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Iraqi sniper who killed two Marines released as families mark fifth anniversary of deaths
New York Daily News ^ | 8/21/11 | Michael Daly

Posted on 08/21/2011 11:10:26 AM PDT by Nachum

The Iraqi sniper captured after he killed two Marines has been freed and is at liberty - even as the still-grieving families of Brooklyn-raised Capt. John McKenna 4th and Queens-raised Michael Glover gather in Rockaway today for a memorial marking the fifth anniversary of their deaths.The families had been assured that "as long as there is a Marine in Iraq, the sniper will remain in jail." Their already overwhelming loss has been compounded by the failure of the Defense Department to inform them that Muhammad (Big Ears) Awwad Ahmad had been released.

(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: iraqi; killed; lobster; marines; obama; sniper; vacation; vinyard
Obama would have stopped this, but he's on vacay
1 posted on 08/21/2011 11:10:35 AM PDT by Nachum
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To: Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; EricTheRed_VocalMinority; ...

The list, ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list

http://www.nachumlist.com/


2 posted on 08/21/2011 11:11:33 AM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; EricTheRed_VocalMinority; ...

The list, ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list

http://www.nachumlist.com/


3 posted on 08/21/2011 11:13:01 AM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Nachum

THX for all the pings!
This post makes me sicker than most! How can this happen?
Yet a person with a misdemeanor will sit and rot at taxpayer expense in a sub human jail cell.


4 posted on 08/21/2011 11:21:03 AM PDT by charlene4 ("The only people who d("on’t want to disclose the truth are people with something to hide.” BHO)
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To: Nachum

This would not be an issue had he been killed on the spot. Idiotic Goody Two-Shoes ROE.


5 posted on 08/21/2011 11:23:31 AM PDT by Moltke (Always retaliate first.)
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To: Nachum

The Government will make sure Roger Clemens pays for this though.


6 posted on 08/21/2011 11:30:17 AM PDT by omega4179 (Obama Downgrade)
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To: Nachum

This is a ‘war crime’ committed by our Defense Department by way of Obama’s hand prints. Incredible; but all too believable .


7 posted on 08/21/2011 11:34:04 AM PDT by cricket (Osama - NOT made in the USA. . . .and Obama, not madhttp://atlasshrugs2000e in the USA either.. .)
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To: Nachum

Bwahahahahahhahahaaaa!


8 posted on 08/21/2011 11:36:43 AM PDT by bigheadfred (The world needs wannabees)
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To: Nachum

Awwad Ahmad, the sniper, killed both Marines during the battle of Fallujah. And the US classified him like a criminal.

This matters a *lot*, because of the widespread confusion in the US government as to whether insurgents were non-uniformed fighters, and thus subject to harsh rules, including field trial and execution; or “criminals”, and thus subject to international rules of arrest, detention, evidence and jurisdiction.

That is, if the US had classified al-Qaeda as non-uniformed combatants, by international law we could have hung every one we captured, after a brief, almost administrative trial. Instead the US government chose to handle them as “criminals”.

But since the US military are not policemen, nor do they gather evidence, every single one of those combatants is going to eventually have to be released by the Iraqi courts, unless the Iraqis have other evidence of a crime.

This shows how fouled up our policy was, and remains.

In any event, we are for the most part leaving Iraq, and the prisons we manage are going to be turned over to the Iraqis. So expect to see a LOT of this in the future.


9 posted on 08/21/2011 11:37:46 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Nachum

If he’s a legal combatant, this is no big deal.
If he was not a legal combatant, they should have shot him.


10 posted on 08/21/2011 11:40:13 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Nachum

Just wait until he starts killing Americans again.


11 posted on 08/21/2011 11:40:16 AM PDT by Dogbert41 (http://www.durban3nyc.com/. Go there and learn what those who seek to destroy Israel are up to)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Agreed.


12 posted on 08/21/2011 11:52:44 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: Nachum

I just don’t get this whole, “treat war as if it were a crime” BS.

Would we tolerate one of our snipers being held in jail? POW jail, perhaps...but the maximum security pen down the street?

We have to stop fighting wars with these silly rules. We need to stop fighting silly wars.

Fight to win, and go home.


13 posted on 08/21/2011 11:58:22 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (George Lopez is the black hole of funny. Nothing funny can escape his suck.)
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To: Nachum

Obama probably pardoned him.


14 posted on 08/21/2011 11:59:17 AM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: Nachum

Abu Bush elevated these people/animals ,to be equal with Americans,He should have been capped the instant he was caught!


