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Birth Control, Contraception Donít Stop Abortion, Help Women
Life News ^ | 8/19/11 | Kristan Hawkins

Posted on 08/20/2011 1:53:21 PM PDT by wagglebee

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To: surroundedbyblue
death trolls are out in droves today

Well, now we have settled the issue of which side is name-calling here.

51 posted on 08/20/2011 4:25:07 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: surroundedbyblue; wagglebee; trisham

“Use a condom - kill a baby.” Have you gone insane? This is political suicide. You just handed the country to Reid lock stock and barrel.


52 posted on 08/20/2011 4:27:39 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: trumandogz

“Life begins an conception and any pill...”

When God’s blessings are judged a negative,
composition of soul is soon laid bare.

Where life’s deemed not our Creator’s to give,
the god of Convenience gleans sacrifice to spare.


53 posted on 08/20/2011 4:27:59 PM PDT by BuddhaBrown (Path to enlightenment: Four right turns, then go straight until you see the Light!)
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To: AndyJackson; surroundedbyblue; trisham
“Use a condom - kill a baby.” Have you gone insane? This is political suicide. You just handed the country to Reid lock stock and barrel.

Where has ANYONE on this thread suggested making contraception illegal?

Most teenagers have premarital sex, do you think conservatives should abandon support for abstinence programs?

54 posted on 08/20/2011 4:35:58 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: miss marmelstein
As far as I know, the only contraceptive that is effective, without health risks, is the condom - if used by responsible, married couples.

You did read that the folks you are supporting even oppose the use of condoms? You did know that before you jumped in to support them, didn't you?

55 posted on 08/20/2011 4:37:44 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: DJ MacWoW; EnglishCon; UCANSEE2
Aborting the baby may lead to the breasts producing unfully developed milk that just sits in the breast and leads to what we call 'cancer' (when more cells die than are created).

I'm sorry to say the medical literature I find don't support this statement. (And linking to a poster's bare statement is not the same as citing the specific research or article supporting the claim.)

"Pre Milk" is also called colostrum, which starts being produced during the second trimester of pregnancy (week 13 to week 28). Searching PubMed for articles on cancer and colostrum, I don't find any in the first 3 pages saying that colostrum contributes to cancer. I find some suggesting the opposite: Curr Protein Pept Sci. 2009 Aug;10(4):308-38. Molecular and biotechnological advances in milk proteins in relation to human health.

Limiting the search to colostrum and breast cancer, I find 13 articles, none of which conclude that colostrum contributes to breast cancer.

If you have scientific support for this statement, I'd like to see it.

56 posted on 08/20/2011 4:39:55 PM PDT by sometime lurker
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To: kaila
Birth control pills gave me a lot of freedom.

Reminds me of an editorial I read in Vogue magazine in the early 80s. I saw it at a friend's house, I never read it (then or now). I was quite surprised. The author - the then editor of Vogue - lauded the sexual liberation movement, which included of course birth control, because it gave women the freedom you describe. She glorified the freedom women now have to engage in casual sex - even one night stands, if they want - they can have recreational sex divorced from marriage and commitment, just as supposedly men have always been able to do.

57 posted on 08/20/2011 4:44:09 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: AndyJackson; wagglebee
Well, now we have settled the issue of which side is name-calling here.

Really?

Post 46 The names you have called these troglodytes pale compared to the things I want to call these blithering idiots.

58 posted on 08/20/2011 4:44:24 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: AndyJackson; wagglebee

To what post are you referring?


59 posted on 08/20/2011 4:45:36 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: sometime lurker; EnglishCon; UCANSEE2

All I know is that the link between breast cancer and abortion has been covered up.


60 posted on 08/20/2011 4:46:47 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: AndyJackson

How is that a problem for you?


61 posted on 08/20/2011 4:47:02 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: sometime lurker; DJ MacWoW; surroundedbyblue; trisham
I'm sorry to say the medical literature I find don't support this statement. (And linking to a poster's bare statement is not the same as citing the specific research or article supporting the claim.)

