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The Goldwater Talking Point (gearing up for Rick Perry)
RedState ^ | August 22, 2011 | Erick Erickson

Posted on 08/22/2011 2:29:17 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

The media typically begins any Presidential campaign with comparisons to Harry Truman. The Reagan re-election in 1984 had the comparison. The Bush re-election in 1992 had the comparison. The Clinton re-election in 1996 had the comparison. Humorously, the off year election of 2002 used the Truman comparison too, as did 2004.

The media does this not only because a lot of them are lazy and not only because a lot of them talk with each other at beltway soirees where they infect each other with their various often contrived narratives and talking points, but also because they really do want to help put the election in some historic context.

Whenever a President is embattled, the media falls back to Truman.

But there is something else the media does — and typically does because of a leftward bias, a reliance on both establishment Republicans in Washington as their chief GOP sources and their Democratic friends as Democratic sources— they compare the Republican Primary to 1964.

Every conservative candidate must withstand the “Is he Barry Goldwater” question. Never mind that Barry Goldwater has been tried repeatedly by the Democrats and the only person it ever worked against was Barry Goldwater.

The Democrats have made clear, and the media is seizing on, President Obama’s campaign statements that if Rick Perry is the nominee, they’ll go with Goldwater 1964 and if Mitt Romney is the nominee, they’ll go with John Kerry 2004 as the flip flopping opportunist. Neither of these will work this year and all you have to do is follow along as I step in the way back machine and take you back to the news as it existed on the campaign trail of 1979 and 1980.

“Is defeat probable for GOP if Reagan wins nomination?” blared the headline of the Christian Science Monitor on March 5, 1980. That was just the start of it.“Can conservative Ronald Reagan possibly attract enough independent and Democratic votes to win in November?” wrote Richard J. Cattani in that Christian Science Monitor article. He continued,

“Reagan is the opponent of choice for Carter,” says I. A. Lewis, director of the Los Angeles Times Poll, a point on which most analysts agree. “But Reagan can reach across and cause mischief in the Democratic constituency,” Mr. Lewis says. “Reagan appeals to blue collar, working-class voters. He can win Democratic votes.”

“Carter could beat Reagan more easily than he could Bush or Baker,” Mr. Lewis says. “A moderate Republican would appeal to moderate Democrats, while upper-income Republicans might defect from Reagan to the Demcorats. Ford is of course, the strogest in the polls against Carter. But if he became a candidate, he could sink the same way Kennedy did after he declared.”

Elections analyst Richard Scammon, who thinks a candidate must command the political center to win the presidency, gives neither Reagan nor Ford much chance.

The Christian Science Monitor led the field for the month of March with a number of overwrought “analyses” on just how vulnerable Ronald Reagan was as a far right extremist.

Five days after Cattani’s article, Newsweek’s Dennis A. Williams penned “The GOP’s Hamlet”. Parroting talking points that the McCain campaign could have given in 2008 or the Huntsman camp this year, Williams wrote

The talk of another Ford candidacy — only three months after he formally removed himself from a string of primaries — betrayed an air of alarm on the part of many middle-road Republicans. Faced with Bush’s unexpected slide in New Hampshire and Howard Baker’s chronically weak campaign, GOP centrists — Ford among them — saw in Reagan’s resurgence the potential for another Goldwater debacle. Ford, by contrast, was an ideologically safe, fondly remembered party loyalist who very nearly beat Jimmy Carter in 1976. Gallup polls last month showed Ford leading Reagan — and trailing Carter by a narrower margin than any other GOP contender in general-election trial heats. “Jerry Ford,” argues one former aide, “is the only politician around who neutralizes Carter’s positives” — solid character and Presidential stature — “and accentuates his negatives” — primarily an inflation rate 10 points higher than when Ford left office. Thus, even though the odds are long, the hour late and the scenario strewn with ifs, Ford remains the panic-button choice of many in his party and the Republican most feared by Carter strategists.

And there it was — the Goldwater Talking Point. Only useful against Barry Goldwater, it became the media template for the “far-right” candidate who could not win over the American public because of his “far-right” extremism. The moderate candidate was “most feared” by the Democrat. Surely the GOP would not be suicidal enough to go with Reagan.

Building off the Goldwater Talking Point, George Esper of the Associated Press wrote up a press conference from moderate, soon to be third party candidate, John Anderson on March 21, 1980.

“I cannot believe that the Republican Party will condemn itself to the kind of lopsided electoral contest that took place in 1964,” Anderson told a regional meeting of business people in Stamford.

It was one of his strongest statements against Reagan. He referred to the 1964 presidential election when the Republican candidate — Sen. Barry Goldwater, like Reagan, a conservative — was swamped in a landslide victory by Lyndon B. Johnson. “I am afraid that the nomination of Mr. Reagan will only ensure the re-election of Mr. Carter and further ensure the continuing economic disaster that we have suffered now for three years,” the Illinois congressman said.

“I cannot believe that with the mounting problems America faces,” he said, “the voters in November will have a choice only between the economic policies of Ronald Reagan and those of Jimmy Carter.”

Get ready to call Jon Huntsman “John Anderson” if a guy like Rick Perry gets the nomination.

On the same day, the Canadian Globe and Mail’s Lawrenece Martin called Reagan “Ronald ‘send-in-the-Marines’ Reagan . . . whose appeal to [independents], at best, is limited.”

All of these articles were in March of 1980, around the time Reagan clearly was locking up the nomination. Back in 1979, they were just as predictable.

As early as January 29, 1979, in an article by Peter Goldman and Eleanor Clift in Newsweek entitled “The Politics of Austerity,” we learned this interesting nugget:

[I]t remains a measure of the stresses between Carter and the Democratic left that his people anticipate more trouble with his renomination than his re-election. Their winter-book bet for the Republican nomination is Ronald Reagan, and they consider him beatable, so long as Carter monopolizes the center – “just 80 per cent of the people,” says Jordan – and isolates Reagan on the outer right.

The left and media began immediately building up the concerns about Reagan being too far right.

On June 23, 1979, Barry Sussman in the Washington Post wrote, “Reagan has not picked up substantial support from party activists who represent either strong moderate or small liberal elements of the party, the poll indicates. Many appear to be concerned about some of Reagan’s followers – “arch-conservative kooks,” one poll respondent called them.”

Then, in an echo of the Perry criticisms from conservatives in Texas and elsewhere, Newsweek kicked off on October 1, 1979, with “The Leading Man” by Tom Mathews. In the article, Mathews suggests one of Reagan’s problems is surprisingly that he is too moderate for some, but is still too far right for most.

And before staking out his position on SALT last week — for genuine arms control, against any one-way street favoring the Soviet Union — he consulted Albert Wohlstetter, an academic expert on national-defense and security issues who has Democratic ties. “He wants to get the best advice he can whether these people support him or not,” says issues adviser Martin Anderson.

All this has led to some grumbling among righter-than-thou Republicans that Reagan may be sacrificing his ideological purity to his White House ambitions, a charge he angrily denies. His strategists quivered rather ambiguously last week when The New York Times reported that his latest position on SALT II was “moderately worded.” “If The New York times says he’s softening his image we can’t control that,” said Lake. “It might even help in the East, but over-all it could hurt.” And the truth seemed to be that Reagan intended to shift as little as possible. “Anyone who wants to moderate him is going to have a tough time,” said former aide Lyn Nofziger, who dropped from the Reagan campaign after losing a squabble over campaign assignments and policy issues. “They have taken a little of the hardness out of the hard line — but that’s a long way from moving him to the left.”

As an aside, the same Newsweek article notes that Reagan was in favor of a Chrysler bankruptcy instead of a bailout — a position many Republican donors were uncomfortable with.

On November 16, 1979, Walter R. Mears wrote an AP News Analysis for the Associated Press in which he wrote, “Last time, one of Reagan’s problems was to dispel the suggestion that he was too far right, too extreme a conservative, for the nomination or the presidency. When that came up, as it often did, Reagan would recite his record as a candidate and as governor of California. When Ford called him too far right, Reagan replied that the president twice had tried to recruit him for Cabinet positions.”

The Economist followed a few days later on November 24, 1979, explicitly drawing the Goldwater-Reagan connection.

