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To: Vigilanteman

So? The J-1s don’t have to pay the employee side, either. And, quite frankly, it doesn’t make that much difference because what matters is not who writes the check, but who loses the economic value, when a tax is paid, and as numerous studies have found, the employees generally end up bearing the economic burden of the payroll taxes, regardless of who has to write the check to Uncle Sugar.

In other words, even though those employers don’t have to write those checks, they aren’t significantly better off in terms of wealth than the employers who do have to write those checks because, at the end of the day, it’s the employees who are bearing the loss of wealth that goes to pay those taxes.


37 posted on 08/18/2011 8:33:55 PM PDT by Oceander (The phrase "good enough for government work" is not meant as a compliment)
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To: Oceander
. . . at the end of the day, it’s the employees who are bearing the loss of wealth that goes to pay those taxes.

So are you trying to say that employers who don't have to pay the tab for a J-1's social security, thereby reducing their costs by 8% or so, do not have an incentive to hire J-1's over locals?

I would disagree strongly because the employer's costs are thus reduced and he does NOT have to share that increase in wealth with the employee.

Some of the purists have accused me of socialist thinking for application of the realities of labor economics to real life.

They argue that open borders are a good thing because they reduce costs across the board which benefit everyone. Juan McCain is one of them who holds out the prospect of unaffordable lettuce in the grocery stores if we have to pay lettuce pickers $50 per hour.

That's an idiotic argument on at least three counts:

  1. You would be able to attract quality lettuce pickers at considerably less than $50 per hour, either from locals, legitimate guest workers, invention of new technologies (like mechanical harvesting), more imported lettuce or whatever.
  2. Labor makes up a tiny fraction of the cost of a head of lettuce. Supposing a slow harvesting pace of 5 heads a minute and McCain's pie-in-the sky wage of $50/hour, You would add about 17 cents per head of lettuce.
  3. Finally-- and this is the key-- the open borders advocates never calculate the costs their policies impose on society at large. I shouldn't even have to list them. I will concede that since J-1's are specifically healthy young people from a variety of countries, the social service costs may be minimal. But I wouldn't care to calculate the resentment costs of young people who were promised an American cultural experience and were exploited in the manners described.

Years ago, my sister worked in Grand Canyon National Park in the summer. By the time that food and dorm fees were deducted, she ended up with a little less than minimum wage. She still considered it a great experience because the hours were reasonable as were the meals and dorm fees. Somehow, I don't thank that is the case here. Kids from the Ukraine do not come to America infused with the same bloated sense of entitlement as does your average Section 8 housing occupant. But I could be wrong . . .

52 posted on 08/19/2011 8:00:58 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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