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Birth Control, Contraception Donít Stop Abortion, Help Women
Life News ^ | 8/19/11 | Kristan Hawkins

Posted on 08/20/2011 1:53:21 PM PDT by wagglebee

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To: AndyJackson

ok - well, again, I’m not sure what to say.

Internet forums get heated.
I’ve never equated internet debate with the “real world”.
I’ve never heard anyone say to me, “well...I was going to vote one way until I saw a buch of nincompoops fighting online, now I’ve changed my vote.”

I think what happens is - people get mad, get their feelings hurt, and they want to lash out.

This is jimrob’s forum. If people don’t like what is going on here - if they think there needs to be a certain set of criteria to be a “conservative”, I guess he’s the one to talk to.

Other than that - people can keep hammering away at each other - or not!


701 posted on 08/24/2011 8:08:03 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: AndyJackson

I am surprised that you have no knowledge of the field of Christian Anthropology. It is not something I just made up out of whole cloth. A good example of a work that is centered on Christian Anthropology is John Paul II’s “Theology of the Body.” I am not familiar with a Reformed work on the subject but I do know the principles of Christian Anthropology are not unknown to many of them.

Since it is unfamiliar to you I suppose an apologetic advancing the Trinitarian nature of marriage would be wasted on you.

Your claim that abstinence is not natural and inconducive to a stable marriage would certainly surprise Orthodox Jews. True they do not abstain by religious decree because of family planning but they to abstain because of other reasons. Yet there is nothing to suggest this causes unstable marriages.

You are so lacking in actual knowledge of Catholic teaching and what was Christian teaching till 1930 it is at best laughable. Show me where in any official Church teaching that conception at every possible moment is advocated. True we are to be open to life. So talk to God about how He made sex our method of procreation. But we are not required to have sex the minute our basal body temperatures hit that old YE IS FERTILE line. That would objectify the women and insult the marriage as much as the use of artificial birth control does.

The same mentality that looks on a child as something to be prevented at all costs is the same mentatlity that advocates abortion as a way of taking care of accidents that should have been prevented. Why else are the majority of abortions performed on women who were using a method of birth control. It has also lead to the mentality that a child is some sort of high grade accessory that you can have done up to your liking. So sex selection abortion is o.k. IVF is o.k. Surrogacy is o.k. Fertility treatments which may lead to selective abortions are o.k. Not saying Christians or you believe these are o.k. But that society has embraced these matters as being legitimate.

All of the above deny the basic dignity of the parents and the child. Which is also part of the Christian Anthropology you scoff at.

Not sure what your point is about the welfare system?

As to this “You state ‘It is not a given that a husband will always abandon his family after they have more than a certain number of children. So you yourself recognize the strain on a marriage of more children than you have the resources (financial, emotional, etc.) to raise. But you think that it is ok to call for measures that will destroy marriages through popping out all the children that God intended them to have, or destroy marriage by abstaining from sex because it “is not a given that this will always occur.” Your ill-chosen conditional demonstrate that you are all too aware that this actually occurs all to frequent.”

Learn to comprehend and not jump to conclusions. I have no idea what may or may not cause stress in a paticular marriage. The number of children may whether it is two children or 8 children. The miles a husband has to commute to work may also be stressful to a marriage. So if you told me that the husband driving 75 miles to work each day caused enough stress in the marriage that it ended in divorce I would point out that not all marriages where the husband commuted long distances ended in divorce. It no more means most of them do than your assertion that yes some marriages may experience stress due to the number of children means most of them do. Admitting to a possibility is not admitting to whether that is always or even the majority of the case.

I do agree that if a woman has a large number of children because her husband did think he had to jack rabbit her every time she was fertile and did not respect that the spacing of children was allowed for grave reasons than yes the strain would probably be very great and yes in such a situtation would most likely lead to a breakdown of the marriage. But that is not Catholic teaching. It is not Catholic teaching because it disregards the dignity of the wife by viewing her only as a means to produce children. That is an example of objectification.

Why in the world do you claim I or anyone who raises the Catholic argument against artificial birth control wishes to intefere in a stable marriage? Hyperbole is not attractive. We are pointing out how the use of contraceptives has not lead to a decrease in the abortion rate but rather contributes to that practice. We are speaking of society at large. You know that hook up, STD carrying, gay rights, serial marrying, aborting, fornicating, exploiting of children, and usurping of parental rights society. The one that all Christians are supposed to hold themselves apart from. The one that all Christians are supposed to offer an better vision to.

