Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

In All Seriousness, What If Barack Obama Is Right? (Redstate.com)
RedState.com ^ | August 8, 2011 | Erik Erikson

Posted on 08/09/2011 9:29:38 PM PDT by lbryce

Seriously. All you people on left and right, suspend your disbelief for one minute. Seriously.

What if Barack Obama was right and S&P just got it wrong.

Here’s what I’m hearing and it gives credence to this theory.

S&P, I’m told, began telling some of its clients about the downgrade on Friday morning. That’s why the market was so screwed up on Friday.

By Friday afternoon, the Treasury Department told S&P it had made a $2 trillion math mistake.

But S&P had already told its clients about the downgrade. So it couldn’t walk it back now without a major loss of confidence in its credibility. Could you imagine that conversation? “Hey . . . um . . . Joe. Yeah, Charlie here from S&P. So . . .um . . . we made a $2 trillion math mistake in our downgrade analysis. . . . What’s that? You just lost $500 million in the market because of it? Oh . . . um . . . sorry Joe. Better luck next time.”

So it had to come up with a different reason.

It’s reason? Acrimony in Washington — in other words, nothing to do with the U.S.A.’s ability to pay its debts or financial issues, just typical Washington politics. And it couched its statement in such a way that the tea party movement could say, “see, see, we told you Washington needed more cuts,” and the left could say, “see, see, we told you we needed tax increases.”

Acrimony in Washington is nothing new. Despite a lot of rhetoric about compromise this past week, it is a feature, not a bug, of the American system of government. And major debt and growing deficits are nothing new. And they are bipartisan, pre-existing, long term, and long existing problems.

(Excerpt) Read more at redstate.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Extended News; Government
KEYWORDS: creditagencies; economy; officers; planners; sp; teachers
Now, to put my partisan hat back on — if the White House is right and this is what happened, why the hell is David Axelrod out blaming the Tea Party Movement, a movement that at best has the support of a few dozen members of the United States House of Representatives and has only seen those members in office for six months?

That’s as irresponsible as S&P, and it also does not compute if S&P is the one that screwed up.

* By the way, to lend further credence to the idea that maybe the White House economic team is right and S&P screwed up, where did investor cash flee to during the market collapse of Friday and now, it seems, again today? Why U.S. Treasuries of course. ======================================================================================
Does put things (somewhat) in perspective (in reference to my previous post.)
FR:August 9, 2011-
Richard Koo: The Ratings Agencies May Destroy The Global Economy Once Again
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2761409/posts

1 posted on 08/09/2011 9:29:44 PM PDT by lbryce
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: lbryce

...


2 posted on 08/09/2011 9:32:52 PM PDT by ThomasThomas ( Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we can identify their corporate sponsors.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

They’ve been warning for months that it was coming if the US government didn’t do something about the deficit spending.

Mistake or not, we’ve been at the edge for some time now.


3 posted on 08/09/2011 9:32:56 PM PDT by DB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

Given we create our own money to prop up the stock market, what is the basis for claiming the US wont be able to pay it’s debts, some of which is to the Federal Reserve? I am sure S+P doesnt have a clue.


4 posted on 08/09/2011 9:34:07 PM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce
In All Seriousness, What If Barack Obama Is Right? (Redstate.com)

In all seriousness, we know he is wrong.

5 posted on 08/09/2011 9:35:02 PM PDT by doc1019 (You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

I don’t believe anything that comes out of the mouth of zero. After all, everytime he moves his lips, he lies.

I’m just sayin.....


6 posted on 08/09/2011 9:36:27 PM PDT by Kevin in California
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

They said that it would require cuts of $4 trillion to maintain the credit rating. The $2 trillion “mistake” is the government’s: counting a promise to reduce the rate of increase sometime during someone elses term as real cuts.


7 posted on 08/09/2011 9:38:22 PM PDT by Ingtar (Together we go broke (from a Pookie18 post))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

A two trillion dollar accounting error? Yeah, ok..
*rolls eyes*


8 posted on 08/09/2011 9:39:43 PM PDT by cardinal4 (Sauron/Saruman 2012; it couldn't be any worse..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

It’s the spending, stupid!


9 posted on 08/09/2011 9:42:13 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is brewing!! Impeach the corrupt Marxist bastard!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

The reason I think this story is nonsense:

S&P is now downgrading muni’s.

I doubt they would do that without a better reason than there is a split of opinion in DC.


10 posted on 08/09/2011 9:46:30 PM PDT by old curmudgeon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

S&P Motives?

The owner of S&P is McGraw Hill.

Note this:

Pre-Marketing: S&P for sale?

http://www.businessbrokerjournal.com/blog/pre-marketing-sp-for-sale

“Big breakup? Activists put pressure on S&P owner McGraw Hill “


11 posted on 08/09/2011 9:47:31 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kevin in California

Broke clock right twice, maybe? Although I agree with you about the chronic lying.


12 posted on 08/09/2011 9:47:48 PM PDT by MonicaG (God bless our military! Praying and thanking God for you every day. Thank you!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: lbryce
Let's take the story as a given that S&P screwed up, and they're two trillion off. At a present spending rate, they're just 15 months off. So they're just slightly ahead of the curve and will look like geniuses when the other services make the same computations, just before the fall elections.

Why is Axelrod blaming the tea party? Because that was the plan when this October surprise landed and the S&P downgraded US debt. Because if you shift us over just a bit, like 15 months, we're right before the November elections. And the last defense of this White House as ALWAYS been to blame someone else for their mess. It's Bush's fault, it's the Tea Party's fault, it's martians who did it...

I sure hope that Obama is making sure his people know the birthdays of every senior analyst at S&P and buying them really really nice birthday presents (like a DVD collection from Europe?) for this very generous gift. Because the downgrade’s not happening right before the November elections, it's happening well over a year before, and gosh, no where near when people are heading to the ballot boxes.

What a present the S&P gave Obama by spilling the beans a little early.

13 posted on 08/09/2011 9:48:51 PM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

In All Seriousness, what if Erik Erikson bought a spin?


14 posted on 08/09/2011 9:49:02 PM PDT by Carismar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

Pardon my naivete but wouldn’t divulging a not yet public rating change, and more importantly, trading on that knowledge be a violation of securities laws?


15 posted on 08/09/2011 9:49:05 PM PDT by JrsyJack (a healthy dose of buckshot will probably get you the last word in any argument.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce
The two trillion dollar 'error' was the White House's Infra-Rose colored glasses view of how much money his Keynsen Economic Plan is going to provide the American coffers.

In other words, there is no 'two trillion dollars'. It's a projection, based off of rainbow-and-sunshine flavored unicorn flatulence from the White House. That money doesn't exist, and it's money that we have no reason to believe will exist. It's a lie. They can pout and whine and demand we believe them, but they can't produce any numbers to prove it.

It's fantasy math. It's like arguing with your bank that you're really a billionaire, but they lose your last deposit of 1 billion dollars and they're the ones being unfair for not changing their accounting practices. You can wave your crayon scribbled napkin and call it a deposit slip, but no one will believe you.

16 posted on 08/09/2011 9:49:16 PM PDT by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

Ask yourself...do we deserve to be downgraded, given our current condition & no plan to fix it? Common sense is so uncommon these days that folks never stop to see what’s obviously right before their very eyes.

Sigh....it’s all part of the strong delusion.


17 posted on 08/09/2011 9:49:25 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ingtar

I still can’t believe the stock market has done as well as it has. The only reason I can find is the excess liquidity pushed into the market by the Fed/Treasury. It surely can’t be business taking loans and spending money!

Despite the economic measurables pointing to stocks being a good buy the fact remains that the entire foundation of our nation and country is wobbling badly. All this rating agency did was point out the obvious.... nothing is changing. Bush (yes, he did) spent too much. Obama has spent twice as much as Bush. A good start would have been for Congress to push spending back to past numbers before the hyperspending by the government.

They could not do it. The debt crisis and deal proved it.


18 posted on 08/09/2011 9:52:05 PM PDT by volunbeer (Keep the dope, we'll make the change in 2012!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

Well Obama is right about S&P, but in the wrong way.

The downgrade of US debt should have come much earlier, and been much more severe.

And further still, prescient rating services would have downgraded the US immediately after the Marxist was elected in November of 2008


19 posted on 08/09/2011 9:52:36 PM PDT by EyeGuy (2012: When the Levee Breaks)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

Marvel Comics used to do this every month. My favorite was, “What if Uncle Ben didn’t die?”


20 posted on 08/09/2011 9:53:35 PM PDT by redpoll
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce
In All Seriousness, What If Barack Obama Is Right?

First time for everything umm my ears still ring. Chug-a-lug Chug-a-lug. Make u wanna holla hidy hoe, Burns your tummy don't you know. Chug-a-lug chug-a-lug

21 posted on 08/09/2011 9:56:05 PM PDT by steelyourfaith (If it's "green" ... it's crap !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

Actually S & P got it wrong.. America should be downgraded much lower..
Heck we have a Marxist President.. trying to dismantle our whole system..


22 posted on 08/09/2011 9:57:47 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce
.

Misplaced a decimal point?

.

23 posted on 08/09/2011 9:59:25 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Just once I'd like someone to call me 'Sir' without adding 'You're making a scene.' - Homer Simpson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DB

Yep, credit agencies or not, we are staring into the financial abyss. The downgrades are LONG overdue.


24 posted on 08/09/2011 10:04:07 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: lbryce
"What If Barack Obama Is Right? "

neither he, nor any one in his administration has been right about anything yet. This would be a long shot. I'm guessing Vegas odds makers would give it little hope.

25 posted on 08/09/2011 10:06:56 PM PDT by Baynative (If the government was in charge of the desert , we'd soon have a shortage of sand.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JrsyJack
Pardon my naivete but wouldn’t divulging a not yet public rating change, and more importantly, trading on that knowledge be a violation of securities laws?

Yes, it would be a felony.

26 posted on 08/09/2011 10:09:13 PM PDT by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Mud Man, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist. THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: lbryce
For starters, why in the heck did S&P send their downgrade to the White Hut for peer review ?

Also, they were the third down grader.

Which Rating Agency Downgraded the U.S. First? Not S&P

27 posted on 08/09/2011 10:10:04 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ThomasThomas

Moody’s and Fitch have been warning also. Is that part of the conspiracy?


28 posted on 08/09/2011 10:13:11 PM PDT by Lurkina.n.Learnin ("Credit is the ruination of a nation")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

That’s demented. Thieving preverts cannot hide the depths to which the debt regime has sunk. The longer the delusional dependents of outrageously high government incomes and pensions cling to it, the more dangerous the environment will be for them after repudiation.


29 posted on 08/09/2011 10:35:55 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in a noisy avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Steel Wolf
LOL! This has to be the post of the week.

Thank you for taking a depressing situation and injecting some very much needed humor into it.

Crayon scribbled napkin....love it!

30 posted on 08/09/2011 10:39:37 PM PDT by TheWriterTX (Buy Ammo Often,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: lbryce
if the White House is right and this is what happened, why the hell is David Axelrod out blaming the Tea Party Movement.

And you wonder why they are called RATs?

31 posted on 08/09/2011 10:52:50 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Obama get our AAA back.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JrsyJack
...The fact that trading is all done electronically and in nano-seconds, it's possible to buy short, wait for a profit and sell a second before a fall. Of course, a bit of inside info is a plus...

...Then again, I could be dead wrong...

32 posted on 08/09/2011 10:59:33 PM PDT by gargoyle (...This looks like a good fight, deal me in...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: volunbeer
The only reason I can find is the excess liquidity pushed into the market by the Fed/Treasury.

Bingo! This is what I've been saying. The stock market is nothing but a parking place for money. Did you note how the DOW followed the Euro in this latest oscillation? I admit that it is not always proportional, but the DOW will not go up without a rise in the Euro against the dollar. The whole thing is so disconnected from any sort of quotidian idea of "economics" that it's downright scary.

33 posted on 08/09/2011 11:01:12 PM PDT by dr_lew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

In all seriousness, you must be joking.


34 posted on 08/09/2011 11:06:20 PM PDT by This Just In
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

The US should have been downgraded two years ago. The math in out years really doesn’t matter—the problem is so bad now that a 2 trillion dollar error doesn’t make a difference. Give Obama the 2 trillion. We still have a huge debt problem.

BTW, S&P downgraded a bunch of Muni’s today based on it’s downgrade of the Feds. This was after they knew about Zero’s two trillion dollar claim.


35 posted on 08/09/2011 11:43:41 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

Fact is the US debt is about 94% of GDP. Therefore, by definition really, downgrade is a given. Case closed.


36 posted on 08/09/2011 11:45:11 PM PDT by C210N (0bama, Making the US safe for Global Marxism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce
I just got the latest "Trend Alert" from Gerald Celente earlier tonight.

Here's an excerpt from what it stated.

In forecasting the collapse well in advance, Celente provided an accurate timeline and supported his conclusions with quantifiable data and in-depth analysis. However, now that the collapse is underway, history is already being brazenly reengineered, right in front of our eyes. Blaming the S&P downgrade for triggering the global sell-off/financial panic – as the majority of pundits are doing – is as bogus as blaming the onset of World War I on the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. The downgrade was no more than the proverbial last straw that broke the nation’s financial back.

True to form, the economic propaganda mill is churning at full speed and the media coverage is mostly “bull.” Tune into any business show, pick up any newspaper and what you will get is the economic equivalent of the notorious 9/11 advice from the authorities as people fled the World Trade Center: “Go back to your offices, the fire in the North Tower is under control.”

So now, with some $8 trillion of equity destroyed in just a few days, the authoritative counsel is: “The market is oversold. Get back in. It’s a buying opportunity.”

37 posted on 08/09/2011 11:52:11 PM PDT by VideoDoctor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

I heard it wasn’t a math mistake. S&P used 5% for the inflation rate and the White House wanted them to use 2.5%. So the “mistake” amounted to S&P following their rules and not the White House rules.


38 posted on 08/10/2011 12:01:56 AM PDT by abigailsmybaby ("To understan' the livin', you gotta commune wit' da dead." Minerva)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

Here’s a link to the article...

http://m.foxbusiness.com/quickPage.html?page=32811&content=54687209&pageNum=-1


39 posted on 08/10/2011 12:18:55 AM PDT by abigailsmybaby ("To understan' the livin', you gotta commune wit' da dead." Minerva)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

Well, I’m sure if this downgrade had occurred when George W. Gush was in the White House, I’m sure NO Democrat would be saying that the S&P downgrade didn’t matter. ;o)


40 posted on 08/10/2011 1:04:24 AM PDT by SuziQ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce
S&P, I’m told, began telling some of its clients about the downgrade on Friday morning.

It seems to me that if that happened it would constitute something criminal, something akin to insider trading. If some of S&P's "clients" had that kind of information and others did not, some people would be really, really upset. Really, really, really, REALLY upset.

And Eric Holder would be on this like a fly on a turd.
Sorry. No sale on this story.

41 posted on 08/10/2011 1:14:02 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil

Isn’t Moody’s owned by Warren Buffet?


42 posted on 08/10/2011 1:15:42 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

That $2 trillion math mistake is what Obama has made.

And added to our debt - but denies.

Everyone sees that 2T but him.


43 posted on 08/10/2011 1:16:32 AM PDT by NoLibZone (Life as Nancy Pelosi knows & wants it, must end, Life As Nancy Knows it is to raise Debt 10% annualy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil
Why yes, Warren Buffet IS an owner of Moody's:

Moody's was founded in 1909 by John Moody. Top institutional owners of Moody's include Berkshire Hathaway and Davis Selected Advisers.

44 posted on 08/10/2011 1:18:36 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

In all seriousness this may be the best thing that has happened to the US since the election of that America hater.


45 posted on 08/10/2011 1:39:44 AM PDT by dervish (out of Afghanistan NOW)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks lbryce.
What if Barack Obama was right and S&P just got it wrong.

46 posted on 08/10/2011 3:59:22 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: ThomasThomas

We are upteen trillion dollars in debt, with no relief in site. How could we have not been downgraded. I’m with Rick Santelli when he said that if it hadn’t of been for the tea party we’d be at BBB rating.


47 posted on 08/10/2011 4:03:40 AM PDT by catfish1957 (Hey algore...You'll have to pry the steering wheel of my 317 HP V8 truck from my cold dead hands)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: lbryce

There are ten rating agencies. The most independent is Egan-Jones which down-rated the Zero government two weeks before the S&P did.


48 posted on 08/10/2011 4:15:14 AM PDT by Malesherbes (- Sauve qui peut)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lbryce
In the run up to the vote on the new budget, I never ONCE heard anyone say that we were facing a downgrade because of acrimony between the parties, or gridlock. It was always the debt limit needs to be raised, or we'll default, and be downgraded by the ratings agencies.

All this 'acrimony' silliness is after the fact, and because the Democrats want blame everyone but themselves for the mess they've caused since they were in charge of the House (which passes budgets) from 2006, then the whole shebang from 2008, on, until Nov. of 2010. They'll be out of the majorities in Congress and out of the White House as well, in Jan. of 2013!

49 posted on 08/10/2011 10:44:13 PM PDT by SuziQ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson