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Perry calls idea of U.S.-Mexico border wall ‘ridiculous’
MSNBC ^ | August 17, 2011 | Sarah Blackwill and Domenico Montanaro

Posted on 08/17/2011 10:42:50 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

Rick Perry called the idea of a wall across the entire U.S.-Mexico border “ridiculous” today in a stop in New Hampshire.

“You got strategic fencing in some of the metropolitan areas – it’s very helpful,” the Texas governor said. “But the idea that you’re going to build a wall from Brownsville to El Paso is just -- it’s ridiculous on its face.”

That was in the context of Perry saying how he'd asked Washington for 1,000 National Guard troops and how current efforts at border security are ineffective.

Perry swatted at the Obama administration’s assertion that the “border is safer than it’s ever been.”

“Six week ago, the president went to El Paso and sai the border is safer than it’s ever been,” Perry began. “I have no idea, maybe he was talking about the Canadian border. I will assure you one thing, if I’m president of the United States, the border will be secure.”

(Excerpt) Read more at firstread.msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnestyperryyes; border; borderfence; bordersecurity; gorescampaignmanager; illegals; immigrantlist; mexico; obl; openborders; perry; rickperry; rionfreeamerica
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
What would be the problem with building a manned fence from Brownsville to San Diego?

The problem with building a fence is that, although it stops casual crossings, it isn't a significant deterrent to efforts to cross the border, and it can't be erected as a "set it and forget it" solution. Any kind of fence you might build would have to be maintained, and it would have to be monitored 24/7/365 by surveillance methods that, either directly or indirectly involve human agents who are both in position, and equipped to make interdiction.

In more urban or suburban areas, fences are effective at stopping casual crossings, but a cursory scan of headlines going back over the past several years will net you story after story of tunnels being discovered crossing the international border, and you just can't set a fence foundation deep enough to stop that. You make it 100 feet deep, and you'll find tunnels at 110.

To be quite honest, I wanted a fence myself for several years, but consideration of the manpower issue has set me back off of that idea in all but populous areas. You look at the Berlin Wall; as impenetrable as that thing was, it still had to be manned 24/7/365 along its entire length. Who are we fooling to think that a border fence constructed with opposite intent would require any lesser degree of monitoring? Yes, so the bulk of monitoring function could be wired electronics and sensors, but the glaring reality is that all of those sensors can be set in place without a fence to hang them on, and they all still need to report status to some adequate number of human beings tasked with monitoring them and responding to breaches.

Since that is the reality of the situation, I think it would be smarter to just put the well-equipped humans in position 24/7/365, set up arrays of solar-powered sensors to give them real-time information about border activity, and forego the expense of erecting thousands of miles of fencing. If we did it that way, we could even get a good number of tree huggers on-board with tougher border enforcement because these methods don't create a conspicuous eyesore that slices across the landscape.

Finally, human monitors could be dispatched to the border in a matter of days, and sensor networks emplaced and functioning in a matter of weeks. By contrast, there is no reason to hope that a government-built fence — eve if it were begun today — would be complete by the time my toddler graduates High School.

The bottom line is this: Gov. Perry isn't out of his tree in dismissing the idea of fencing off the entire southern border; the arguments backing him up are pretty compelling, and that is something you've got to admit even if you don't come to the same conclusion that he has.

101 posted on 08/17/2011 11:59:49 AM PDT by HKMk23 (YHVH NEVER PLAYS DEFENSE)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

And lots of concertina wire.


102 posted on 08/17/2011 11:59:49 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Polybius; All

A small fence separates densely populated Tijuana, Mexico, right, from the United States in the Border Patrol's San Diego Sector. Construction is underway to extend a secondary fence over the top of this hill and eventually to the Pacific Ocean.


El Paso (foreground) and Juarez (background) are on the front line of a border war between law enforcement and Mexican cartels.