But our failure to admit that the pill and the sexual revolution it contributed to is a failure to proclaim the Gospel. The use of the pill in a Christian marriage does not lead to any of the above things. I would never say that. But its use within a Christian marriage is a denial of the full self giving love of the spouses to one another as modeled after the Trinity. It is also a distorted reflection of Christ’s love for His bride the Church. It is also a disobedience against the call for wives and husbands to submit to one another fully.

Your failure to understand that is not so unusual. But to claim I am a moral midget because I do grasp that is rather laughable.

I am a sinner who is in need of a Savior. That Savior is Jesus Christ through whom all things were made. Does that make me an amoral human being? I guess to you it must. But it is by Grace alone I am given Salvation. You are not the dispenser of that Grace or any other graces. So I have no heed of your natterings and your claim to superiority. I stand with the Truth. Which is defended and taught by the One, Holy and Apostolic Church.


702 posted on 08/24/2011 8:59:23 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: P-Marlowe

From the failure of science.


703 posted on 08/24/2011 9:04:43 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: AndyJackson

I will keep this simple for you. If you wish to understand Christian Anthropology you must begin with

Imago Dei.


704 posted on 08/24/2011 9:20:13 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: lastchance
First, I do not live in 1930, but in 2011. Second, I am not trying to put words in your mouth, merely aping the things said by those with whom I am intertwined in debate on this forum. Third, I am not going to enter into an utterly useless theological debate over doctrinal points of a branch of Christianity to which I don't even personally belong. My intention is rather to convince folks that ethical behavior, Christian or otherwise, does not result from the mindless and formulaic application of a simplistic instruction (Catholic or Evangelical Protestant), but requires continual thought and continual inquiry into the particulars of the circumstance to discern what is the best outcome for all.

Indeed, while you try to invoke the views of Orthodox Judaism on this subject, from everything I see, their view is rather different. As an example here is an excellent article regarding The Jewish tradition of ambiguity toward premarital sex

You talk about the ills of our society, with which I agree, but then try to pin the cause on the existence of contraceptives, which is a rather broad over-generalization. It also ignores all the other things that lead to these ills. If bankers get paid their bonuses out of federal reserve furnished moola after losing a cool trillion or so, also made up out of federal reserve furnished moola, you can't talk about any personal responsibility in our society at all. Everything pales in comparison with the magnitude of that kind of dysfunction. Saving means nothing in such a society. Productive work means nothing in such a society. No wonder family and sexual responsibility mean nothing. Your only choice is to borrow and hope that it is the bank that has the problem because you owe them a cool hundred million rather than a measly thousand.

Your admission that we are all sinners (except for Vlad here) is a good start. Once we have finally gotten past that little issue we can start to work on the only practical question, which is what we should be doing. Hopefully there is enough of a program of work on which conservatives can agree that theological points on which we disagree are irrelevant. But when you start the debate from a theology that few understand and fewer will agree with, you are headed nowhere.

705 posted on 08/24/2011 11:14:48 AM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: lastchance
I have no heed of ...your claim to superiority

I don't have any claim to superiority. I merely claim that those here who declare they know an absolute moral truth without investigation of particular circumstances are likely mistaken. It is like the old misunderstood fallacy that the means do not justify the ends. But mostly the end is what determines whether the means are allowable or not allowable. A licensed dentist can extract a tooth because it produce dental health. A drunken thug in a bar cannot do the same. We disdain abortion because it results in a dead foetus. Much of it comes down to the "do unto others..." bit. Now what about when two different ends conflict. Well, we can invoke Menken's law - "if A injures B on behalf of X then A is a scoundrel."

But instead of debating specifics many simple want a formula and then to proclaim that those who don't follow the formula are sinners. Well yeah, as you said, we all are. Now what?

706 posted on 08/24/2011 11:25:24 AM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: Scotswife
“well...I was going to vote one way until I saw a buch of nincompoops fighting online, now I’ve changed my vote.”

