Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

California’s ‘Amazon Tax’ Already Proving a Bust
Big Government.com ^ | Capitol Confidential

Posted on 08/24/2011 12:42:32 PM PDT by americanophile

California recently instituted as part of its budget solution an “Amazon Tax” aimed at forcing out-of-state, online retailers with no physical presence in the Golden State to collect and remit sales tax in respect of goods sold to Californians where the retailer in question advertises, or maintains an “affiliate” referral relationship, with websites based within state lines.

Prior to passage of the bill obligating collection and remittance in such circumstances, prominent online retailers including Amazon.com and Overstock.com had threatened to terminate relationships with affiliates, if the legislation became law. Now that it has, and affiliate relationships are being severed, something critics of the legislation say was entirely foreseeable is occurring: Online businesses and entrepreneurs are leaving the state, thus risking an actual reduction, as opposed to marginal increase, in California’s tax revenue.

Last month, news broke of one California-based online entrepreneur who had decided to ditch California and move to Nevada in the aftermath of Gov. Jerry Brown signing the law. ”I always figured that in California, home to Silicon Valley and a million tech startups, they’d never pass a law like this,” said Nick Loper, who formerly operated ShoesRUs and has now opened a new venture, ShoeSniper.

Per the piece in which Loper is quoted, more than 70 affiliates had at that stage already left California, according to online businesses.

(Excerpt) Read more at biggovernment.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; Government; US: California
KEYWORDS: amazontax; ammunition; economy; fail; food; generators; gold; internet; taxes
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-71 next last
Driving us out in the unending quest for revenue. California is doomed.
1 posted on 08/24/2011 12:42:34 PM PDT by americanophile
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: americanophile

Democrats are the Masters of Static Analysis.
They always assume that you are just going to sit there and take it.

That’s why they aspire to Global Government, so that one day they’ll be nowhere to run to, no place to hide.


2 posted on 08/24/2011 12:46:42 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye McFrog

Assuming we don’t find a way off the planet by then. That would rock their little red wagon.


3 posted on 08/24/2011 12:49:16 PM PDT by coydog (Time to feed the pigs!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

The NEW ballad of Jed Clampett
Come and listen to a story ‘bout a man named Jed
Poor oil entrepreneur barely kept his family fed
Then one day he was working for some food,
And up through the town come a bumbling clown
(Brown that is, take a toke, what a joke)

Well the first thing you know old Jed’s taxes are to much to bear,
Kin folk said Jed move away from there!
Said California is no place for you to be
So they loaded up the truck and they moved from Beverly
(go’n back to the Hills they are, fish’n holes, country and western stars)

Well now it’s time to say goodbye to Jed and all his kin
They would like to thank you folks for kindly dropping in
You’re all invited back again to their new locality
To have a heaping helping of their hospitality
(Redneck Hillbillies, is what the press call ‘em now,
Clingers of bibles and guns and to Obama no bow!
Nice folks Y’all come back now, ya hear?)


4 posted on 08/24/2011 12:49:51 PM PDT by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye McFrog

Terrifying thought, isn’t it?


5 posted on 08/24/2011 12:53:11 PM PDT by americanophile ("this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives" - Ataturk)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: americanophile
”I always figured that in California, home to Silicon Valley and a million tech startups, they’d never pass a law like this,” said Nick Loper, who formerly operated ShoesRUs

You've lived in California how long and believed that?!

6 posted on 08/24/2011 12:54:12 PM PDT by Snickering Hound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye McFrog
The exact theme of Atlas Shrugged.
7 posted on 08/24/2011 12:56:27 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

Our moronic senator, Little Dickie Durbin, is pushing for this for every state. They passed this same ‘Amazon law’ in Illinois where we have lost the most jobs of any state in the nation.

Good luck to the rest of you.


8 posted on 08/24/2011 12:57:21 PM PDT by arkady_renko
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

“California is doomed....”

::::::::::::

In reality, Caifornia is DONE! The voting welfare set has seen to that.


9 posted on 08/24/2011 12:58:10 PM PDT by EagleUSA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: americanophile
”I always figured that in California, home to Silicon Valley and a million tech startups, they’d never pass a law like this,” said Nick Loper, who formerly operated ShoesRUs...

uh, has Mr. Loper been paying attention? This law appears the normal MO for California.

10 posted on 08/24/2011 12:58:10 PM PDT by Troublemaker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Snickering Hound

People seem always to believe their own freedom will be somehow guarded and guaranteed by others of good will and common sense. There’s no concept of what liberty means anymore, or the vigilance it takes from every citizen to maintain a free republic.


