Skip to comments.Egypt decides to withdraw ambassador from Israel
Posted on 08/19/2011 8:35:36 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
CAIRO (AP) -- The Egyptian Cabinet says it has decided to withdraw its ambassador from Israel over the deaths of Egyptian security forces in fighting after an ambush targeting Israelis near the border between the two countries.
The Cabinet statement issued early Saturday says the ambassador will be withdrawn until Israel investigates the shooting deaths of five Egyptian security forces.
(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...
When it's bad news others do the talking for him (defense cuts, GITMO stays open, economy dives some more, monetary easing “printing money” etc).
Only when it’s perceived as beneficial will he speak. If it’s a negative story but it shows “leadership” and it doesn’t really hurt him, he’ll come out and lead from the front, i.e. beer summit.
Obama’s foreign policy is bearing fruit.
Here it comes.
Lebanon last time wasn't a victory for Israel and in case you haven't noticed, Israel is in a pickle when it comes to demographics. The Arab Israeli population is exploding and the population in the occupied territories as well. The West (Europe and North America) are not standing behind Israel like they once did. The power base (political, economic, social) of nations like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey (a moderate but profiteer) are growing by leaps and bounds while Israel is running flat. Let's talk about this again in 20 years.
You forgot this war: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War
again, i hope and pray you are right.
but in 73 it was close,
and the resupply that made the difference,
ain’t coming under Zero.
Obama could even decide to do a “no fly zone”
like in Libya, to protect the new state,
that the U.N. might create next month.
i don’t put anything past him to do...
I believe many notice.
Check out this thread and especially #16, it’s right in line with your post.
So Egyptian jihadists try to kill Israelis, Israelis defend themselves, and Egypt cuts ties why? Because the Joooos didn’t just let themselves be slaughtered?!
The world is upside down...
On the contrary, this is SOP.
If the arabs attack again, it is not going to end well for anyone...the word from behind the burning bush this time is going to be take your iodine pills.
No, they will not defeat Israel, but they will come close, and at the last moment..............
You only showed 20th century dates - Israel's endurance goes MUCH farther back than the last 75 years or so and it will continue to endure until He decides the time is right.
“The Obama White House issued new measures on Friday to prevent genocides and mass atrocities, creating an “Atrocities Prevention Board” in the wake of the failure of the “Never Again” vow taken following the German Holocaust to stop the murders of entire populations.”
Perfect! Obama will use the Holocaust as a reason to prevent Israel from using its nukes to defend itself. These people are PURE EVIL!!!
Thanks Free ThinkerNY.
Under terms of the peace agreement between Israel and Egypt the Sinai was to be demilitarized. Egyptian police were to control the Rafa crossing into Gaza. Elsewhere, the United States paid Egypt $2 billion annually and Israel slightly more to keep the peace.
The USA also paid for a Multinational Force and Observers (MFO) to patrol the Sinai and see that it was demilitarized. Two battalions of foreign troops were placed at a base south of El Arish, and an American batallion was stationed near Sharm al-Sheikh. This was to ensure the Sinai remained neutral and pacific. It appears this has failed. What the Egyptian police who were killed were doing that far south along the border is questionable.
Frankly, after a quarter-century it is time to end the annual payments to Egypt — where we have set up armaments shops for production of weaponry including tanks. Payments to Israel should be made in military hardware as long as Egypt cannot ensure the peace in Sinai.
The State Department should justify ASAP the future payments for an MFO, and in support of Egypt and Israel.
One thing that really bothers me is the 40+ tzars that obama has working behind the scenes.
What are they up to?
This revelation of Atrocities Prevention Board caught some attention but what else has slipped under the radar.
I don't trust these commies as far as I can throw them, I wish more attention was given to this aspect of the administration.
Do a Google search on her, some pretty interesting things pop up.
President Obama is such a lightweight pantywaist that no matter what he says will have much impact on the Middle East dis functionalism?
Either Egypt polices the Sinai, or Israel will have to take over the area around Eilat. If that means war, it means war.
The withdrawal of the Egyptian ambassador to Israel probably signals the end of the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty, a treaty that one could foresee would crumble as soon as the planned line of succession of Egyptian political leadership was breached. It's in practicality a treaty between Israel and the line of Sadat-Mubarak, not a treaty between Israel and Egypt.
great link, thank you very much!
and i worry a lot about Egypt. as soon as the Muslim Brotherhood finish consolidating Egypt
(thanks to OBAMA)
they have one THOUSAND M1A1 Abrams...
It was close in 1973. If all the surrounding countries invade, with the American made equipment,
Israel probably can’t survive without going nuclear,
and maybe not even then...
The list, ping
Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list
“The Arab Israeli population is exploding and the population in the occupied territories as well. “
Sorry, not true.
Excellent background here (2008):
More Current (slightly slower loading):
Even worse than staggering - Armageddon...the only question is when the real pain begins as things develop toward His promise.
2. We're talking about long term trends, not a three year bubble 2007 - 2010.
The Muslims are out breeding you, 2.1% growth in occupied territories (Gaza/West bank combined). In Israel overall you have a 1.8% growth rate but even there a large portion is Arab, not Jewish and the projection is that OVERALL the population will shift over the next 20 years to a more Arab one. The power base of the people surrounding Israel is “increasing” while Israel is flat lining: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt in all aspects (economic, political, social, militarily). In fact, in the Middle East at large the booming centers of growth today are NOT Israel but places with names like Qatar, Dubai, etc. While these nations pose no immanent threat to Israel, their governments and populations do see Israel and the Jewish population in a negative way and their political, economic and military might is increasing both regionally and on the world stage. The influence of Israel on the other hand and the political will/need to support them is waining in the West.
Netanyahu is right and the problem is even worse than most recognize or wish to accept. You have to look at this long term and at a macro level, not slicing it up with definitions and geographically so you get some "feel good" answer.
There are trustworthy sources:” http://www.gov.il/FirstGov/NewsEng/NewsEng_ArabPopulation.htm
“Sorry, not true.” lol- Tell that to Haifa University doing the research on demographics.
“1. The game they play is a matter of definitions. By defining where/who’s counted they can create their nice little counter argument.”
And you aren’t?
“2. We’re talking about long term trends, not a three year bubble 2007 - 2010.”
Ettinger’s analysis goes decades ahead, He is a former Israeli Ambassador and one of the most respected demographers in Israel.
“The Muslims are out breeding you, 2.1% growth in occupied territories (Gaza/West bank combined).
a/ anyone who calls them “occupied territories” doesn’t know what they are talking about or is a jihadi dupe, especially when adding in Gaza.
You talk a good rap supporting Israel but “”occupied territories”” is UN / pali /Code pinko talk. Exactly whose side are you on?
” In Israel overall you have a 1.8% growth rate but even there a large portion is Arab, not Jewish’
NOW YOU MIX THE POPULATIONS to get your figures?
” and the projection is that OVERALL the population will shift over the next 20 years to a more Arab one. “
BULLSHIT AND A LIE. Israel is 5-1 Jewish, unless your fantasy of Iran nuking 90% of Israel comes true there is no way there is an arab majority in 20 years (or ever)...
“The power base of the people surrounding Israel is increasing while Israel is flat lining:”
Power base of the people - what is that, measurement of Bill Ayers inflatulence (sic) on world affairs?
You mean the arabs surrounding Israel are finally moving forward from the 7th century to the 19th century whiole Israel is moving to the 22nd?
(check you computer and your OS and the source of the texting function on your phone and check your parents prescriptions and see where they came from... NOT DUBAI)
Given that Israel can only export INTELLIGENCE AND INVENTIONS vs oil. (and Israel may be exporting NG to Jordan soon), it looks like Israel is doing quite well in GDP vs your precious arabs:
I have looked at the Israel gov site for the stats and written for clarification; as far as I know they are based on “PALESTINIAN” BIRTH RECORDS CERTIFIED BY “PALESTINANS” and if you had read Ettinger you would see most of those have been proven to be FAKED.
Israel, GDP growth 4.6%, Qatar 18.6%, UAE 6.3%, Saudi Arabia 4.0%, Egypt 4.7%, Syria 5.0%, Bahrain 4.5%, Lebanon 5.0%...
Get this into your head, It's not 1968 anymore. Israel is surrounded by economies larger than her own, growing faster than hers, nations like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE... Some of these nations are technologically radiply advancing, populations are larger than Israel's and out growing her even on her own turf. Take a look at Youtube and what's happening, every Muslim today has Internet too. Because of the growth in wealth and globalization of economies, these people travel, as do their idea's and values. Take a look at Lebanon today, not only are they rebounding economically, but they demographically shifted to be a Muslim nation probably in the early 60s (Some experts- pro Islam state this happened in the 30s that's really just a way to rationalize the cause of the war and blame it on those evil “Christians” that weren't giving Muslims enough say). The strategic significance of nations like Saudi Arabia have multiplied in the eyes of the West that today are more dependent more than ever on their oil, and they like Iran know how to leverage this. The Muslim world is growing in influence by leaps and bounds may that be culturally, economically or even in defense. The post WWII and Holocaust guilt is gone. Just look at the media in the West! In the 50 and even liberal 60s and 70s vehemently pro Israel, today have a pro Palestinian, Arab or Muslim slant in many cases. Hell, what use to be a media championing Israel, today is run by the likes of Fareed Zakaria (Newsweek 2000 - 2010) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fareed_Zakaria
Let's look at some indicators:
Could you have imagined Germany selling Saudi Arabia 270 of her most advanced tanks and making anti Israeli statements during a war like the one in 2006 back in 1981?
Was Iran one of Germany's largest trading partners in 1981?
Was it even conceivable that Iran would be a nuclear power in 1981?
The idea that the UAE fly’s a more modern F-16 than the US, would that have been conceivable in 1981?
That a large numbers of publications are owned, have chief editors or are in other ways heavily influenced by Muslims as is the case in Great Britain, imaginable in 1981?
Do you think that in 1981 one would have thought Israel would LOOSE in a conflict fought in Lebanon in a proxy war against Iran?
In 1981, would a US President have said this? “We believe the borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states.” (Obama, May 2011.)
Could anyone have imagined that members of despot regimes would sit on committees in the UN and scold Israel, recommend action be taken against Israel for her actions in Gaza, in 1981?
The Idea of a Palestinian state recognized by most of the world and only Europe and North America holding out (and they will fall, believe me, Europe wants to go ahead and it's really only the US that's left holding out) in 1981 would have been laughed at. Nations that today recognize a state of Palestine: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Palestine_recognitions_only.png
Why do you think in reality even in the West you see this readjusting of policy and rhetoric towards Israel happening slowly but surely?
Hint- Demographics even in the West, trade/money, strategic resources (in this case oil).
2.5 million Muslims living in US, Germany 5.4% or 4.3 million ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Germany )
France 8.7 - 9% and rapidly growing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France )
Netherlands 5% ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_Netherlands )... You don't think that starts to influence the policies and foreign affairs of a nation? Especially when this group of people is organized around their religion? Who to the Germans is more important, Iran with their oil and trade in goods or Israel?
German exports to Iran ~ $6.2 billion.
German exports to Israel ~ $2.3 billion.
BTW, who has oil and guess where a lot is going? What do you think that does to the power base of a nation like Iran when dealing with the Germans?
In 20 years things will look very ugly for Israel. There are ups and downs along the way, but the trend is towards a shift in power to the Muslim/Arabic side in ALL aspects. Save this post and prove me wrong.
German nuclear missile equipped subs sold to Israel:
PS - Let me clue you in, Red6, on why you are boring everyone here with your wet dreams of 5 million Jews on the barbie...:
First you fart and say "They will defeat Israel, and they know they will."
The tread is about Egypt. Egypt can't defeat their own runny nose right now and even a WIZARD LIKE YOU can't predict where Egypt will be in 20 years. For instance, did it ever occur to you how Egypt will be wiped out when the Aswan dam is bombed, and it's 50-50 if it will be done by Israel or AL QUEDA?
Then when it's pointed out to you that the demographic scare is considered BS by some of the most talented demographers NOT on the govt payroll (I forgot, is FR the place where we trust govts or not?) you scoff and requote some BS from the Israeli website that one of the alternative theories presented says contains bogus #s.
When this is pointed out to you you do not respond but start whining about muslims in Europe and the U.S.
The thread is about Egypt and Israel today, not about some fantasy you have of Israel eventually losing a final battle.
GET A CLUE - Israel is surrounded by 165 million muslim scum TODAY. Israel has managed to hold off these animals, they have made some crucial mistakes, but along with your "guarantee" of millions more arab muslims being crapped out into the desert, Israel will ALSO COME UP WITH MORE AND NEWER SOLUTIONS, and god willing, we here in America will get rid of the scum in washington aiding Israel's (and OUR_ enemies at the same time.
So do us a favor, go peddle your "ALL THE JEWS ARE GONNA DIE" bs somewhere else where you can get the applause you need.
I've been to Israel and I like Israel unlike nearly the entire rest of the Middle East that is an ignorant, filthy, backward cesspool. But that doesn't change the fact that they are in serious long term trouble. The Germans will sell to anyone, including Saddams Iraq, today's Mullah's in Iran... and that's the problem. Calling people names because they spell out a bad trend doesn't help your cause, buddy. Iran today is strategically more important to the Germans than Israel, bottom line.
Here are the trends and they have been going on for a long time now:
1. The political influence of many Arab and Muslim nations has increased because of the resources (oil) but also trade (buying of goods and services) with Western nations.
2. The population of Jewish Israeli's is not holding pace with the growth of Arab Israeli's and those in the occupied territories. The population of Israeli’s isn't holding pace with that of surrounding Muslim nations. While the Jewish population in most Western nations holds constant or is even in decline, the Muslim population is growing: US, Great Britain, Germany, India, Canada, France...
3. The rise in Muslim population even in Western nations creates an inner pressure on policy makers. These people largely vote on certain issues as a homogeneous block, the threat of inner stability influences decision making as well as does the ability to “contribute” to political campaigns. One of the last major strongholds of Israel's interests is their lobbying (formal and informal) ability in the US which greatly affects US foreign policy.
4. The WII/Holocaust guilt of past is used up. The new generations don't care. Their is a growing secularization in Western nations (Westerners are loosing their religion), their cultural bond to Israel and the Jews specifically is in decline from a religious perspective.
5. Technologically many Arab nations have modernized, as have their armed forces. They have professionalized their armed forces that have also largely doctrinally advanced.
6. Globalization, through trade, the Internet, international media Al Arabia, Al Jazzier... The Arab/Muslim perspective in the West has become the “predominant” one with Al Jazzier on most European cable networks, pro-Arab/Mulsim papers sold on news stands etc.
There doesn't need to be another major war between Israel and her enemies at this point. Economics, demographics, the media and the political process will do what seven wars over 60 years were incapable of accomplishing. Israel's death will be a silent walk into darkness and it is the fact that this shift in power and it's causes are largely unperceived that exacerbate the problem. If you were truly supportive of Israel, don't attack me for pointing this out, ask yourself what you should do. But in the meantime you always have the option of cherry-picking those indicators that feel good to you and be like a cancer patient that is in denial. Got it- the Israeli government and Haifa university are lying but the local paper that through the game of definitions obviously creates a self fulfilling argument is believable, regards demographics. lol
Not on the map is yet ANOTHER Mosques being built near where I live in North Texas that I'm not thrilled about, but it's a reality and I can deny it, I can pretend it means nothing and minimize it... that is what you're engaging in.
You need to learn to seperate what you would like it to be and what is, who conveys a message and who's the culprit...
Do you think that a growing community with lots of money and voters influences things? You bet,
“If you were truly supportive of Israel, don’t attack me for pointing this out, ask yourself what you should do.”
Go ahead, tell us what we should do. (and what you’re doing about the mosque in your backyard.
OK, since now you wish to get back to Egypt after your Israel GDP growth argument went up in smoke: http://www.rand.org/pubs/issue_papers/IP183/index2.html
Egypt is actually a good example of what I'm talking about. Irrespective of the uprising (That's nearly superfluous although it grabs the media) they today are politically far more important to us. The driving forces behind their vast gain in political influence are: oil (~12,000 barrels to the US come from there daily), ~ 6.8 billion dollars in exports to Egypt in 2010 (Nothing compared to Israel which is about three times that, but what is the trend. It's already enough to where the US considers well the consequences). Growing numbers of US citizens that are expats or have through other means a tie back to Egypt. In 1990 there were about 76,000 Egyptians in the US, by 2000 that rose to 142,000 and today it will surely be far more. Now imagine the entire Muslim population in the US is about 2.5+ million. At the same time, Egypt's population has gone from 20 million when Israel was founded to 82 million today and will reach 114 million before it likely levels off. They are more plugged in than ever before and when the uprising started, the Internet was flooded with blogs and other communications about it. The number of US persons going to Egypt for pleasure or business has increased nearly ten fold since the end of Egypt's alignment with the Soviets in the Cold War. In 2008 alone, 319,000 tourists from the US visited Egypt. That's still behind Israel by 200,000, but what does that tell you? (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2008-01-23-american-tourism-to-israel_N.htm) We sell arms to Egypt, to include weapon systems like Patriot, F16, etc. Even in the US, there are many for whom the lines of who is friend and foe are fuzzy. Their economy of course at this moment is ground to a halt, but overall their entire economic volume amounts to more than twice that of Israel.
I understand that in your simplistic world, their uprising this second appears to be weakness, but long term and at the macro when we look at the West and it's dealings with the Middle East, the Middle East at large, Israel and her occupied territories, the trend is one of a massive power shift to the Arab/Muslim side and as stated before, demographics, economics, strategic resources (oil), the political process and the media are the cause of this power shift.
Go ahead, tell us what we should do. (and what youre doing about the mosque in your backyard.”
Well, that's a difficult question, isn't it?
***On a personal level:
I vote based on my political/moral views
I don't give bad guys my money
I try to inform people
I make preparations for the long run to preserve myself and family
I ensure my offspring has a solid moral compass that reflects my values (offspring brainwashed by the enemy doesn't count)
I also make perpetration's for when things get ugly, because it's an inevitability. The multicultural society does not exist. It doesn't exist in France, Israel, Germany or anywhere else where we talk about cultures with conflicting views of the world. It never has. Like socialism, it's a Utopian idea that only works in an academic setting. Islam as a whole is incompatible with Western liberal democracy (in the traditional meaning of the world liberal). May it be our legal code, Constitution, the idea of equality of man, none of this truly jives in Islamic society. Embracing diversity amounts to no more than self deprecation and empowering those that have mutually exclusive value systems to gain influence in ones own society. At present, because of their relatively low numbers they do not feel empowered nor do they heavily influence society through the policial process, but as their numbers grow this changes. Realize, the use of demographics to shift power is nothing new to this culture as absurd as this sounds to us, that's what they did in Sudan, a religious civil-war that is characterized as anything else besides what it really is in secular Western society that doesn't want to see this. North America and Europe are like a horse with blinders on this issue. Arab and other Muslim countries pour money and fighters into Sudan which is split in half (North Muslim, South Christian). Of course it wasn't always that way, because years past like Lebanon it was predominately Christian. Hmmmm, Lebanon, I wonder what happened there? In Sudan you have conversion at swords edge, subjugation of non-Muslims in Muslim controlled area's and all we hear about is some Hollywood actress adopting another African baby. Ask the Coptic Christains or Jews living in Egypt (That exists BTW) or Iraq (I've been there too) what life in a Muslim nation as a non-Muslim is like. The multicultural society that the secular Westerner strives for will only work for as long as their inclusive and egalitarian ideology is the predominant one of the land.
Reality is, the issue is beyond me, the state I live in or even the government in D.C. Not even the US can slow this down even if she cared and tried. Like a run away locomotive, globalization is largely the driving force behind this power shift and not even at a national level would we really be able to stop the trend now. So one does what one can within the defined limits of society to change things to a more positive way or slow the progression down while one makes preparations for the worst case scenario.
Any true solutions to this issue would first require society to become conscious of what is going on, and we don't have that. You have Americans arguing and putting each other down because of the teaching or lack thereof of evolution, in the meantime seven (7) Islamic schools instruct kids in North Texas.
***On a national level, if I were in charge:
Enforce English language standards (We think in words)
Restrict immigration by regions (control it better)
Toughen up citizenship requirements to where we get less pure economic tourists that have no true interest in the US but simply want a job for as long as the sun shines
Reduce energy dependencies from unstable regions and nations that don't like us
Push for national identity/American exceptionalism to be reinforced in education. Stop the "America is bad" crap in public education.
Allow religion (Judea Christian) to seep into public education and discourse (value system)
Push for social expectations and norms that strive for assymilation vs. diversity. For example, in France there is no headscarf.
They keep forgetting ... they keep thinking they can defeat Israel
Tanks for the memories...
Netanyahu is thinking, “Don’t make us come over there and kick your ass.....again!”
They don’t generally screw around.
Reduce “dependencies” on these regions/nations
How we push assimilation, how we control immigration can vary, but ultimately those are the tools with which you'll get this under control in the long term.