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Birth Control, Contraception Donít Stop Abortion, Help Women
Life News ^ | 8/19/11 | Kristan Hawkins

Posted on 08/20/2011 1:53:21 PM PDT by wagglebee

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To: wagglebee
You do realize that Free Republic is a PRO-LIFE forum right?

I think "we" have taken a march a couple of klicks beyond the anti-abortion agenda, in a way that invites ridicule, which is my point.

101 posted on 08/20/2011 6:11:03 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: kaila

You wrote:

“I took it most of my life, and it has not hurt me at all.”

Well, your attitude and intelligence could use some work.


102 posted on 08/20/2011 6:11:43 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: wagglebee

Birth control does not equal abortion.

You and I have had this conversation before, wagglebee. These only result in hurt feelings, division and bashing of various religious groups.

Millions of us grew up in a culture (Protestant, evangelical) where sex is only licit within marriage and elective abortion is never an option, while responsible contraception is acceptable. If a pregnancy occurs on birth control, we would never have an abortion.

Contraception does function to space children and to prevent pregnancy. The key is whether or not the couple believe that every child is human from fertilization. This is where we should work to change minds (and laws). I like my line about “If you break the egg of a bird on the Endangered Species list, it won’t matter that the bird was an embryo or couldn’t live outside the egg. You’ve still broken Federal law.)

Barrier methods like the condom and diaphragm, as well as sterilization can never harm a child.

True contraception does not interfere with the implantation or development of an embryo. The corpus luteum, the tissue left behind at the ovary after ovulation, produces hormones in higher numbers than those resulting from oral or injectables.

I have tons of original articles concerning Plan B and daily oral contraceptives that I’ll email to anyone requesting - send me a FReepmail with your email address.


103 posted on 08/20/2011 6:13:12 PM PDT by hocndoc (http://WingRight.org)(I've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.)(RIAing))
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To: surroundedbyblue
You just don’t get it do you?

You don't get it, do you? You don't get a 14% pregnancy rate per try from randomly timed acts of unprotected sex. The use of patently absurd statistics just invites the kind of ridicule I have attempted to deliver, but to which you seem immune, sadly since the guffawing from those not quite so firmly entrenched in conservative principles will do the conservative cause no good.

104 posted on 08/20/2011 6:14:35 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: UCANSEE2

Breast milk never causes cancer.


105 posted on 08/20/2011 6:15:48 PM PDT by hocndoc (http://WingRight.org)(I've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.)(RIAing))
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To: vladimir998
your attitude and intelligence could use some work

Please considered this added to the list I assembled in post #63.

106 posted on 08/20/2011 6:17:30 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson

Do you know where the idea for Acorn came from? SDS? The movie explains it. You are only looking to fight and ridicule. I’m truly sorry that you are not looking for info to beat the “Progressives”. Honest. With people like you, we will lose.


107 posted on 08/20/2011 6:18:40 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: hocndoc

You wrote:

“Millions of us grew up in a culture (Protestant, evangelical) where sex is only licit within marriage and elective abortion is never an option, while responsible contraception is acceptable.”

Yep, culture. Culture of death.

Protestant who excuses anti-Christian activity like birth control please meet Protestants Against Birth Control: http://www.missionariestopreborn.com/birth_control.html


108 posted on 08/20/2011 6:20:54 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: hocndoc

Woefully uninformed & relativistic


109 posted on 08/20/2011 6:21:28 PM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: little jeremiah
The connection between abortions and breast cancer is real

The more recent articles I came across in this search call that into question. I refer you to this study, in Archives of Internal Medicine, and the ACOG committee statement here , and the National Cancer Institute statement. There are similar statements from Cancer.org, etc. I thought I had read something more recent that did affirm the link, but I can't find anything like that now. Given that, I must regard it as unproven and questionable.

110 posted on 08/20/2011 6:22:27 PM PDT by sometime lurker
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To: miss marmelstein; UCANSEE2

That post was terribly inaccurate. The breast cancer abortion connection is not due to left over hormones or breast milk. It’s most likely due to cell changes toward breast milk production. The process is not carried to the end unless there’s a full term pregnancy.

The immature cells that become abnormal and may continue to divide, until some of them become abnormal enough to be cancer.