11 posted on 08/24/2011 12:58:10 PM PDT by americanophile ("this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives" - Ataturk)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

Libs hate profits. California loves libs. California hates capitalism.


12 posted on 08/24/2011 12:59:15 PM PDT by Grunthor (In order; Palin, Perry, None of the rest matter 'til the general)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye McFrog

This is why leftists insist that everything be done at a federal level, so no one can “escape” them and the failure of their ideas can’t be exposed so vividly.


13 posted on 08/24/2011 12:59:48 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: fortheDeclaration

my thots 2...


14 posted on 08/24/2011 12:59:58 PM PDT by jonno (Having an opinion is not the same as having the answer...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

This is happening at the national level too. Businesses are leaving the US, or expanding operations overseas instead of here, because of poor tax policy.


15 posted on 08/24/2011 1:01:04 PM PDT by mlocher (Is it time to cash in before I am taxed out?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye McFrog
Excellent post. If you don't mind I may crib your “masters of static analysis” explanation for Democrats, at times.

It sort of makes sense of why they pass some of the policies that they do, in a clear way that I'm not sure I've heard before.

Probably also explain why they only trust the Fed gov, not state.

And why they would try to discredit Perry and TX, by saying they “stole” the jobs of other states.

16 posted on 08/24/2011 1:01:29 PM PDT by trickamsterdam (District: Red-light...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye McFrog
Leftwingtards also imagine that if the ocean level rises (due to AGW, atom bombs, sinking shorelines) people will stand there with their mouths open and drown.

This is a variation on the phenomenon called "magic thinking". People who engage in it should be prohibited from serving in public office or voting.

17 posted on 08/24/2011 1:02:18 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

The inevitable consequences of State Socialism - readily apparent to anyone with even a nodding acquaintance with history.

Such knowledge is, of course, not expected in Calfornia, a state which is hell bent on self-destruction and is already pulling into the station.


18 posted on 08/24/2011 1:03:59 PM PDT by Jack Hammer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

revenue will decrease because existing companies will cut back or leave the state.


19 posted on 08/24/2011 1:04:01 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mlocher
Democrats believe industries leave the United States taking all the good jobs with them.

Conservatives put their faith in mechanization, automation, computerization and robotics to eliminate such jobs completely ~ starting with middle-management!

20 posted on 08/24/2011 1:04:35 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: americanophile
I haven't made an online purchase for shipment to CA since the law was signed. The only purchase I did make was shipped to my home in Idaho. I picked it up last week while making a visit home for my son's wedding. While Borders was a going concern, I purchased lots of books from their stores in San Diego. Of course, that was done with a 10% Borders Plus discount plus coupon discounts of 25% to 50% which made them competitive with Amazon for an in-store pickup.

Barnes and Noble membership has provided a 20% discount since I joined in May 2002. My recent notification for renewal will change that discount to 10% upon my renewal. The annual fee is $25. I have to spend $250 in the store to break even. Sorry. I won't be renewing after 9 years. I simply won't be buying enough to make it a paying proposition.

21 posted on 08/24/2011 1:05:34 PM PDT by Myrddin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: trickamsterdam

Texas tried to collect taxes on out of state Amazon purchases going through Texas distribution centers.

Guess who’s town no longer has a distribution warehouse because of that?


22 posted on 08/24/2011 1:06:20 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
It pays to be the part of the working population that knows how to design, build and maintain the automation.
23 posted on 08/24/2011 1:08:59 PM PDT by Myrddin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

Many - on both sides - do not realize there is a natural human limit to taxation. Raise taxes beyond a certain percentage of personal/corporate/regional/state/national GDP and people will, with little thought, change their behavior to drive that percentage back down. Just happens.


24 posted on 08/24/2011 1:10:22 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ctdonath2

Art Laffer, is that you?


25 posted on 08/24/2011 1:12:27 PM PDT by americanophile ("this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives" - Ataturk)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

This can not be true. The dems tell us that taxation in no way effects behaviour......


26 posted on 08/24/2011 1:12:38 PM PDT by CSM (Keeper of the "Dave Ramsey Fan" ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

democrats are destroying the californicate.


27 posted on 08/24/2011 1:14:41 PM PDT by ken21 (ruling class dem + rino progressives -- destroying america for 150 years.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye McFrog
Democrats are the Masters of Static Analysis. They always assume that you are just going to sit there and take it.

That’s why they aspire to Global Government, so that one day they’ll be nowhere to run to, no place to hide.

Good post! Succinct yet profound.

