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Ruben Rosario: Will the death penalty endure? Not if this attorney can help it
Pioneer Press ^ | 8-19-11 | rube rosario

Posted on 08/19/2011 7:26:26 PM PDT by WOBBLY BOB

Wells, like many attorneys who plunge into this protracted and rewarding but frustrating legal venture, is morally and philosophically opposed to the death penalty. Although 34 states have it, there are other reasons Minnesota should continue to oppose it.

Several credible national studies conclude, and nearly 90 percent of the nation's top criminologists in a recent survey agree, that the death penalty has very little, if any, effect at all on deterring violent crime. So agrees the law enforcement community. A national poll of police chiefs placed it dead last, pun intended, on ways to reduce violent crime. The chiefs also consider it the least efficient use of taxpayer money.

(Excerpt) Read more at twincities.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; US: Minnesota
KEYWORDS: attorney; criminologists; death; deathpenalty; legal; penalty; punishment; wells
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FWIW, Ruben is the the Press's resident author of numerous left-leaning criminal justice sob stories.
1 posted on 08/19/2011 7:26:32 PM PDT by WOBBLY BOB
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Some people just need killin.


2 posted on 08/19/2011 7:31:50 PM PDT by allmost
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To: WOBBLY BOB

The scumbag might feel differently if his closest relatives were brutalized and murdered by the animals he loves. Otherwise this pitiful cockroach will continue to whistle past the graveyards of murder victims.


3 posted on 08/19/2011 7:33:19 PM PDT by Luke21
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Even though I am a strong advocate of the death penalty, I would be open to a life sentence. Let them live in the hell that is life in a penitentiary, then when they die ... the ultimate life sentence.


4 posted on 08/19/2011 7:34:39 PM PDT by doc1019 (You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.)
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To: allmost

I don’t know if the death penalty stops people from killin’. I just know it stops them from killin’ again.-Elvis Presley


5 posted on 08/19/2011 7:35:51 PM PDT by boop ("Let's just say they'll be satisfied with LESS"... Ming the Merciless)
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To: Luke21

If only someone could arrange for ol’ Rube to encounter some of his poor downtrodden murderers.


6 posted on 08/19/2011 7:36:15 PM PDT by Pelham ("Resist we much!" - Al 'Jiffypop' Sharpton)
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To: doc1019

The problem is that governors and laws change, which means that the killers could end up eligible for parole. Look at how the Manson women are eligible, how Charles Manson comes up for parole every so often.


7 posted on 08/19/2011 7:39:17 PM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: allmost

“Some people just need killin.”

Perhaps including that attorney.

/sarc


8 posted on 08/19/2011 7:39:50 PM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: WOBBLY BOB

I oppose the death penalty for practical reasons. That said, I am not sad when a scumbag meats his demise.


9 posted on 08/19/2011 7:40:23 PM PDT by Paradox (Obnoxious, Bumbling, Absurd, Maladroit, Assinine)
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To: Niuhuru

Good point.


10 posted on 08/19/2011 7:42:00 PM PDT by doc1019 (You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.)
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To: boop
"I don’t know if the death penalty stops people from killin’. I just know it stops them from killin’ again.-Elvis Presley"

OMG, did the King really say that? The issue has never been so simply stated.

11 posted on 08/19/2011 7:42:09 PM PDT by ArchAngel1983 (Arch Angel- on guard / Still Think You're Free?)
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To: boop

There ya goe gettin awl elvis on mu.


12 posted on 08/19/2011 7:43:30 PM PDT by allmost
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To: doc1019
"open to a life sentence"

Not me. How much does it cost us to pay for prison-space, food, clothing, medication, entertainment, guards, utilities, maintenance... and on, and on - to house murderers for the rest of their lives? Facts are tough things to refute, but from my understanding we pay in the multiple billions of tax dollars to coddle these criminals.

Don't think for a minute that we don't coddle them, hell they get free books, tv's, radios, and 'hobby materials' to play with every day (the list is long and maddening.)

13 posted on 08/19/2011 7:47:25 PM PDT by Ron C.
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To: Paradox

I oppose the death penalty for practical reasons
Charging the public for life sentences is more practical?
14 posted on 08/19/2011 7:47:25 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
Charging the public to coddle known killers for the rest of their lives is an insult to intelligence, and our pocketbook.

Give us back Judge Roy Bean - he hung all convicted killers the morning following his death sentence. Best way to handle that, imho - at NO cost to the public.

Should be a national law - no state able to opt-out.

15 posted on 08/19/2011 7:52:18 PM PDT by Ron C.
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To: WOBBLY BOB
What a bunch of BS. Let's get Old Sparky fired up. So many filthy dirt bags, so little time.

Wesley Cook aka Mumia Abu Jamal

16 posted on 08/19/2011 7:54:30 PM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: Ron C.

Someone actually posted something here about that. It cost more to continually defend someone from the death penalty then to just pay for their continued housing in a prison.


17 posted on 08/19/2011 7:55:50 PM PDT by doc1019 (You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.)
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To: allmost

>>Some people just need killin.<<

I don’t remember what Texas official said it, but I recall him saying “if you kill one of us, we’ll kill you back!”


18 posted on 08/19/2011 7:55:55 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Herman Cain 2012)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

The death penalty would be more effective as a deterrent if it were conducted publicly.

Even if it isn’t effective as a deterrent (which I disagree with) it still fills two more indispensable roles:

1. It is the only 100% guaranteed method to prevent recidivism. A serial pedophile that’s been executed will never rape anyone else’s kids again.
2. It is the only 100% guaranteed method for containing criminals that are so dangerous even the *possibility* that they might escape to wreak havoc again is far too much. See most of the Texas Seven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Seven); most of them were serving life-plus, no chance of ever getting out. Officer Aubrey Hawkins would still be alive today if those people had been executed instead.

Show me a 100% foolproof, escapeproof detention method that prevents recidivism 100% of the time and we can take the death penalty off the menu. Until then, as far as I am concerned, it needs to stay.


19 posted on 08/19/2011 7:56:07 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Police chiefs, huh? The most liberal cry babies on any police force. Political cronies who owe their jobs to big city mayors (Democrats, all).


20 posted on 08/19/2011 7:56:16 PM PDT by OldPossum
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Our Judicial system has to be flushed of the Leftist bile same as every other aspect of our government.

The Left has made a mockery of our laws in favor of the criminal element within our society.

“Hey! They would have died sometime anyway!”


21 posted on 08/19/2011 7:56:20 PM PDT by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists, call 'em what you will, they ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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To: Niuhuru

very true!

also, we know how libs utterly lie with statistics.

” top criminologists in a recent survey agree, that the death penalty has very little, if any, effect at all on deterring violent crime.”

...maybe is true, when it can take 15 years of appeals, before it happens. and as you correctly said, during that time, things can change. HOPE is the key.

take away that, and THEN do the stats.
do the trial. one month for appeal, and like that great Texas law, if there is multiple eyewitnesses, etc.,
they go to the express lane.

i bet death is a deterrence from stealing from a big gang leader. a CERTAINLY of death, QUICKLY, and without HOPE,
would do the same for courts.


22 posted on 08/19/2011 7:57:22 PM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: freedumb2003

He was right.


23 posted on 08/19/2011 7:58:22 PM PDT by allmost
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To: freedumb2003

That was the stand-up comedian Ron “Tater Salad” White.


24 posted on 08/19/2011 8:01:38 PM PDT by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: doc1019

Only if you let the appeals drag on and on and on and on. Texas got tired of that stuff and after the Texas Seven were recaptured, fast-tracked appeals. As a result, the costs have dropped precipitously.

IIRC, it is going to cost less to finish executing the Texas Seven than it would to house them for the rest of their natural life expectancy.


25 posted on 08/19/2011 8:01:38 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Chief Wiggam is against said penalty.

Sherrif Joe is for said penalty.

Popo ain’t constitutional...

Sherrif is.


26 posted on 08/19/2011 8:02:55 PM PDT by waterhill (Little 'r' republican: taker of the Founder's 'Red Pill'...www.mikechurch.com)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

And don’t worry, Ruben. If Minnesota turned out like California has, your average capital defendant would be more likely to die of old age (or at least of natural causes) than at the needle.


27 posted on 08/19/2011 8:03:26 PM PDT by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: WOBBLY BOB

How can anyone say the death penalty is no deterrent.

There is not an incident on record where an executed man or woman ever comitted another crime.

The only problem with the death penalty is that it takes too long to carry out.
After a murderous POS receives the death penalty he should be dead within 30 days


28 posted on 08/19/2011 8:07:54 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Spktyr

Good example, not typical. California is a great example of the other extreme. It cost California approx. 73K per year to keep a prisoner, yet it cost California over 373K per year per prisoner in court and lawyer fees for death row prisoners.


29 posted on 08/19/2011 8:10:11 PM PDT by doc1019 (You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

It’s not used enough to be a deterent.


30 posted on 08/19/2011 8:12:25 PM PDT by umgud
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To: WOBBLY BOB

My only problem is that both our justice system and law enforcement has become corrupt and bureaucratically inept.

I am no longer confident that an innocent person couldn’t be convicted and executed.


31 posted on 08/19/2011 8:16:31 PM PDT by Valpal1 ("No clever arrangement of bad eggs ever made a good omelet." ~ C.S. Lewis)
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To: WOBBLY BOB
>> the death penalty has very little, if any, effect at all on deterring violent crime. A national poll of police chiefs placed it dead last, pun intended, on ways to reduce violent crime <<

Yes, survey's have shown well over 95% of executed corpses become zombies after their execution, reanimating within 72 hours and committing more murders. Said one coroner sadly "If there was ONLY a way we could stop 'em from coming back to life, the death penalty might deter these criminals from violent crime. Unfortunately, medical science hasn't reached that stage yet"

32 posted on 08/19/2011 8:17:34 PM PDT by BillyBoy (Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: doc1019

That’s California, though. It is only so expensive in California because they have permitted it to become so and permitted the process to drag out over 30+ years per inmate.

Yes, it’s more expensive in California, but it’s *California’s* own fault; the cost is not inherent in the death penalty.

Also, don’t you mean it costs them $73K per year to *not* keep a prisoner? Remember, they’re doing wonderful things like paroling murderers because of overcrowding (won’t build more prisons because of BANANAs and NIMBYs and ecofreaks), political revenge (”Hah, vote to reduce MY princely salary, will you?”) and lack of money.


33 posted on 08/19/2011 8:20:41 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: umgud

It’s also conducted behind closed doors.

Most criminals (outside of Texas) either don’t believe that the death penalty actually exists or they believe (often correctly) that they will be long dead of old age before any such sentence gets close to being carried out.


34 posted on 08/19/2011 8:25:16 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Elendur; doc1019

Thanks and your statement is entirely correct; if there is cast iron evidence and unfailing witnesses, it should all be hurried along, no silly automatic appeals and stuff like that. With McVeigh and Aileen Wuornos, they should have been dead in a year at most, six months minimum. Long enough for them to get good with God and then meet their Maker.


35 posted on 08/19/2011 8:33:45 PM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: Spktyr

Well, Richard Ramirez is still alive, goes to show what sort of sick world we live in that he is still kicking back in prison. Same with the Manson women, who should have had their death penalties apply when the death penalty was reinstated.


36 posted on 08/19/2011 8:35:36 PM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: Niuhuru

It’s California. Why are you surprised?


37 posted on 08/19/2011 8:37:26 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: WOBBLY BOB
They just released a guy who was on death row today. I tend to automatically oppose any cause Hollywood celebrities get behind but from the news articles it appears the prosecution didn't have incontrovertible proof in this case. Death penalty cases can't have the slightest possibility of errors or mistaken identities. Releasing some guy from death row on a technicality designed to keep him from suing the DA does not inspire confidence in prosecutors seeking the death penalty.
38 posted on 08/19/2011 8:38:13 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: Valpal1

I agree. It’s frighteningly easy for someone to make an accusation and then you are put in the position of having to defend yourself.


39 posted on 08/19/2011 8:38:55 PM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

“Death penalty cases can’t have the slightest possibility of errors or mistaken identities. “

WHich makes sense. Cases where there are executions should have cast iron proof that something was done and there is no possibility that the defendent is executed.


40 posted on 08/19/2011 8:41:00 PM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: Spktyr

I try not to be too cynical about humanity and life, lest I lose faith.


41 posted on 08/19/2011 8:42:44 PM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: OldPossum

Not all police chiefs. Maybe the big city ones who got the job because they are liberals. Most chief’s I know believe in the death penalty.


42 posted on 08/19/2011 9:06:19 PM PDT by midcop402
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To: Ron C.