That is not it either. It is the "moral majority" label that got stuck on conservatives. There is a general perception of what that means and it is a perception that really hurts the conservative cause, unless that particular point of view is your cause, above and beyond all others.

Were it about fiscal conservatism and realizing the government is not a fit moral arbiter of much of anything there would be very broad support. But when some claim that they have unique insight into "God's will" and would like to impose that will on others, like the God-given right to strip search teenagers for Advil, the sale will fall through and it will take years to fix the perception.

I live in DC. I have these discussion all of the time. I don't know how to fix it. But if it isn't, then we are going to have a constantly swinging pendulum depending upon which side is perceived as the most offensive at the moment. Right now a certain party is winning that debate, but the balance of revulsion can easily be restored.

707 posted on 08/24/2011 11:36:01 AM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson

I apologize for misunderstanding your intentions. I do not claim that I personally know an absolute moral truth. But I do believe that the Church has such because of the charism granted to Her by Jesus Christ. It is that moral truth that I defend.

There are valid arguments against using artificial birth control within Christian marriage and we will not come to an agreement on that.

The article though was mostly focused on how the use of birth control in society as a whole does not lead to a decrease in abortions.

I realize that the reasons a Christian couple may have for using birth control are most likely in keeping with their faith’s theology. As such they are not going to be the same as those who have what is referred to as a “contraceptive mentality”. They will not see an unplanned child as a mistake to be aborted. They will not put their material wealth above the value of their family. They see children as a blessing.

More and more the world sees children as a burden and it is that thought set that all Christians must counter with the message of Hope in Jesus Christ.


708 posted on 08/24/2011 12:52:45 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: AndyJackson

I don’t think you can fix it. There will always be those who claim they have a direct line to God.

The Tea Pary is supposed to be about fiscal conservatism - and the press is still trying to attach the “religious racist whacko” label onto that.

No matter what conservatives do - the msm will apply that label.
It’s just what they do.


709 posted on 08/24/2011 3:52:15 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: wagglebee

That is interesting,that you do not believe that I used to be a Catholic. I remember my classmates amd I giving the nuns a hard time , and having the priest come in to our class and yell at us- on Sun ( although it could have been Sat- I was a kid). I just remember hating it, and not wanting to go.
I also remember kneeling before the Bishop at confirmation, and getting my Catholic name of Rosalina.
I also remember a kid barfing during the first Communion ceremony.It was a smelly ceremony.
I also remember in the old days, women had to wear a little round veil on the head, as you could not enter the Church without one. Men were exempt from that rule.
I remember going into the confessional and saying- “Bless me father, for I have sinned , it has been... since my last confession .” Then I would recite my sins. The priest would tell me how many Our Fathers and Hail Marys I would have to say. I would say it so fast, I was out of there in a couple of minutes.
I remember the stand up, sit, kneel down during Mass.
I even remember , in the old days, the Priest would directly put the Sacrament in your mouth, until they changed it and put it in your hand. I do not know what they are doing lately on that issue.
I also hated the part where I had to shake my neighbors hand during Mass, I was a germaphobe back then ,and still am.
Unless I experienced a complete hallucination, I was very much Catholic from an Italian family.
Also, you stated this:

“Obviously, you have grave doubts about your ability to be a parent if you believe there is a real likelihood that your child would grow up to be like Ted Bundy.

That is what I mean by finding out that I would not like my child as a person, if said child was a creep.

I’m guessing it’s far more likely a child would think you were a creep”

Actually no. My friend’s children ( the good kids) think my husband and I are great. I get along great with my nieces and nephews.
Most of my friends , 3/4 of them, have good kids.Great kids! The other 1/4 of my friends have real problem children. I would never want them as my children, and there was nothing in their upbringing that should have made them turn into the Devil Spawn. But they are devils. I am glad they are not mine.
Abstinence is a great thing to promote, but very hard for most people to do. Were you a virgin before marriage? Have you had sex outside marriage? Humans have weakness. It is part of the human condition.
I am done with this conversation.I want to come home from work and relax. You see, wagglebee, someone has to work and pay for your Social Security, disability, or whatever government income you are on. You seem to have a lot of time on these threads, and quite frankly, I have to earn a living to pay for the 50% of people who do not pay taxes, but get supported by the government. It is just too tiring to deal with those people on these threads after work. It appears to me that the working people come, make a few comments, and leave. The non working people live here. I would rather have a glass of wine, and take a spin on my boat in the water outside my house after work than to deal with this.
Bye, bye.


