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Are we making too big of a deal about China's first aircraft carrier?
The China Teaching Web ^ | 8-12-2011 | Robert Vance

Posted on 08/12/2011 10:29:30 PM PDT by robertvance

On August 14th, 1912, the United States launched its first aircraft carrier, the USS Langley. This 11,500 ton ship served during both World Wars until its luck ran out near Java in 1942 and had to be abandoned and sunk in order to avoid capture by the Japanese.

Almost one hundred years later, China has just launched its first aircraft carrier and the U.S. State department is demanding to know why.

"We would welcome any kind of explanation that China would like to give for needing this kind of equipment," said Victoria Nuland, a State department spokeswoman.

Let me give you the explanation, Victoria. China is the world’s largest country and has recently become the second largest economy behind the United States. China is also the undisputed powerhouse in Asia. Is that a good enough explanation for you?

(Excerpt) Read more at teachabroadchina.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aircraftcarrier; bhoasia; bhochina; china; chinesemilitary; communism; navy; pla
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1 posted on 08/12/2011 10:29:34 PM PDT by robertvance
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To: robertvance

Chinas carrier is a very nice target..


2 posted on 08/12/2011 10:33:44 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: robertvance

Yes

1. It is going to cost them a ton of money that they could use for something much more dangerous
2. They don’t know how to support and maintain these ships
3. They don’t know how to defend them
4. They don’t have the training to run them
5. They don’t know how to use them

Current status: Only a political statement they they can use to intimidate their neighbors and encourage an Asia Arms race. A race they will loose if they waste money on Carriers.


3 posted on 08/12/2011 10:35:15 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

Didn’t we think the same thing about Japanese naval power prior to World War II?


4 posted on 08/12/2011 10:40:28 PM PDT by robertvance
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To: robertvance

Good point, I think China is basically trying to do what the Japanese couldn’t, create the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.


5 posted on 08/12/2011 10:41:44 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: robertvance

No. The fact that they have an aged carrier is not the problem, the problem is that they’re getting ready to assert themselves as the world’s supreme power AND they have been selling our military the basis of our own technology such as the tens of thousands of defective chips capable of remote access/termination recently in the news.

The fact is that with the Apologist on tour, other nations smell blood in the water. While I believe in sovereign rights, I think it’s foolish to think for a second that the U.S. is safe from foreign action. There are at least a dozen countries who are chomping at the bit to tear us down, and unless we worry about protecting ourselves and not the rest of the world, we’re in big trouble. Our current leadership seems interested in neither.


6 posted on 08/12/2011 10:41:47 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: dila813

I know a professor who is an expert on China and the military. He says that the US building an Air Craft Carrier is just about as complex as sending a man to the moon.

He said last Spring that the US is the only nation that has figured it out.

Now that China has one, you wonder if they stole our secrets.

These things are equipped with missiles that could take down our ships.

China also has submarine bases that have under water ports. Looks like they are preparing for war against us.


7 posted on 08/12/2011 10:43:21 PM PDT by garjog
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To: robertvance

History is full of “They couldn’t/wouldn’t possibly...” statements, proven wrong. You reference a good example. It is noteworthy that had the good men at Pearl Harbor not been caught asleep, the outcome may have been very different. But the point you made is remarkably valid none the less.


8 posted on 08/12/2011 10:44:25 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: robertvance

I don’t know, I wasn’t here...oh wait...let me ask my uncle that was here...oh he is dead

Well...if I am not mistaken, the Japanese Aircraft Carriers were new technology and we didn’t have good Intel on where they were.

These aircraft carriers are old technology that you can smell 500 miles away..and pick them up live via satillite.

So it is a little hard to swallow.

Now, if they had a aircraft carrier that submerged that the Chinese were fielding. That would be a fair comparison....otherwise, nope .... invalid.


9 posted on 08/12/2011 10:46:13 PM PDT by dila813
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To: garjog

I have a toaster made in China. The toast...well, if they make their aircraft carriers to the same quality levels as my toaster, we ain’t got anything to worry about!


10 posted on 08/12/2011 10:47:21 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT!)
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To: robertvance

11 posted on 08/12/2011 10:49:11 PM PDT by garjog
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To: garjog
“He said last Spring that the US is the only nation that has figured it out.”

Your teacher isn't very knowledgeable on aircraft carriers.

France, India, Britain, .... no it isn't easy but just having an aircraft carrier isn't that big a deal.

No what is a big deal with the US Carriers ... their ability to operate out at sea for years without hitting port and without requiring lay-up.

12 posted on 08/12/2011 10:49:49 PM PDT by dila813
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To: hosepipe

They just lack the experience to understand that just yet.


13 posted on 08/12/2011 10:50:56 PM PDT by Michael Barnes (Obamaa+ Downgrade)
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To: garjog

“Looks like they are preparing for war against us.”