Nogales, Arizona - Nogales, Sonora


Members of the Mexican Federal Police guard over 105 tonnes of marijuana in the border town of Tijuana, Mexico. Mexico's largest ever haul of packaged marijuana could be even more than an estimated 105 tonnes and was likely taken from the Sinaloa drug gang - Oct 2010.


Rio Grand River Gorge


Rio Grande River, international border, Texas


A recently constructed section of the controversial US-Mexico border fence expansion project crosses previously pristine desert sands at sunrise on March 14, 2009 between Yuma, Arizona and Calexico, California. A top Homeland Security official told a House panel that the department could ultimately respond to escalating violence of warring Mexican drug cartels by deploying military personnel and equipment to the region. 6,290 people were killed in the violence in Mexico in 2008, according to Mexican officials, and more than 1,000 in the first eight weeks of this year. Hundreds of kidnappings in Phoenix during the same time period were blamed on the drug trade. The new barrier between the US and Mexico stands 15 feet tall and sits on top of the sand so it can lifted by a machine and repositioned whenever the migrating desert dunes begin to bury it. The almost seven miles of floating fence cost about $6 million per mile to build.

103 posted on 08/17/2011 12:02:25 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: mad_as_he$$

Yes good fences make good neighbors.


104 posted on 08/17/2011 12:05:29 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: squarebarb
I have family that lives as far South in Texas as you can. I know the area well. I have solutions for the water issue. I am not posting them anywhere because I expect they will be worth money at some point. Yes, some of the farm(ranch) land would be lost on our side. Small trade off for border security. People loose property to eminent domain every day in this country. It sucks but is usually good for the great number of people.

Have you watched the show Border Wars on Nat Geo? They have several episodes about patrolling the river. Very ineffective.

105 posted on 08/17/2011 12:08:11 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (White Feather owns the field.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
  • Deport illegal aliens on contact with LE.
  • Enforce the law vigorously on employers of illegals.
  • Strong border security. Build the physical fence and use high-tech surveillance.
  • Eliminate entitlements for illegal aliens except for true emergency care.
  • End the "anchor baby" policy.

Do those things and illegal aliens would deport themselves muy pronto!

Points 1,2,4 & 5 would probably make the fence nearly unnecessary. Would Perry or any other pol be willing to do them?

106 posted on 08/17/2011 12:09:29 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Perdogg
I am NOT in favor of open borders, but I am against either a wall or a fence for technical reasons and because of the expense.

What percentage of the "stimulus" would have effectively sealed our border? And all money that would have been spent in the U.S.

107 posted on 08/17/2011 12:12:06 PM PDT by Prokopton
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To: allmendream

I didn’t say get rid of CA, I just said let’s wall it off and only let certain people out. Look how the granola eating, environmental whining, animal rights socialists have spread across the continent!! First to AZ and OR and WA, then on to NM, CO....and so on.....YIKES!


108 posted on 08/17/2011 12:12:55 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Rio Grand River Gorge

That's about 10 miles NW of Taos, NM. Doesn't have much to do with the Mexican border.

109 posted on 08/17/2011 12:14:39 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye
And secure the border.

End the "anchor baby" policy

This one seems like a no-brainer to me.

110 posted on 08/17/2011 12:15:26 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: TigersEye

Thanks. It wasn’t real descriptive. But it does give a good idea of a lot of open nothing and rugged terrain.


111 posted on 08/17/2011 12:16:45 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
FWIW I think quite a bit of the Rio Grande between TX and Mexico is also rather difficult terrain. If you're ever near Taos though it is worth driving out to see the Rio Grande Gorge.

Rio Grande Gorge Bridge

Walking out on the bridge and looking down is fun. You can feel the bridge vibrate as cars and trucks go by behind you.

112 posted on 08/17/2011 12:22:45 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Art in Idaho
It is ridiculous....put up the Aerostat system that Lockheed Martin builds.

This would allow a far deeper notification of illegals attempting to cross the border than a wall provides.

I can give a noticeable advance on intel that can preposition assets to meet the intruders.

