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Only National Collapse Will End America’s Spending Problem
The New American ^ | 15 August 2011 | Selwyn Duke

Posted on 08/16/2011 6:39:17 AM PDT by Paladins Prayer

While many are complaining about the recent debt-ceiling deal, is it really the issue? Sure, statists say that the Republicans steered us toward crisis with their initial unwillingness to compromise, while traditionalists complain that the GOP folded and “let us down again.” Our problems, however, lie not in our politicians but in ourselves.

Just so you know, my solution to our spending woes would be to once again limit the central government to only that which our Constitution dictates it may do, which would cause its budget to immediately shrink by at least two-thirds — and probably far more. Of course, this would involve eliminating bureaucracies such as the Department of Education, Environmental Protection Agency, and Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and programs such as Social Security and federally provided food stamps. There would be nothing to fear, either, as there is much duplication here; for example, states have their own environmental and education agencies and other bureaucracies/programs that render the feds’ corresponding ones redundant. And why are we paying for two different levels of government to do the same thing? As for third-rail program Social Security, it could be devolved to the states, whose residents could then decide what its future would be.

Oh, this is unrealistic and will never happen, you say?

You’re right.

And it was just as unrealistic to think that Republicans, who control only one-half of one-third of the government — and very little of the media, which shapes public opinion — would deliver a Tea Party plan in a spending-party culture.

(Excerpt) Read more at thenewamerican.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: budget; ceiling; collapse; debt; republicans
The author is dead right.
1 posted on 08/16/2011 6:39:21 AM PDT by Paladins Prayer
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To: Paladins Prayer

or secession and the obligatory Civil War....


2 posted on 08/16/2011 6:43:16 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Paladins Prayer

“The America of my time line is a laboratory example of what can happen to democracies, what has eventually happened to all perfect democracies throughout all histories. A perfect democracy, a ‘warm body’ democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens… which is opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will always vote in the public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it… which for the majority translates as ‘Bread and Circuses.’

‘Bread and Circuses’ is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader—the barbarians enter Rome.”
— Robert A. Heinlein


3 posted on 08/16/2011 6:46:27 AM PDT by flowerplough (Pelosi on Republicans: "They want to destroy food safety, clean air, clean water, ...")
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To: Paladins Prayer

Yes, he is.


4 posted on 08/16/2011 6:51:31 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: Paladins Prayer

And the dims in power are racing our country toward obmageddon and think this won’t affect them.


5 posted on 08/16/2011 6:52:27 AM PDT by Texas resident (Hunkered Down)
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To: central_va

To wit: the title.


6 posted on 08/16/2011 6:52:29 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Paladins Prayer

The American job machine doesn’t start until someone in DC grabs a history text and starts reading about Warren Harding...and acting on it.

Warren Harding figured it out in 1920...

Congress and the Executive Branch have lots to do.

So far they’re not doin’ it right..

Its been done before..

Harding cut the government’s budget nearly in half between 1920 and 1922. The rest of Harding’s approach was equally laissez-faire. Tax rates were slashed for all income groups. The national debt was reduced by one-third. The Federal Reserve’s activity, moreover, was hardly noticeable. As one economic historian puts it, “Despite the severity of the contraction, the Fed did not move to use its powers to turn the money supply around and fight the contraction.” 2 By the late summer of 1921, signs of recovery were already visible. The following year, unemployment was back down to 6.7 percent and was only 2.4 percent by 1923.

http://www.firstprinciplesjournal.com/articles.aspx?article=1319&loc=r

BTW..ole Warren ALSO fixed immigration...

Mr. Harding signed into law the Emergency Quota Act[3] which sought to control immigration following World War I and preserve the distinctive American culture by ensuring the majority of immigrants came from the historically compatible cultures of Northern Europe. This law aimed to bring wages of hard working Americans under control by limiting immigration to 3% of the 1910 census. It was followed on by a similar act in 1924, after Mr. Harding’s death.[4]

A Warren Harding prescription...if filled ...would ignite the afterburners on the US job machine and the economy. However DC would have to yield on a tremendous amount of power. Our job as We the People...is to persuade them of the “utility” ..shall we say..of doing so. In all probability the same minds that made the mess...aren’t capable of the solution however.

BTW any takers that ‘Bammy couldn’t even tell you that Warren Harding was one of his predecessors in office?