710 posted on 08/24/2011 9:16:28 PM PDT by kaila
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To: kaila; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
That is interesting,that you do not believe that I used to be a Catholic. I remember my classmates amd I giving the nuns a hard time , and having the priest come in to our class and yell at us- on Sun ( although it could have been Sat- I was a kid). I just remember hating it, and not wanting to go.
I also remember kneeling before the Bishop at confirmation, and getting my Catholic name of Rosalina.
I also remember a kid barfing during the first Communion ceremony.It was a smelly ceremony.
I also remember in the old days, women had to wear a little round veil on the head, as you could not enter the Church without one. Men were exempt from that rule.
I remember going into the confessional and saying- “Bless me father, for I have sinned , it has been... since my last confession .” Then I would recite my sins. The priest would tell me how many Our Fathers and Hail Marys I would have to say. I would say it so fast, I was out of there in a couple of minutes.
I remember the stand up, sit, kneel down during Mass. I even remember , in the old days, the Priest would directly put the Sacrament in your mouth, until they changed it and put it in your hand. I do not know what they are doing lately on that issue.
I also hated the part where I had to shake my neighbors hand during Mass, I was a germaphobe back then ,and still am.
Unless I experienced a complete hallucination, I was very much Catholic from an Italian family.

Yes, these "remembrances" of Catholic upbringing can be found all over the internet.

However, you still fail to address the fact that Catholics have NEVER had Sunday school.

I am curious, when do you first remember being repulsed about shaking hands with the other congregants?

Nevertheless, NONE of this matters because this thread isn't about the Catholic Church or the Church's teachings on contraception, it is about the fact that contraception doesn't decrease abortion. This is a topic which you have yet to address, which is not surprising given your willingness to see infants murdered.

Actually no. My friend’s children ( the good kids) think my husband and I are great. I get along great with my nieces and nephews.
Most of my friends , 3/4 of them, have good kids.Great kids! The other 1/4 of my friends have real problem children. I would never want them as my children, and there was nothing in their upbringing that should have made them turn into the Devil Spawn. But they are devils. I am glad they are not mine.

So, you believe that a quarter of your friends have evil children?

I am done with this conversation.I want to come home from work and relax. You see, wagglebee, someone has to work and pay for your Social Security, disability, or whatever government income you are on. You seem to have a lot of time on these threads, and quite frankly, I have to earn a living to pay for the 50% of people who do not pay taxes, but get supported by the government.

You puerile troll. I am not on any type of government income. I have a very good job as does my wife, I probably pay more in taxes than you make. In addition to this, my family is very wealthy. Nevertheless, if this is your way of bowing out, I can understand why you would want to.

711 posted on 08/25/2011 5:48:38 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: kaila

Is personally insulting someone with whom you disagree your idea of a convincing argument?


712 posted on 08/25/2011 5:56:03 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham
In the absence of facts, people will typically resort to infantile behavior.
713 posted on 08/25/2011 6:32:15 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Bwaaahhaaahaaahaa! You’re on the government dole. Oh, that is priceless! Ahahahahaha! What a much needed laugh that was this morning. I’ll be giggling over that all day. Wagglebee, taking government handouts, waiting in line for his piece of the pie or should I say cheesecake? *snicker* That’s funny stuff!! :0)


714 posted on 08/25/2011 7:11:41 AM PDT by samiam1972 ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."-Mother Teresa)
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To: samiam1972; wagglebee

I suppose it is so ridiculous as to be laughable. :)


715 posted on 08/25/2011 7:19:07 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: samiam1972; trisham
Yep, I'm just sitting here in the housing project waiting for my welfare check to come on the 1st!
716 posted on 08/25/2011 7:43:14 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

“Is this just fantasy? Caught in a landslide. No escape from reality”

Intelligent,logical minds say yes.


717 posted on 08/25/2011 7:46:24 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: wagglebee

Fool, de check don’t no more come on the 1st. Where you been boy? The check come on the 5th you must be high to be forgeetin’ that.