Yes, yes it does. Also, of note, is the fact that superior technology does not always insure victory. We have lost good men in the middle east to rudimentary weaponry (However, I must add that if a nation were so inclined, they could have bombed them into oblivion, but irradication is seldom the aim of wars).

Also, often the U.S. can overcomplicate things that don’t need to be. I remember once hearing a story about how the space pen came about (I’m not certain if it is true). The lecturer (at a science forum), said that when the U.S. and the Soviets were in the space race the U.S. wanted to solve a problem of writing in space, with the problems of zero g’s for the ink, writing upside down, etc. He said we put a few million dollars into the project and came up with the pressurized cartridges for the space pens, with the ink that is viscous enough for the application (to not spurt out, I assume). He noted that the Soviets, facing the same dilemma, simply used a pencil.

We have to look for ways to protect ourselves in simple ways, and not merely the complex.


14 posted on 08/12/2011 10:51:19 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: dila813

“No what is a big deal with the US Carriers ... their ability to operate out at sea for years without hitting port and without requiring lay-up.”

OK. That is what my expert friend must have meant.

He said something about our ability to protect them from nuclear radiation when a nuke explodes next to them by some kind of sea water washing system.


15 posted on 08/12/2011 10:53:36 PM PDT by garjog
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To: dfwgator

Well, you have to worry about the dollar becoming worthless.

Because back in WWII, the thing that really sparked the Japanese was the feeling the only way to get was to take.

Currently the world is operating under a monetary acquisition system, you can have anything as long as you have the money. If all of a sudden your money is worthless, the danger is countries will revert back to the former model.

In that case, yes China would try to use her military might to acquire that which she desires.


16 posted on 08/12/2011 10:54:54 PM PDT by dila813
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To: robertvance
The Chinese have been building a blue water navy for years. They intend to be the super power in their part of the world as well as take back Taiwan. Unfortunately our chicken shit president will take no action against it. He will still be launching missiles into Libya. His few week war that has been in process for what, 3 months now? We need to get Zero out of the Oval Office and put someone in there that won't have an agenda to turn this country into a third world shit hole like Mexico.
17 posted on 08/12/2011 10:56:41 PM PDT by Nitehawk0325 (I have the right to remain silent, but I lack the ability...........)
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To: robertvance
The Chinese have been building a blue water navy for years. They intend to be the super power in their part of the world as well as take back Taiwan. Unfortunately our chicken shit president will take no action against it. He will still be launching missiles into Libya. His few week war that has been in process for what, 3 months now? We need to get Zero out of the Oval Office and put someone in there that won't have an agenda to turn this country into a third world shit hole like Mexico.
18 posted on 08/12/2011 10:56:53 PM PDT by Nitehawk0325 (I have the right to remain silent, but I lack the ability...........)
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To: robertvance
The Chinese have been building a blue water navy for years. They intend to be the super power in their part of the world as well as take back Taiwan. Unfortunately our chicken shit president will take no action against it. He will still be launching missiles into Libya. His few week war that has been in process for what, 3 months now? We need to get Zero out of the Oval Office and put someone in there that won't have an agenda to turn this country into a third world shit hole like Mexico.
19 posted on 08/12/2011 10:56:59 PM PDT by Nitehawk0325 (I have the right to remain silent, but I lack the ability...........)
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To: garjog

That is pretty old, but that system doesn’t protect against a nuke near the carrier. It only prevents the radiative contamination from sticking to the decks.

Navy scum like me still had to go out and scrub it off and over the side of the ship.

No, the carriers only defense was to remain far out to sea hidden. Once a carrier is located, it is very easy to kill.

The carrier’s days were over as soon as countries like China started to launch their own real time satellites. No more hiding unless you are willing to shoot down or take over their satellites ... and the Dems are pretty much preventing us from going there.


20 posted on 08/12/2011 10:59:32 PM PDT by dila813
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To: JDW11235

“the Soviets, facing the same dilemma, simply used a pencil.”

I heard that too.

Just did a search and Snoops says that the claim isn’t entirely true. NASA asked Fisher to make a prototype of the pen, but it wasn’t developed or used.

http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp


21 posted on 08/12/2011 10:59:36 PM PDT by garjog
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To: dila813

“1. It is going to cost them a ton of money that they could use for something much more dangerous
2. They don’t know how to support and maintain these ships
3. They don’t know how to defend them
4. They don’t have the training to run them
5. They don’t know how to use them”

Fair point, and China has downplayed the carrier’s role as a threat, saying it will be used for training and research.

That would be training on operating aircraft carriers and research into building better aircraft carriers. They are aware of the items on dila813’s list, and they intend to check them off.