A wall only tries to keep them out at the border itself.

It's a tethered blimp with all weather intel packages that can provide foreknowledge as to what is happening.

This is smart....not a wall.

And no, I don't own any LM stock.

113 posted on 08/17/2011 12:28:19 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

What does Texas spend on these Border felons,How many Billions???


114 posted on 08/17/2011 12:31:18 PM PDT by Cheetahcat ( November 4 2008 ,A date that will live in Infamy.)
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To: TigersEye
Walking out on the bridge and looking down is fun. You can feel the bridge vibrate as cars and trucks go by behind you.

LOL. I like the view from this angle. We do take a lot of road trips around the U.S. This looks like a good trip idea. Thanks.

115 posted on 08/17/2011 12:31:29 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: SUSSA; maddog55; Berlin_Freeper
Perry’s right.. we should however set up about a two mile wide DMZ, razor wire ans shoot anything coming across. .... Right, but it should include a mine field as well. We have kept illegal aliens out of South Korea for more than 50 years. We can keep them out of the US as well.

The Korean DMZ is 160 miles wide. The U.S. Mexican border is 1,969 miles.

I've had personal experience with mine fields as a result of my Navy tour at Guantanamo and minefields extract a high cost.

First of all, minefields are Equal Opportunity and blow up anything that wanders into them from drunk American sailors who don't see the minefield signs at night (a tragic incident before my tour when sailors off a visiting warship accidentally wandered into the mine fields) to any stray animals (deer in Cuba or cattle in Texas).

Secondly, mine fields are high maintenance. They need actual American servicemen to go in there and keep it serviceable. I had a several Minefield Maintenance Marines come into my Sick Call, their nerves shot, begging me to give them a medical excuse to change duties.

Thirdly, Minefield Maintenance sh#t happens. One Marine on Minefield Maintenence was flow into my ER, legs blown off below the groin by a Bouncing Betty that he accidentally activated. No, he did not make it.

Minefields may sound really cool in theory but they are extremely nasty things in real life.

Ain't gonna happen on the U.S. border.


Marine Barracks Minefield Maintenance personnel unload deactivated anti-tank and anti-personnel land mines for destruction at a demolition site on Naval Station Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, March 18, 1997

116 posted on 08/17/2011 12:34:13 PM PDT by Polybius (Defeating Obama is Priority Number One)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"They're constantly finding these too."

Look the can mine the entire sea with listening devices,it would be a simple matter to keep tabs on the earth, beneath the wall!

117 posted on 08/17/2011 12:34:27 PM PDT by Cheetahcat ( November 4 2008 ,A date that will live in Infamy.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Giving OUR country away to the third world,Is a NON Starter for me.

America is for Americans!

118 posted on 08/17/2011 12:36:36 PM PDT by Cheetahcat ( November 4 2008 ,A date that will live in Infamy.)
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To: Cheetahcat

If “they” can keep tabs on what’s going on UNDER the ground, they can damn well know what’s going on above the ground without building a 2000 mile wall across the continent.


119 posted on 08/17/2011 12:38:27 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Artemis Webb

ever see one of these?

http://www.city-data.com/picfilesc/picc27696.php

‘its the wall we are looking for’


120 posted on 08/17/2011 12:40:38 PM PDT by jbp1 (be nice now)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
The problem with a fence on the Texas-Mexico border is the river.

The California, Arizona and New Mexico borders are easy enough to fence. With few exceptions (Tijuana, Mexicali, Nogales) the border is simply a line in the Sonora Desert. There's literally nothing but cactus on either side of the border. A fence doesn't block access to anything of value -- for either people or animals.

The Texas-Mexico border, however, is different. It's defined not by a desert -- it's defined by a river. And, as any geographer can tell you, rivers make bad borders -- they're subject to heavy access and use on both sides.