Ever since 1964, when he made a rousing speech at the Republican convention that nominated Senator Barry Goldwater for president, Mr Reagan has been the darling of the Republican right. . . .

If Mr Reagan does not lose the Republican nomination, present opinion polls suggest that he will lose to either Senator Kennedy or President Carter next November. The latest Gallup poll shows Mr Reagan trailing the senator by 16 percentage points, and Mr Carter by six. The Republican party’s minority status among registered voters also puts Mr Reagan at a disadvantage.

But the Economist also did what frequently happens with the “far-right” candidate — they given a wink-wink to the supposedly “far-right” voters suggesting they should back away from their extremist candidate because he really isn’t that extreme. “Even though he practised conventional, middle-of-the-road politics as governor of California from 1967 to 1975, his political language had a hard right edge,” the Economist’s reporter wrote. So he’s far-right, but even the far-right shouldn’t trust him because his record is really that of a moderate — or something like that. Rick Perry and Mitt Romney could sympathize.

The “far-right” theme continued all the way to the 1980 convention and the election.

On July 12, 1980, Haynes Johnson, writing in the Washington Post, began his profile of the Republican Convention this way:

Gone are the conflicts between progressive and conservative wings, between East and Midwest, of the past.

Absent are the personal clashes — Taft and Eisenhower, Goldwater and Rockefeller — that marked other conventions. TheGrand Old Party that has emerged out of those disputes is smaller and ideologically purer than ever — and it stands enthusiastically behind its conservative choice, Ronald Reagan.

And yet the nagging doubts intrude. They love Reagan, all right, but they can’t quite shake their worries about him. If the delegates could speak directly to their candidatein one voice now, the message would be clear — “Don’t blowit!”

They don’t want Reagan to renounce his conservative principles, but they are concerned he will be perceived by voters as too right.

“Temper your ideology with pragmatism– up to a point,” is the way one delegate offers advice tothe certain GOP standard-bearer. “Don’t depend totally on the right-wing groups. Be sensibly conservative.”

Mirroring some of the journalistic excesses of coverage today, Johnson continued, “And in a day when political party differences have blurred or become nonexistent in the eyes of manyAmericans, and in face of the continuing rise of independent voters, these Republicans cling to their convictions.”

And then Johnson delved into responses given to the Post, which are eerily similar to those of today.

“Do not compromise in order to get votes,” says a California delegate another very conservative one.

“Continue to shoot from the hip,” remarks a West Virginian, who has stood behind Reagan in the past as well as now.

But such views do not dominate the responses given The Post. What comes over is a desire — and an appeal — that Reagan be cautious in his actions, tempered in his words, and conciliatory in his approach.Uniting the party, moderating the views of the more extrememembers of the GOP, paying heed to wider range of national opinion, expanding the circle of his advisers to include a better ideological mix — these are the major concerns expressed.

The pattern is quite striking. The rhetoric and reporting mirror the fight the GOP is having today. LIke in 1980, however, and the same with 2004, the media is missing key details in their abridged world view of elections.

In 1964 and 2004, the United States was engaged in a political campaign in the middle of heightened national security tensions. In 1964, the Cold War had escalated, President Kennedy had been assassinated, and Lyndon Johnson was trying to scale back the nuclear arms race. Using a series of ads, including the famous daisy ad and the even more direct ice cream ad, Johnson portrayed Goldwater as someone who would ignite a nuclear holocaust.

In 2004, the issue was surrender in the war on terror. John Kerry portrayed himself as strong on defense, but his record suggested otherwise. Using a now famous advertisement with a pack of wolves, the Bush campaign destroyed Kerry’s reputation as someone who could be trusted to keep us safe.

In 1980, while the media rushed to the Goldwater talking point and considered Reagan too “far-right” to beat Jimmy Carter, the nation found itself in an economic mess. It was very hard to characterize Reagan as too far right for a country craving new policies to get it out of its economic mess. Voters wanted a change from Jimmy Carter.

Carter’s campaign eventually had to drop the “he’s too radical” approach and instead do what the left is now doing to Rick Perry — claiming Reagan actually did nothing to help people in California when he was Governor. They tried to destroy the idea of California as a paradise, which in 1980 was a place millions were flocking to in search of work, just as people are now going to Texas.

It did not work. Neither the Goldwater narrative nor the “he sucked as Governor” narrative worked for Carter because, quite simply, the public had given up on him.

The greatest lesson to take away now is that the media is going to again fixate on Goldwater from 1964 and Kerry from 2004, and they will probably mostly ignore the most historically relevant election points — Carter in 1980 and George H. W. Bush in 1992.

History doesn’t repeat itself. The media does.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: conservatism; goldwater; perry; perry2012; reagan
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Gov. Rick Perry says a "conservative ascendancy" is the way we must push back to reverse our slide into socialism [paraphrasing].

Perry was the 1st GOP Lt. Gov elected in Texas [1998] since reconstruction.

Along with Perry's last landslide victory in Texas [re-elected to 3rd term], we also have a legislative GOP super majority.

1 posted on 08/22/2011 2:29:25 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; potlatch; devolve; ntnychik; dixiechick2000
I went to New York with Young Americans for Freedom for its convention resolving to draft Goldwater.

Moyers the Church Lady floated the disgusting daisy-plucking girl, painting Goldwater as some kind of neanderthal warmonger—yet history showed it was the Tonkin Gulf target-sanitizer who made defeat inevitable: Bui Tin said failure to close the Ho Chi Minh Trail was Mistake Number One. Johnson cursed the Chiefs when they sought his permission to bomb Hanoi and mine Haiphong: The Day It Became The Longest War

America chose Medicare, a six-trillion-dollar “war on poverty,” and a war which consumed sixty thousand of our finest on the basis of a lack of political will.

Now comes the nauseating Huntsman who flaunts his gullibility with his belief in the hoaxes of global warming and evolution.

Who does not wish to criticize Obama the islamo-communist—just as the brainwashed loser McCain attacked any Republican exposing the current traitor-in-chief.

But Perry has that hated free and unfettered tongue which has marked Palin; Perry cares more for his country than for the sensitivities of the narcissist on the throne of megalomania.

Huntsman is despicable.

The traitor is in the gates.

We'll shove Huntsman off the wall—and use his skirts to clean the cannon.


2 posted on 08/22/2011 2:51:04 AM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hussein: Islamo-Commie from Kenya)
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To: PhilDragoo

Indeed!!


3 posted on 08/22/2011 2:57:46 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: PhilDragoo

Or as Perry’s been known to say,

“Adios MoFo.”


4 posted on 08/22/2011 3:08:58 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Perry is a compromise candidate. He has mostly conservative positions, but is not going to pass any purity tests. If he goes on to win it is because he gets enough tea party support along with enough voters from the less ideological voters. The idea that he is some sort of Goldwater is idiocy. Bachmann or Palin might potentially fit the Goldwater storyline. Even Paul. Not perry.


5 posted on 08/22/2011 3:17:51 AM PDT by ilgipper
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Here you are again, rising at five in the morning to thump the tub for Rick Perry.

I challenge you again to say that you are NOT a campaign professional hitting the boards for Governor Goodhair.

Go on, let's see how many people believe you aren't pro.

6 posted on 08/22/2011 3:37:53 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Actually I’m quite sure if it’s Romney they’ll go with “flip-flopping Barry Goldwater”.


7 posted on 08/22/2011 3:49:49 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
But such views do not dominate the responses given The Post. What comes over is a desire — and an appeal — that Reagan be cautious in his actions, tempered in his words, and conciliatory in his approach.Uniting the party, moderating the views of the more extrememembers of the GOP, paying heed to wider range of national opinion, expanding the circle of his advisers to include a better ideological mix — these are the major concerns expressed.

Haynes Johnson .... vanguard liar of the Armies of the Night. His spot in the middle circles of Hell is surely merited for all time.

Typical talking head of the TV news shows for over 20 years. What a SOS, offering phony advice to Republican candidates and voters.

8 posted on 08/22/2011 3:53:36 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

He’s got quite the experience!


9 posted on 08/22/2011 4:04:33 AM PDT by tsowellfan
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I wonder how many years Governorship Perry has compared to Romney.