Even more telling about what our betters in the RinoCracy think of a Constitutional President..

http://www.usnews.com/listings/worst-presidents/warren-harding


7 posted on 08/16/2011 6:53:07 AM PDT by mo
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To: flowerplough

If I recall from my reading I believe that it was Jefferson who wanted to limit the right to vote to real property owners. I agree with him.


8 posted on 08/16/2011 6:53:40 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: Texas resident
And the dims in power are racing our country toward obmageddon and think this won’t affect them.

I wouldn't want to be driving a BMW through the streets of Georgetown when the lid finally blows off.
9 posted on 08/16/2011 6:54:19 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Paladins Prayer

Unfortunately, he is entirely right, and you can even see why on FR - just read the Social Security and Medicare threads. And then there are those who cling to their “free” single-payer” government school system welfare program...


10 posted on 08/16/2011 6:55:30 AM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: Paladins Prayer
What part of THERE IS NO MONEY don’t these people understand?

They understand. Photobucket

It was the Communist plan in 1934. It is 0bama’s Communist plan today.

11 posted on 08/16/2011 7:05:35 AM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: Paladins Prayer
There are so many reasons why this article is (unfortunately) correct. Just a few:

- Our citizenry has become accustomed to believing that it's our birthright to have world class housing, education, retirement, food, healthcare etc. etc. etc. simply by virtue of being born in the USA.

- The systems and institutions that made us great are breaking down past the point of rehabilitation. These include the family, education, government, law, finance, politics, collective moral ethos, business, entertainment.

- We have an electorate that is - quite frankly - stupid and immoral. Critical, objective thought has gone to the wind, as has education and civic aptitude. When most of the population don't know who their vice president is or can't name a single amendment in the Bill of Rights.

- Last but not least, as this author points out, WE'RE COMPLETELY BROKE. Yet spending and financial obligations are increasing exponentially.

It's not going to end well.

12 posted on 08/16/2011 7:06:48 AM PDT by AAABEST (Et lux in tenebris lucet: et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt)
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To: flowerplough

Once again, this brings the following to mind...
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.”

“A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.”

“From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”

“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years”

“During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. from bondage to spiritual faith;

2. from spiritual faith to great courage;

3. from courage to liberty;

4. from liberty to abundance;

5. from abundance to complacency;

6. from complacency to apathy;

7. from apathy to dependence;

8. From dependence back into bondage”


13 posted on 08/16/2011 7:18:33 AM PDT by saintgermaine
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To: Paladins Prayer
Just stopping by to say that I agree that this is all inevitable.

The political process isn't going to fix the social problems or the economic problems. I'm paying attention to the 2012 races and I'll most likely vote, but it's just a habit now. I don't think there is a solution down that path.

Government charity was a mistake. We should never have allowed anyone to become dependent on government handouts. Personal responsibility is the key to any well-functioning system.

The encroachment by the federal government into the affairs of the sovereign states was a mistake. A powerful central government is the enemy of Liberty.

The levels of debt under which we now labor cannot ever be reapid. They can only be cancelled. Debt is slavery. The government should never be allowed to make us slaves.

Government regulation of business sure sounds nice when you first hear about it, but in practice it hurts more than it helps. If you wants jobs and economic growth, you need to push government out of the way. Government is a detriment to good economics.

14 posted on 08/16/2011 7:22:06 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The USSR spent itself into bankruptcy and collapsed -- and aren't we on the same path now?)
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47 Days And FR Is Still Short Of Its Goal

We Are In A Fight For Our Republic

Are You In Or Are You Out?

Support Free Republic

15 posted on 08/16/2011 7:24:08 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: Scotsman will be Free
"If I recall from my reading I believe that it was Jefferson who wanted to limit the right to vote to real property owners. I agree with him."

So you'd deny the franchise to active duty and honorably discharged vets who happen to rent? What about people who have lost their real property due to eminent domain? Think they ought to have a say in the matter?

16 posted on 08/16/2011 7:30:36 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
I wouldn't want to be driving a BMW through the streets of Georgetown when the lid finally blows off.

You mean you think it will affect drug dealers too?

17 posted on 08/16/2011 7:31:29 AM PDT by Prokopton
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To: saintgermaine

got to bump this for a re-read


18 posted on 08/16/2011 7:35:03 AM PDT by Tomato lover (Prov 29:2 - 2: When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth)
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To: central_va
The Second Civil War will not be about secession, but rather a war of neighbor against neighbor and family member against family member. The Great Collapse will occur early on the watch of the next president. I will quote from a brief passage from Martin Armstrong's latest opus.