22 posted on 08/12/2011 10:59:52 PM PDT by BladeBryan
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To: dila813

Plus Obama promised China in February 2009 that if we were unable to pay back our debts, we would give them land/assets. He said it to get them to resume their buying of treasuries. Whether or not it’s true that he will actually try to give them our assets, if the economic situation goes south, they’ll still be miffed. I don’t see the average American buying into that plan.


23 posted on 08/12/2011 10:59:57 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: robertvance

I think I like felonious munk on this topic.


24 posted on 08/12/2011 11:00:10 PM PDT by MarMema (chains we can believe in)
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To: JDW11235

I agree. And the US needs to be prepared for the possibility of a conflict with China someday. However, since China is not threatening us or our allies, I don’t understand how we can demand that China tell us what it wants to do with the aircraft carrier.


25 posted on 08/12/2011 11:00:11 PM PDT by robertvance
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To: Nitehawk0325

Take back Taiwan? The U.S. already recognizes a one-China policy (not to be confused with China’s one CHILD policy ;)).

It’s just how fast the reunification should take place that is in question.


26 posted on 08/12/2011 11:03:25 PM PDT by robertvance
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To: BladeBryan

Well, we only learned them through lost lives, blood, and sweat.

It isn’t exactly something that is transferable in a text book...it is only transferable through navy tradition and discipline.


27 posted on 08/12/2011 11:03:53 PM PDT by dila813
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To: Nitehawk0325

“our chicken shit president “

Obama admires the Glorious Peoples Republic of China. He also compared himself to Lincoln.

“Obama: “China is making investments in the future, they’re making investments in clean energy, they’re making investments in infrastructure…we used to have the best infrastructure in the world…had the best roads, the best airports, the best ports, the best highways, the best internet service, now we’re second, we’re third, we’re fifteenth, we’re twenty-first, we can’t win that way…listen Abraham Lincoln helped to build the intercontinental railroad in the middle of the Civil War...” http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2011/02/17/obama-says-china-has-better-infrastructure-us-compares-himself-lincoln


28 posted on 08/12/2011 11:04:35 PM PDT by garjog
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To: robertvance

Well, we certainly don’t want China to have an air craft carrier. We better go to war!


29 posted on 08/12/2011 11:04:35 PM PDT by vigilo
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To: robertvance

China will simply acquire Taiwanese companies and buy out Taiwan without firing a shot.


30 posted on 08/12/2011 11:05:23 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: JDW11235

I am not going for this and no future President is going to respect the words of this commie sole licker.


31 posted on 08/12/2011 11:05:50 PM PDT by dila813
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To: garjog
I know a professor who is an expert on China and the military. He says that the US building an Air Craft Carrier is just about as complex as sending a man to the moon.

He said last Spring that the US is the only nation that has figured it out.

Figured out what? "Copy the British"

32 posted on 08/12/2011 11:06:00 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (New gets old. Steampunk is always cool)
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To: garjog

Very interesting, thank you for the link. Having read that, I conclude that the government made a restrictions (Unable to burn, work in vacuum, no gravity, and temp requirements), and someone apparently out of the goodness of his heart (since he sold 400 at a couple bucks a piece to the government) paid over a million to develop. I was unaware that the U.S. used pencils prior, and the Soviets used the Fisher pen after development. But the devil is in the details, as they say!

Thanks for teaching me something new!


33 posted on 08/12/2011 11:08:33 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: dfwgator

That is their plan, and it is working very well.

They just need their military to cool it. The military over there is really butch, always scrapping for action even when it isn’t needed.

The only thing that would disrupt this ... the dollar suddenly becoming worthless and not having enough of their money in gold.

Then I bet things would quickly get hot if global trade broke down because of it.

Before WWII, you got to keep the spoils of war, the only one that enforced that you don’t get to keep the spoils of war was the US. If the US is no longer the dominate power, who is to say the world doesn’t return back to the spoils of war?

I think that is really the frighting scenario.

The lefties always give the US such a bad rap, but they have no idea how bad things would be today if we weren’t around to prevent this type of insidious payoff for aggression of neighboring countries.


34 posted on 08/12/2011 11:10:18 PM PDT by dila813
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To: Nitehawk0325

“I have said it thrice: What I tell you three times is true.” - Lewis Carroll


35 posted on 08/12/2011 11:10:46 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (New gets old. Steampunk is always cool)
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To: dila813

I believe they will eventually make a deal with South Korea to bring them into fold, in exchange for helping them to take care of the “North Korea Problem.”


36 posted on 08/12/2011 11:12:20 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: robertvance
China has just launched its first aircraft carrier and the U.S. State department is demanding to know why.

"We would welcome any kind of explanation that China would like to give for needing this kind of equipment,"

They want to be able to launch aircraft at sea. Can I pick up my fat consulting check from the State Dept. now?

Actually I just had a change of heart. In purely altruistic interest of minimizing the national debt, I will waive the consulting fee.

37 posted on 08/12/2011 11:13:26 PM PDT by Ackackadack
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To: dfwgator

I don’t know, maybe.

I know a lot more about the south than the north.


38 posted on 08/12/2011 11:13:55 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

Agreed, the problem is the Chinese don’t like being lied to either. This President is knowingly screwing the people of the U.S., and setting us up to be destroyed after he leaves office (which is why so many provisions in the laws he’s signed don’t go into effect until years later, he can either grant waivers and stave off the political fallout, or the buck merely gets passed to his successor). The problem is that he’ll make sure after he makes his bed, someone else will have to sleep in it.


39 posted on 08/12/2011 11:13:59 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: robertvance

I don’t see that it makes a whole lot of difference - we have become so co-dependent economically that military threats will not be in either’s side’s interest.

The question is rather useless since we can’t/won’t stop them anyway. We just have to keep an eye on them and react appropriately. They have a long ways to go before they match our military strength, if they start closing in we need to be sure to stay a step ahead.


40 posted on 08/12/2011 11:14:43 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: aquila48

Yes, currently we have the economic version of “Mutually Assured Destruction”, China is trying to do everything they can to rectify that.


41 posted on 08/12/2011 11:16:38 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: JDW11235

If I were the Chinese and all of a sudden found out that I had been fooled into taking a bunch of worthless paper in exchange for precious national resources that people died mining out of the ground, I might decide I had a right to revert back to the rules of war and the rules of spoils.

That would be an incredible bad day for the world, because once one country does it and gets away with it....it is going to be a global free for all.

You know those looters in London? Replace the Looters with countries...then you got the picture.


42 posted on 08/12/2011 11:20:11 PM PDT by dila813
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To: aquila48

“we have become so co-dependent economically”

That isn’t going to save us if the global trade system breaks down.


43 posted on 08/12/2011 11:21:40 PM PDT by dila813
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To: Oztrich Boy

“Figured out what? “Copy the British””

OK, what is great about Freepers is if you make a mistake, you are corrected quickly by guys who know what they are talking about.

I will go back and ask my buddy about what he meant. He really is an expert (wrote two books on Asia by major publishers) and just turned down a job as an adviser to the Navy about China. http://www.amazon.com/Rise-China-International-Security-America/dp/041555876X/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260815817&sr=1-7


44 posted on 08/12/2011 11:22:05 PM PDT by garjog
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To: robertvance

Cool video. US Navy 2011-The Best Navy of The World http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG7oNCsBZ-Y


45 posted on 08/12/2011 11:22:52 PM PDT by garjog
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To: robertvance
However, since China is not threatening us or our allies, I don’t understand how we can demand that China tell us what it wants to do with the aircraft carrier.

Ya sure? The Chicoms have spy's right here. likely hundreds of them. Ya don't need a physical attack, to understand you can be undermined or harmed.

46 posted on 08/12/2011 11:27:13 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: garjog
He said something about our ability to protect them from nuclear radiation when a nuke explodes next to them by some kind of sea water washing system.

Not just carriers, but almost all the ships in our fleet are equipped with a washdown system.

47 posted on 08/12/2011 11:27:13 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: dila813

Agreed. That scenario isn’t something that keeps me up at night, but is certainly something I think about, and certainly try to prepare for as best one can. Your comments have all been spot on, in my opinion. I’m off to bed this evening, and as such will take my leave, and thank you very much for the dialogue.


48 posted on 08/12/2011 11:27:42 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: robertvance

NEVER underestimate the Communists, esp. the Red Chinese. They are much smarter than the Russians were, and have several thousand years of military history on their side.

Besides, the have read Sun tsu many times over, as well as Clausewitz, Bismarck, Patton, and Sir Robert Thompson, among others.

An aircraft carrier is an instrument to project a physical military presence, both visual and war-ready. With standoff cruise missiles and the “swarm technique” for outrider escorts, an aircraft carrier is a floating Navy, Army, and Air Force with a lot of teeth, and teeth can take a big bite out of you.

Intimidation first. Actual strikes later. Who is going to say “no” to a 1.6 billion people country who can field armies larger than many countries?

They have a robust military space program (anti-satellite); nuclear long-range ICBMs and shorter range missiles; a massive war-fighting industrial complex; more men than they need to conquer all of Asia and a part of Russia; a large, modern, and growing Air Force; a greatly expanding Navy including their submarine force; access to ports all over the world; spies in every major industrial country; massive foreign investment programs which give them entry into every country they are dealing with (and thus can influence; many covert supporters in nearly every country around the world worth influencing; and nobody willing to stand up to them.

As Alfred E. Neuman used to say, “What me worry?”


49 posted on 08/12/2011 11:29:40 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: robertvance

You really are quite a China apologist.


50 posted on 08/12/2011 11:29:53 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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