10 posted on 08/22/2011 4:06:05 AM PDT by tsowellfan
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
In 1980, while the media rushed to the Goldwater talking point and considered Reagan too “far-right” to beat Jimmy Carter, the nation found itself in an economic mess. It was very hard to characterize Reagan as too far right for a country craving new policies to get it out of its economic mess. Voters wanted a change from Jimmy Carter.

Before The Storm
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And .....moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" 1964 acceptance speech .......

11 posted on 08/22/2011 4:42:03 AM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." Richard Feynman father of Quantum Physics)
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To: lentulusgracchus

LOL!

Actually, I get up around 2AM every morning.

Just pealed some boiled eggs, put a load in the laundry and set the trash by the curb.

I should get paid, shouldn’t I?

LOL


12 posted on 08/22/2011 4:43:47 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: lentulusgracchus; All
A lot of people forget about a previous member of the Republican party, John B. Anderson (from Illinois) who ran as a 3rd Party choice in 1980 when Ronald Reagan won the GOP ticket, defeating GHW Bush.

In this instance though, in the general election he drew votes from Carter.

Anderson's popularity came from a debate answer about regretful actions, where Anderson said, if he could, he would reverse his vote for the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.


13 posted on 08/22/2011 4:57:51 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan
Interesting title to the thread you linked above with the great Barry Goldwater quote.

Perry has told the MSM he isn't going through them -- he didn't get a signal msm endorsement in his last gubernatorial [2010] victory.

Notice where Perry gave his announcement -- Red State gathering.

14 posted on 08/22/2011 5:03:26 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: lentulusgracchus
We would like to know who YOU are Trolling and smearing Perry for here with SNIDE LEFTY LIKE comments like “ MR Good Hair “.

I always noticed the LEFT always accuse their opponents of the Dirty tricks they are currently implementing ?

So who do you Smear Perry for ?

15 posted on 08/22/2011 5:05:23 AM PDT by ncalburt (NO MORE WIMPS need to apply to fight the Soros Funded Puppet !)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
The LEFT always uses Accuses their opponents of the dirty tricks they are actively engaged in.

Sad to see it has spread to here.

16 posted on 08/22/2011 5:08:27 AM PDT by ncalburt (NO MORE WIMPS need to apply to fight the Soros Funded Puppet !)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Hmmmm..... good reply, but you still owe me a straight yes-or-no answer.

But we'll let it go for now.

Unless I find out you're an Austin lawyer. .... oh, wait, they don't get up until 9 a.m.

Later ....

17 posted on 08/22/2011 5:10:15 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: ncalburt
Uncoil, neighbor.

Everyone on the Texas board calls him that. We take turns. Molly Ivins called him that, and it stuck because he's just like Glen Campbell in True Grit, who "cultivated his hair like a head of lettuce".

The beeves Texans have with Rick Perry are many and honest. He got 40% of the statewide vote in 2006 and returned to office with a mere plurality. People who had options, didn't knock down any turnstiles fighting their way into the voting booths to vote for him.

He also has crummy friends: very rich uber-billionaires who employ tons of illegal aliens.

Read all about it, any newsstand is your friend.

18 posted on 08/22/2011 5:14:01 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: tsowellfan
I wonder how many years Governorship Perry has compared to Romney.

Advantage Perry, I believe. Governor since January, 2001.

Unless you disqualify Romney's incumbency altogether on the grounds that Taxachusetts isn't a State after all, but a semiautonomous exarchate of Ingsoc.

20 posted on 08/22/2011 5:17:48 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: lentulusgracchus

No.

I don’t work (paid or unpaid) for any political party or candidate.

Do you?

Lord! I guess no one can just spend their own time doing something because they believe in it anymore.


21 posted on 08/22/2011 5:19:07 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: lentulusgracchus
He also has crummy friends

I am not happy with Perry's friendship with "King" Aga Kahn, but I'm not inclined to withhold my support based on just that. I am still in wait and see mode.

22 posted on 08/22/2011 5:19:14 AM PDT by palmer (Cooperating with Obama = helping him extend the depression and implement socialism.)
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To: lentulusgracchus; Cincinatus' Wife

As a favor to the rest of us, please answer her question: are you a paid or unpaid worker for any particular presidential candidate?


23 posted on 08/22/2011 5:21:35 AM PDT by palmer (Cooperating with Obama = helping him extend the depression and implement socialism.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I don’t work (paid or unpaid) for any political party or candidate. Do you?

No, not unless you count my poll-watching on Election Day 2010 for one of the GOP judge candidates .... and for Cathy Engelbrecht and her King Street Patriots, who are baggy-core Tea Party people. "Got the shirt" too.

24 posted on 08/22/2011 5:23:03 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: lentulusgracchus; ncalburt
On November 2, 2010, Perry handily won re-election to an unprecedented third four-year term in the general election. He carried 226 out of 254 counties and polled 2,733,784 votes (54.97 percent) to White's 2,102,606 votes (42.28 percent).

He had received no endorsement from any msm outlet.

25 posted on 08/22/2011 5:24:03 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: lentulusgracchus
Your the one making the accusations here.

BY the way the entire GOP in TX has to deal with owner of
H-E-B and his rich buddies.
But the fact that Kay Baily Hutchinson and the Bush family crowd are fighting Perry makes Perry a decent choice.
There is no one perfect out there.

WHO DO YOU SUPPORT ?

26 posted on 08/22/2011 5:24:15 AM PDT by ncalburt (NO MORE WIMPS need to apply to fight the Soros Funded Puppet !)
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To: lentulusgracchus

thanks.


27 posted on 08/22/2011 5:25:34 AM PDT by palmer (Cooperating with Obama = helping him extend the depression and implement socialism.)
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To: palmer
No, but now that you mention it, what a good idea. But I think I will wait on Sarah to declare ...... and then I'll prolly just send her a check.
28 posted on 08/22/2011 5:26:48 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I was talking about the 2006 election, when the voters had a wider range of choices .... not just "Red Light Camera" Bill White of Houston, former Texas Rat Party chairman.
29 posted on 08/22/2011 5:28:51 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: ncalburt
"Accusations"? List one. I asked some pointed questions.

And I support Sarah Palin, the next President of the United States and our best shot at a Rushmore-quality president for about the next 60 years, unless I miss my guess.

30 posted on 08/22/2011 5:31:52 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: palmer
As a favor to the rest of us, please answer her question: are you a paid or unpaid worker for any particular presidential candidate?

Listen "palmer" if you don't like my postings get lost.

There are plenty of other threads you can post to.

You don't like Perry? Fine.

You don't like me getting information to the forum? Tough!

31 posted on 08/22/2011 5:32:27 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; RoosterRedux; jonrick46; deepbluesea; RockinRight; TexMom7; potlatch; ...

Perry Ping


32 posted on 08/22/2011 5:37:01 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: ncalburt
2010 With the notable exception of Lamar Smith (R), mostly Democrat giving, including a PAC contribution for Sen Chuck Schumer (D-NY), also gave to Bill White (D) who lost in his 2010 gubenatorial challenge to Rick Perry – DIDN'T FIND Rick Perry: Charles Butt [HEB CEO] Political Campaign Contributions 2010 Election Cycle [HEB is the largest private company (grocer) in Texas]
33 posted on 08/22/2011 5:37:20 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: lentulusgracchus

You voted for Bill White in the general election for Governor.


34 posted on 08/22/2011 5:44:35 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: lentulusgracchus

I’m not “pro,” and yet spend hours and hours promoting the Governor. Not everyone has some hidden agenda, some of us just like our candidate.

What’s really funny is that I could have easily gone for -— most likely would have, after seeing “The Undefeated,” — Sarah Palin if she had just entered the race earlier. I started defending some of our Texas laws and events — and opposing comments like yours — and became more and more certain that Governor Perry is the candidate I want to support.


35 posted on 08/22/2011 5:46:29 AM PDT by hocndoc (http://WingRight.org)(I've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.)(RIAing))
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
and the only person it ever worked against was Barry Goldwater.

And that is only because it was a very unique election, one year after the assasination of a popular dem prez and the veep Johnson rode those emotions to a landslide. No pubbie even had a chance to win, it was bad timing for Goldwater. In a normal year he would have done much better.

