Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Almost Everything We're Taught Is Wrong
Townhall.com ^ | August 24 2011 | John Stossel

Posted on 08/24/2011 4:02:43 AM PDT by Kaslin

We grow up learning that some things are just bad: child labor, ticket scalping, price gouging, kidney selling, blackmail, etc. But maybe they're not.

What I love about economics is that it can show that what seems harmful is actually good for society. It illuminates what common sense overlooks.

This is all covered in the eye-opening book "Defending the Undefendable" by economist Walter Block.

Most people call child labor an unmitigated evil. David Boaz of the Cato Institute and Nick Gillespie of Reason.tv say that's wrong.

"If we say that the United States should abolish child labor in very poor countries," Boaz said, "then what will happen to these children? ... They're not suddenly going to go to the country day school. ... They may be out selling their bodies on the street. That is not an improvement over working in a t-shirt factory."

In fact, studies show that in at least one country where child labor was suddenly banned, prostitution increased. Good economics teaches that as poor countries get richer and freer, capital investment raises the productivity of labor and child labor diminishes. There's no shortcut through government prohibition -- unless you like starvation and child prostitution.

What about price-gouging? State laws attempt to prevent people from charging "unconscionable" prices during emergencies.

"If I'm in the neighborhood of Hurricane Katrina," Boaz said, "what I want is water and ice and generators. ... If you are in Kentucky (and) you've got 10 generators in your store, are you getting up at 4 a.m. to drive all day to get to Louisiana to sell these generators if you can only sell them for the same price you can sell them for in Kentucky? No, you're going to go down because ... you can sell them for more."

Also, if prices rise during an emergency, that's a signal for people to buy only what they most need. That leaves more for everyone else. If the price remains low, an incentive to conserve is lost.

Ticket scalpers are seen as sleazy guys who cheat you by marking up the price of tickets. Profits go to middlemen instead of the performers. What good could they possibly do?

"I like to think of ticket scalpers as the guy who stands in line so that I don't have to," Gillespie said.

Time spent in line is part of the ticket cost. Scalpers let you pay entirely in money, rather than partly in valuable time.

Most people say that selling body parts is wrong.

"It also seems wrong to have people dying because they can't get a kidney," Boaz said.

Some 400,000 Americans are on a waiting list now for a new kidney, and they are not allowed to pay for one.

"We sell hair. We sell sperm. We sell eggs these days." Boaz added.

Gillespie added, "The best way to grow the supply and allow more people to live is to allow the market to price those organs."

Maybe the most counterintuitive position argued on my show was that blackmail should not be a crime. Blackmail (unlike extortion) is the demand for money in return for withholding information. Robin Hanson, a George Mason University economist, defends blackmail.

"The thing you're threatening when you're threatening blackmail (is) gossip," Hanson said. "If it should be all right to tell people, it should be all right to threaten to tell people."

What we don't like, however, is the blackmailer saying, "Pay me to keep quiet."

"But the effect of that is to make people behave," Hanson said. "If we (allow) blackmail, people behave even more because they are even more afraid of what might happen if they don't."

Maybe Ponzi-schemer Bernie Madoff would have been caught earlier?

"That's right. ... Blackmail is actually a form of private law enforcement."

Also, since gossip is free speech, blackmail is simply selling the service of not engaging in free speech. Why should that be outlawed?

I subtitled my last book, "Everything You Know Is Wrong." I was exaggerating, of course, but many things we're taught are fallacies. That's why I like economics. It explodes fallacies.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: blackmail; economics; johnstossel
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-108 next last

1 posted on 08/24/2011 4:02:45 AM PDT by Kaslin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Thanks for the article. It has some good points. Child labor was legal for most of the history of the U.S. Children were expected to work. They learned valuable lessons with that.


2 posted on 08/24/2011 4:11:29 AM PDT by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
"Also, since gossip is free speech, blackmail is simply selling the service of not engaging in free speech. Why should that be outlawed?"