Really? You can't find anything regarding the proven link between abortion and breast cancer?

Abortion Has Caused 300K Breast Cancer Deaths Since Roe

Microbiologist: Hundreds of Studies Confirm Abortion-Breast Cancer Link

Study Confirms Abortion Triples Breast Cancer Risk Among Sri Lanka Women


62 posted on 08/20/2011 4:48:26 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Where has ANYONE on this thread suggested making contraception illegal?

I quote yout post #17 where you respond to the comment "Let me get this straight- you believe that women should not take the birth control pill? I took it most of my life, and it has not hurt me at all," with your prize winning arguement:

You favor killing innocent babies,...

You and your co-cavedwellers have really gone over the top. You have accused folks who use contraception of being marxists; baby-killers;death trolls;suckers of "self-centered, sex-crazed men, lesbians, communists, like Betty Freidan, and just plain stupid jackasses;" victims of abuse; dupes of socialists "to get women out of the homes and make them into workers so they can then dilute the wages they give to men;" the moral equivalent of making men "tamed and neutered and put on a leash, domesticated, emasculated;" abortionists; feminazis.

All for the use of contraception.

63 posted on 08/20/2011 4:54:22 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson; DJ MacWoW; surroundedbyblue; trisham; kaila; little jeremiah
You and your co-cavedwellers have really gone over the top.

Did I or did I not link to a post where someone favored killing a sick baby?

But, back to my original question, WHERE has ANYONE suggesting banning contraception?

64 posted on 08/20/2011 4:57:25 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: trisham
To what post are you referring?

Oh most of them. Just look at what I managed to cull from them in my post #63. And Harry Reid thanks you for all the votes you are driving in his direction. We will get this little worry about budget deficits buried nice and deep.

65 posted on 08/20/2011 4:59:32 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson
And you refuse to watch info that you need to know. The Post in 48 is about the marxist agenda to take down America and all you can do is blindly ridicule those who see clearly.

And YOU continue to call names while accusing others. How very Alinsky of you.

66 posted on 08/20/2011 5:01:41 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: AndyJackson

Cop out. You won’t list specific posts because you can’t.


67 posted on 08/20/2011 5:03:11 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: DJ MacWoW
The Post in 48 is about the marxist agenda to take down America and all you can do is blindly ridicule those who see clearly.

Through the sale of condoms?

68 posted on 08/20/2011 5:05:17 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: DJ MacWoW
You won’t list specific posts because you can’t

You can go back through this thread and find each of those quotes. There is hardly post from "your side" that is free of that kind of rubbish.

69 posted on 08/20/2011 5:06:50 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson; trisham
We will get this little worry about budget deficits buried nice and deep.

It's all tied together. Try actually reading the quotes in post 48. Try watching the movie and getting facts instead of simply spouting off. You have no facts. You have been given access to some. The movie is about the plan to destroy America from within. As the plan unfolds you see exactly what has been done over decades. Marxists are very patient.

70 posted on 08/20/2011 5:06:50 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: AndyJackson

It is about the marxist plan for America. Afraid to watch the truth? Women’s rights and the bill of goods they’ve been sold is addressed among other things. It also talks about “group” warfare: women vs men, black vs white, rich vs poor. There is a LOT of info. The women’s rights movement has destroyed the family. That is addressed. It talks about Gramsci, Sanger and Alinsky. Instead of being sarcastic and uninformed, try watching it.


71 posted on 08/20/2011 5:11:17 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: AndyJackson
You can go back through this thread

That's not my job. YOU made the accusation.

72 posted on 08/20/2011 5:11:58 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: DJ MacWoW
And YOU continue to call names while accusing others

Well it got your attention. Now, maybe sometime, in the next day, or week or month you will try doing some thinking instead of spouting a knee-jerk party line you have cottoned on to.