Commercial traffic across the river in Texas is immense. El Paso counts on Juarez. Laredo counts on Nuevo Laredo. Del Rio counts on Ciudad Acuna, Brownsville counts on Matamoros, etc. There is no way to effectively stem the traffic between the city pairs.

But the river represents a bigger problem outside the cities. For 1248 miles, the river wanders through the desert -- and usually represents the only water source within 50 miles. Much of the borderland is rugged and uninhabited. But much of it is ranch land, as well, or heavily cultivated farm land in the valley.

How do you fence off a water resource under these circumstances? On both sides of the border, ranchers (and their livestock) and farmers (and their crops) depend on access to the river.

I'm all in favor of "securing the border". But, in Texas, a fence isn't necessarily the way to do it.

121 posted on 08/17/2011 12:48:07 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance On Parade)
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To: okie01

Thank you for taking the time to explain that.

Bump!


122 posted on 08/17/2011 12:50:13 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: TigersEye
That's about 10 miles NW of Taos, NM. Doesn't have much to do with the Mexican border.

On the other hand, it looks pretty much like Mariscal Canyon in the Big Bend -- which is a little narrower and a little deeper.

I've canoed Mariscal, though, but I wouldn't attempt The Gorge.

123 posted on 08/17/2011 12:51:04 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance On Parade)
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To: Artemis Webb

A GOP president who instead gives a ‘path to citizenship’ to the 30 million-plus illegals here will probably be the last GOP president we ever have.


124 posted on 08/17/2011 12:54:03 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: bcsco

Yep


125 posted on 08/17/2011 12:54:16 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Polybius

Would you do away with them in Cuba and Korea too? Reagan expanded the mine fields in Korea allowing him to pull out thousands of troops.

I’ll bow to your first hand knowledge. I just wonder why we keep using them if they are so bad. It seems to me that if we use them to protect Guantanamo and Korea they would work to protect the homeland.

BTW Thank you for serving.


126 posted on 08/17/2011 12:54:53 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Looks like a shovel ready job if there ever was one. We’re not talking about rocket science here. But just in case this is too technologically advanced for Perry to handle he could always hire all the recently laid off NASA Shuttle employees.

I mean we’re not talking about a giant suspension bridge between Marin County CA and San Francisco or perhaps some goofy idea like a dam across the Colorado River out in the mountainous terrain of the American Southwest. We know Americans are far too stupid for major accomplishments such as these. But if push comes to shove we’ll do what we seem to do best now a days: hire the Chinese. Seems I read somewhere they know how to build very large walls across very long distances.


127 posted on 08/17/2011 12:58:38 PM PDT by Graneros ("It is no exaggeration to say that the undecided could go one way or another.")
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To: allmendream
Which State was the first to elect that ideological fire brand Ronald Reagan? What State does Free Republic come from?

Politically, California was a very different place when it elected Reagan than it is now. It also used to elect Republican senators and mayors of major cities.

Many people want to make some present day comparisons to Reagan's era and none of them really fit. Times have changed.

128 posted on 08/17/2011 1:04:58 PM PDT by Will88
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To: Arec Barrwin

Not viable because of all the PC BS this country has shoved down it’s throat.

It’s a perfect solution as far as I’m concerned... anyone coming across should be considered hostile and eliminated.


129 posted on 08/17/2011 1:06:58 PM PDT by maddog55 (OBAMA: Why stupid people shouldn't vote.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I know there are a whole lot of Texans living in that area that are COMPLETELY against a fence. IF I remember correctly...they say it will ruin their area of Texas. I am going to go look and see if I can find an article on it...but it was quite revealing and surprising they felt that way.


130 posted on 08/17/2011 1:13:24 PM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: Artemis Webb

Rick Perry has been aiding and increasing illegal immigration with laws like the Texas Dream and his sanctuary cities. If he was serious he would cut out the sanctuary cities and then start nailing those who hire them. You cut out the jobs, they will deport themselves.