Because it allows wealthy people to pay to cover up their illegal crimes.

3 posted on 08/24/2011 4:12:17 AM PDT by red tie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
I have long maintained that the majority of American kids would be better off working in cotton mills than sentenced to the custody of incompetent pedagogues, who will send truant officers to arrest their charges if they attempt to escape.

I include myself, my daughter and grandchildren in that population. Most of my high school teachers were grossly incompetent and crashing bores. Almost anything I ever learned worth knowing I taught myself.

4 posted on 08/24/2011 4:13:51 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing its idiot)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

5 posted on 08/24/2011 4:17:27 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Obama is a Communist, a Muslim, and an illegal alien)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

why is forced education for all Americans the law of the land.

Is there a constitutional imperative somewhere that calls for it???

My kids, once they could walk, were crawling under my car with me, or helping me put up sheet rock, painting and fixing the plumbing...

now one is an engineer who is called upon before other engineers because he can physically do things...along with the theory.


6 posted on 08/24/2011 4:17:27 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lonesome in Massachussets

The American people believe in paying pedagogues with tax money even if they don’t know what one is.


7 posted on 08/24/2011 4:23:40 AM PDT by Theodore R.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

The problem with Libertarianism is that the neglect to take morality into consideration. It is a fatal flaw in their “logic”.


8 posted on 08/24/2011 4:24:35 AM PDT by Wpin ("I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny...")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
That's why I like economics.

Economics - even sound economics - is not what makes for a good society.

But to the man with a hammer, the world looks like a nail. So Mr. Stossel will be hard to convince.
9 posted on 08/24/2011 4:25:51 AM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
"If we say that the United States should abolish child labor in very poor countries,"

Why is this our business and what gives us the authority to do this?

10 posted on 08/24/2011 4:33:36 AM PDT by occamrzr06
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lonesome in Massachussets

The kids here are way to much pampered. Take for instance if a juvenile commits a crime his or her name should be released. A juvenile from the age of 8 should know right from wrong. If not then parents and schools are failing to teach it


11 posted on 08/24/2011 4:34:04 AM PDT by Kaslin (Acronym for OBAMA: One Big Ass Mistake America)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: red tie
Because it allows wealthy people to pay to cover up their illegal crimes.

Not necessarily. If the blackmailer has any marketing skills he will charge according to the target's ability to pay. A wealthy person will be hurt by inflating the cost of silence. Qny good used car salesman knows that discerning the customer's income is the first step in determining price.

12 posted on 08/24/2011 4:35:30 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (O assumes the trappings of the presidency, not its mantle. He is not presidential.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Wpin
The problem with Libertarianism is that the neglect to take morality into consideration.

No, Libertarians don't neglect morality. They believe that the state should neither define nor enforce it.

13 posted on 08/24/2011 4:37:02 AM PDT by BfloGuy (Workers and consumers are, of course, identical.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: occamrzr06

It’s certainly a US prerogative to choose not to patronize such operations. Whether US should attempt to exercise political influence abroad to have such operations literally banned, is another question.


14 posted on 08/24/2011 4:37:14 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Lonesome in Massachussets
I include myself, my daughter and grandchildren in that population. Most of my high school teachers were grossly incompetent and crashing bores. Almost anything I ever learned worth knowing I taught myself.

I may be older than you, I graduated from high school in small town Missouri in 1963, while my teachers weren't perfect, I would not have rated a single one of them, "grossly incompetent". Some were certainly better than others but they all knew the subjects they taught.

15 posted on 08/24/2011 4:40:35 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (The only problem some people have with tyranny is that they’re not the tyrant.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Part of the problem is that punishment or the right to kick butt has been greatly diminished or abolished. Getting up in front of the class and having the Board of Education laid across your rear had in many cases, the desired effect. Same thing at home.