Let me give you a clue - most of those red-blooded males fighting on our front lines use condoms. Our sailors and airmen won the cold war while using condoms.

The moral rot in our society comes from a lot of things, but birth control is not at the root of that problem.

73 posted on 08/20/2011 5:12:42 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: DJ MacWoW
It is about the marxist plan for America

Condoms?

74 posted on 08/20/2011 5:14:21 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson

You may choose to remain ignorant. That’s up to you.


75 posted on 08/20/2011 5:17:56 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: kaila

I should read to the end of this thread to see if this has been covered but it drives me crazy when people refer to a pregnancy as an accident or a failure. There is nothing accidental about pregnancy. It is what naturally occurs when a couple has sex. It is the proper outcome and the one that should be expected. It didn’t fail, it worked perfectly and beautifully. If you don’t want it to happen then either don’t do it or learn the signs that your body gives off and avoid it for a bit. Then you AND your husband are responsible for the outcome.


76 posted on 08/20/2011 5:21:05 PM PDT by samiam1972 ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."-Mother Teresa)
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To: DJ MacWoW

You claim that condoms are a Marxist plot. The British think they are a French plot and call them “French Letters.” The French think they are a British plot and call them “capote anglaise.”


77 posted on 08/20/2011 5:32:04 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson

now we have settled the issue of which side is name-calling here.

I’m not name calling....it’s true. You are taking a position defending contraceptives, which have been shown to 1. work as abortifacients and 2. cause cancer & life-threatening blood clots in women. Sounds like a pro-death position to me.


78 posted on 08/20/2011 5:34:32 PM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: surroundedbyblue
contraceptives, which have been shown to 1. work as abortifacients and 2. cause cancer & life-threatening blood clots in women

Condoms?

79 posted on 08/20/2011 5:35:18 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: kaila

“You have to look at it this way - “

Well, I’m afraid I don’t “have” to do any such thing, nor look at it any way that does not makes sense to me. And what you say does not.

Having been in the emotional health and family systems field for 25 years now, and being old enough to have seen the trajectory of family dysfunction, abuse, and societal disintegration since my youth, it is clear to me that things have not gotten any better at all, and indeed much worse.

I knew of no barefoot women in my time, nor, I will wager, did you. That is as much a stereotype as the faux Ozzie and Harriet families you disparage. Most of the ones I knew, mine included, were a long shot more cohesive and healthy environments for raising children than the ones I see today. Only about half of the people that have populated my psychiatric practice through the years would ever have needed professional help before the 1960s set things in motion, and the “power” women acquired then is a large part of the reason.

Please tell me the responsible, noble uses to which women have put this “power,” and the way in which our society is now more moral and cohesive for it. As it is now, abuse of all kinds runs rampant, women still need “help” to protect them from the results of their choices, families are greater messes than ever, and each generation spawns a new one lower than the last. If this is the result, as I’m certain, of the new “power” women gained, relinquishing their more traditional and maternal powers, then they were improper vessels to have been entrusted with it.

I am not Catholic, but I have great respect for the moral clarity they have held on to, despite all the harm the Marxist and gay infiltrators have wrought. My wife is devoutly Catholic, and at times I attend Mass with her. The families around me show happy, well-cared for, well-adjusted children, exhibiting mutual respect and warm affection with both their mothers and fathers. It is a rather rare sight in society these days, even separate from the casualties I normally see in my work.


80 posted on 08/20/2011 5:38:45 PM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: kaila

Power?

What power did a woman gain by contraception?

The power to work and earn a living? Single women did and do that just fine. Married women did and do that too.

“I decided not to listen to the Pope regarding that issue based on what I have seen.”

And what has that gotten you? I’m sincerely curious here.


81 posted on 08/20/2011 5:40:06 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: wagglebee

Please read my statement more carefully. I can’t find anything claiming colostrum as implicated in breast cancer. Before I wade though all your links, do any of them specify colostrum?