28 posted on 08/24/2011 1:15:00 PM PDT by Aria ( "If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: GeronL
revenue will decrease because existing companies will cut back or leave the state.

Beyond that, don't forget the many thousands more small, part-time Amazon affiliates who will no longer be paying state income taxes on their affiliate income which has now vanished.

Great move, Sacramento! </sarcasm>

29 posted on 08/24/2011 1:17:08 PM PDT by Bob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Bob

They just have their checks sent to friend in another state and forwarded to them.


30 posted on 08/24/2011 1:18:56 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Myrddin
Way, way back I ordered a steel/aluminum cage with strong industrial wheels from a custom container dealer ~ I worked up a performance standard and the company delivered 24 copies of a final product.

Management agreed to put it to work containing sacks of air mail being dispatched from DC post office to the three main airports in the area ~ roll on ~ roll off ~ and already separated to dispatch in the first handling at DC.

We ran this as an experiment for a month.

We were able to eliminate 24 jobs at the AMFs (air mail facilities) ~ (the employees went elsewhere since volume growth meant we needed an ever increasing amount of manpower).

Then I went in the Army. When I came back the post office had purchased THOUSANDS of these devices.

Over the years USPS ended up with HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS.

Various people had made various modifications and today's device is about a foot taller than the original, but conceptually they all serve to just move mail ~ in sacks, bags, trays, and so forth of whatever manufacture or shape.

Someday the employees will get wise to what happened and start disabling the APCs and Palletainers and ERMCs ~ just dump 'em over the back dock and spring 'em.

I figure it works backwards. Get rid of a container ~ hire a human!

That's how mechanization all by itself works. That other stuff kicks the labor component upstairs and displaces the bosses.

31 posted on 08/24/2011 1:20:23 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

California’s “Kill The Golden Goose” policy lays an egg.


32 posted on 08/24/2011 1:26:31 PM PDT by pogo101
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: arkady_renko
...in Illinois where we have lost the most jobs of any state in the nation.

Did you see the post today or yesterday that charted the start of the
job loss in IL?

The peak of employment immediately flat-lined after that massive
[state] tax increase, then started declining very shortly (I'm
guessing a handful of weeks) afterward.

33 posted on 08/24/2011 1:34:34 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Bob
... don't forget the many thousands more small, part-time Amazon affiliates who will no longer be paying state income taxes on their affiliate income which has now vanished.

That describes me.

34 posted on 08/24/2011 1:36:58 PM PDT by poindexters brother
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: arkady_renko
Man, I really feel badly for people in Illinois.

Auto industry, music industry.........general economy - down.

I call for monthly medications I need and almost all are out of state.

Reps. are very cheerful and talkative and I always ask what part of the country they live and how do they it, etc. Just chit chat while my order is processed

One lady in Illinois just sighs and hopes things get better. They are hopeful but she clearly is depressed about job conditions in Illinois and her family is considering taking up roots and moving out of state. I think she is a native of Illinois, too. They don't want to move but it might come to that whether they want to or not. It angers me that political bullies can have such a wide effect over people's lives. What other states and industries will be next? Best wishes, citizens of Illinois.

35 posted on 08/24/2011 1:37:42 PM PDT by hummingbird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: americanophile
If 51% of the electorate pay no Federal taxes, I want equal protection and I don't want to pay taxes either. Can any lawyer help me? (Are there any non-Liberal lawyers left in the business?)
36 posted on 08/24/2011 1:41:36 PM PDT by I am Richard Brandon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AppyPappy
They just have their checks sent to friend in another state and forwarded to them.

Have you tried that? If it's possible to do that, Amazon would then be reporting the affiliate income to the state where the person receiving the check lives. Any tax liabilities involved would need to be arranged between the two parties.

Bottom line -- California loses out on the state income tax that the affiliate would have paid.

37 posted on 08/24/2011 1:50:09 PM PDT by Bob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

People, belay that, governments never learn! I guess that’s because they have so many useful idiots that depend on them. Here’s some advice: GET THE F**K off the plantation!


38 posted on 08/24/2011 1:50:31 PM PDT by New Jersey Realist (Congress doesn't care a damn about "we the people")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bob

Nope. Al Smith has his check sent to Al Smith at his brother Phil’s house. Phil forwards the check to Al.


39 posted on 08/24/2011 1:53:40 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Bob

And if I have done it, I wouldn’t state it publicly.


40 posted on 08/24/2011 1:54:26 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

If you tax them they will leave.