16 posted on 08/24/2011 4:43:45 AM PDT by bigheadfred (But alas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Another way to look at child labor is to view it as servitude. As an adult I can make my own choice between spending my time preparing for the future (as in going to school) and exploiting my present talents (working). It’s my choice and I get the reward of either choice. But with children it is someone else who either gets the present rewards or chooses to allow the child to prepare himself for the future.
So long as the parent has the best interest of the child at heart, they have a fair chance of making a good decision (which might be to choose work in some cases). If the parent does not have the child’s best interest at heart then the child is an involuntary laborer working on the behalf of others.


17 posted on 08/24/2011 4:44:32 AM PDT by conejo99
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Louis Foxwell

Who guards the guardians? Shall there be societies of meta-blackmailers, who blackmail the blackmailers? And meta-meta-blackmailers and so on, until all public discourse is well chilled and tinged in fear? God, who made the creation, surely cannot be denigrated as a fool when making statements about how to run it, such as calling for well defined systems of justice that can’t be bribed.


18 posted on 08/24/2011 4:45:13 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: BfloGuy

There has yet to be any law, any principle applying to kings, which was not based in some “ought to” type of proposition.


19 posted on 08/24/2011 4:47:19 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Hmmm, so if we allow bullying (or really teasing) in grade school, perhaps less kids will grow up gay. It’s probably not a bad trade - some stress during the early years, in exchange for a chance at a happy, normal life.


20 posted on 08/24/2011 4:49:58 AM PDT by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: conejo99

The question continues to hover about whether best interest can always be quantified in dollars and cents. Those pesky bugs of economism can’t be easily swatted away once they have been let into the room.


21 posted on 08/24/2011 4:50:21 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: BobL

Allowing the strong willed to hold unmitigated sway over the weaker willed can also produce a plethora of unwanted social effects. Consider that the unnatural act itself may be seen as a kind of forced violence. Rape is seldom about sex, usually about power.


22 posted on 08/24/2011 4:53:49 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: LearsFool

Money is a wonderful servant — and a hideous master. It is not a suitable metric for the worth of heavenly things or the horror of hellish things.


23 posted on 08/24/2011 4:57:21 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: conejo99

Did you ever have chores? I’m sure in the mind of the child, it is not in their best interest to take out the garbage or to weed the garden and do the dishes.

Does the parent not have the best interest of the child in mind when they insist that they contribute and become productive members of the family and then society?


24 posted on 08/24/2011 5:05:59 AM PDT by listenhillary (Look your representatives in the eye and ask if they intend to pay off the debt. They will look away)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

More great common sense effectively communicated by the “new” John Stossel’s “soft sell”. I go out of my way to watch his presentations on Fox.


25 posted on 08/24/2011 5:07:03 AM PDT by Mobties (Reduce the government footprint! Let the markets work!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BfloGuy

“No, Libertarians don’t neglect morality. They believe that the state should neither define nor enforce it.”

God defines morality...and when the people choose to ignore it, and that includes their government...bad things happen.


26 posted on 08/24/2011 5:08:20 AM PDT by Wpin ("I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny...")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Wpin
Always try the other shoe on first.

God defines morality...and when the people choose to ignore it, and that includes their government...bad things happen.

When and if we are out bred in sheer numbers and Islam is the government, will you say the same? Are you ready then for government enforced morality?

27 posted on 08/24/2011 5:11:22 AM PDT by listenhillary (Look your representatives in the eye and ask if they intend to pay off the debt. They will look away)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Louis Foxwell

Wealthy people should only be allowed to cover up their LEGAL crimes ;)


28 posted on 08/24/2011 5:12:40 AM PDT by Walrus (You can't begin a revolution with establishment leaders)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: listenhillary

Character building!


29 posted on 08/24/2011 5:13:45 AM PDT by Bulwyf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Lonesome in Massachussets; SirKit
I have long maintained that the majority of American kids would be better off working in cotton mills than sentenced to the custody of incompetent pedagogues, who will send truant officers to arrest their charges if they attempt to escape.

LOL! You sound like my hubby!