82 posted on 08/20/2011 5:41:42 PM PDT by sometime lurker
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To: AndyJackson

For those of us who remember when the pills was first marketed, you seem pretty naive. It was supposed to eliminate the need for abortion. Instead, it made abortion on demand necessary. Freud got one thing very right: sex is a very. very powerful thing. Trying to regulate is like trying to control the Mississippi.


83 posted on 08/20/2011 5:42:18 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: AndyJackson

If you read the article, condoms are not fool-proof. They fail 14% of the time to prevent pregnancy & there are sources which demonstrate the ability of some viruses to penetrate condom. You are promoting a lie that has destroyed our nation. “free sex” & sex without consequences is a lie.

And don’t even get me started on the environmental pollution stemming from all the women taking hormonal birth control. It annoys me to no end to think of how our drinking water has been polluted, yet leftist morons who so love Gaia make no mention of this because BCPs serve their agenda.


84 posted on 08/20/2011 5:43:36 PM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: AndyJackson

And yet we act surprised to hear that the west is dying. What is the airman going to say when he returns home and uses those same condoms.

Why are we hearing stories of the same people those airman fought gaining power and control over society? Because he as the airman chose the condom over children. Chose the bliss of today for the sacrifices of tomorrow, and by his own act cuts his own throat. What did he fight for in the first place if not to preserve what is being torn down?


85 posted on 08/20/2011 5:44:36 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: sometime lurker
Please read my statement more carefully. I can’t find anything claiming colostrum as implicated in breast cancer.

My mistake, I thought you were referring to the abortion-breast cancer link.

Before I wade though all your links, do any of them specify colostrum?

I'm not sure.

86 posted on 08/20/2011 5:45:00 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: DJ MacWoW; AndyJackson; kaila
You may choose to remain ignorant. That’s up to you.

1. Some of us don't have the desire or bandwidth to read/watch every conspiracy theory that is promoted by well-meaning individuals. Contrary to the opinion of some, there isn't a socialist/marxist under every rock or spreading tree.

2. Associating using birth control methods such as condoms or the pill with marxism is at the very least overgeneralizing.

3. Associating using the same with promiscuity is disingenious as well.

4. For example: There are many couples that understand they cannot effectively raise another child and wish to live within their ability to do so. Demonizing them is counterproductive and extremely disheartening.

5. Also for example: Some women use the pill to normalize an otherwise out of control menstruation and hormone imbalance.

6. If we continue along this path of infighting and accusatory and inflammatory discussions, we will forever lose this country to the real enemies.

FReegards.

87 posted on 08/20/2011 5:47:59 PM PDT by 1forall (America - my home, my land, my country.)
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To: dagogo redux; Mrs. Don-o

ping to post 80 - a very fine observation of what “empowering” women has done to us.


88 posted on 08/20/2011 5:50:58 PM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever.)
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To: kaila

“I did not want children, and therefore I was not forced to have them because of an accident.”

So, you are saying that you had no choice in the matter to engage in sexual activity, and yet at the same time you are arguing that contraceptives made you powerful? That makes no sense. If the contraceptives make you powerful by giving you control, then you make the decision to use them.

Sexualy activity is a choice, you choose to engage in it and reap the consequences. I would argue that contraceptives do nothing to give you power you do not already have. How do contraceptives give you the choice whether or not to have sex when you can simply say no?


89 posted on 08/20/2011 5:51:16 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: AndyJackson

In what post did I ever say anything about condoms? Give the post number.


90 posted on 08/20/2011 5:51:20 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: 1forall

Some women use the pill to normalize an otherwise out of control menstruation and hormone imbalance - the article is referring to the use of BCP for prevention of pregnancy, not regulation of menstruation

Associating using birth control methods such as condoms or the pill with marxism is at the very least overgeneralizing. Associating using the same with promiscuity is disingenious as well. - you are denying the reality of the situation. I’m sure you are well-meaning, but very misguided. It is not a stretch to think that the widespread use of the Pill has led to promiscuity. No stretch at all. And, the so-called “conspiracy theories” you accuse fellow FReepers of spreading are too well documented to be someone’s fantasy boogey man. Wake up.