Either we end up with civil war under the Republicans who will cheat the worker who has paid into all this stuff or we will create a de facto new state of Communism with rising unemployment and declining economic growth [under the Democrats].

When the government checks stop coming and the food stamps run out, the clientele of the New Deal and Great Society will go on a rampage to correct all the perceived injustices of the world. The slaughter will be unimaginable.

19 posted on 08/16/2011 7:40:17 AM PDT by Publius
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To: Publius

I disagree. A failed and crumbling Federal Govt will have no effect on the individual states. Power would naturally diffuse to the state houses. IMO Your logic is faulty.


20 posted on 08/16/2011 7:47:05 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Paladins Prayer
A most excellent article. For those already familiar with the basic script, here's a handy mnemonic that summarizes the key elements:

-More government
-More deficits
-More debt
-More control

No society in history has ever re-traced. There is only one direction, and that is straight ahead until a wall is hit. Only until after a reset point is reached is there any chance for personal liberty to restored.

So bet on the "Four Mores" above. We won't have a hard default; rather, it will be controlled inflation. That way, the existing status quo remains in power. Welfare, Medicare, SS, the whole gamut of fed/state programs will remain in effect. It's just that their payouts will be pennies on the dollar. Same true for any savings denominated in dollars - all going to -0-.

And if you don't like it, so what? That's what the force of law is all about. Try to get out, try to protect your investments. You'll find out soon enough you actually live in a prison.

21 posted on 08/16/2011 7:50:55 AM PDT by semantic
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To: flowerplough

Starship Troopers?


22 posted on 08/16/2011 7:54:31 AM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: Sergio
Author of “Starship Troopers”, but the quote’s from a disgustingly weird science fiction he wrote about what I gather to be a beautiful, brilliant incestuous immortal and her friends and relations and her relations with her own father and son. “To Sail Beyond the Sunset”
23 posted on 08/16/2011 8:04:21 AM PDT by flowerplough (Pelosi on Republicans: "They want to destroy food safety, clean air, clean water, ...")
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To: mo

“Warren Harding figured it out in 1920...
BTW..ole Warren ALSO fixed immigration...”

Harding was able to make the changes he made because the America of the early 1920’s “looked completely different”, demographically speaking, than does the America of 2010.

It would be politically impossible to do what Harding did _today_. Can’t be done. No one is going to eliminate Social Security, or send twenty to thirty million illegals home.

I will go so far to argue that the America (and its electorate) that elected Reagan in 1980 no longer exists today. Things have simply changed too much, and gone too far.

I do agree with the author of the article that some kind of “collapse” is coming. But this isn’t without precedent in the modern-day world. The Soviet Union ran into the same wall back around 1989. What happened to that “union”? What exists today in its place?

I enjoyed your post about Harding — it reveals _how much_ things have changed since that simpler time..

Just observin’...


24 posted on 08/16/2011 8:25:05 AM PDT by Grumplestiltskin (I may look new, but it's only deja vu!)
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To: Texas resident

Ya know TX res that’s the part I just don’t get. If these people truly think that if they pull the country down around them, they, somehow, think that things remain the same for them? What is their plan to escape the chaos and danger from a well armed society? Serioulsy, I’d like a discusssion on that point alone.


25 posted on 08/16/2011 8:31:26 AM PDT by SaintDismas
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To: Paladins Prayer
Only National Collapse Will End America’s Spending Problem

Probably true unfortunately but this applies to the EU nations too. Gold is up today and this is a further vote against USA & European nations solving problems rationally fairly without collapse. Canada and Australia and New Zealand will not collapse

26 posted on 08/16/2011 8:33:01 AM PDT by dennisw (NZT -- works better if you're already smart)
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To: SaintDismas

They don’t things through.
I think it is just that simple.
They live in an insulated bubble of power and protection.
When the dims are in power, they institute programs that eventually either blow up or end up costing way more than their projections. They just don’t think long term. They think only out to the next election.


27 posted on 08/16/2011 8:37:44 AM PDT by Texas resident (Hunkered Down)
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To: Paladins Prayer

Agree 100%, these people are delusional, it’s going to take the cold shower of reality to wake them up.


28 posted on 08/16/2011 8:39:05 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: SaintDismas

Another thought on this.
The dims are intentionally wrecking the economy and are not giving any thought to their children or grandchildren. Their offspring will have to live in the country they construct/destruct today. Not all the politicians kids will end up in positions of power and protection.


29 posted on 08/16/2011 8:44:07 AM PDT by Texas resident (Hunkered Down)
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To: Grumplestiltskin
I will go so far to argue that the America (and its electorate) that elected Reagan in 1980 no longer exists today. Things have simply changed too much, and gone too far.

Reagan was elected by a huge population of WWII veterans (many of them former Democrats) who are no longer with us. Our "mature voices" today grew up in the 60's.

There wasn't much of a constituency for taking a limited amount of pain in 2001. There is even less of a constituency for taking a moderate amount of pain in 2011. Therefore, many, many people are going to be experiencing intense pain in the next few years. The best we can hope for is that the major war that is necessary to reset the global economy hurts Europe more than the USA.

30 posted on 08/16/2011 8:54:41 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ( "The right to offend is far more important than any right not to be offended." - Rowan Atkinson)
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To: Joe 6-pack

Maybe an exception for vets, like the book by Heinlein, Starship Troopers. No renters. That’s just more people that can vote to raise my property taxes, for starters.
People with a stake in the matter take their responsibilities more seriously. I’d say a vet has a stake in the matter.


31 posted on 08/16/2011 12:05:02 PM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: Scotsman will be Free

Quite a trick since Jefferson didn’t attend the Constitutional Convention. In fact, he wanted to give away the unclaimed land in Virginia to those who had none.

Here is a link to Madison’s notes from the constitution when it was discussed, http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/mchenry.asp

Franklin’s argument carried the day.

“An English ship was taken by one of our men of war. It was proposed to the English sailors to join ours in a cruise and share alike with th[e]m in the captures. They immediately agreed to the proposal. This difference of behavior arises from the operation of freedom in America, and the laws in England. One British Statute excluded a number of subjects from a suffrage. These immediately became slaves.”


32 posted on 08/16/2011 3:29:09 PM PDT by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: Joe 6-pack

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2764370/posts?page=32#32


33 posted on 08/16/2011 3:32:35 PM PDT by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: SaintDismas

Don’t discount simple arrogance. They really, really, really think we can’t get by without them.


34 posted on 08/16/2011 3:35:02 PM PDT by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: MontaniSemperLiberi

What is quite a trick?


35 posted on 08/16/2011 6:15:12 PM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: Paladins Prayer

Sadly, I agree.


36 posted on 08/16/2011 6:22:30 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th (Proud to be a (small) monthly donor.)
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To: Paladins Prayer

The author is right except where he makes a prediction saying that something “will” happen and call it a “fact”.


37 posted on 08/16/2011 6:28:04 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Correct on all points! Couldn’t have said it better myself.


38 posted on 08/16/2011 6:59:30 PM PDT by angelrod
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To: central_va
I disagree. A failed and crumbling Federal Govt will have no effect on the individual states. Power would naturally diffuse to the state houses. IMO Your logic is faulty.

Not really. Government at ALL levels is filled with evil, sadistic humans, who relish making the lives of the productive citizens a living hell. The parasite class is quickly destroying our Republic. Just recently, my neighbor who owns a small auto repair shop had a state parasite visit and demand to see some paperwork (I think insurance related) His office worker was out that day, so he had to locate it (wasn't a license or such that has to be displayed).

He finally found the document. Yesterday, my neighbor received a citation for $100.00!! The citation was issued because there is some insane rule that the information needed to be located within 10 minutes. It took him over ten minutes to find the required information. Now, tell me, is that insane!!!

These parasites have no conscience.

These evil humans have the same inner core as the Nazi camp workers. Nothing on this Earth will convince me they are less evil. These parasites get off on causing misery.

God forbid there is a total collapse, but if there is, I pray Patriots will bring a special justice to these utterly evil subhumans.

39 posted on 08/16/2011 8:34:14 PM PDT by sand88 (Sarah Palin announces: August 12, Opps!! didn't happen :)
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To: sand88
Not really. Government at ALL levels is filled with evil, sadistic humans,

I think relief, if it comes, will be found at the state level.

40 posted on 08/17/2011 3:20:52 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: flowerplough

I will have to see if “To Sail Beyond the Sunset” is still available at the Borders clearance. Books are going for 30% off. Thanks for the reply and sorry for my delay in getting back to you.


41 posted on 08/17/2011 2:08:34 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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