30 posted on 08/24/2011 5:26:42 AM PDT by SuziQ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Vaquero
Two reasons.
#1: Keeping kids in school till their mid twenties keeps them out of the labor pool.

#2: Schools are a means of indoctrination. The State loves schools, because it means they control the the next generation.

Notice learning is not one of the goals of education. Academic performance is lot rewarded, and in some schools, many if you are male, it is discouraged.

31 posted on 08/24/2011 5:27:12 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Wpin

Lets stick with Christians. Which sect? Where do you draw the line? Will government enforce morality by plucking out the eye that has committed lust?

I realize you didn’t say that government should enforce morality, you implied that they should not ignore morality. The power of government is authorized use of force. Force at the point of a gun.


32 posted on 08/24/2011 5:27:54 AM PDT by listenhillary (Look your representatives in the eye and ask if they intend to pay off the debt. They will look away)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
Almost Everything We're Taught Is Wrong

I've taught myself most of this already... Does that mean I was wrong?

33 posted on 08/24/2011 5:28:04 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the sheltered will never know.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: listenhillary; Wpin

Paraphrased:
“God defines morality...and when the people choose to ignore it, and that includes their government...bad things happen.”
“when Islam takes over our government, should government then enforce morality?”

The conclusion you reached has nothing to do with his statement.

Islam is not a religion of the true God of the Bible to which the poster was referring. Islam is the worship of a pagan moon god, ie, a demon, and is a religion made up by a man under demonic influence in order to justify his sinful desires.

Referring to Islam to refute “God defines morality” is simply a non-sequitur.


34 posted on 08/24/2011 5:33:56 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: listenhillary

Thus the limitations the founders put in the Constitution.

If the government would not enforce “anti-morality”, which it is doing now, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.


35 posted on 08/24/2011 5:35:26 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: conejo99
Another way to look at child labor is to view it as servitude.

And what is school? For many of us it was a dozen years of confinement against our wills. Now it's worse.

ML/NJ

36 posted on 08/24/2011 5:43:46 AM PDT by ml/nj
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

I wonder if the book states the reality that if nations which have built economies strong enough to end child labor and the other practices mentioned, that those nations can return to that economic state by flooding itself with cheap labor from such nations, and by sending vast amounts of work to cheap labor nations.

When wealthy nations pursue the world’s cheapest labor, they will eventually recreate the economic conditions described in their own nations, once they can no longer generate or borrow enough surplus to support their unemployed (the unemployed should really include those of working age on welfare).


37 posted on 08/24/2011 5:44:29 AM PDT by Will88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Years ago the government passed laws to prevent children (other than family members working in a family business) less than 17 years old from working.

The first casualty was paper routes, then grocery store sacker/stackers, then all other jobs we used to work as kids.

Next came our lazy generation who normally was never exposed to work until after they graduated from high school or college. Worse yet, college graduates expected to start in the middle, not at the bottom.

In the interim, the kids sat around playing video games and other forms of entertainment and when presented with their first job, had no idea what-so-ever what the statement “8 hours work for 8 hours pay” or the phrase “work ethic.”


38 posted on 08/24/2011 6:02:06 AM PDT by DH ( Rick Perry 2012...Be proud to be an American once again!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Louis Foxwell

“If the blackmailer has any marketing skills he will charge according to the target’s ability to pay. “

The target’s willingness to pay would weigh fairly heavily.

From a purely economic standpoint, it might be better to just kill the blackmailer.


39 posted on 08/24/2011 6:15:07 AM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Equating child labor (or learning to work) and scalping with extortion and selling human tissue is just wrong. At some point with economics morality has to come into play and there’s the difference.


40 posted on 08/24/2011 6:16:15 AM PDT by Desdemona ( If trusting the men in the clergy was a requirement for Faith, there would be no one in the pews.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BobL
Hmmm, so if we allow bullying (or really teasing) in grade school, perhaps less kids will grow up gay. It’s probably not a bad trade - some stress during the early years, in exchange for a chance at a happy, normal life.

