect. There are two extremely capable alternatives when they are available and if SF would choose to utilize them; the CH-53E or the MV-22B.

‘Flying Tigers’ show true meaning of ‘horsepower’ with Super Stallion

12/10/2010 By Sgt. Derek B. Carlson 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing

A CH-53E Super Stallion with the Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 361 returns to Forward Operating Base Jalalabad, Afghanistan to deliver a disabled H-47 Chinook for repairs Dec. 10. The Flying Tigers, based out of Camp Bastion, flew across the country to conduct the mission. Their Super Stallions are the only aircraft in country capable of a 23,500 pound external lift.

Ospreys Flying High, Fast Supporting War in Afghanistan

VMM-261 Inserts Troops Into Marjah

Marines from 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion, Marine Expeditionary Brigade-Afghanistan, make their way toward three MV-22 Ospreys from Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 261, Marine Aircraft Group 40, MEB-Afghanistan, that will insert them into Marjah to help provide relief to an infantry battalion that had been engaged in a heavy firefight, Feb. 19. (U.S. Marine Corps photo by Lance Cpl. Samuel Nasso)

39 posted on 08/08/2011 6:58:38 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: TSgt
Bring the troops home. Notify Afghanistan and Pakistan that they are considered hostile nations and send nuclear tipped tomahawks their way as needed.

Enough is enough...


I agree 100%. This all makes me SICK. It is utterly vile. We would have to maintain a military presence in these countries forever to prevent ultra-crazies from taking them over instead of just the very-crazies that run them now.

We can not stay there forever. It makes absolutely no sense.

I thought from the time we first attacked Afgan and Iraq that we should ONLY attack, destroy and then COME HOME IMMEDIATELY.

THAT is the correct message to send.

Namely - DO NOT HARBOR PEOPLE WHO ATTACK THE U.S. - ROUTE THEM OUT AND KILL THEM ALL, OR IF WE FIND A LINK DOWN THE ROAD, WE WILL COME BACK AND CARPET BOMB ALL YOUR LARGE CITIES - AGAIN.

Do not waste time trying to TEACH them anything. They are adults. They all have the responsibility to figure out how to live their lives on their own.

In crooked crazy countries run by nasty dictators, it's very easy to deal with them. Just deal with them at arms length. Don't help them, don't trade with them, don't go near them. If they raise one finger against you, FLATTEN THEM WITH CARPET BOMBING. Then come back home IMMEDIATELY.
40 posted on 08/08/2011 7:09:46 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We need to fix things ourselves)
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To: NavyCanDo

We can’t win a war when we don’t know who the enemy is.
///
great point!

and this is not a war on “terror”.
Sun-Tzu is still taught in our Academies.

knowing your enemy is essential. the Taliban are not a “tiny minority misunderstanding their religion”.

a “moderate” Imam near D.C., told me that Osama bin Laden was NOT misunderstanding Islam. that in fact, he was correct.

until we stop believing the taquiyya and kitman,
and understand and admit the role Islam itself plays,
we cannot win “hearts and minds”, or make good strategy.


41 posted on 08/08/2011 7:26:38 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Logic n' Reason
Does not smell right.

A highly specialized team, going to insertion, and no gunship tac trail? No C & C orbiting higher, No AWACS layered eyes? RPG's are point and shoot. Either the bird comes close to the ground because it is flying over a mountain, or it is on approach, otherwise, no can hit the hook.

I could imagine a scenario whereby they were planning on a stealth insertion, but would still have tac trail, perhaps higher in the form of a fast mover, and had their plans compromised, thus flying into a hasty ambush.

Many questions, here.

42 posted on 08/08/2011 7:34:33 AM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: TSgt

I agree. The Rules of Engagement need to change allowing fast and furious direct support by air and artillery. IOW, release the military to fight the fight.

Politics is the worst kind of friendly fire. And it is killing our finest.


43 posted on 08/08/2011 7:48:35 AM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-Qaeda" and its allies.)
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To: WestCoastGal

I caught part of that interview too but Matt kept cutting him off while he was talking. Has a transcript or the video pooped up yet? Sounded to me like he was calling the current administration a bunch of sheep or sheeple.


44 posted on 08/08/2011 8:25:54 AM PDT by squeegee boy
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To: ngat

I’d start looking 10 time zones to the West.


45 posted on 08/08/2011 8:26:01 AM PDT by Sequoyah101 (Half the people are below average.)
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To: squeegee boy

Deleted from the interview the today show posted, but I found the transcript that was edited out.

Matt: mr. vaughn , i was reading about your son. and, boy, he was an impressive young man as a child, as a young adult , as a son, as a father, as a husband. he was a young man who stood out. why did he want to be a s.e.a.l.?

Mr Vaughn: >> matt, i can just tell you that after 9/11 aaron told me and his mother that he wanted to be a s.e.a.l. and he said that he had wanted to ever since he was a little boy . and aaron , if i can just say it, god bless him, he loved his country, he loved god, he loved kimberly , and he loved reagan and chamberlain, and he honestly believed and saw black and white that what we were involved in, and he told me this, is a war for survival of our republic. aaron knows that the war, islamic fundamentalism , radicalism has gone on for hundreds of years if not thousands. and it can be traced through history. and he felt, and so did the other members of his team, felt that the very existence of our republic is at stake. and because of that, aaron was willing to give his life. and what i have to say is that s.e.a.l. team six, i just know those men felt the same way and they see it clearly, they see it black and white . so many of us don’t. aaron told me right out of his own mouth that he had a class where he said, dad, there’s three kinds — the man told us there are three kinds of people in the world, sheep dogs, sheep, and wolves. i can honestly say that s.e.a.l. team six are the desheep dogs. sheep dogs always see the warning, black and white , clearly. most of us are sheep. we don’t usually see it.

Matt:>> karen —

Mr Vaughn:>> and there are some wolves out there —

Matt:>> go ahead, sir. i’m sorry.

Mr. Vaughn:>> there are wolves out there, and aaron explained it to me. and, you know, it’s really strange, matt, that — that 90 some odd days ago s.e.a.l. team six had a big victory and possibly sheep in higher places said things what made many of us very uncomfortable. and now some 90 some odd days later s.e.a.l. team six has suffered a terrible tragedy. i just pray that during these last days, these next days, they will allow s.e.a.l. team six, the wives, the children, the families to grieve, to bury their dead, and not make it political.


46 posted on 08/08/2011 8:36:36 AM PDT by squeegee boy
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To: going hot
Many questions, here.

Many questions....and to date....no plausible answers.

Who...if anyone....is investigating?

47 posted on 08/08/2011 9:15:36 AM PDT by Logic n' Reason (The stain must be REMOVED (ERADICATED)....NOW!!)
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To: Logic n' Reason
Is this the normal way to move these highly specialized troops - bunched into an overly large group in a single aircraft? Has this been done before? ... Is this normal??

Yes. I've observed vast numbers of missions with only Chinooks, Blackhawks, little birds, or any combination of the above. It's always at the mission's requirements and available resources. Wardak is right next to Bagram and Shank (the two big air hubs in RC-E), meaning they could have taken their pick of any number of airframes.

Who is the commander who ordered this? Is he/she being held accountable for this decision?

No. Airlift is airlift. The military ordered Chinooks for a reason. The fact that they occasionally get shot down doesn't negate the overall need for massing troops into a single airframe.

As an example, due to altitude, tiny landing zones on mountainous areas, or any number of reasons, it may have been more or less advantageous to use one large Chinook for their IRF team. Not being the commander on the ground, there's dozens of factors we're not seeing, and only one that we are. It's easy to sharpshoot that one, more so today, but these guys run these types of missions every night. If they choose a certain air frame, it's because it's the tool they desired for that mission.

48 posted on 08/08/2011 9:23:20 AM PDT by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: ken5050
Notice that this article is attributed to sources inside Karzai’s government..Karzai made the first announcement of the crash....not US HQ..something stinks here..

Just normal practice these days. We have to notify Afghan officials when we do operations now. That means that the Afghan government (and the Taliban) have a better line on what our high level SOF units are up to than the rest of the military, or the U.S. at large.

49 posted on 08/08/2011 9:26:01 AM PDT by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: 101voodoo
I’m skeptical. It’s all to easy for some unattributable source to claim a transmission tricked the Special Forces. ... Hell, I was in the AF and even we didn’t just take any radio transmission as fact and act on them without proper confirmations.

You are completely correct, but that's not exactly what the article is hinting at. Let me clarify.

The Taliban commander fed information into our intelligence collection architecture. It doesn't say how, but that point doesn't matter. We have eyes and ears, real and electronic, all over the place. The Taliban know we watch them, and they know certain actions will get our attention. Senior leader Taliban meetings being a big one, obviously.

What this means is that the Taliban is becoming very sophisticated at figuring out how to leave bait that our HUMINT, SIGINT and other intel vacuums side will take up and accept as valid. If they feed information to HUMINT sources we trust, and wires we listen to, they can lure us wherever they want.

50 posted on 08/08/2011 9:35:54 AM PDT by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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