718 posted on 08/25/2011 7:48:33 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: lastchance; samiam1972; trisham
Fool, de check don’t no more come on the 1st. Where you been boy? The check come on the 5th you must be high to be forgeetin’ that.

Hell, I don't care, I'm just waiting on the hurricane so I can start looting. I've got a couple bottles of Wild Irish Rose and a can of Spam!

719 posted on 08/25/2011 8:02:55 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Got to have them cigs too. Just don’t light up around the meth lab.


720 posted on 08/25/2011 8:18:08 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: wagglebee; lastchance; samiam1972
Hell, I don't care, I'm just waiting on the hurricane so I can start looting. I've got a couple bottles of Wild Irish Rose and a can of Spam!

*****************************

LOL!

721 posted on 08/25/2011 8:19:53 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: lastchance

LOLOLOLOL!


722 posted on 08/25/2011 8:21:07 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: wagglebee

“I’m just waiting on the hurricane so I can start looting.”

Can you pick up a flat screen TV for me and an infant car seat? :0)


723 posted on 08/25/2011 8:57:33 AM PDT by samiam1972 ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."-Mother Teresa)
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To: samiam1972; trisham
Can you pick up a flat screen TV for me and an infant car seat? :0)

I might have to use the TV as a raft to float the beer down the road!

724 posted on 08/25/2011 9:10:19 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: AndyJackson; surroundedbyblue

Christ also said to obey the commandments, thy shall not kill is one of them and if one uses a form of birth control where a child is prevented from living (killed) after conception, then one is killing their baby. For the life of me I can understand how conservatives say life begins at conception and when they practice birth control that can kill an embryo they are ok with that..


725 posted on 08/25/2011 10:47:00 AM PDT by Coleus
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To: wagglebee; samiam1972; trisham

you guys are cracking me up!!


726 posted on 08/25/2011 10:53:17 AM PDT by Coleus
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To: wagglebee; lastchance; samiam1972

“Necessity is the mother of invention”. :)


727 posted on 08/25/2011 11:21:11 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Coleus

I was thinking about that earlier too.


728 posted on 08/25/2011 11:22:44 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Scotswife

“I’m not sure which part of Humanae Vitae does that. I don’t recall ever getting a letter from the pope telling us how to spend our money.”

Dern, Wagglebee, you are one charitable person.

Myself, I get all irate when I see libtards ignoring the actual issues and pretending that contraception is nothing more than “spending money.”

“I’m confused by your concern with nose-sticking, nosiness, and this seeming epidemic of voyerism. I don’t know anyone like this. At all.”

That’s a narrative the left created to draw people’s gaze away from the real issues.

“Years later, the arguments are the same only with different names.”

Not always. Since I began these asynchronous conversations on line, back around 1990, I have been forced by evidence and reason to change my opinions on the existence of God, extramarital sex, same-sex attraction disorder, abortion, the legalization of drugs, divorce, the nature of marriage, play-pretend women clergy, altar girls, and probably a bunch of other stuff I don’t remember right now.

I persuaded at least one person that SSAD is not a good thing, albeit over a period of months.

I don’t know how much good is done by standing up to Satan and all his works on line, but I am persuaded that it is more than none.

“I don’t think that what is going on in one small section of cyberland is affecting any election outcome.”

One brick in the wall, perhaps, but still one brick.

“When did all of this become NEWS to anyone?”

There are book-smart, well-educated people who are leftards *despite* those facts rather than because of them. I think the baptismal vows explain that thoroughly in one phrase: “The Glamor of Evil.”

“In the catholic church there is a great divide between liberal and conservative catholics...the more you agree with the Church on these issues - the more likely it is you will be pulling the “R” lever.”

Spot on.

When people speak of leftism, they are usually referring to economic leftism (which makes a people poor), political leftism (which enslaves a people), and social leftism (which robs a people of moral standards and artistic discernment).

There is, however, another form of leftism—one that is rarely called by its name. This is theological leftism, and it may be the worst of them all, as it leads one away from God while insisting on its own superiority to “outdated tradition.”

Now, we know that all leftism is of and from Satan. We observe how the proponents of leftism lie constantly, attempt to deceive, coerce those who won’t be deceived, and extol the tolerance of evil—including abortion, divorce, sodomy, promiscuity, and even mass murder. This is true as well of theological leftism. It seeks to foment disobedience to God by appeal to a “more modern,” and therefore superior, “understanding” of the Bible.