41 posted on 08/24/2011 1:58:08 PM PDT by Bubba_Leroy (The Obamanation Continues)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
Conservatives put their faith in mechanization, automation, computerization and robotics to eliminate such jobs completely ~ starting with middle-management!

If output can be achieved with fewer people, the people whose jobs are eliminated can (must) find something else to do to create value. When this is done, we are ALL much richer (same number of people working - more goods and services to go around.) Mechanization, automation, computerization and robits is why we don't all work the fields all day to provide ourselves enough food to stay alive. A few people can provide food while others perform a million different functions to serve their fellow man.

42 posted on 08/24/2011 2:07:14 PM PDT by Onelifetogive (I tweet, too... @Onelifetogive)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Bob

“”Bottom line — California loses out on the state income tax that the affiliate would have paid.””

There are still a few states with no sales taxes....


43 posted on 08/24/2011 2:25:59 PM PDT by tired&retired
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye McFrog
Democrats are the Masters of Static Analysis.

Exactly!

As a small business owner who has to make decisions daily, some of which are far-reaching, I MUST look at situations and ask: What is the best scenario? What is the worst scenario?

I contend that almost all business decisions are risk/reward.

I almost never hear our politicians (especially here in California!) discuss possible "unintended consequences," and it is that that always kills us.

In my business, if I were to always put a positive spin on everything, I would soon be out of business ...because there are REAL consequences to my decisions, and these most certainly include the unintended consequences.

In a practical sense, we need a lot more pragmatic business owners running for office and a whole lot fewer lawyers. Ah, but I digress...

44 posted on 08/24/2011 2:31:25 PM PDT by The Citizen Soldier (I will always remember exactly where I was when Obama made his NCAA picks.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

Universal truths are universal truths, regardless of whose name gets affixed.
Yeah, I forgot about Laffer.

Looking up “Laffer curve debunked” it’s obvious that naysayers are unaware that we’re on the upper side of the curve, and it’s obvious that if taxes are cut enough then federal tax revenue will, of course, decrease.


45 posted on 08/24/2011 2:33:51 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: ctdonath2

Right!


46 posted on 08/24/2011 2:36:35 PM PDT by americanophile ("this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives" - Ataturk)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
That mug your drink your coffee from, was the clay dug by hand, the mug throw on a homemade potters wheel fired in a wood burning kiln and bought by you from the artist's own hands?

It not then you have robbed all those people of jobs.

Of course, that would mean that not many people would have mugs. And probably there would be no coffee. And there would be no Internet. No computers. No electricity. No cars. No steel plows.

In fact, we will have to get rid of plows all together since with them one man and a team of horses can do the work of ten men and so he is depriving those nine men of jobs.

Wagons will have to go too. They can carry more then one man can and so you are putting bearers out of work.

So I guess we will go back to living in huts, digging little holes with pointed sticks to plant seeds and grind our grain on two flat rocks BUT EVERBODY WILL HAVE A JOB.

Sounds like paradise doesn't it?

47 posted on 08/24/2011 2:59:01 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Can we ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Easily. All nonsense questions are unanswerable.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
Congrats on a widely adopted idea. I implemented a TCP/IP Ethernet network over 80 machines in my department at PacBell. That provided the infrastructure to move lots of data. Those machines were doing 30 specialized data extracts to 9-track tape on each machine, each month. Lots of work for the non-management tape hangers. Lots of machines crashed because the audit tape was unloaded instead of the data tape. A unified extract that covered the needs of all 30 users was created. The extract was shipped via TCP/IP to a single point IBM mainframe disk. A massive reduction in labor and system outages and machine resources. The 9-track tapes were replaced with 8mm during the 1989 strike. At that point ONE manager could replace the audit tape each morning. No more non-management folks in the computer room. Another big labor savings.

I had a vendor that made a special RS232 to multi-point printer protocol translator. It was slow and unreliable. I build a small C program that did the job from inside the UNIX machine. Bye bye vendor. The C program logged the data to the hard disk in the machine, so we could "replay" all the traffic if necessary. A capability the dedicated device could never do.

Lots of other big money savers inside the PacBell machine room. Suffice to say, my group returned a savings of $6 for every $1 expended on our salaries.

48 posted on 08/24/2011 3:04:11 PM PDT by Myrddin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: americanophile; All

NEWSFLASH: CALIFORNIA IS A BUST.


49 posted on 08/24/2011 3:21:58 PM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (TeaNami)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: I am Richard Brandon
It's a lie that there are people who pay no taxes.

Two things are certain ~ DEATH and TAXES.

You are stuck.

50 posted on 08/24/2011 3:25:33 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-71 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson