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China's first aircraft carrier starts sea trial: Xinhua
AFP via Breitbart ^ | 9 August 2011 | Unknown

Posted on 08/10/2011 9:09:25 AM PDT by LSUfan

China's first aircraft carrier on Wednesday left its shipyard in the country's northeast to start its first sea trial, the state news agency Xinhua said. The revamped old Soviet ship's sea trial was in line with the schedule of its refitting project and would not take long, the news agency said, quoting military sources.

After returning from the trial, the carrier will continue its refit and test work, the report said, adding that the vessel had set sail from its shipyard in the city of Dalian.

Beijing last month sought to downplay the capability of its first aircraft carrier, saying the vessel would be used for training and "research", amid concerns over the country's military build-up.

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: chicoms; china; navy; redchina

1 posted on 08/10/2011 9:09:28 AM PDT by LSUfan
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To: LSUfan

I pray this thing is the POS I think it is.

About our only hope left is that we can stop china from projecting power into this hemisphere

India should have 3 carriers up and running soon.
We cant trust them but they can hold china at bay if all goes well.


2 posted on 08/10/2011 9:13:08 AM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: LSUfan

3 posted on 08/10/2011 9:13:34 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: LSUfan
"China's first aircraft carrier, the former Soviet carrier Varyag"

When does it start leaking radiation?

4 posted on 08/10/2011 9:14:57 AM PDT by americanophile ("this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives" - Ataturk)
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To: sam_paine

It looks like a major POS, but dont discount the chinese.

Remember, the missile that smoked Israels flag ship off Lebanon was made in China


5 posted on 08/10/2011 9:17:20 AM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: americanophile

It isn’t a CVN. Might leak oil, though.


6 posted on 08/10/2011 9:17:52 AM PDT by Little Ray (Best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: LSUfan

This flattop will serve the Chicoms well as a training ship. It will get them accustomed to conducting carrier ops, which they will then be able to apply when they buy a bunch of our Nimitz class ships at 0bama’s “American Military Going Out of Business Sale.”

Come on down! Prices slashed so low on high-quality military hardware you’ll think we’re crazy! Everything must go!


7 posted on 08/10/2011 9:19:18 AM PDT by henkster (The Federal Reserve is the enabling housewife to an alcoholic husband.)
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To: mylife

Didn’t sink it. It detonated short of the ship and did damage.
Another one missed completely and got a freighter.


8 posted on 08/10/2011 9:19:55 AM PDT by Little Ray (Best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: mylife

I hate incomplete sentences.

“About our only hope left is that we can stop china from projecting power into this hemisphere...UNTIL WE ARE RID OF OBOZO AND HIS WRECKING CREW IN 2013.”

There, I fixed it!


9 posted on 08/10/2011 9:19:55 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (The 2012 election is coming. Seems we have MORE TRASH TO REMOVE!)
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To: americanophile

It didnt have engines when Russia sold it.

It could be running on rice for all we know.


10 posted on 08/10/2011 9:20:57 AM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: Little Ray

That’s not the way I recall it going down, but I could be wrong.

IMHO the chinese SUCK. but they copy shit well and they sure know how to whip up nationalism.


11 posted on 08/10/2011 9:24:02 AM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: mylife

Well, we’ll find out soon enough!

Personally, I’m sort of surprised they’re going with manned aircraft and CVs and not leapfrogging us to go for UCAVs and their support vessels.


12 posted on 08/10/2011 9:44:42 AM PDT by Little Ray (Best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: LSUfan
Beijing last month sought to downplay the capability of its first aircraft carrier, saying the vessel would be used for training and "research", amid concerns over the country's military build-up.

The Langley wasn't much of a ship, but the experience gained on her meant that the following Lexington and Yorktown classes were some of the best pre war carriers in the world. China is showing patience and intelligence by starting cheap (purchased and refit a hulk rather than building from scratch) to gain experience. Once they have that experience they can design a ship that fills the needs of their fleet.

I would much rather prefer an enemy, like Iran, who wastes money and effort in over the top propaganda driven expenditures that never actually work. China scares me because they are taking their time and doing everything low key. They have money, patience, and manufacturing power. Worst of all it appears they have a plan.
13 posted on 08/10/2011 9:46:11 AM PDT by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: LSUfan

Like Bill Whittle said on PJTV, [naval aviation] it ain’t as easy as it looks. Only two nations, the US and Japan, ever did naval aviation right. And it’s not just the carrier; there’s a whole support system of AWACS, choppers, defense, tankers, repair ships, frigates, and anti-submarine force that needs to be deployed along with the carrier. Took us decades to get it right. China probably doesn’t know what they’re doing.


14 posted on 08/10/2011 10:07:35 AM PDT by Clock King (Ellisworth Toohey was right: My head's gonna explode.)
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To: GonzoGOP

The Chinese lied about this carrier when they bought it from the Ukraine. There was a clause in the purchase contract that clearly stated that they were NOT to use this ship for military purposes. In fact the Chinese claimed they were going to make a floating casino out of it. Just saying.


15 posted on 08/10/2011 10:15:01 AM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: Clock King
"...China probably doesn’t know what they’re doing."

You got that right. If you notice the deck of this carrier of theirs there is no non-slip coating like on American carriers. This means spilled fuel and other fluids from handling aircraft on the deck will make that deck a very dangerous place. This should prove interesting.
16 posted on 08/10/2011 10:21:22 AM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: LSUfan

One thing that China AND Russia have NEVER been able to counteract is CORROSIAN! That will EAT their ships and Airplanes ALIVE! Give ‘em about 5 years and the a/c will start falling out of the air.


17 posted on 08/10/2011 10:27:53 AM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: US Navy Vet

Isn’t corrosion more a problem of MAINTENANCE?


18 posted on 08/10/2011 10:30:18 AM PDT by tcrlaf (PREFRONTAL LOBOTOMISTS FOR OBAMA2012!)
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To: Little Ray

Especially if a US made torpedo breaches her hull.


19 posted on 08/10/2011 10:31:26 AM PDT by NCC-1701 (In Memphis on January 20, 2009, pump price were $1.49. We all know what happened after that.)
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To: Rooivalk

I think that was a different carrier.


20 posted on 08/10/2011 10:34:25 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: tcrlaf

Yes but it(corrosian) is a “every day” and an “every hour of every day” BATTLE in a maritime environment. I am not sure that the Russians or Chinese are up to the task(especially naval a/c Maint).


21 posted on 08/10/2011 10:45:31 AM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: Clock King

The Brits USED to do Naval Aviation “right” but successive “Labour” Govt and WEAK “Conservative” Govs have destroyed the Royal Navy(AND RAF)(AND Brit Army)!


22 posted on 08/10/2011 10:48:46 AM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: Rooivalk
The Chinese lied about this carrier when they bought it from the Ukraine. There was a clause in the purchase contract that clearly stated that they were NOT to use this ship for military purposes.

Of course they lied. Sun Tzu wrote the book on China, centuries before it was even called China.
"All warfare is based on deception."
Sun Tzu

"Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate."
Sun Tzu
23 posted on 08/10/2011 10:59:32 AM PDT by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: mylife
It could be running on rice for all we know.

Might be. The original engines ran on vodka ;) yoke, yoke, yoke....

24 posted on 08/10/2011 11:05:49 AM PDT by ponder life
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To: Jeff Head

FYI


25 posted on 08/10/2011 11:12:09 AM PDT by Stonewall Jackson (Democrats: "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.")
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To: Rooivalk
"...China probably doesn’t know what they’re doing."

You got that right. If you notice the deck of this carrier of theirs there is no non-slip coating like on American carriers.

What stupit Chinamen.

Except you're wrong. It does have a non slip surface.


26 posted on 08/10/2011 11:16:29 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (New gets old. Steampunk is always cool)
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To: Stonewall Jackson
YThanks Stonewall. As I said on the thread from yesterday about this, both of my sites about this carrier have already been updated with the info about her setting sail on trials when the info broke nearly yesterday.

It's a day that has been coming for a number of years as they have refitted the old Varyag. Now she's out to sea.

They have developed an effective strike fighter for her too...a modernized, updated version of the russina SU-33 called the J-15. It will take them years to become effective in carrier operations, particularly air operations...but they are jumping in with both feet with this carrier, and the two more they are already building simultaneously at Shanghai.

it is creating a naval arms raise in the Western Pacific as the Indians, Japanese, Australians, and Korea all scramble to devlop their own carrier type vessels. The Chinese beat the Indians in launching this one as the Indans are refitting another old Russian Carrier and building two of their own.


CHINESE AIRCRAFT CARRIER ON WORLD-WIDE AIRCRAFT CARRIER.COM



THE HISTORY OF THE VARYAG TRANSFORMATION INTO AN OPERATIONAL PLAN CARRIER

27 posted on 08/10/2011 12:59:13 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Liberty is not free. Never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Oztrich Boy
That picture you posted was an early one taken when the Varyag was towed to that yard for refitting by the Chinese.

You will notice the lack of markings painted on the flightdeck

If you compare the pictures you posted to the ones taken about a week ago you will see painted markings and the deck shining after a sudden rainstorm. That shine clearly indicates a painted steel deck, And a painted deck is just ripe for accidents when planes are landing or taxiing on the deck.

Further compare the Chinese carrier deck to an American carrier deck and you will notice the darker color of the non-skid coating of the American carrier to the painted steel deck on the Chinese carrier
This lack of non-skid coating on the flight deck has been a heated topic of discussion on the Chinese military boards. Check the boards for yourself to access the discussions
28 posted on 08/10/2011 4:51:33 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: Jeff Head

On their carrier the Russians used a strange system of chocks that popped up from the deck to restrain their Su-33s as the aircraft built up thrust for take-off. Do you have any information or indication that the Chinese will adopt the same system?


29 posted on 08/10/2011 5:00:59 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: Jeff Head
it is creating a naval arms raise in the Western Pacific as the Indians, Japanese, Australians, and Korea all scramble to devlop their own carrier type vessels.

I'll be the first to claim (and it appears the only one willing to on the FR) that I have little expertise on military matters. But one claim I feel I can make without even studying it, is that the listed nations above, except Australia, have very limited military capabilities COMMENSURATE with its population. In other words, if there is an arms race in Asia, I doubt very much they will throw the full weight of their economy behind it like the former USSR, North Korea, Iraq, etc. But instead, will likely continue to build towards something equivalent to their Western counter parts. And in that area, there is a long ways to go if it is even achieved.

China would have to have 50 Nimitz carriers to be proportional to the US in population. China may have that ability someday, but even if she did, I doubt she would build 50.

And same with India, proportionally speaking, it would be like them having 40 Nimitz carriers. But that definitely isn't going to happen.

And South Korea would have to have something on par or near parity with Britain and France. And Japan would need about 5 Nimtz carriers for something commensurate with the US.

So, in reality, China may cause an arms race, but I really doubt its going to raise their capabilities even to the level of Western standards commensurate with their population.

However, the Emirates, Saudi Arabia both have militries beyond Western capabilities commensurate with their population. I read, that Saudi Arabia, with half the population of Britain, has more 4th generation jet fighters than Britain.

An arms race in Asia? It may look like it, but the hard numbers in relation to their population will prove otherwise. Really, check the numbers and you will see that I am right. Compare quanity of Western equipment with population, with Western Pacific nations, with Middle Eastern nations. You'll find that the Middle East has more of an arms race going. AND GUESS WHAT??!! They're all supplied by Western defense industries :)

China is planning on dropping her active duty personnel from 2.5 million to 2 million soon. That would be like Canada having 60,000 active military personnel. But she has roughly 67,000. And I'm sure, I could make the same arguement in regards to 4th generation fighters, not just for China, but for the rest of the Asian countries. And of course, a country like Saudi Arabia would be on the other end of the spectrum.

So, arms race in the Wester Pacific? Maybe, but hardly something to be concerned with.

30 posted on 08/10/2011 5:05:00 PM PDT by ponder life
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To: AppyPappy

The two carriers the Chinese first purchased from the Russians were the Minsk and the Kiev. Those two were turned into floating amusements. This carrier the Chinese purchased, the Varyag was supposed to follow the same path, but the Chinese flipped the script


31 posted on 08/10/2011 5:09:42 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: ponder life

You may not think a Chinese sponsored arms race is something to be concerned with but India, Vietnam and the Philippines would differ with you on that point. Check out China’s claims on the oil rights of the South China Sea. They are saying that the whole thing is a Chinese lake.


32 posted on 08/10/2011 5:14:04 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: LSUfan

Courtesy of their espionage and outright treason here.

Hopefully it is named the War-Malt and runs just as well as the crap sold there.


33 posted on 08/10/2011 5:16:34 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: henkster
“American Military Going Out of Business Sale.”

Hey, when that happens, do you think I might be able to buy the Kitty Hawk? I have a personal attachment to that ship.

34 posted on 08/10/2011 5:19:39 PM PDT by CougarGA7
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To: Rooivalk
I'm familar with the dispute in the South China Seas. But still, I do not see budgets that would put their militaries on par with their Western counter parts. Really, look at the numbers. If people were getting ready for war, whether it be China, India, Vietnam, etc., they would begin to pour a significant portion of their resources into military even if they could never get a Western equivalent military. But they haven't spent for it or are there indications that they are.

I just don't see a problem. And without even looking at what Australia has, I'm confident she is the most well armed nation in the Western Pacific in PROPORTION to her population. All the other Asian nations, whatever level they are at or even plan to get to in the next 10 maybe even 20 years, won't be commensurate with them. Not even China.

....now....the Middle East...oh, but wait, they keep the defense industry in the West humming :) I'm not being critical of the West/Middle East military business ties, I'm just saying, really, compared to Asia or rather the Western Pacific, there isn't an arms race over there.

35 posted on 08/10/2011 5:45:29 PM PDT by ponder life
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To: Jeff Head
YThanks Stonewall. As I said on the thread from yesterday about this, both of my sites about this carrier have already been updated with the info about her setting sail on trials when the info broke nearly yesterday.

Hmmm...

I guess this phrase will NEVER go away! ;^)

36 posted on 08/10/2011 8:04:08 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: mylife

***I pray this thing is the POS I think it is***

While I do not know what the acronym POS stands for, reading all of the postings here, I’m sure it can’t be anything benign or benevolent (:) so good for you for showing your honesty. We need straight shooter like that if we are to stand to those darn ChiComs.

***About our only hope left is that we can stop china from projecting power into this hemisphere***

Into what hemisphere are you referring here? I mean aren’t you a little over reacting here? I mean God! It was nothing but an empty and rusty hull where even the propeller had been dismantled before it got towed out of the Black Sea. We were so adamant that a carrier system from scratch is not something that’s within the means of the ChiComs. i mean, Yes!, what possibly can the ChiCom’s make with the simple technology they got? Senile is the word here...

***India should have 3 carriers up and running soon.
We cant trust them but they can hold china at bay if all goes well***

India? If only the world get equally as anxious and equally as ‘emotional’ as they did this item that the ChiCom’s had picked up from a flea market...

37.000 tons http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-04/12/content_433517.htm... not very heavy is it? These are in the same classification as the Kiev whose displacement is 36,000 tons (standard)42,000 tons (loaded)... the ChiCom’s didn’t even bother with it... they turned it into a money making machines instead...

If India wants to be in on the carrier game, she needs to go the 65,000 tonnage displacement (Varyag class) or higher. Besides tonnage, to really call it a carrier, India “must” pack it with state of the art technologies just as the Imperial Japanese Navy did otherwise it’s futile.

India can do it. Only thing is: India does not have a rival of the same classification the Chicoms does (:) (meaning the Imperial Japanese Navy) (:) which warrants the same kinds of an expenditures and investments therefore India must firstly find itself an Imperial Japanese Navy of her own to deal with if she really wants in on the carrier game.

Good luck India! You are in the big leagues now so live up to it.


37 posted on 08/10/2011 9:33:06 PM PDT by EdisonOne (http://www.channel4.com/dia/images/Channel4/c4-news/MAY/04/04_helicopter_r_k.jpg)
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To: sam_paine

***http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/DuckGallery.jpg***

(:) Them ducks I’m sure sports equally big shooters (:)...

Besides, soon as that single and very first duck emerges from the ferris wheel, gets popped, other [refills] will replenish it. It’s a never ending cycle. (:)

Love that game. Never miss it when it comes to my town. That’s where I got my girl (county fairground) cos I’m a straight shooter. Never misses the target(:).


38 posted on 08/10/2011 10:11:35 PM PDT by EdisonOne (http://www.channel4.com/dia/images/Channel4/c4-news/MAY/04/04_helicopter_r_k.jpg)
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To: americanophile

***When does it start leaking radiation?***

I think it’s more like [when will they lift that hazy, grenish kryptonite infested camera on the sky jamming shield] on the Port of Dalian???

All eyes are on the Varyag... I mean why the secrecy? Not a live pic to date of it — not by GE — not by U-2’s/SR-71’s — nothing!

Can’t trust them ChiComs there... sneaky sneaky — sneaky people them Wen Jiabao’s... Just as sneaky as Groom Lake’s Area 51...


39 posted on 08/10/2011 10:30:31 PM PDT by EdisonOne (http://www.channel4.com/dia/images/Channel4/c4-news/MAY/04/04_helicopter_r_k.jpg)
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To: mylife

***It could be running on rice for all we know.***

Hehe! I like that///... Very humorous... Speaks volumes too... Rice! Hehe! Better not be rice wine cos if it is we’ll be in deep trouble (:)... Rice wine is very firely strong (:)...


40 posted on 08/10/2011 10:37:08 PM PDT by EdisonOne (http://www.channel4.com/dia/images/Channel4/c4-news/MAY/04/04_helicopter_r_k.jpg)
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