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Grand Jury Calls for Investigating Homeschoolers (Response...)
Homeschool Legal Defense Associaton ^ | 8/2/11

Posted on 08/09/2011 6:02:08 PM PDT by Recovering_Democrat

On July 25, 2011, the Miami-Dade grand jury released several sweeping recommendations in a detailed report on the Nubia Barahona case. The murder of 10-year-old Nubia, apparently at the hands of her adoptive parents earlier this year in Florida, was a heinous crime for which the perpetrators should be severely punished...

While it is right to conduct a thorough review in the aftermath of tragic events in an effort to prevent similar tragedies, it is also important not to overreact. Unfortunately, the grand jury report overreacts in its recommendations to amend Florida’s homeschool laws because of Nubia’s adoptive parents’ claim that they were homeschooling her for the seven months leading up to her death.

The grand jury recommends that the law be amended to require every notice of intent for a home education program to “be forwarded to DCF to determine if any reports have been made to the DCF Hotline.” The grand jury went on to recommend that if parents had ever been the subject of a Department of Children and Families (DCF) investigation, they were to be immediately subject to a new investigation by DCF and required to submit to a period of monitoring, even if the previous investigation completely cleared them.

These overreaching recommendations are of great concern to Home School Legal Defense Association, the local homeschool community in Florida, and the wider homeschool movement around the country. The recommendations are stunning because they assume that the lawful decision of parents to teach their children at home must be examined by DCF every single time. Even more concerning, is the grand jury’s declaration that if parents had been falsely reported up to seven years ago and completely exonerated, they would be subject to an investigation and undetermined period of monitoring by DCF.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: chicago; columbine; frhf; homeschooling; publicschool; school
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More at the link...the title given was in an email blast by the HSLDA and at tehir web site.
1 posted on 08/09/2011 6:02:13 PM PDT by Recovering_Democrat
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To: Recovering_Democrat; Joe Brower; seekthetruth

Florida news ping, please!


2 posted on 08/09/2011 6:03:06 PM PDT by Recovering_Democrat
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To: Recovering_Democrat

Maybe duct tape should also be monitored.


3 posted on 08/09/2011 6:07:45 PM PDT by samtheman
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To: metmom

Ping


4 posted on 08/09/2011 6:08:01 PM PDT by justsaynomore (Herman Cain 2012 - http://www.arealleader.com)
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To: Recovering_Democrat; bamahead; 2Jedismom; 6amgelsmama; AAABEST; aberaussie; adopt4Christ; ...

HOMESCHOOL PING

This ping list is for articles of interest to homeschoolers. I hold both the Homeschool Ping List and the Another Reason to Homeschool Ping List. Please freepmail me to let me know if you would like to be added or removed from either list, or both.

The keyword for the FREE REPUBLIC HOMESCHOOLERS’ FORUM is frhf.

And what about the public school kids who die at the hands of their public school parents?

5 posted on 08/09/2011 6:12:37 PM PDT by metmom (Be the kind of woman that when you wake in the morning, the devil says, "Oh crap, she's UP !!")
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Unfortunately, the grand jury report overreacts in its recommendations to amend Florida’s homeschool laws because of Nubia’s adoptive parents’ claim that they were homeschooling her for the seven months leading up to her death.

All banks must investigate all safety deposit box renters for bank robbery as that is how a few banks got robbed.

And the stupid in government just keep on rolling...

.

6 posted on 08/09/2011 6:13:50 PM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: metmom

The idea is that other adults will notice the marks of beatings, torture and abuse. Or she would mention it to another kid who would tell someone.

When the schools ignore or don’t see what is in front of them, they have not done their jobs.


7 posted on 08/09/2011 6:31:38 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: metmom

You wrote:”And what about the public school kids who die at the hands of their public school parents?”

My reply: Or die at the hands of public school family members and or guardians? One name comes to mind, from recent headlines, Ame Deal.


8 posted on 08/09/2011 6:38:40 PM PDT by This I Wonder32460
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To: arrogantsob

When Kayla McKean was murdered in FL more than 10 years ago and the schools nor DFACS had seen the abuse right before their eyes, I didn’t see every child they taught being investigated.


9 posted on 08/09/2011 6:39:21 PM PDT by Shimmer1 (Navy blue)
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To: Shimmer1

That is a damn shame that a little girl was killed. Most likely there were either new laws resulting from that and/or changes in procedures at the schools to increase awareness of such abuse.

It is an ongoing probable because of the Welfare Class being generally without a father in the home. Abuse of the children in those homes is an epidemic.

That is where society’s concern should be centered.

But people should not be able to claim they are home schooling when they are just neglecting the child. Or worse.


10 posted on 08/09/2011 6:47:10 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob
The idea is that other adults will notice the marks of beatings, torture and abuse. Or she would mention it to another kid who would tell someone.

As I see it it's amazingly foolish they would go after homeschoolers when the very reason my grand daughters are being home-schooled is because of their fears of abuse in the schools...and the teachers inability to correct the problems when they arise. And this in one of the top schools in our area.

11 posted on 08/09/2011 7:09:08 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Why are your granddaughters in fear of abuse.


12 posted on 08/09/2011 7:11:43 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob

Because of other student happenings they see in their school. They see the teachers can do little to intervene when situations arise. And they learn of other happenings that aren’t reported to teachers.


13 posted on 08/09/2011 7:38:46 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

So nothing has happened to them.

Even where I live, Chicago, most “events” are the same kind that happened in my schools fifty years ago. My kids had no problems in their schools and both turned out to be terrific men.


14 posted on 08/09/2011 8:56:57 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob
But people should not be able to claim they are home schooling when they are just neglecting the child. Or worse.
Government schools are run by people who think they care about the children. But present a schoolteacher or administrator with the bill for a single semester of college tuition, and see how fast they backpedal from any thought of actually being committed to that child. But long before it comes time for college, a child's education is critically dependent on parental support of the child's education and educators. So a child lacking in home support won't come out of school with much of an education in any event.

Sending a child to government school is the path of least resistance for the parent. So homeschooling isn't neglect but its opposite. It is the maximum parental involvement in the child's education.

Yes indeed, any incident of child abuse to anything like the extent of the worst examples is a horror. But preventing the people who are most responsible for the way a child turns out from having the authority to educate that child is also an abuse. And make no mistake, no other adult can be relied on more than the child's own family. "Child Protective Services" is a desperate gamble for a child, and only appropriate when you are sure that the child has no protector at home. Which brings us, of course, to the issue of the single-parent family, and the live-in boyfriend . . .
And the sabotaging of the place of the father in the family.

15 posted on 08/10/2011 2:34:33 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (DRAFT PALIN)
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To: arrogantsob
I don't call police officers patrolling ‘inside’ schools today 24/7 the norm of fifty years ago...does that in itself not make a bold statement? They would not be there unless their were issues to attend to often enough to warrant their presence daily.

Fifty years ago it was more than rare to see in officer in our schools. And no the events today are different in that the students are certainly of another mindset toward authorities than fifty years ago...as well as their behavior when they are caught. Also students game the system to get each other in trouble.

16 posted on 08/10/2011 6:29:01 AM PDT by caww
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
The most dangerous person in a child's life is the mom's boyfriend. If the powers that be are really interested in preventing abuse, that is where they should focus, on families where mom and dad are not together and there is a live-in-boyfriend. But that is not the goal here, it is to make homeschooling more difficult. The government types don't like not having access to our children and the dollars they get from having their bottoms in seats in the government schools.

I'm starting my last year of homeschooling and I live in FL. Thankfully I'll be finished before they can start forcing me to deal with DCF.

17 posted on 08/10/2011 6:50:56 AM PDT by aberaussie
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To: arrogantsob

So because nothing happened to your sons (who are now adults) you think that schools are just fine? That is truly naive.


18 posted on 08/10/2011 8:10:27 AM PDT by christianhomeschoolmommaof3
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Yes, we know the drill. Something horrible happens involving a homeschooling family and immediately all homeschoolers must be investigated.

Meanwhile, horrible things happen in the public schools day after day and nothing is ever done about it.

The double standard could not be more obvious.
19 posted on 08/10/2011 8:39:11 AM PDT by Antoninus (Nothing that offends God can possibly be a legitimate right.)
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To: christianhomeschoolmommaof3

I didn’t say that. However, the fears expressed around here are completely overblown.


20 posted on 08/10/2011 10:03:30 AM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion

“Government schools are run by people who think they care about the children. But present a schoolteacher or administrator with the bill for a single semester of college tuition, and see how fast they backpedal from any thought of actually being committed to that child.” Is this supposed to mean something?

“But long before it comes time for college, a child’s education is critically dependent on parental support of the child’s education and educators. So a child lacking in home support won’t come out of school with much of an education in any event.” Absolutely correct. Most of the failures in public schooling is because 70% of the Black students have no father at home. These Welfare families rarely have any educational success not because the schools are broken but because the families are broken.

“Sending a child to government school is the path of least resistance for the parent.” In most cases it is because parents are aware they cannot do the job as well as people who are trained to do it. Simple division of labor.

“So homeschooling isn’t neglect but its opposite.” For the vast majority of cases you are correct BUT I wasn’t speaking about them but the cases where people CLAIM to be home-schooling but are NOT.

My comment was in no way directed at parents who are REALLY trying to home school.


21 posted on 08/10/2011 10:13:18 AM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: caww

Some schools have metal detectors but the vast majority do not. Most of your fears are overblown but typical.

Most people who do not live here think Chicago is completely crime-ridden. It isn’t. My neighborhood and its public elementary school are likely as safe as yours. I have no fear walking the streets at any hour.


22 posted on 08/10/2011 10:17:38 AM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob
Well obvious you are in a sheltered community....most do not have that luxury....Do you not read the news about Chicago...let alone the stats etc.? Are you really that naive to the changes since fifty years ago? It sure looks like it.

I'm beginning to think your name does say it all.

23 posted on 08/10/2011 10:39:02 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

My community is not “sheltered” but just a middle class community. There are no rich here or mansions. People work for a living just as in your neighborhood.

Most of the negative news originates from the Black neighborhoods or the Latino ones where gangs run rampant. In fact, there is a handful of high crime areas which distorts the view of the whole city.

90% of the crime comes from 1 or 2% of the population not just here but everywhere.

The major change that drives all these problems is the collapse of the Black family from having a majority intact with fathers in the home to 70-80% single mothers. We have subsidized vicious bastards for fifty years.

Nothing I have said comes from arrogance.


24 posted on 08/10/2011 11:01:34 AM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob

The fact is socialized schooling is an entitlement program bigger than Medicare and at least as big as Social Security. The arguments for socialized schooling are the same as the arguments for socialized medicine. They are equally as bogus too.

People who put their kids in the socialized school system are having their lifestyles subsidized by others. They are feeding at the public trough. Most don’t like to have that pointed out, but facts are facts.

We need to do away with socialized schooling and replace it with a capitalist system.


25 posted on 08/10/2011 11:13:26 AM PDT by SUSSA
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To: Recovering_Democrat

bfl


26 posted on 08/10/2011 12:40:23 PM PDT by tutstar
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To: Joe Brower

big nanny Florida possibility


27 posted on 08/10/2011 12:41:05 PM PDT by tutstar
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To: arrogantsob

I attempted to say why my granddaughters are now homeschooled.....because of their fears... which you seem to believe are overblown... and not happening in the better schools. That is simply not the case. There school system is one of the best in the area and why it was selected when the family moved here. Yet still the episodes happen where teachers do not intervene and the school is un-co-perative with parents....and that is not the only school.

My son and daughter in law did not make there decision lightly and since they are good parents they certainly thought this through...as most parents do who choose to homeschool their kids. They determined their kids will not be subjected to how the schools are run...nor the lack of intervention when needed....nor put them in an unsafe environment. The tensions and happenings which are neither overblown nor looked at as such are all to frequent and increasingly so. How many schools have had to be locked down for bomb threats...shooters within the schools etc.?
This did not happen fifty years ago.


28 posted on 08/10/2011 3:15:38 PM PDT by caww
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To: arrogantsob

Principle found dead (in pool of blood) at school. Just posted in Breaking news.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2761845/posts


29 posted on 08/10/2011 3:22:43 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

People have the right to fear whatever they wish, there is an infinite selection to choose from.

I would never question the love and regard for their children that home schooling parents have. It is of note, however, that those who do not make that choice should also be given the same respect. They also love their children.

I also believe that views of schools around here are not accurate, mainly because the sensational story gets play all over the nation while the normal, everyday, mundane functioning of schools is ignored.

There are plenty of legitimate complaints to be made no doubt.


30 posted on 08/10/2011 4:34:59 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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A Little Housekeeping at FR!


This is DAY 41 of the FReepathon! Please End it!
DONATE

31 posted on 08/10/2011 4:53:35 PM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: SUSSA

Having a workforce capable of reading benefits the entire society. Not limiting access because of affordability is also valuable to a society as a whole.

The benefits outweigh the entitlement aspect. State constitutions mandate a state interest and responsibility for education precisely because their writers understood that societies were better off with an educated public than otherwise. This came from their own experiences.

Economies of scale also come into play to lower the costs per pupil into an affordable range. Education is very costly even so.

Most of the problems with education in this country comes from parents who either pay no attention to what is happening, don’t care or are just too busy making a living to get involved.


32 posted on 08/10/2011 4:58:52 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob
“Government schools are run by people who think they care about the children. But present a schoolteacher or administrator with the bill for a single semester of college tuition, and see how fast they backpedal from any thought of actually being committed to that child.”
Is this supposed to mean something?
The intended meaning is blindingly obvious - any parent worthy of the name is far more involved with each of his/her children than any teacher not related to a child in his/her class can be with the children in his/her charge. In school, the children come and go, replaced by others who do the same. In the home, they come and stay, in the hearts of his/her parents, for the remainder of the parents' lifetime.
A child must have someone who is crazy about him/her. A mother is only as happy as her least successful child. A teacher is a pale substitute for a parent in that respect.

33 posted on 08/10/2011 4:59:23 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (DRAFT PALIN)
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To: caww

Thread was pulled.


34 posted on 08/10/2011 5:05:50 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion

I appreciate your clarification. Certainly parents generally care more about their children than any teacher no matter how loving.

Unfortunately, it is also too true that there are situations where the teachers are a better and more loving caretaker than some of these Welfare parents many of whom of addled by drugs, shacked up with creeps or incapable of doing anything but giving birth.

Nothing beats a loving two-parent family but that is becoming a rarity within the Black community and less standard within the others.

“...any parent worthy of the name...” NOW you nail it down. There are too many parents who are NOT worthy of the name as with the little girl of the article. This is why I am an advocate of orphanages. Too many of these people view a child as just a means of getting state funds.


35 posted on 08/10/2011 5:13:18 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob
As I said the arguments fo socialized schooling are the same as for socialized medicine. You are making my point.

Having a workforce capable of reading benefits the entire society. Not limiting access because of affordability is also valuable to a society as a whole.

Having a healthy workforce benefits the entire society. Not limiting access because of affordability is also valuable to a society as a whole.

The benefits outweigh the entitlement aspect. ... understood that societies were better off with an educated public than otherwise. This came from their own experiences.

The benefits of a healthy society outweigh the entitlement aspect. ... Other countries understood that societies were better off with a healthy public than otherwise. This came from their own experiences.

Economies of scale also come into play to lower the costs per pupil into an affordable range. Education is very costly even so.

Economies of scale also come into play to lower the costs per patient into an affordable range. Health care is very costly even so.

#

Progressives have been spewing these excuses since the 1850s and have sold them to far too many people. They are no more valid for socialized schooling than they are for socialized medicine.

36 posted on 08/10/2011 6:35:50 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: arrogantsob

When I was in middle school, I was in a fight and a knife was pulled on me. I was in a fight with an 8th grade boy that was taller and bigger than my father (who is not a small man). I was fondled everyday of school by a group of boys that blocked the hallway to the lockers and it was ignored by the teachers. Drug and alcohol abuse at school was rampant. And to top it all off, this was still a time when you could get paddled for chewing gum in class. You are naive if you think fears of public schools are overblown.


37 posted on 08/10/2011 7:33:16 PM PDT by christianhomeschoolmommaof3
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
any parent worthy of the name is far more involved with each of his/her children than any teacher not related to a child in his/her class can be with the children in his/her charge.