Despite the MSM narrative, bullying is not directed uniquely at gay kids. Victims of bullies suffer lifelong consequences--low self-esteem, inability to trust others, inability to form relationships, difficulty in establishing a career, etc. Bullying causes victims to commit suicide, in some cases. Bullying isn't tolerated in the adult world; there is no reason whatsoever to turn a blind eye to it because it's occurring among children.

41 posted on 08/24/2011 6:18:02 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

So the argument as to whether or not something is bad hinges upon what may possibly replace it? So if a study showed that when police cracked down on physical assaults there was then a rise in murder we should then say “well getting beat up is not so bad, at least they didn’t kill me” ? BS.


42 posted on 08/24/2011 6:27:22 AM PDT by TheBigIf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TheBigIf

Maybe they could find more countries to study?

“In fact, studies show that in at least one country where child labor was suddenly banned, prostitution increased.”


43 posted on 08/24/2011 6:33:35 AM PDT by listenhillary (Look your representatives in the eye and ask if they intend to pay off the debt. They will look away)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: MrB

Take a stab at post #32.


44 posted on 08/24/2011 6:35:27 AM PDT by listenhillary (Look your representatives in the eye and ask if they intend to pay off the debt. They will look away)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: red tie

Covering up a crime is illegal. Stossel was referring to gossip, which is not illegal.


45 posted on 08/24/2011 6:39:18 AM PDT by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: listenhillary

I kinda did already, but I’ll expound on it a bit.

The government has gotten into enforcing morality, of a sort, by enforcing an “anti-morality”, or more specifically, enforcing a hostility and rejection of the “mere” Christian value system that the society was based on, and is/was successful because of it.

If we could actually get them to STOP enforcing “morality”,
then we’d all be better off because the natural superiority of the Christian value system, with respect to living in the real world with real humans, would re-assert itself.


46 posted on 08/24/2011 6:41:45 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Lonesome in Massachussets; holdonnow; TheWriterTX
I'm inspired by your post.

People who teach themselves don't get the respect they are due, IMHO Teach people who are inclined to learn how to learn and they can take care of their educations quite well!

My Mother grew up in rural Tennessee and graduated high school there. Then she bought a paperbook that listed a lot of the great, classic books of all time by categories.

As she read a book, she checked it off and went to the next book that captured her interest.

The book is in tatters now with many titles checked off.

She is one of the smartest, most educated people I know and has been an inspiration to me and to my sibs. We all love reading. My sister is a librarian; my brother teaches college level IT. Me, I just read tons - one of the reasons I'm constantly on FR and also try to read books recommended by the very learned Great One, Mark Levin!

47 posted on 08/24/2011 6:43:43 AM PDT by hummingbird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Lonesome in Massachussets; holdonnow; TheWriterTX
I'm inspired by your post.

People who teach themselves don't get the respect they are due, IMHO Teach people who are inclined to learn how to learn and they can take care of their educations quite well!

My Mother grew up in rural Tennessee and graduated high school there. Then she bought a paperbook that listed a lot of the great, classic books of all time by categories.

As she read a book, she checked it off and went to the next book that captured her interest.

The book is in tatters now with many titles checked off.

She is one of the smartest, most educated people I know and has been an inspiration to me and to my sibs. We all love reading. My sister is a librarian; my brother teaches college level IT. Me, I just read tons - one of the reasons I'm constantly on FR and also try to read books recommended by the very learned Great One, Mark Levin!

48 posted on 08/24/2011 6:43:57 AM PDT by hummingbird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: LearsFool
Economics - even sound economics - is not what makes for a good society.

Ignoring economics, especially sound economics, isures the downfall of any society.

49 posted on 08/24/2011 6:48:01 AM PDT by CMAC51
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Vaquero

Terrific!

You educated your son very well!


50 posted on 08/24/2011 6:48:30 AM PDT by hummingbird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-108 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson