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More smokers avoiding taxes with self-rolled cigarettes and small cigars
kentucky.com ^ | Aug 12, 2011 | Beth Musgrave

Posted on 08/12/2011 7:27:34 AM PDT by KyGeezer

FRANKFORT — Revenue from Kentucky's cigarette tax is in free-fall, but more Kentuckians kicking the unhealthy habit isn't the only reason for the decline.

State officials say more and more people are turning to cheaper alternatives — little cigars and roll-your-own cigarettes — that aren't covered by the state's 60-cent-a-pack tax.

The little cigars look much like cigarettes but are wrapped in brown paper. They cost about $1.25 a pack, compared to about $3.25 for the cheapest pack of cigarettes.

The move to small cigars and roll-your-own cigarettes is a national trend. The U.S. Department of Justice estimates that states have lost $5 billion a year because people are using alternatives that have no state retail cigarette tax.

In Kentucky, state budget officials are predicting a 17.2 percent decline in revenue from the cigarette tax this fiscal year, which ends June 30. Last fiscal year, the state collected $262.4 million from cigarette taxes, down nearly 6 percent from 2010.

It's difficult to say how much of the decline is related directly to cheaper alternatives, but revenue officials say the loss from self-rolled cigarettes and small cigars is possibly in the millions of dollars.

When the legislature agreed to double the cigarette tax in 2009, the move was applauded by health advocates as a way to encourage more people to quit. It also bolstered the state's cash-strapped budget.

At first, cigarette tax revenue increased. But in June 2010, revenue from the tax began to dip.

At the same time, the state Department of Revenue, which collects tobacco-related taxes, saw retailers devote more shelf space to pipe tobacco and roll-your-own tobacco, said Richard Dobson, director of sales and excise taxes for the revenue department.

(Excerpt) Read more at kentucky.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; US: Kentucky
KEYWORDS: cigarettes; cigars; taxes
The morons never learn...raise taxes and lose revenue.
1 posted on 08/12/2011 7:27:38 AM PDT by KyGeezer
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To: KyGeezer

In college my buddies and I rolled our own: Borkum Riff in a Zig Zag.


2 posted on 08/12/2011 7:30:45 AM PDT by Genoa (Starve the beast.)
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To: KyGeezer

Cigs are 8.99 in Ct.


3 posted on 08/12/2011 7:31:24 AM PDT by y6162
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To: KyGeezer
The move to small cigars and roll-your-own cigarettes is a national trend. The U.S. Department of Justice estimates that states have lost $5 billion a year because people are using alternatives that have no state retail cigarette tax.

What's the difference between a small cigar and a cigarette? "Cigarette" literally means "small cigar".

4 posted on 08/12/2011 7:31:54 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: KyGeezer
It seems once one is employed in public service, the notion of unintended consequences becomes unfathomable.


5 posted on 08/12/2011 7:32:04 AM PDT by FourPeas ("Maladjusted and wigging out is no way to go through life, son." -hg)
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To: KyGeezer
RE :"State officials say more and more people are turning to cheaper alternatives — little cigars and roll-your-own cigarettes — that aren't covered by the state's 60-cent-a-pack tax. "

I gave up smoking decades ago but 'roll your own' to avoid the taxes is a great idea (no filters I assume.) It's so 1920s/Temporance/bootleg like.

And states like Maryland that patrol the borders looking for residents bringing cigarettes in probably are not looking for plain tabacco.

6 posted on 08/12/2011 7:33:43 AM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
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To: KyGeezer

My wife and I switched to the little cigars two years ago. They actually taste better than regular cigarettes, and cost two thirds less.

Funny how the state’s revenue from cigarette taxes dropped when they raised the rate, huh? Libs never learn.


7 posted on 08/12/2011 7:34:02 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: KyGeezer

It was now a few years ago that they jacked up the taxes on canned tobacco, which hurt a lot of very poor people.

That “it is for their own good” is a b.s. argument, when taking away the few, small pleasures they have.

I would suggest that anyone who uses this line of argument should be prohibited from eating food in restaurants, because it is less healthy, as a rule, than food prepared at home. And “it is for their own good”, to deprive them of something *they* find pleasing.


8 posted on 08/12/2011 7:34:19 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: KyGeezer

9 posted on 08/12/2011 7:34:52 AM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: Paleo Conservative
What's the difference between a small cigar and a cigarette?

Not much. They're supposedly made from cigar tobacco and rolled in brown paper instead of white. My wife and I smoke them, and besides tasting a whole lot better than 'cigarettes', they only cost us $1.70 a pack.

10 posted on 08/12/2011 7:36:16 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Paleo Conservative
What's the difference between a small cigar and a cigarette? "Cigarette" literally means "small cigar".

Filters? Taxes?

11 posted on 08/12/2011 7:36:19 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: KyGeezer
Back in 2009 they jacked up the federal tax on loose tobacco from $1/pound to over $24/pound to keep people from stealing money from the government (cough, cough) by rolling their own.
12 posted on 08/12/2011 7:38:43 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (The Repubs and Dems are arguing whether to pour 9 or 10 buckets of gasoline on a burning house.)
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To: rhombus

$1.70 a pack in Texas.

13 posted on 08/12/2011 7:40:46 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: KarlInOhio

Watch next week for the proposal to tax cigars at gigarette rates.

The government doesn’t care about your health.

They just want your money.


14 posted on 08/12/2011 7:43:37 AM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a credit card?)
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To: KyGeezer

Kentuckians continue to smoke and they are rolling their own — but it sure ain’t tobacco!


15 posted on 08/12/2011 7:48:24 AM PDT by FerociousRabbit
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To: hoosierham
at gigarette rates.

I'm not sure how much that it, but it sounds like a bunch!!!

16 posted on 08/12/2011 7:51:47 AM PDT by Onelifetogive (I tweet, too... @Onelifetogive)
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To: sickoflibs
"I gave up smoking decades ago but 'roll your own' to avoid the taxes is a great idea (no filters I assume.)"

Filters if you want 'em. Some of today's home rolling machines are pretty sophisticated...


17 posted on 08/12/2011 7:51:54 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: KyGeezer
U.S. Department of Justice estimates that states have lost $5 billion a year

Anybody else notice the stoopid attitude in this statement?

18 posted on 08/12/2011 7:52:22 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: KarlInOhio

Old Mr. Anderson our neighbor used to grow his own tobacco. Dried it in the garage.


19 posted on 08/12/2011 7:52:24 AM PDT by wordsofearnest (Proper aim of giving is to put the recipient in a state where he no longer needs it. C.S. Lewis)
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To: Windflier

{What’s the difference between a small cigar and a cigarette?}

Not much. They’re supposedly made from cigar tobacco and rolled in brown paper instead of white. My wife and I smoke them, and besides tasting a whole lot better than ‘cigarettes’, they only cost us $1.70 a pack.


Years ago (decades really) I read that cigarettes were invented to make use of the trimmings left over from the cigar-making process. The inventor never expected the waste-based product to take off.

I wish I could cite a source for you, but I would have read it on paper so source could have been anything from book to newspaper.


20 posted on 08/12/2011 7:54:20 AM PDT by Peet (Cogito ergo dubito.)
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To: KyGeezer

I used to have an Uncle Buck who was an interesting person to say the least. He would have made a good Hollywood character actor. He was always interesting to be around. He had been a hobo during the depression, a blacksmith, a sawmill operator and a lot of other things.

To a little kid, one fascinating thing was watching him roll a cigarette. He would take out a wrapper, hold it between two fingers then tap some tobacco from a “Prince Albert” can and in around 2 seconds, lick one end of the paper and have a rolled up cigarette. The whole thing took maybe 6 or 7 seconds.


21 posted on 08/12/2011 7:55:45 AM PDT by yarddog
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To: KyGeezer

While I wish my son would stop smoking, he and a friend are growing tobacco. I can’t wait to see how that works out.


22 posted on 08/12/2011 7:56:10 AM PDT by KosmicKitty (WARNING: Hormonally crazed woman ahead!!)
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To: KyGeezer; RandallFlagg
The missus smokes and has been making her own cigarettes with an injector for at least five years now courtesy of a thread here on Free Republic. I just googled it:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1310901/posts

A belated thanks to Randall Flagg who was the author.

23 posted on 08/12/2011 7:59:27 AM PDT by Dahoser (Separation of church and state? No, we need separation of media and state.)
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To: wordsofearnest
Old Mr. Anderson our neighbor used to grow his own tobacco

I enjoy tobacco in various forms and have been looking into growing my own. I'll be hitting the local Amish up for some advice.

24 posted on 08/12/2011 8:00:14 AM PDT by NativeSon
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To: wordsofearnest; KyGeezer
>>>Old Mr. Anderson our neighbor used to grow his own tobacco. Dried it in the garage.

Nothing new with that.


25 posted on 08/12/2011 8:03:53 AM PDT by tlb
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bttt


26 posted on 08/12/2011 8:05:07 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (Obamageddon, Barackalypse Now! Bam is "Debt Man Walking" in 2012 - Rush Limbaugh)
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To: Windflier
I'm hooked on little cigars now. Cigs taste like crap.
27 posted on 08/12/2011 8:07:07 AM PDT by McGruff (a Sarah Palin supporter and proud of it.)
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To: KyGeezer

Bully for them. All the more power to them. I’m not a smoker, but I love screwing the government out of tax dollars. GO FOR IT!


28 posted on 08/12/2011 8:10:12 AM PDT by laweeks
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To: FourPeas

“It seems once one is employed in public service, the notion of unintended consequences becomes unfathomable.”

This is definitely a quotable quote! Well stated, and absolutely true.


29 posted on 08/12/2011 8:11:12 AM PDT by Jay W
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To: KyGeezer

You can get a 10 pack of mini-Romeo y Julietta at most CVS’ for 10-14$.


30 posted on 08/12/2011 8:11:22 AM PDT by struggle
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To: sickoflibs

These days, “roll your own” is much different. Stores sell boxes of filtered cigarette tubes and have automated machines to stuff them.

You pour the tobacco in the top of the machine, set the amount in each tube and put the tubes in a hopper in the front.

The roll your own shops are a bit like speakeasies, since they sell all the components and supply the machines, but you do the work yourself to avoid taxes.

Just wait a year and there will be revenuers coming after these places.


31 posted on 08/12/2011 8:11:34 AM PDT by MediaMole
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To: Paleo Conservative

“What’s the difference between a small cigar and a cigarette?”

Cigars and cigarillos are tobacco wrapped in tobacco leaves, cigarettes are tobacco wrapped in paper.


32 posted on 08/12/2011 8:21:10 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: McGruff
I'm hooked on little cigars now. Cigs taste like crap.

Same here. Every once in a while someone gives me a regular cig when I'm out of stogies, and they taste awful. Can't believe I ever spent good money on them. I could never go back.

Sorta like getting a taste of 12 year old single malt Scotch. Makes the blended stuff taste like tractor starter.

33 posted on 08/12/2011 8:23:23 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: wordsofearnest

“Old Mr. Anderson our neighbor used to grow his own tobacco.”

Old Mr. Anderson was violating federal law. We can’t have citizens growing plants that are a tax boon for the government, now can we?


34 posted on 08/12/2011 8:23:53 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: sickoflibs

You can roll your own with filters. In the 70s, I used a Laredo machine, canned tobacco and loose filters. Today, I use a different machine with tubes prefitted with filters and bagged tobacco. If government tries to tax that, I’ll find another way. Screw them.


35 posted on 08/12/2011 8:26:04 AM PDT by trubolotta
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To: MediaMole
What is you opinion of this?

Mail order cigarettes or tobacco is not a separately categorized “mailed” product requiring different compliance's than any other mail order product. The “Jenkins Act” applies to “all” mail order products period! It is a “Federal” law and thereby governs all mail order retailers of all products whether they are reservation based or not. It is not legal to avoid taxes. It is not legal to tamper with the U.S. Mail by “anyone” without a search warrant. As a United States Citizen you are free to make your own choices. Penalties can be imposed if certain states discover that cigarette taxes have not been paid; however, no penalties will be imposed for any other tobacco product. “Federal” Statute says you can legally have 60,000 cigarettes in your possession for personal use only.

2011 Cigarettes-Outlet.com

36 posted on 08/12/2011 8:27:10 AM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
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To: FourPeas

It is their money, why should we be able to keep it? (Sarc)


37 posted on 08/12/2011 8:37:23 AM PDT by WMarshal (Where is the next Sam Adams?)
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To: KyGeezer

You can get smokes from the Indian res tax free. That makes ‘em a lot cheaper. The higher the taxes the more smuggling that goes on.


38 posted on 08/12/2011 8:42:54 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: NativeSon

The biggest sellers of tobacco seed are a couple of outfits in Oregon, of all places. I read an article on that last year when they talked about how their sales had skyrocketed due to people wanting to grow their own to avoid the ripoff taxes.


39 posted on 08/12/2011 8:47:34 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: sickoflibs

http://www.ryocigarette.com/rollingtubes.html


40 posted on 08/12/2011 8:51:50 AM PDT by Getsmart64
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To: FourPeas

I’m going to add that to my list of pithy quotes. Spot-on.


41 posted on 08/12/2011 9:21:12 AM PDT by NVDave
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
It was now a few years ago that they jacked up the taxes on canned tobacco, which hurt a lot of very poor people.

June 2009. I was mightily pissed off, I can tell you... when I was out of work and poor, I rolled my own for much less money than ready-rolled cigs. Now the government has screwed that up.

July 2009 was when I began 'smoking' e-cigarettes (personal vaporizers) to get my nicotine fix. I haven't paid a cent in cigarette taxes for some time now and my lungs are feeling much better!

42 posted on 08/12/2011 10:07:22 AM PDT by Max in Utah (A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.)
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To: Dahoser

People in our family purchased an electric cigarette maker that resembles a Mr. Coffee machine. It makes a pack of cigarettes in about five minutes. If anyone is interested in the address or the website, let me know. We live in Pennsylvania, but the company is in California. Amazing savings that brings the cost of a carton of cigarettes down to about $12.00 including shipping.


43 posted on 08/12/2011 10:55:05 AM PDT by Seniram US (Quote of the Day: Smile You're An American)
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To: Scotsman will be Free

IIRC it is against the law to grow tobacco in NC on land that doesn’t have an allotment.


44 posted on 08/12/2011 11:03:22 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Max in Utah

All you tobacco addicts should slap on a patch and just smoke weed.

When ciggies go to $15 a pack we can laugh our glutes off and order in pizzas and chinese food with the savings.


45 posted on 08/12/2011 11:04:10 AM PDT by tarotsailor
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Donate Just One
Each Month if You Will



46 posted on 08/12/2011 12:07:56 PM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: AppyPappy

Gotta love freedom.


47 posted on 08/12/2011 1:12:21 PM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: Boogieman
Actually, the law currently allows for growing your own, as long as you aren't selling it.

Tobacco can be used as an insecticide, and also for deworming livestock. At one time it was even prescribed to people for getting rid of intestinal parasites.

48 posted on 08/12/2011 3:56:39 PM PDT by Ellendra (God feeds the birds of the air, but he doesn't throw it in their nests.)
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To: Ellendra

Hmm, I’d read somewhere that the Feds could get you for that, when I’d considered growing my own. Guess they must have been talking about commercial operations.

I did know about the other uses though. The Army survival manual still advices eating a cigarette or two to get rid of intestinal parasites if you are out in the wild and can’t get proper medical attention. Of course, that will make you sick too, but as long as you only eat a small amount, it won’t kill you.


49 posted on 08/12/2011 4:33:58 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: MediaMole
The roll your own shops are a bit like speakeasies, since they sell all the components and supply the machines, but you do the work yourself to avoid taxes.

A RYO just opened up in my neighborhood. A "carton" (190-210 smokes) sell for $27, damn near half the price of a carton of Marlboros. The proprietors will blend the bulk tobacco to match the consumer's preferred brand. The only catch is you have to buy a cigarette case because you literally get a box of 200 cigarettes. No individual packs.

More power to them, I say. If I could find a black market dealer, some "Tony the small time mobster"-type to sell me cartons out of the trunk of his Chrysler, I'd give him my business in a second without losing a wink's sleep over it.

50 posted on 08/12/2011 4:47:47 PM PDT by Gena Bukin
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