The good news is that subsequent pregnancies can mitigate this effect in some women.

However, women with a family history of breast cancer need to know that abortion can increase their risk.


111 posted on 08/20/2011 6:23:22 PM PDT by hocndoc (http://WingRight.org)(I've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.)(RIAing))
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To: AndyJackson

Patently absurd stats? YOU are the one who seems immune to facts & truth.

You, sir, are a moral relativist. And people like you, who embrace a death culture will never restore the nation to what it once was.


112 posted on 08/20/2011 6:23:28 PM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: AndyJackson

Nah, I’ll stick with the list in 62 instead.


113 posted on 08/20/2011 6:23:46 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: DJ MacWoW
I’m truly sorry that you are not looking for info to beat the “Progressives”.

"Burn a condom and kill a progressive." Needs a bit of work, but it could catch on.

Do your realize how ridiculous you are being?

114 posted on 08/20/2011 6:24:43 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: little jeremiah

There was definitely an article in the British Medical Journal about it, which I think (don’t quote me) got picked up by either Nature or Sci American.
Went through this years issues of the BMJ, not there, will dig through 07 to 10 in the morning. Tis long past my bed time here!


115 posted on 08/20/2011 6:24:43 PM PDT by EnglishCon
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To: hocndoc

It’s not just abortion that increases breast cancer, but the Pill, which was listed by the WHO as a Class 1 carcinogen. What do you have to say about that since you see no issue with birth control in your marriage?

What man would want to put his wife at risk like that for his own pleasure? Sheesh.


116 posted on 08/20/2011 6:26:18 PM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: surroundedbyblue
And people like you, who embrace a death culture

Who is embracing a death culture?

117 posted on 08/20/2011 6:26:18 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson
Give the post number where I EVER mentioned condoms. This is the second request.

You are using something that I never said to deflect having to discuss a documentary. How pathetic is that?

118 posted on 08/20/2011 6:30:05 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: sometime lurker; EnglishCon

Did you see wagglebee’s links in comment 62?

Are you aware that feminism/the abortion industry are extremely influential?


119 posted on 08/20/2011 6:32:48 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: kaila
Women aren't abused now?

Maybe you think single-motherhood and a career as a state-subsidized extended-stay hooker is something other than abuse?

120 posted on 08/20/2011 6:37:03 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: miss marmelstein

My wife has been on and off birth control pills for almost 20 years and we just welcomed our third child this past week. No problems with any of our planned pregnancies.

modern science is a good thing. I live in Boston and there’s no shortage of single moms in the housing projects. I wish they could get free birth control pills.


121 posted on 08/20/2011 6:38:23 PM PDT by strider44
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To: surroundedbyblue; vladimir998
Let us see,the list of names that you can call those who would use birth control, regardless of political persuasion is now extended to:

marxists; baby-killers;death trolls;suckers of "self-centered, sex-crazed men, lesbians, communists, like Betty Freidan, and just plain stupid jackasses;" victims of abuse; dupes of socialists "to get women out of the homes and make them into workers so they can then dilute the wages they give to men;" the moral equivalent of making men "tamed and neutered and put on a leash, domesticated, emasculated;" abortionists; feminazis;embrasors of a death culture;moral relativists;uninformed moral relativists; possessors of bad attitudes and poor intelligence;apologists for or dupes of ACORN and the SDS;dupes of the 45 step plan for the communist takeover of America;promoters of promiscuity.

And this is what you are calling your fellow conservatives. Wow. Just wow.

122 posted on 08/20/2011 6:40:53 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson

People who embrace a death culture are not conservatives, regardless of what they may call themselves.

I have no problem with the list you posted. So what’s your point?


123 posted on 08/20/2011 6:44:47 PM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: strider44

Congrats on your new baby!!

Are you aware of the side effects of the Pill? Are you ok with your wife taking on those risks?


124 posted on 08/20/2011 6:46:01 PM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: strider44
modern science is a good thing

You have interfered with God's plan requiring you to have 12 children to make up for all of your fellow freepers who would have died long ago from some sort of disease that is only curable due to the satanic science that gave us birth control (Flemming, Salk, Reed, and that ilk were men possessed). Indeed, we should breed like rats until population is limited by disease, starvation and cannabalism. What are you doing interfering in the plan God had for this world?

And these folks dare to call us moral relativists.

125 posted on 08/20/2011 6:47:55 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: surroundedbyblue

Again I ask you, who has embraced a death culture?


126 posted on 08/20/2011 6:49:10 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson

By your acceptance of the use of rampant birth control, you have. I explained that to you in a post above. BCPs cause not only cancer & blood clots in women, but act as abortifacients.

I’d also say that condoms give a false sense of security, allowing people to expose themselves to disease & an ongoing risk of pregnancy.

The increase in birth control correlates with an increase in abortion.

So to answer your question: you.


127 posted on 08/20/2011 6:51:42 PM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: surroundedbyblue

Ignorant Talibani.


128 posted on 08/20/2011 6:57:06 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: little jeremiah
Did you see wagglebee’s links in comment 62?

No, I didn't go through the links because they appeared to be links to postings, not direct to articles. If you can produce a link to a fair sized, solid, prospective study in a peer reviewed journal or authoritative scientific website, I'll be happy to look at it.

Are you aware that feminism/the abortion industry are extremely influential?

Scientific evidence is scientific evidence. Are you claiming all the scientific journals that have published studies are involved in a conspiracy?

This large scale retrospective Danish study published in the New England Journal of Medicine is pretty convincing, but there have been similar results with smaller prospective studies, such as this one.

129 posted on 08/20/2011 7:03:31 PM PDT by sometime lurker
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To: AndyJackson

It’s real simple.

Abortion in murder

Birth Control Pills directly cause abortions

Those who preform or have abortions are murderers.


130 posted on 08/20/2011 7:05:34 PM PDT by trumandogz
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To: wagglebee; kaila; UCANSEE2; miss marmelstein; trisham; luckystarmom; DJ MacWoW; Little Bill; ...

Y’all break my heart with this meanness. It appears that we all agree that abortion is wrong.

Some of you are long time FRiends. Those of you who know me know that ethics is my avocation and that pro-life medical ethics are my passion.

As I’ve said before on these contraception threads and on the (un)Christian debate threads, what a shame to instigate this fight. I hate to see the immediate personal attacks and fail to understand why this happens over and over.

Yes, there is evidence that abortion is related to an increased risk of breast cancer. Delayed pregnancy and/or no pregnancy is also connected. Breast cancer was once referred to as the “nun’s disease.” (It has nothing to do with “pre-milk.”)

Yes, eugenicists and atheists have worked to devalue families and the helpless at either end of life, it is true.

However, contraception and/or childlessness whether due to infertility, abstinence or responsible contraception (including natural family planning) do not equal abortion or a lack of respect for human dignity.


131 posted on 08/20/2011 7:06:31 PM PDT by hocndoc (http://WingRight.org)(I've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.)(RIAing))
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To: surroundedbyblue

My wife is a graduate of Johns Hopkins. She got a perfect score on her SAT test. She is WAY smarter than me.

But according to many enlightened folks that know what is best for us, she is dumb and or evil for taking the pill.

My 3 sons and myself respectfully disagree.


132 posted on 08/20/2011 7:08:36 PM PDT by strider44
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To: hocndoc

I disagree.

Natural Family Planning is really the only acceptable method of “birth control” that I can see. Oral contraceptives & IUDs are abortifacients. Unacceptable whether married or unmarried. Unacceptable.


133 posted on 08/20/2011 7:09:53 PM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: wagglebee; annelizly

wagglebee, I think annelizly was making a prolife statement, not a statement in favor of abortion.


134 posted on 08/20/2011 7:13:28 PM PDT by hocndoc (http://WingRight.org)(I've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.)(RIAing))
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To: AndyJackson

You’re siding with that list, not me.


135 posted on 08/20/2011 7:15:28 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998

My attitude and intelligence is just fine.
People are afraid to vote for conservatives, because the opinions expressed here is way out to the very extreme.
I am willing to bet you that conservative icons such as - Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham all use birth control pills.


136 posted on 08/20/2011 7:16:20 PM PDT by kaila
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To: hocndoc

You wrote:

“Those of you who know me know that ethics is my avocation and that pro-life medical ethics are my passion.”

Your passion is lackluster if you support what is unethical and anti-life. Contraception is both.


137 posted on 08/20/2011 7:17:25 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: surroundedbyblue

The IUD is abortifacient.

Oral contraceptives are not abortifacients. The corpus luteum produces higher levels of hormones than the levels achieved from OCP’s.

Condoms, diaphragms and cervical caps, spermicides and sterilization are not abortifacients.


138 posted on 08/20/2011 7:18:33 PM PDT by hocndoc (http://WingRight.org)(I've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.)(RIAing))
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To: BenKenobi

I have been married for 25 years. I am not going to say no to sex. I do not want to get pregnant, so I have decided that BCP is the correct choice for me.
There is no bad consequences to having sex if you are in a committed relationship, and use BCP.
Of course, zealots would like us to stay home and make babies.


139 posted on 08/20/2011 7:20:07 PM PDT by kaila
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To: kaila

You wrote:

“My attitude and intelligence is just fine.”

Nope.

“People are afraid to vote for conservatives, because the opinions expressed here is way out to the very extreme.”

The pro-life cause is never extreme. Only those who oppose it are extreme.

“I am willing to bet you that conservative icons such as - Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham all use birth control pills.”

They might. That doesn’t make the pro-life cause wrong. It just means some so-called conservatives aren’t entirely conservative.


140 posted on 08/20/2011 7:21:10 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: BenKenobi

If I listened to the Pope, I would have 17 children like a relative of mine did.
No way, no how.


141 posted on 08/20/2011 7:22:03 PM PDT by kaila
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To: surroundedbyblue
It is not a stretch to think that the widespread use of the Pill has led to promiscuity.

The use of the pill is not the root cause of promiscuity. Much like guns are not the root cause of violent crimes. Sexual promiscuity predates the pill by millenia. It has, at its core, the human condition of lack of self-regulation. Self-control, or more precise, the lack of self-control reveals itself in myriad forms. Sexual promiscuity is only one form.

Whethor or not it is a conspiratorial film, I know that ultimately, Marxism is not the root cause for what ails this nation. Nor is the rejection of Marxism the solution. Rejection of Marxism will be a natural result of identifying and eradicating the root cause.

142 posted on 08/20/2011 7:23:41 PM PDT by 1forall (America - my home, my land, my country.)
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To: surroundedbyblue

Estrogen and progesterones can be carcinogenic, whether endogenous or not.

However, the effect of OCP’s on breast cancer is not proven. We know that OCP’s decrease risk of ovarian cancer.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/oral-contraceptives


143 posted on 08/20/2011 7:25:46 PM PDT by hocndoc (http://WingRight.org)(I've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.)(RIAing))
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To: hocndoc

“Oral contraceptives are not abortifacients. The corpus luteum produces higher levels of hormones than the levels achieved from OCP’s.”

I believe you are incorrect here. The zygote cannot implant because the Pill renders the endometrium unfavorable to implantation. Therefore, the early baby is aborted.


144 posted on 08/20/2011 7:26:33 PM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: vladimir998

Well vladimir-
Since you have a name that sounds like a man, I can assume you are one.
Please, go find a woman out there who has your opinion regarding BCPs.
You are going to be looking for a long time, the majority of women are glad that BCPs were invented, it made us more in control of our future.
I also laugh at the concern you all express about the negative health effects that a very small minority of women have from contraceptive pills.
Where are you on the pro smoking threads?
If you are all so concerned about the health of others, you should be all be against smoking.
How come I do not see you expressing an opinion about that?
Do you think we should also ban cigarettes?


145 posted on 08/20/2011 7:30:54 PM PDT by kaila
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To: dagogo redux; don-o

Thanks for pinging me to dagogo’s good observations here. More comments mo’ later...


146 posted on 08/20/2011 7:34:28 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Solo Dios basta.)
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To: kaila

I am a woman who shares that view of BCPs.

I resent that the truth about the Pill has ben supressed & that millions of women have been duped into taking something very unhealthy for themselves, and that the exogenous, synthetic hormones secreted in their urine have contaminated the public drinking water supply for the rest of us. And, no I do not believe the Pill has empowered women. It has allowed them to become objects of convenience for men. If you can’t see that or connect the dots there, then you don’t want to. It dosen’t take a rocket scientist to see the obvious.

As for your comment about Laura Ingram & Michelle Malkin, I wouldn’t have a clue what their birth control practices are, but they are devout & practicing Catholics, so in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the Church, the shouldn’t be using BC.


147 posted on 08/20/2011 7:36:53 PM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: surroundedbyblue

Narcotic compounds have been found in the water systems, from pain medication.
Actually, quite a few medicines have been found in the drinking water.
Should we ban all medication?
Would you be happy if the side effects of the pill was listed on the insert? That way, woman would not be duped?
Guess what? It is already listed in great detail in the insert package.


148 posted on 08/20/2011 7:51:56 PM PDT by kaila
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To: kaila

You wrote:

“Please, go find a woman out there who has your opinion regarding BCPs.”

I have already found many. Two weeks ago I had the pleasure of having dinner with easy 60 or 70 young women who oppose birth control.

“You are going to be looking for a long time, the majority of women are glad that BCPs were invented, it made us more in control of our future.”

Actually I wouldn’t be looking very long at all. All I have to do is contact anyone of dozens of friends I have. No one at my parish uses birth control, for instance.

“I also laugh at the concern you all express about the negative health effects that a very small minority of women have from contraceptive pills.”

And patches. I remember this shortly after the patch came out (at least 17 dead in 12 months) http://www.howardnations.com/causation/ortho_evra/failure.html

But those who want to rut rather than actually completely give themselves to their spouses don’t really care if women or children die.

“Where are you on the pro smoking threads?”

Smoking in itself is not a moral vice.

“If you are all so concerned about the health of others, you should be all be against smoking.”

I think smoking is stupid, but it is not a moral vice. No moral law is violated by a moral agent smoking a cigarette.

“How come I do not see you expressing an opinion about that?”

You just did.

“Do you think we should also ban cigarettes?”

No. Again, smoking is not a moral vice.

This is how GK Chesterton (the great early 20th century Protestant convert to the Catholic faith) explained it:

The Red Indian is said to have tried and condemned a tomahawk for committing a murder. In this case he was certainly the prototype of the white man who curses a bottle because too much of it goes into a man. Prohibition is sometimes praised for its simplicity; on these lines it may be equally condemned for its savagery. But I myself do not say anything so absurd as that Americans are savages; nor do I think it would matter much if they were descended from savages. It is culture that counts and not ethnology; and the culture that is concerned here derives indirectly rather from New England than from Old America. Whatever it derives from, however, this is the thing to be noted about it: that it really does not seem to understand what is meant by a standard of right and wrong. It is a vague sentimental notion that certain habits were not suitable to the old log cabin or the old hometown. It has a vague utilitarian notion that certain habits are not directly useful in the new amalgamated stores or the new financial gambling-hell. If his aged mother or his economic master dislikes to see a young man hanging about with a pipe in his mouth, the action becomes a sin; or the nearest that such a moral philosophy can come to the idea of a sin. A man does not chop wood for the log hut by smoking; and a man does not make dividends for the Big Boss by smoking; and therefore smoking has a smell as of something sinful. Of what the great theologians and moral philosophers have meant by a sin, these people have no more idea than a child drinking milk has of a great toxicologist analyzing poisons. It may be a credit of their virtue to be thus vague about vice. The man who is silly enough to say, when offered a cigarette, “I have no vices,” may not always deserve the rapier-thrust of the reply given by the Italian Cardinal, “It is not a vice, or doubtless you would have it.” But at least the Cardinal knows it is not a vice; which assists the clarity of his mind. But the lack of clear standards among those who vaguely think of it as a vice may yet be the beginning of much peril and oppression. My two American journalists, between them, may yet succeed in adding the sinfulness of cigars to the other curious things now part of the American Constitution.

http://www.fisheaters.com/onamericanmorals.html


149 posted on 08/20/2011 7:53:04 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: annelizly

“I certainly hope that every man on this site that is against birth control and abortion and are making their opinions on womens reproduction are being VERY VERY careful never to have sex unless its to produce a child. Sex isn’t recreation you know.”

Fallacy of the ends against the middle.

Nothing wrong with having sex for pleasure if you are married. The key is being open to children. It is not in my control whether pregnancy will occur.


150 posted on 08/20/2011 7:53:55 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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