91 posted on 08/20/2011 5:52:34 PM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: dagogo redux

The Church struggled for a thousand years to create a stable environment for raising children, creating the family as we still understand it. The traditional family is far from a perfect model. but it half-way civilized sexuality. The sexual revolution has drastically weaked it, and the result, is somewhat like the results in Roman society because of the revolution of the first century BC. Augustus tried to reinstate the traditional family morality by fiat, and failed although after his own family disappeared from the scene, Roman socierty became much more stable. We owe a lot to Roman family law, and Christianity built on it, as it also did on Jewish morality. We also owe a lot to German customs, which added some positive elements. In any casse. one does not throw away a thousand years of evolutionary developmenbts in the law, and try to recreate a replacement out of whole clothe, with such novelties as “gay marriage.”


92 posted on 08/20/2011 5:55:17 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: wagglebee

I certainly hope that every man on this site that is against birth control and abortion and are making their opinions on womens reproduction are being VERY VERY careful never to have sex unless its to produce a child. Sex isn’t recreation you know.


93 posted on 08/20/2011 5:56:08 PM PDT by annelizly
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To: annelizly; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
I certainly hope that every man on this site that is against birth control and abortion and are making their opinions on womens reproduction are being VERY VERY careful never to have sex unless its to produce a child.

You do realize that Free Republic is a PRO-LIFE forum right?

Sex isn’t recreation you know.

Nobody is forcing women to have sex.

94 posted on 08/20/2011 5:59:40 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: surroundedbyblue
They fail 14% of the time to prevent pregnancy

Wow! Really? Sounds like a fertility enhancement method to me.

95 posted on 08/20/2011 6:00:08 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: sometime lurker; DJ MacWoW; EnglishCon; UCANSEE2

I wish I had links at my fingertips but don’t, but here is my recollection on the topic.

The connection between abortions and breast cancer is real; it is increased the earlier a woman has had an abortion, as well as the number. Also it is increased if a woman had an abortion before carrying a pregnancy to term. From what I remember, because the breasts undergo hormonal changes very early in the pregnancy, the abortion, unlike a nature-caused miscarriage, which are not allowed to continue normally. The hormonal changes involve increase in breast tissue including growth of the milk ducts or glands, and when abruptly stopped in an abortion, can cause cancer. I do not remember exact mechanisms involved.

Feminists and pro-abortion people really, really hate these studies and bury them as much as they can.


96 posted on 08/20/2011 6:00:41 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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Comment #97 Removed by Moderator

To: AndyJackson

“Wow! Really? Sounds like a fertility enhancement method to me.”

Um, no. You just don’t get it do you? And, those 14% of failures often end in abortion.


98 posted on 08/20/2011 6:05:20 PM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: 1forall
If we continue along this path of infighting and accusatory and inflammatory discussions, we will forever lose this country to the real enemies.

That is sort of my point, except that if folks are going to push a rediculously over the top agenda, conservatism is dead. Something has to work. If logic doesn't perhaps ridicule might, or at least might convince other conservatives that these view are toxic to getting our country under control.

I think that much more of our moral rot is due to the liberal use of the federal reserve printing press, allowing people to reap rich rewards for the most destructive and nonproductive of enterprises and activities. That the federal reserve could get away with what Argetina or Brazil cannot is because we won WWII and the cold war and so folks were happy to take our paper, stuff it in their vaults and give us goods and services in return. Those days have come to a close.

But none of that is because of birth control or marxist plots, actually.

99 posted on 08/20/2011 6:06:31 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: wagglebee

I’ve got to save that list.


100 posted on 08/20/2011 6:09:23 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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