Posted on 08/13/2011 1:43:24 PM PDT by reaganaut1
During a televised discussion of the past weeks riots in England on Friday night, a prominent English historian sparked outrage by insisting that black, Afro-Caribbean culture was to blame for the mayhem and looting, even when the rioters were white.
David Starkey, who has presented several documentaries on the Tudor period, said during a BBC debate: the problem is that the whites have become black a particular sort of violent, destructive, nihilistic gangster culture has become the fashion and black and white, boy and girl, operate in this language together; this language, which is wholly false, which is a Jamaican patois, thats been intruded in England, and this is why so many of us have this sense of literally a foreign country.
Asked if he was saying that the prophecy of Enoch Powell an English politician who claimed in a speech in 1968 that immigration would eventually mean, the black man will have the whip hand over the white man in Britain had come true, Mr. Starkey replied: Thats not true. He added, its not skin color, its cultural.
The historian then sought to illustrate his point by referring to the way one of Londons leading black politicians, David Lammy, speaks. Listen to David Lammy, Mr. Starkey said, an archetypical, successful black man: if you turned the screen off, so that you were listening to him on radio, youd think he was white.
The other participants in the debate quickly objected to Mr. Starkeys remarks. Owen Jones, the author of a book about working class culture in Britain, told the historian: Its utterly outrageous, obviously, what youre saying. What youre doing is youre equating black culture with criminality.
(Excerpt) Read more at thelede.blogs.nytimes.com ...
Erik Bonhoeffer was the German minister who took his fight directly to the nazis (and eventually died for it). He found his particuliar brand of faith in black churches of America and took that back to Germany with him.
The left has since claimed him as they often do but Bonhoeffer sat in the pews long before liberation theology and social justice infected churches.
In his book “Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy” Eric Metaxas attempts to correct the record. Its a powerful story.
Depends on what you define “violence” as. Do you include “violence” as shanking a kid for his lunch money and exclude conflicts between empires which results in the deaths of millions or reckless driving in the suburbs.
(There’s actually a 13-1 ratio of dying in the suburbs of a car accident than dying in the city of a murder). You can’t pepper spray a car.
Anyway, I would take anything he says with a grain of salt.
“The author declared a national holiday for England, he criticised Scottish, Irish and Welsh nationalisms describing these nations as “feeble little countries”. In the same context, he described England as a “formerly great” nation”
So.. how many of you other freepers are of Irish, Scots or Welsh ancestry?
Calling a spade a spade breaks thru PC wall
Furthermore, I also want to be on record quoting Ayn Rand.
“Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism. It is the notion of ascribing moral, social or political significance to a mans genetic lineagethe notion that a mans intellectual and characterological traits are produced and transmitted by his internal body chemistry. Which means, in practice, that a man is to be judged, not by his own character and actions, but by the characters and actions of a collective of ancestor”
Yep, and God bless them for that.
I’m curious how many blacks in the early 60s actually thought the great society programs were going to be a good thing.
It’s my take, that many of them probably dreaded it.
It’s my take also, that what they really wanted, was to simply be allowed to participate and thrive, like the rest of us.
Now that would have been a great society, I could have signed on to.
Instead this nation was wounded to the detriment of all citizens, especially the black family
And then, there are the “useful tools” who are used by the Marxists; and I think some of them have been politicians and Presidents. LBJ seemed to have an almost cynical attitude toward the blacks; and to want to assure ownership of that voting bloc forever through the “War on Poverty”.
Now, when you say “Democrat”, you’ve said “Useful Commie Tool” as far as I go.
The lady that taught me to cook Grits correctly, down in the Black Belt of Alabama, had a similar family problem. She was the salt of the Earth but her kids were on the County or the State.
The lady that taught me to cook Grits correctly, down in the Black Belt of Alabama, had a similar family problem. She was the salt of the Earth but her kids were on the County or the State.
When progressives lost the racial war they immediately set out to re enslave minority cultures with government largess. The Great Society was an overt effort to chain inner city poverty culture to the democrat party. .