15 posted on 08/21/2011 11:59:38 AM PDT by Cheetahcat (Carnival commie side show, started November 4 2008 ,A date that will live in Infamy.)
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To: Vermont Lt; AEMILIUS PAULUS; Nachum; yefragetuwrabrumuy
this is no big deal

Would we tolerate one of our snipers being held in jail?

BWAAAHAHAHAAHAAA!

This thread gets more hilarious by the minute.

16 posted on 08/21/2011 12:04:13 PM PDT by bigheadfred (The world needs wannabees)
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To: bigheadfred

What is hilarious about that?


17 posted on 08/21/2011 12:05:32 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (George Lopez is the black hole of funny. Nothing funny can escape his suck.)
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To: bigheadfred

I do not understand what you are saying? I never said “it is no big deal” that this man is being released. On the contrary he should, under international law, have been treated as a Franc Tireur and shot/hung after a hearing. The post I responded to was making that distinction and pointing out a flawed American policy in Iraq towards civilian snipers. Maybe I read the gentleman who posted the comment wrongly, though I doubt it.


18 posted on 08/21/2011 12:15:43 PM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: Vermont Lt

Why, my nephew, the ARMY SNIPER, Sgt. Evan Vela, is currently in Fort F&&&ING LEAVENWORTH PRISON doing a dime for killing an Iraqi POS. Surely you know him? One of The Leavenworth Ten.

But the really, really funny part?

Last year at Evan’s Parole hearing they said, “Despite overwhelming family and community support, the support of the two Idaho U.S. Senators and Evan’s U.S. Congressman, AND the Idaho Governor, and the fact that the man who had a job ready and waiting who flew to Washington D.C. at his own expense to assure the Board of his genuinicity, despite all that we feel YOU, Evan, haven’t done enough TIME for your “CRIME””.

Absolutely HILARIOUS.


19 posted on 08/21/2011 12:21:09 PM PDT by bigheadfred (The world needs wannabees)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2766916/posts?page=19#19


20 posted on 08/21/2011 12:23:02 PM PDT by bigheadfred (The world needs wannabees)
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To: bigheadfred

Honest to God, I did not know that.

I will do some research on that. I am sorry for that, I truly am.

Thank you for pointing that out.


21 posted on 08/21/2011 12:40:10 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (George Lopez is the black hole of funny. Nothing funny can escape his suck.)
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To: Nachum

Yeah back when I was in Iraq in 2005,we did have a policy of keeping an eye on terrorists/insurgents being released from jail.This is really nothing new.

As for the sniper,he fought for his town and his people.Either give him the death he wanted or toss him back on the streets.Let the Iraqi security forces deal with him one way or another.

I never viewed anyone over in Iraq,I was fighting against as truly criminal for the most part things went insane out there.


22 posted on 08/21/2011 12:40:26 PM PDT by Del Rapier
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To: bigheadfred

This is not my United States.

Our country has gone to hell in a handbasket, driven by Democrats liberals Judges with sh!t for brains and a Muslim Faux President.


23 posted on 08/21/2011 12:45:37 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Vermont Lt

I posted a thread or 2. Keyword ‘vela’.

And that WAS really laughter. Just the psychotic kind.


24 posted on 08/21/2011 12:48:43 PM PDT by bigheadfred (The world needs wannabees)
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To: Venturer

Yea, verily.


25 posted on 08/21/2011 12:49:25 PM PDT by bigheadfred (The world needs wannabees)
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To: bigheadfred

A good President would pardon them. Let’s hope we get one.


26 posted on 08/21/2011 12:51:34 PM PDT by Surrounded_too
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To: Surrounded_too
A good President would pardon them.

I guess that leaves out both Bush and Obama. But in all fairness we didn't try Obama. Pretty pointless asking that moslem for anything.

27 posted on 08/21/2011 12:55:52 PM PDT by bigheadfred (The world needs wannabees)
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To: bigheadfred

So, I just want to make sure I have the facts correct:

While Sgt Vela was a sniper, he did not shoot the man in that capacity.

He was ordered to shoot an unarmed man, with his hands raised. While I have never been in combat, I know that unless the person is an immediate threat (as in the case of a suicide bomber) this was an illegal order.

Sgt Vela admitted to this in court, under oath.

I am not sure the story is germane to this thread because the context of the shootings is different. It is also true that Vela was not imprisoned for any of the people he shot on that mission, nor any of the other missions he completed.

I do agree that his sentence should have been less. But the facts as I read them point to him being guilty of following an illegal order.


28 posted on 08/21/2011 1:01:20 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (George Lopez is the black hole of funny. Nothing funny can escape his suck.)
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To: Nachum
The basic problem here is that once that idiot stood on the deck of that aircraft carrier back in 2003 and announced that combat operations in Iraq were over, there was no way for the U.S. to apply any legal status to "the enemy" other than: (1) a non-uniformed combatant, or (2) an Iraqi criminal. If the military campaign is formally ended, then there is no longer an "enemy" to deal with and the U.S. is basically nothing more than a well-armed Peace Corps operating under fire.

This is why the U.S. never should have been in that sh!t-hole in the first place. If this country was really supposed to be fighting a "war on terror," we were on the wrong side going all the way back to the first Gulf War in 1990.

29 posted on 08/21/2011 1:04:48 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Vermont Lt

In the short sense, yes.

Please read this. It is long.

http://www.esquire.com/features/michael-hensley-0708


30 posted on 08/21/2011 1:13:01 PM PDT by bigheadfred (The world needs wannabees)
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To: Alberta's Child
The basic problem here is that once that idiot stood on the deck of that aircraft carrier back in 2003 and announced that combat operations in Iraq were over

Get it straight. This is what the president said... "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country.

And securing does not mean putting a lock on a door.

31 posted on 08/21/2011 1:13:49 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: Alberta's Child
The basic problem here is that once that idiot stood on the deck of that aircraft carrier back in 2003 and announced that combat operations in Iraq were over

Get it straight. This is what the president said... "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country.

And securing does not mean putting a lock on a door.

32 posted on 08/21/2011 1:13:49 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: Admin Moderator

Please remove. Sorry for the double post.


33 posted on 08/21/2011 1:15:16 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
In other words . . . "This military campaign is now a nation-building exercise that I criticized the last administration for pursuing before I took office."

Like I said: A well-armed Peace Corps operating under fire. This is what you get when you have a country run by lawyers.

34 posted on 08/21/2011 1:17:53 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Nachum

Hopefully one of our very well trained military will take it upon their self to hunt this maggot down and exterminate him.
Were it me, I’d take out his entire family first then him just to make and example.


35 posted on 08/21/2011 1:26:00 PM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) Obammy, the first affirmative action president.)
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To: Alberta's Child
In other words . . .

Well, that's the problem. Use his exact words, not your made up ones.

I do agree with your following statement. The results are obvious. We entered Afghanistan in 2001 militarily. The geniuses that we have elected and that lead our military continue a war 10 years later with no resolution in sight. What are they trying for?, A new hundred-year war? The thirty years war is within arms reach.

The objective of war is to win. If you can't win, don't go there.

36 posted on 08/21/2011 1:43:07 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: bigheadfred; Alberta's Child
Please read this. It is long.

Thanks for the link.

Alberta's Child... Here is a quote from the link that demonstrates the thinking that we hold now.

"My soldiers are paratroopers," Balcavage says. "And when paratroopers come to a country, all they want to do is kill and break stuff. Well, you can do that all day long without any progress. You've got to do it with the Iraqis. You can't win a war just by killing people."

The writer easily recognizes a flaw in the "logic" presented.

But then, you can't win a war just by paying people, either, or else it wouldn't be war. And Balcavage was at war before the surge took hold. His men were being shot at by snipers and blown up by IEDs. They were taking mortar fire. In the IED attack that gave the battalion its first combat fatality, on December 20, 2006, one of the survivors lost not only his legs below the knee but also his penis, and the soldier who died was electrocuted by a power line transformed by the blast into a lethal whip.

37 posted on 08/21/2011 1:58:32 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: Vermont Lt

In my VN experience captured VC were turned over to the
ARVN for whatever passed for legal process in their system.

We weren’t supposed to shoot them out of hand, although
it did happen from time to time.

In earlier wars, there would have been a short proceeding
before the senior officer commanding, followed by a hanging or firing squad. Since Hamdan v. Runsfeld overturned the
prior art in dealing with ununiformed combatants, soldiers probably have to treat all captured enemy as if they are state actors in uniform.


38 posted on 08/21/2011 2:06:19 PM PDT by RitchieAprile (The Democrat Party is a continuing criminal enterprise..)
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To: Del Rapier

I agree, the sniper was an Iraqi fighting in his country against a foreign army, he killed two of the enemy’s soldiers in battle. Those were not acts of terrorism or war crimes. I am glad his side lost and the US won but simply fighting against US forces does not make someone a terrorist or criminal.

As others have said the US forces who captured him could have executed him on the spot as an irregular fighter (assuming he was an irregular and not a uniformed member of the Iraqi army) but once they captured him and handed him over to the proper authorities he became a prisoner of war and as such entitled to his freedom once the conflict was ended.

It was idiotic to treat this man as if he was a criminal.


39 posted on 08/21/2011 6:32:13 PM PDT by PotatoHeadMick
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To: Nachum

BUMP!


40 posted on 10/02/2011 10:11:24 AM PDT by 444Flyer
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