The only reason it costs more
to execute than life in prison is because the same people
who are opposed to capital punishment are in favor of unlimited appeals. It’s like saying you can’t cross the ocean because it’s too expensive .(because the ONLY way to
cross it is by building a giant bridge)

Limit appeals to 2 or 3 appeals in 5 or so years or whichever comes 1st-out of time, out of luck.


43 posted on 08/19/2011 9:14:37 PM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (My mind is like a steel trap: rusty and illegal in 37 states.)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

I believe that, by 2050, the death penalty will be outlawed and gay marriage will be the law of the land - both by federal fiat.


44 posted on 08/19/2011 10:40:58 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Obama: The Dr. Kevorkian of the American economy.)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

“Limit appeals to 2 or 3 appeals in 5 or so years or whichever comes 1st-out of time, out of luck.”

One of the issues is the time the justice system takes to process criminals. The Constitution guarantees one the right to a speedy trial. 100 years ago a felon would be tried within weeks or even days of his arrest. The time elapse between arrest, conviction, and punishment was short. Appeals were difficult and required the criminal to demonstrate a real error or bias in the proceedings and not a technicality. The jury was also one of his “peers”, people selected from the community and very likely people who knew the defendant or knew of him.

Punishment only deters crime if there is a high likelihood one is going to be convicted if one commits and crime and the time between arrest, conviction, and punishment is brief. It also helps if the punishment is truly punishment. If a potential felon knew that if he knocked off a convenience store there was a 95% plus chance he would be caught, tried, and convicted within 90 days he might truly think twice. If during that same felony he knew if he killed the clerk there was a 99% chance he would be tried and convicted of first degree murder and would be executed within 12 months (the trial and all appeals exhausted) he would think three times.

Today we have flash mobs descending on stores and stripping the shelves bare. Dozens of people commit a felony as a group and there are no negative consequences. The likelihood any will be tried and convicted are slim. These flash mobs are now progressing to groups of “youths” who attack, rob and beat citizens going about their daily business. Again, there is no aggressive action by society to find and punish the perpetrators. How soon will it be before group muggings progress to armed group assaults on houses, banks, and other businesses in which multiple innocent citizens are killed? Even if the some of the criminals are captured, in our legal system it will take years to get a trial, much less a conviction. Every step of the way a phalanx of attorneys will use every possible legal maneuver to get the cases thrown out of court.

Justice in this nation is not swift nor is it fair. It is unevenly applied. The wealthy and powerful frequently escape the power of the law unless they run afoul of the political powers. Members of privileged racial and ethnic groups receive special consideration when it comes to trials for even heinous crimes. It seems only the middle class or those without connections to the powerful elites must truly take their chances in court.


45 posted on 08/20/2011 2:59:21 AM PDT by Soul of the South (When times are tough the tough get going.)
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To: doc1019
"I would be open to a life sentence. Let them live in the hell that is life in a penitentiary, then when they die ... the ultimate life sentence."

Inadequate. A life sentence without parole IN SOLITARY CONFINEMENT is marginally acceptable. If put into the general prison population, the other inmates and guards are still at risk from their actions.

46 posted on 08/20/2011 4:12:19 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Spktyr
"Show me a 100% foolproof, escapeproof detention method that prevents recidivism 100% of the time and we can take the death penalty off the menu. Until then, as far as I am concerned, it needs to stay."

Surgical severance of the spine at the seventh cervical vertebra. Not having use of arms and legs goes a long way to preventing recidivism. Let the other inmates take care of'em.

47 posted on 08/20/2011 4:15:43 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: RichInOC
That was the stand-up comedian Ron “Tater Salad” White.

Ron White said it, but in the Texas legal community "he needed killin'" has been a discussed unofficial but often-applied defense to a charge of murder since . . . well . . . since we've had Texas.

48 posted on 08/20/2011 5:44:46 AM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: OrangeHoof

2050? I’d say 2020 at the latest.

If we make it that long.


49 posted on 08/20/2011 7:30:16 AM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (My mind is like a steel trap: rusty and illegal in 37 states.)
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To: midcop402

Re your post 42, yes, I think that I misspoke on part of my post (”The most liberal cry babies on any police force.”); I confine my characterization to the big city police forces.


50 posted on 08/20/2011 2:59:22 PM PDT by OldPossum
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