The social service policies of the 60's were intended to stifle personal responsibility and encourage dependence on state services.
It worked. Those who most viciously opposed civil rights regained their place as overlords by breaking down (especially) black culture with policies that rewarded promiscuity and promoted dereliction of parental duties.
These policies persist to this day. The belief that government subsistence is preferable to economic freedom is the cornerstone of progressive ideology.
Herr Blowhard,
Kindly take a trip to Africa to witness for yourself. The bulk of Africa still operates at the tribal level, no one can get ahead of the chief. A huge impediment to their cultures turning into civilizations. With this, there is the subculture, if you want it , take it. This has been going on for a zillion years. If you have a handle on the English language, you are pegged as white. If you have a education? The majority frame you white and ostracize you.
We see this same culture in the Ebonics gang of America. Its in the rap crap. Its in the hip hop. Over there? Thats the majority. They do not understand that wealth accumulation is a process, they see it as, “man, he musta ripped off a lot of guys”
The blacks over here? Don’t know how good they have it. Every nation there is corrupt to the core. Genocide? Still alive there. Racism? un paralleled , but then again that leads to the genocide. Pal? There is a lot to be said. Take a trip, go live there for a couple of years and you will understand their culture better.
Yes, they do have some industrial strength people but their institutional quality people far out number their good.
Thats here, Britain and in Africa, the home and root of their problem.
I know crime rates are high in Jamaica, but growing up in New York City, Jamaican immigrants tended to be very hard working and orderly. (IIRC, in “Free to Chose”, Milton Friedman claimed that Jamaican immigrants had higher per capita incomes than white Anglo-Saxons.) Also, locally, going back to World War II, in this part of Massachusetts, we get an influx of Jamaican fruit pickers on temporary work permits. They come up during harvest season, pick fruit and live in bunk house dormitories for the few weeks they are here. They are orderly, workmanlike and quite clean. Flannel shirts and jeans, no dreadlocks. The work permits are handed down from father to son and highly prized. They probably make about $12/hour, but are grateful for the work. The farmers vastly prefer the Jamaicans to native Americans, since they are more productive and do far less damage to the trees and are less likely to bruise the fruit.
In my experience, none of us, both black and white, are that long "out of the trees" and will quickly return to our feral state in the absence of discipline.
Well, it is layered on a white, lower-class culture, that is not much different. Just read Dickens. Bill Sykes would fit right into the present scene. Not to make a pun, all the blacks do is add color.
Hard to get a banking system going because property is held in common. Tribalism is an impediment because the individual cannot act apart from the tribe.
I think it’s more to the point to call it thug culture, insofar as this particular discussion is concerned.
Thug originates from Thuggee in India, a cultural anomaly where the cult of an obscure goddess gave a religious framework to secret criminal organizations that killed and looted travelers...imaginative people may make comparisons.
It was not recognized as Indian culture, but as a twisted use of religion to manipulate the weak minded, using malleable poor people to commit terrorism for loot. The thuggee “Loot tor Liberation Theology” is no more. The British happened to them.
I think it’s more to the point to call it thug culture, insofar as this particular discussion is concerned.
Thug originates from Thuggee in India, a cultural anomaly where the cult of an obscure goddess gave a religious framework to secret criminal organizations that killed and looted travelers...imaginative people may make comparisons.
It was not recognized as Indian culture, but as a twisted use of religion to manipulate the weak minded, using malleable poor people to commit terrorism for loot. The thuggee “Loot tor Liberation Theology” is no more. The British happened to them.
I beg to differ. As a white woman transplant to Georgia, in the 60s - I never experienced animosity or resentment in my relationships with men & women of color. They were gentle, joyful people - in spite of segregation and indignities. Perhaps their strength of character developed because of their ‘second class’ status and struggles to succeed.
It truly is appalling how the government handouts have caused men and women of all cultures to lose parenting and social skills in this society. Once again, we are ‘separate but equal’ in all our deviant and destructive behavior. JMHO
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