36 posted on 08/22/2011 5:51:54 AM PDT by HerrBlucher ("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." G.K. Chesterton)
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To: lentulusgracchus
I support Palin too and she is supportive of Perry too and likewise.

The two seem to have mutual respect for each other and may end up on a ticket together. These two have the GOP DC insider crowd like the Bush, Hutchinson, Rove,etc completely freaked out since they would completely be out of power and influence.

I agree the TX GOP has been held hostage by HEB crowd for way too long.

But if you want to see some employed posters just watch the Perry haters swarm here at night. It appears to be a mix of Ron Paulites and some Axelrod Obots and they are use this newly created Soros-John Thorton funded propaganda website called the “Texas Tribune “

37 posted on 08/22/2011 5:57:04 AM PDT by ncalburt (NO MORE WIMPS need to apply to fight the Soros Funded Puppet !)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
That is very interesting.
Since the HEB owner along with a few other millionaires worked hard to stop the TX GOP from passing serious illegal alien legislation. They are serious contributors to the GOP in the past.
38 posted on 08/22/2011 6:04:45 AM PDT by ncalburt (NO MORE WIMPS need to apply to fight the Soros Funded Puppet !)
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To: ncalburt
It appears to be a mix of Ron Paulites and some Axelrod Obots and they are use this newly created Soros-John Thorton funded propaganda website called the “Texas Tribune “

"Appears" indeed, because most of them will not state who they support, its like pulling teeth and they never fess up. So, yes, they either must be the Axlerod gang or the Paulistas, or both. They are extremely annoying.

39 posted on 08/22/2011 6:07:01 AM PDT by HerrBlucher ("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." G.K. Chesterton)
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To: lentulusgracchus; ncalburt
Everybody on the Texas board does NOT call him “Mr. Goodhair! Just you “baldy”. ;D
40 posted on 08/22/2011 6:07:48 AM PDT by Ditter
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To: lentulusgracchus
Molly Ivins called him that...

Why would any self-respecting conservative quote Molly Ivins? That woman was so wacked-out in her politics and so mean-spirited, she made Ann Richards look like a cuddly, little puppy.

41 posted on 08/22/2011 7:29:13 AM PDT by CommerceComet (Governor Romney, why would any conservative vote for the author of the beta version of ObamaCare?)
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To: HerrBlucher
"Appears" indeed, because most of them will not state who they support, its like pulling teeth and they never fess up. So, yes, they either must be the Axlerod gang or the Paulistas, or both. They are extremely annoying.

LOL!

Of the candidates (declared), or those of us holding out to decide from the current field if Sarah doesn't declare?

Perry just entered the race, many of us are relatively unfamilliar with him, and he's going through vetting for us.

If that gets all y'all's panties in a wad, so be it!

42 posted on 08/22/2011 9:20:23 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
If that gets all y'all's panties in a wad, so be it!

We are in the process of comparing candidates. If someone is going to bash a candidate for not being conservative enough then it must in the context of "compared to who." If the basher is not willing to fess up who their candidate is, then their argument is moot. Palin/Bachmann supporters don't hide who their candidate is, as such, one can safely assume that the bashers who don't indicate their preference are either Mittsters, axlerodians, or Paulistas. It is that simple.

43 posted on 08/22/2011 9:29:56 AM PDT by HerrBlucher ("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
That is very interesting.
Since the HEB owner along with a few other millionaires worked hard to stop the TX GOP from passing serious illegal alien legislation. They are serious contributors to the GOP in the past.
44 posted on 08/22/2011 9:54:27 AM PDT by ncalburt (NO MORE WIMPS need to apply to fight the Soros Funded Puppet !)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
In 2004, the issue was surrender in the war on terror. John Kerry portrayed himself as strong on defense, but his record suggested otherwise. Using a now famous advertisement with a pack of wolves, the Bush campaign destroyed Kerry’s reputation as someone who could be trusted to keep us safe.

Sure, that's right. John Kerry lost because Rove and company ran an ad that featured wolves. Remember how it became the focal point of the campaign?

Okay, maybe not.

45 posted on 08/22/2011 10:02:09 AM PDT by Interesting Times (WinterSoldier.com. SwiftVets.com. ToSetTheRecordStraight.com.)
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To: HerrBlucher
Compared to who??

Not really, more of a 'compared to what'?

I want to know where they stand on the issues, not who is on which side of them.

What have they done? What statist acts have they either supported or opposed?

Proof of fiscal responsibility?

Moral fiber? Et cetera.

Let's see how they all add up compared to a fixed standard, and not just who is relatively more or less than the other.

Political (moral) relativity instead of an absolute standard is how we got to the point where pro-abortion, anti-gun statists are deemed "conservative" in some areas.

If the discussion is about Perry, or Palin, or Bachmann or whoever, discuss them, don't go off to Freeper Island bashing someone else instead of discussing whoever is being discussed.

Perry supporters don't gain squat by going off on people calling them 'Paultards' and launching into tirades about Ron Paul if they haven't answered the questions about Perry, for example, because it is just changing the subject.

If anything, that'll cost Perry a second look and support because people weary of that crap.

You don't need to bash some other candidate to support your own, or you haven't got much.

46 posted on 08/22/2011 10:17:26 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
Political (moral) relativity instead of an absolute standard is how we got to the point where pro-abortion, anti-gun statists are deemed "conservative" in some areas.

When the standard is "who is most conservative", which appears to be THE standard here at FR, and there is only a small pool of candidates to choose from that demands by necessity "relativity." Weighing a candidate against some airy ideal is fine when choosing a hero, but when there is competition for a political seat, one must choose which one "best" fits the ideal.

Then, of course, there is the added, and very important, consideration, which one can win.

I have no time for those who won't show their cards. BTW, it isn't just Perry supporters that rail against "Paultards", Palin, Bachmann, Cain supporters do it too, its not like the term "Paultard" was coined AFTER Perry got in. Far from it.

47 posted on 08/22/2011 10:46:55 AM PDT by HerrBlucher ("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." G.K. Chesterton)
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To: HerrBlucher
I have no time for those who won't show their cards. BTW, it isn't just Perry supporters that rail against "Paultards", Palin, Bachmann, Cain supporters do it too, its not like the term "Paultard" was coined AFTER Perry got in. Far from it.

Interesting, but you are going to alienate the undecided--and you won't convert any 'paultards', either.

But because no declared candidate has strongly advocated doing what really needs to be done to keep our great-grandchildren from living in economic slavery, I'm still undecided.

There are 'stoppers' out there, too: some issues which frankly will cost an otherwise good candidate my vote if they take the wrong side.

I don't expect perfection, but I do expect a clear effort or at least a willingness to admit mistakes and learn from them. Actions speak louder than words, though, and if their actions belie their words, the words don't count.

Aside from that, I've noticed hostility toward people who don' just sing praises for Perry.

Well, as I said, many of us don't know him. Get over the Tejas-centricity and tell us why we should vote for him.

If there are some ugly bits, better discuss those as well, rather than berate those who bring them up. Address the issue. You won't sell me a Toyota by howling about 'Ford-bots' and berating Mercedes.

(Did you know the one made cars for the Nazis and the other had factories in the USSR?--back in the 40s!)

There are still those of us who want to kick the tires, slam the doors, look under the hood, and check under the vehicle for drips and leaks--especially the latter, because those of us who believe in a far more originalist interpretation of the Untied States Constitution than any candidate has thus far embraced have spent plenty of time under the bus--after every election.

So some of us will be slow to declare support for any primary candidate, especially this year.

We'll vote for the most Conservative, so long as we find them credible.

48 posted on 08/22/2011 12:43:42 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Sorry I should have been more clear, I wasn’t asking you since you had already answered.


49 posted on 08/22/2011 1:40:02 PM PDT by palmer (Cooperating with Obama = helping him extend the depression and implement socialism.)
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To: PhilDragoo

I’ve always enjoyed reading accounts of your many interesting experiences over the years, Phil. You should write a book!! Perhaps you have.


50 posted on 08/22/2011 3:40:29 PM PDT by potlatch (The landlord is in place,...... and the lease may soon expire.....)
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