When we seek to discern whether a given premise or movement is theologically leftist, then, we can look for several telltale characteristics.
1. Does it claim an understanding of Scripture that is superior to what existed before?
2. Do its proponents rely extensively on falsehood when discussing differences?
3. Do its proponents engage in coercion, either inside our outside their own group?
4. Does it claim the moral superiority of the tolerance of evil, particularly that which allows the indulgence of the sin of lust (divorce, sodomy, promiscuity, etc)?
5. Above all, does it countenance the slaughter of the most innocent?

There are theological leftists within the Catholic Church, yes, but because its foundations are solid, they have been unable to bring it down. It appears that evil within the Church has reached its high-water mark and is receding, laus Deo.

One need not look far to find churches that are totally under the sway of the five telltales listed above, and some within them display one more characteristic of theological leftism: blind, irrational hatred of the Catholic Church. When such people attempt to criticize the Church, they do so with all the hatred, illogic, and dishonesty shown by any other sort of leftist.

It is worth noting that one can be a theological leftist while retaining conservative beliefs in the economic and political realms.

“I would suppose an atheist conservative would be a business minded, supply sider. I would even expect them to be anti-abortion (ex:godlessprolifers)”

Conservatism is a seamless garment. There are no gaps, no disconnects, no conflicts, no contradictions in this world view. However, many—perhaps all—of us who have recovered or are in the process of recovering from default liberalism in our youth recover one step at a time. Even after a “road to Damascus” experience, we may first come to understand the issue of abortion, but continue to think that extra-marital sex, divorce, and sodomy are just fine. Next, perhaps, we have an epiphany on divorce, then a couple of years later our eyes are opened on the subject of extra-marital sex. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And, of course, all fall short.

Over the past 12 years, I have seen recovering liberals at all stages here on FR. I have gone through stages myself. And I have also come to think that economic conservatism by itself is little more than the love of money. Sure, economic conservatives understand how a country makes itself prosperous, but how are they different from the cynic who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing?

I will admit that I have never seen in the eyes of an economic conservative that whacko, vacant, Stepford-human googledygob stare you find in the eyes of a “social justice” Catholic. That may be because economic conservatism is not of and from Satan, whereas the Earl of Hell has to have his hooks in you pretty deeply before you can accept the horrors of abortion, promiscuity, divorce, and sodomy.

Still, economic conservatism is incompatible with sexual libertarianism, because those vices cost society a lot of money and other resources. Ditto divorce and promiscuity. And the only way all those things can be brought into line is through God. If you fail to grasp that God exists, you will be dealing with or repressing contradictions constantly.

IMO, a person who is an atheist is not a conservative. He is a liberal who understands some economics.

“Not once have I seen it presented that jews vote democrat because the catholic church opposed artificial birth control.”

Best I can tell, many Jews vote Democrat for the same reason blacks do: they are convinced that Republicans are prejudiced against them.


729 posted on 08/25/2011 12:56:40 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Scotswife

Sorry for calling you Wagglebee. I meant to say Scotswife, of course.


730 posted on 08/25/2011 1:09:00 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: dsc; kaila

thanks for the post! I haven’t been online all day.

This made me, literally, laugh out loud!

“I will admit that I have never seen in the eyes of an economic conservative that whacko, vacant, Stepford-human googledygob stare you find in the eyes of a “social justice” Catholic”

Ohhhh....the stories I could tell! (snort!)
Yes - I know that look all too well.
The words “social justice” make the hairs on my neck stand up.

Yes - it’s a “charged” issue - and it can be frustrating to see “FRiends” go at each other. But that is the nature of the beast when a debate breaks out.

After the past 3 years,I’m a bit worn out, and I’m already anticipating next year’s (hopeful) celebration.

“the enemy of my enemy is my friend”

As far as I’m concerned - no matter what part of the political spectrum someone may occupy - if they vote against Obama next november and make him a one termer, then they are my FRiend.
I will remember them in my prayers and thank God for every single soul that helps bring this man down!


731 posted on 08/25/2011 5:01:29 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: trisham

and I bet I know what religion they are not..


732 posted on 08/26/2011 4:54:49 PM PDT by Coleus
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