131 posted on 08/17/2011 1:13:31 PM PDT by allsouthern
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To: Puckster
. . put up the Aerostat system that Lockheed Martin builds. . This is smart....not a wall.

Sounds good. A combination of various types of "walls/fences/systems" sounds like the way to go. That's what I was mainly alluding too. Our best minds could certainly make this happen. It's the will thing again. To rephrase my comment: The majority of the American people want a border security system that works. That's all.

132 posted on 08/17/2011 1:14:55 PM PDT by Art in Idaho (Conservatism is the only hope for Western Civilization.)
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To: Artemis Webb
Mexican drug traffickers/people smugglers are building 1/2 mile long underground tunnels and people think a 10ft tall fence is going to stop them?

Perry is right on this one, and I love your simple yet brilliant post/picture.

133 posted on 08/17/2011 1:15:21 PM PDT by A Texan (Oderint dum metuant)
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To: Will88
No kidding. It is also a different place politically from when we recalled a Dem governor and replaced him with a Republican who we had high hopes for - only to have those hopes dashed with Rino business as usual out of Sac-town.
134 posted on 08/17/2011 1:17:14 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Here's is one article. Border Fence Strands Some Texans in 'No Man's Land'
135 posted on 08/17/2011 1:21:08 PM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: okie01
The Texas-Mexico border, however, is different. It's defined not by a desert -- it's defined by a river. And, as any geographer can tell you, rivers make bad borders -- they're subject to heavy access and use on both sides.

There is a big part of the problem right there, with you and all the apologists for Perry's de facto open borders policies. It is not the Texas-Mexico border, but the US-Mexico border. But that Texas-Mexico border state-of-mind is the reason GHWB and GWB and Juan McCain and many other border state politicians are such a liability, even a danger to the rest of the USA.

Border state politicians can't get beyond their narrow, pandering Tex-Mex view of the problem and they end up inflicting their narrow view and all the problems that accompany it on all the non-border states in the US.

And now you even advocate putting the priority of some rach above the prioty of the rest of the fifty states.

Can folks see why it is such a danger to the rest of the US to allow border state politicians and residents to determine immigration and border enforcement policies???

136 posted on 08/17/2011 1:21:32 PM PDT by Will88
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To: allmendream

I think you actually replaced a recalled Dim governor with a celebrity who ran as a Republican. Many had high hopes for Whitman and Fiorina, but I don’t what it will take for a Republican to win again in a statewide race in California.


137 posted on 08/17/2011 1:25:39 PM PDT by Will88
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To: Polybius
Watch the video at Post 51 of illegals jumping the fence like jackrabbits and blow-torching through the Fence. It makes no sense at all. So, the U.S. Government builds the Fence for $3 Billion to keep trucks from driving though. How could you possibly counteract that? It's not Rocket Science.

And it's not rocket science to know that they never put up the fence they were supposed to...and were funded to do. Actually, Bush only spent $200 million, and built far, far less than he was supposed to...because he DIDN'T WANT to stop illegal alien incursions into the U.S. We all know that. He was a fake on national security.

Check out this story:

Where U.S.-Mexico border fence is tall, border crossings fall

In Yuma, Ariz., border patrol agents tout the success of a high triple-and double-layered wall. But such a fence is unlikely to stretch the entire border.

By Daniel B. Wood, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor / April 1, 2008

Yuma, Ariz. US border patrol agent Michael Bernacke guns his SUV down the wide desert-sand road that lines the US-Mexican border through urban San Luis, Ariz.

To his right stands a steel wall, 20 feet high and reinforced by cement-filled steel piping. To his left another tall fence of steel mesh. Ten yards beyond, a shorter cyclone fence is topped with jagged concertina wire. Visible to the north, through the gauze of fencing are the homes and businesses of this growing Southwest suburbia of 22,000 people.

"This wall works," says Mr. Bernacke. "A lot of people have the misconception that it is a waste of time and money, but the numbers of apprehensions show that it works."

The triple-and double-layered fence here in Yuma is the kind of barrier that US lawmakers – and most Americans – imagined when the Secure Fence Act was enacted in 2006.

The law instructed the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to secure about one-third of the 1,950-mile border between US and Mexico with 700 miles of double-layered fencing – and additionally through cameras, motion sensors, and other types of barriers – by the end of the year to stem illegal immigration.

Bankrolled by a separate $1.2 billion homeland security bill, the Secure Fence Act would, President Bush said in 2006, "make our borders more secure." By most recent estimates, nearly half a million unauthorized immigrants cross the border each year.

On the ground, though, things have turned out differently.

The DHS scaled back its ambitions early on, trimming its end-of-2008 target down to 300 miles of vehicle barrier and 370 miles of pedestrian barrier.

As of February, 302 miles of barrier have been constructed mostly on federal land in Arizona, New Mexico, and California, and slightly over half of this has been built under the new law.

Just $200 million will have been spent by June, according to Lloyd Easterling, the border patrol public information officer.

Only a fraction of the new barriers resemble anything like the images of formidable fencing – the Berlin Wall or the bleak monolith that divides Israel and the West Bank – envisioned by the initial proposal. Most of the new fencing is not a double wall, but a combination of regular vehicle blocks and pedestrian barriers that range from metal mesh and chain link to traditional picket fences.

And partly because of resistance from local landowners, the December deadline would be tough to meet, US government auditors have warned.

Yuma's formidable fence

In Yuma, at least, the fence seems to be preventing illegal border-crossings.

Bernacke, the patrol agent, says that since the triple fence was finished in October, there has been a 72 percent decline in illegal migrant apprehensions in the 120-mile swath of the US-Mexican border known as the Yuma sector. Eight hundred people used to be apprehended trying to cross the border here every day. Now, agents catch 50 people or fewer daily.

The 1.5-mile strip of triple fencing that cuts through suburban San Luis is the most impenetrable, says Bernacke.

That's because the three walls are separated here by a 75-yard "no man's land" – a flat, sandy corridor punctuated by pole-topped lighting, cameras, radio systems, and radar units, where unauthorized migrants can be chased down by border agents.

And BTW: The Fences were never to be totally independent in their stopping the incursions...there were primarily to HELP the patrols principally by helping detectability, and delaying the speed of crossings, and limiting the mobility and viabilities of the intruders. And the example herin obviously shows it works. Time to fully enforce the Law, that Bush and Obama are violating.


138 posted on 08/17/2011 1:26:40 PM PDT by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
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To: Art in Idaho
I agree......I like the Aerostat system because it reaches south farther than anything giving time to act upon illegal insurgents.

I really don't have any problem with them coming here...let's just make it legal, eliminate the riffraff.

I'm back from Kandahar, Afghanistan, having finished a contract there and I will be going back onto the Aerostat system with LM.

It is a very capable system.

A system capable of forewarning means fewer prepositioned assets needed to respond to whatever situation arises.

Indeed, Perry is right, a wall is stupid.

They'd be able to respond in a timely manner when the damn Mexican army wonders across the border with sufficient resources to eventually discourage this crap.

139 posted on 08/17/2011 1:27:52 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

You post some really good links....thanks.


140 posted on 08/17/2011 1:29:16 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: Will88
My dear. It is the Federal government's responsibility to secure the border. What is "non" border state politician Obama doing about it but turning his back on Rick Perry when he went to meet him on the tarmac in Austin with a letter -- after being denied a meeting?


Texas Gov. Rick Perry tries to deliver to Obama a letter expressing border security concerns. Photo by Jay Janner/Austin American-Statesman/ Aug 9, 2010

His letter was handed to Valerie Jarrett (in pink suit).

141 posted on 08/17/2011 1:31:16 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: okie01
Perry is right a fence in Texas isn't the solution.

Border Fence Failings

snip...

To some Texas folks, a border fence seemed like a good idea before it was built. As a solution toward preventing millions of illegal immigrants, Mexican and otherwise, from entering the United States, it appeared a simple answer, relieving pressure on overburdened American hospitals, prisons, and schools. It promised the added bonus of stopping the unstaunchable flow of illegal drugs and corresponding crime and violence from Mexico. The reality fell far from the speculation.

Most folks, quite reasonably, assume the fence is actually on the border. In some parts of Arizona, California, or New Mexico, where the border is “dirt to dirt,” that is true, but not in Texas. The fence does not follow the border, but was placed largely on a levee built to prevent flooding from the Rio Grande. The meandering river, area topography, the levee system, and political considerations combined to result in fence placement that is, in some places, as much as two miles from the border. As a national security tool it’s a bad joke — full of gaps and in some places non-existent. But it’s no joke to the Texans affected by it — namely those whose homes and businesses are trapped in a no-man’s land between the fence and the river/border. The people could leave, but their homes and businesses can’t. Where would they go?

snip...

142 posted on 08/17/2011 1:32:24 PM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: Will88; allmendream

The CAGOP decided who would win and they eliminated the conservative, Tom McClintock. He had a real shot at winning until he was torpedoed by the CAGOP and the “celebrity”.

I will give Arnold some credit, he made some efforts to correct some of the problems in Sacramento. But he couldn’t overcome the massive amounts of spending the unions and statists and his reforms were soundly defeated.

A true conservative stands a shot since there are many DTS and Independents in this state that can swing an election.


143 posted on 08/17/2011 1:33:35 PM PDT by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
A recently constructed section of the controversial US-Mexico border fence expansion project crosses previously pristine desert sands at sunrise

Not so pristine where they are crossing:


144 posted on 08/17/2011 1:35:08 PM PDT by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
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To: DrewsMum

You might have a point if the fence at your house met the following criteria:

1) It enclosed the entirity of the house, including all doors and windows, not just the backyard/backdoor.

2) Your home’s fence was set up to keep intruders out.

Since neither scenario is likely, then your analogy (while you acknowledge sarcasm) is just silly.

The problem with a fence is four-fold:

Tunnels
Ladders
Coastline
Canada

With those four options existing, a fence will not shut down the border. And we dont need a fence. We need to protect border ranchers from violent gangs and we need to uphold the law in the interior.


145 posted on 08/17/2011 1:35:51 PM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Paul Ross

It’s awful. Where are the environmentalists?!


146 posted on 08/17/2011 1:37:02 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Paul Ross

Nice pictures of the trash the illegals leave...it’d be nice if you’d identify where that is. Doesn’t look like Texas.


147 posted on 08/17/2011 1:39:16 PM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: Art in Idaho

I would say so.

He’s not the guy.

I’m sick and tired of these politicians deciding what parts of the Constitution they can pay attention to or ignore.

The Federal government is supposed to protect each state from invasion.

Doesn’t have to be a hostile invasion.
Doesn’t make a bit of difference if it’s a passive invasion.

ANY INVASION!!!!


148 posted on 08/17/2011 1:39:31 PM PDT by djf (One of the few FReepers who NEVER clicked the "dead weasel" thread!! But may not last much longer...)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; All
"Build it and they will come"

[climb over, tunnel under or cut it]

149 posted on 08/17/2011 1:41:45 PM PDT by potlatch (They that sow the wind shall reap the whirlwind......)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

What Perry says will secure the border will not secure the border unless he plans to have tens of thousands of troops on the border 24/7/365 and 366 during Leap Years.

Since that will never happen, the only thing that will secure the border is hundreds of miles of double fencing with adequate personnel and the use of drones and other electronic means. All around the world where nations are serious about stopping illegal border crossings, we see serious fences and walls and personnel used together.

Perry’s talk of border security is about as reliable as Juan McCain’s. And his babbling on this subject will hurt his chances significantly. And his supporters here make it seem even more ridiculous


150 posted on 08/17/2011 1:44:52 PM PDT by Will88
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