I agree and thank you for your post.

I have heard arguements from both parents and teachers as to the performance or not of children in the school systems. But I will say this. Even a child who does not have their parents involvement can perform when another adult encourages them or becomes involved with their life...and I'm not referring to the teachers... They will learn from that person and can overcome the lack of parental involvement...though perhaps not as well. This would depend on many factors but it's possible.

38 posted on 08/10/2011 7:41:15 PM PDT by caww
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To: christianhomeschoolmommaof3

Thank you for your post.

The stories my grand-daughters have shared would curl anyones hair. ...and their school was supposedly one of the best. But the environment was something else altogether we would learn. Kids can and do know how to outwit the teachers...they know even what teachers will turn their heads as well as those who won’t and all in between.

I know one father whose daughter was being touched on the school bus. He went to the school ..and thru the nonsense about proof etc. When there was nothing forthcoming from the school the father took matters into his own hands....

...he knew the bus route and where the kid got off....along a rural road. He waited for him... after the bus drove away, let’s just say he put the fear of God in the kid...up front and personal. Told the kid if he ever said a word to anyone they’d be picking him up off the road when they found him. The kid never touched his daughter again.

Point is the school would not do a thing in addressing this kid....no proof.


39 posted on 08/10/2011 7:55:36 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww
You are welcome. The things I posted were things that I was personally involved in. I know of things that happened to other students as well. There was sex in the bathrooms/auditorium and this was 6th, 7th and 8th grade.
40 posted on 08/10/2011 8:15:48 PM PDT by christianhomeschoolmommaof3
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To: metmom; Abathar; Abcdefg; Abram; Abundy; albertp; Alexander Rubin; Allosaurs_r_us; amchugh; ...



Libertarian ping! Click here to get added or here to be removed or post a message here!

41 posted on 08/10/2011 10:03:54 PM PDT by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: Recovering_Democrat

l would really like to see a statistical comparison of violent crimes committed in home school versus public school settings.

This is as legitimate as TSA screening or DHS profiling of indeed any other government excess in this social welfare police state.


42 posted on 08/11/2011 6:14:19 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: metmom
And what about the public school kids who die at the hands of their public school parents are molested by their perverted public school teachers?

I think that any time a grand jury makes a recommendation which will have the tendency to expose more children to hazards like THAT, we need to reexamine the grand jury system and the members of this particular GJ. It's for the cheeeeeelrun!

43 posted on 08/11/2011 8:20:56 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: caww; Tax-chick; upchuck
Principle found dead (in pool of blood) at school.

The times we live in ARE tough on principles. What did the principal say about this?

44 posted on 08/11/2011 8:30:13 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Still Thinking; Jaded; Ryan Spock; upchuck; TheMom; TChris; Xenalyte; Semper Vigilantis; ...
Principle found dead (in pool of blood) at school.

If it were a modern-art-statement sort of thing, it would be rather clever. Or if it were a participle, dead in a pool of blood ... although dangling from the ceiling would be more apropos, for a participle ...

45 posted on 08/11/2011 8:39:36 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Do you know why I love reptiles? It's because they don't play guitars.)
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To: Tax-chick

LOL!


46 posted on 08/11/2011 8:53:11 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Recovering_Democrat

I’m not surprised by this. Heck the voters gave pigs constitutional rights, so what would prevent ANY other over reach?


47 posted on 08/11/2011 9:08:37 AM PDT by CSM (Keeper of the "Dave Ramsey Fan" ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: Tax-chick

How about a split infinitive?

One of the worst things up with which we have to put ... ;oP


48 posted on 08/11/2011 9:43:28 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Non plaudite. Modo pecuniam jacite." - - Don't applaud. ....Just throw money)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Split infinitives are like split ends: no matter what the ads say, nothing repairs them. All you can do is cut them off.

In many languages, the infinitive form is a single word, so asplit it is unable to be.


49 posted on 08/11/2011 9:49:05 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Do you know why I love reptiles? It's because they don't play guitars.)
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To: Tax-chick

That just goes to show, you should never go swimming alone.


50 posted on 08/11/2011 10:05:59 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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