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Reagan: The Biggest RINO (He signed into law 11 different tax increases as President)
Frum Forum ^ | 08/24/2011 | Paul Talley

Posted on 08/24/2011 6:28:40 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

reagan1 Reagan: The Biggest RINO

What would the Club for Growth say about Ronald Reagan? We know what they think about Rick Perry since they have produced new Presidential White Papers on him. Their opinion: eh, not bad, but not great.

Now, keep in mind, the Club for Growth is hard to please. We are talking about Rick Perry, the governor of Texas. That is Texas, arguably one of the most conservative and freest of the market states in the country. The very place that George W. Bush helped to create a pro-business atmosphere. All he had to do was clock in and clock out and he gets an A, right?

What I find fascinating when I read the Club for Growth White Papers is that generally only politicians who aren’t governors get great scores. The Club for Growth loves Michele Bachmann. That’s mainly because she has the freedom to toe the ideological line. She has never been forced to balance a budget in a politically diverse environment. So if you are a governor, and especially a governor from a non-ideologically pure state, then prepare to get your hat handed to you by the Club for Growth.

With that being said, I thought it would be interested to imagine the White Papers for conservative icon Ronald Reagan. It might go as follows:

While Ronald Reagan showed promised early on in his presidency by passing one of the largest tax decreases in history, he spent the rest of his presidency signing into law 11 different tax increases. These tax hikes were enacted with the goal of paying for government-run health insurance, such as Medicare. While the eleven tax hikes did not fully make up for that initial tax cut, we find Reagan’s vulnerability to compromise somewhat alarming. True conservatives never increase taxes, much less 11 times.

In Reagan’s eight years, the United States also went from being the world’s largest international creditor to being the world’s largest debtor. In 1981, the deficit was $74 billion and the national debt was $930 billion. Within two years (because of the 1981 tax cut), the deficit was $208 billion. By the end of Reagan’s presidency, the Gipper had allowed the national debt to spiral to $2.6 trillion. We at the Club for Growth find Reagan’s utter disregard for our nation’s finances troubling. What America needs is someone who reduces government, not increases it.

Again, while Reagan entered office with the kind of government-reducing rhetoric that the Club for Growth admires, he largely failed to follow through on his commitments. We find Reagan’s creation of the Department of Veteran Affairs troublesome. Indeed, Reagan ended his presidency with 60,000 more federal employees in the workforce. In 1983, Reagan agreed to $165 billion in government bailout money for the unconstitutional Social Security. Now is the not the time when the United States should bail out its government run programs. If Reagan’s goal was to reduce government, then he utterly failed. America needs somebody who will stick it to Washington, not a government-loving RINO like Ronald Reagan.

Of course, we are not even going to go into Reagan’s non budget-related indiscretions, such as his granting amnesty to illegal immigrants, his states’ rights crippling support of a federal minimum drinking age, and his 1981 “voluntary” export restraint on Japanese cars (the auto industry doesn’t need more bailouts). And then there is his breath-taking support of the Brady Bill, published on the pages of the ghastly New York Times. There is enough here alone to suggest that America would be better off without Reagan’s big government policies.

We think that Dick Cheney is wrong when when he stated that Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter. America would be better off served by somebody like Michele Bachmann. She is ideologically pure.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: feminist; hollywood; progressive; rino; ronaldreagan; socialist

1 posted on 08/24/2011 6:28:49 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Sounds like someone needs a lesson in gross versus net.

Were taxes lower or higher after his term in office from when he first came in?

This is like saying he cut $100 but added in four $1 increases and accusing him of a spender.


2 posted on 08/24/2011 6:30:45 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: mnehring

What about signing one of the biggest amnesty bills in modern history?


3 posted on 08/24/2011 6:32:57 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: SeekAndFind
This pointless drivel is an illustration of the intersection of ignorance with stupidity.
4 posted on 08/24/2011 6:34:07 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: mnehring

Got taken by the rats...3 dollars in cuts for every dollar of tax increases...hell Reagan started a twenty year boom....and rebuilt the military and beat the Russians not to bad for an old man..did more work in one day than Obama has done in 2.5 years..


5 posted on 08/24/2011 6:36:29 PM PDT by Hojczyk
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To: SeekAndFind

This is journalism?? Uh...no...it’s crap. The tax decrease this cretin barely mentions dropped the tax rate from 70 to 28 per cent. Compare that to the incidental taxes he increased and he still comes off as a major tax cutter.


6 posted on 08/24/2011 6:38:22 PM PDT by econjack (Some people are dumber than soup.)
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To: SeekAndFind

No matter how you try to sully Reagan, whichever RINO you try to put a ribbon on still smells like a pig.


7 posted on 08/24/2011 6:38:35 PM PDT by Ingtar (Together we go broke (from a Pookie18 post))
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To: SeekAndFind

Here’s a good rule of thumb.

If you’ve got to deconstruct Reagan to make your guy look good, find another guy.


8 posted on 08/24/2011 6:38:43 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (McCain 5 yrs Left/1 yr right "BAD!" - Republicans 3 yrs Right 1 year Left to elect RINOs. "Good?")
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To: SeekAndFind

bump.


9 posted on 08/24/2011 6:39:26 PM PDT by ken21 (ruling class dem + rino progressives -- destroying america for 150 years.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Why in the world would anyone post anything from the Frum Forum?
10 posted on 08/24/2011 6:39:46 PM PDT by bwc2221
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To: SeekAndFind

[ (He signed into law 11 different tax increases as President) ]

Of course Reagan had a totally democrat Congresses to deal with as well..
Its a wonder he did what he did.. a miracle really..

The democrats have always been for SPENDING more and more taxpayer bucks..
Its not a new thing.. what happened to the republican party was democrats becoming republicans..

You can remove the democrat form the party but its almost impossible to remove the democrat from the democrat..
Even Reagan was an EX-democrat.. and yes had a little of the spending disease in him..

EX-democrats must be watched they have a virulent disease in them..
They WANT a democracy INSTEAD of a REPUBLIC..
I think Bush(all three of them) were infected.. for sure Romney is.. and probably Perry..


11 posted on 08/24/2011 6:40:08 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: Hojczyk

Changebthat to one day vs Obama’s whole life and I’m on board.


12 posted on 08/24/2011 6:40:08 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (McCain 5 yrs Left/1 yr right "BAD!" - Republicans 3 yrs Right 1 year Left to elect RINOs. "Good?")
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To: bwc2221

RE: Why in the world would anyone post anything from the Frum Forum?

For discussion purposes my friend, as well as for thoughtful and knowledgeable conservatives to rebut them.


13 posted on 08/24/2011 6:42:27 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: DoughtyOne
Here’s a good rule of thumb. If you’ve got to deconstruct Reagan to make your guy look good, find another guy.

Yep.

14 posted on 08/24/2011 6:44:17 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (At best, all the Republicans are willing to give the Federal Behemoth is a slight haircut.)
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To: DoughtyOne

“Here’s a good rule of thumb.

If you’ve got to deconstruct Reagan to make your guy look good, find another guy.”

____________________________________________________

Absolutely—couldn’t agree more.

I couldn’t get through that article. I was a green 18 year-old that first election and I voted for Ronald Reagan because my dad told me to, then I rebelled and voted against him in the next election.

But then I grew up, and came to appreciate him.


15 posted on 08/24/2011 6:47:50 PM PDT by proud American in Canada (To paraphrase Sarah Palin: "I love when the liberals get all wee-wee'd up.")
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To: SeekAndFind

Frum?? Even RATS know he’s an idiot.


16 posted on 08/24/2011 6:48:28 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: mnehring

“Were taxes lower or higher after his term in office from when he first came in?”

The 1986 :Tax Simplification Act” was the bigest tax increase in our history!!!

When he was Governor of California he was one of the biggest tax increasers in history.

Durring his term he doubled taxes and trippled the number of State emoloyees.

The only way he ballanced the budget in his last year was instituting witholding taxes on payroll and taking 2 years taxes on a one time basis in one year.

Look at what he did, not what he spewed out of his mouth!


17 posted on 08/24/2011 6:48:55 PM PDT by dalereed (uity wise!)
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To: All

“came to appreciate him”—both Ronald Reagan ... and my Dad! :)


18 posted on 08/24/2011 6:49:13 PM PDT by proud American in Canada (To paraphrase Sarah Palin: "I love when the liberals get all wee-wee'd up.")
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To: SeekAndFind

Had Reagan’s amnesty worked as intended, it would have meant limited numbers and secure borders.

20 or 30 million illegals later, he’d probably kick his own ass for it.


19 posted on 08/24/2011 6:51:03 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin)
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To: DoughtyOne
Here’s a good rule of thumb. If you’ve got to deconstruct Reagan to make your guy look good, find another guy.

Amen!!! Anyone calling Reagan a RINO has NO clue. None whatsoever. There must be another agenda at play.
20 posted on 08/24/2011 6:51:21 PM PDT by rockvillem
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To: SeekAndFind

We could do a LOT worse than this pitch in 2012:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loBe0WXtts8


21 posted on 08/24/2011 6:53:52 PM PDT by rockvillem
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To: SeekAndFind
Our country is being systematically destroyed. Our economy is being sabotaged by the Obama Administration. Government spending is at irresponsible levels that are unsustainable.

We should focus on these problems. We should not waste time on stupid articles that ignore every achievement of President Reagan and focus on his unsuccessful compromises.

22 posted on 08/24/2011 6:53:55 PM PDT by detective
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To: SeekAndFind
What about signing one of the biggest amnesty bills in modern history?

He did that with Tip O'Neils' promise of congress securing the boarders.

Remember that?

Didn't happen!

23 posted on 08/24/2011 6:57:45 PM PDT by MountainDad (Support your local Militia)
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To: SeekAndFind
Why are you posting this douche bag’s brain droppings? As a matter of fact, Why would you even click on his blog? I think the Frum’s Fag Forum should be off limits to any viable form of Conservative thought.

Just Sayin’

24 posted on 08/24/2011 6:58:21 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: mnehring

The other thing that they don’t want to talk about, he exploded the economy.

On a relative basis his deficit was basically flat trending down.

We had the cold war that we were fighting and Reagan won.

1981-1989 Reagan
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/downchart_gs.php?year=1900_2016&view=1&expand=&units=p&log=linear&fy=fy12&chart=G0-fed&bar=0&stack=1&size=1600_748&title=&state=US&color=c&local=s&show=

THEY ARE JEALOUS!


25 posted on 08/24/2011 6:59:45 PM PDT by dila813
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To: SeekAndFind

I got your thoughtful and knowledgable discussion right here: Reagan was a giant among conservatives. Frum is just a pussy.


26 posted on 08/24/2011 7:06:43 PM PDT by tumblindice
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To: Jim from C-Town

RE: hy are you posting this douche bag’s brain droppings? As a matter of fact, Why would you even click on his blog?

Because they were linked by that conservative site : HOTAIR.

True conservatives would not be afraid to refute douchebags.


27 posted on 08/24/2011 7:07:15 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: cripplecreek

RE: 20 or 30 million illegals later, he’d probably kick his own ass for it.

OK, if we can overlook a mistake the great Ronald Reagan made in his presidency, can we overlook mistakes made by say, Rick Perry in his 10 year term as Texas governor ( e.g. Gardasil)?

After all Rick Perry sorta kicked his own ass for that mistake he made.


28 posted on 08/24/2011 7:10:38 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: SeekAndFind

Well his mistakes have continued till within the past year.


29 posted on 08/24/2011 7:13:49 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin)
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To: hinckley buzzard

You, sir, have nailed it.


30 posted on 08/24/2011 7:15:34 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: SeekAndFind

He didn’t raise income tax RATES, but did plug some loopholes and protect Medicare.


31 posted on 08/24/2011 7:19:17 PM PDT by expatpat
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To: SeekAndFind
It's important to note that Reagan's tax increases did not wipe out the effects of that initial tax cut. But they did eat up about half of it.

In other words, Reagan was a net tax cutter.

32 posted on 08/24/2011 7:22:59 PM PDT by iowamark
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To: MountainDad
He did that with Tip O'Neils' promise of congress securing the boarders. Remember that? Didn't happen!

Yeppirs!! Reagan held up his end of the bargain, the Dem Congress (as usual) DIDN'T hold up theirs!!!

33 posted on 08/24/2011 7:37:46 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Go green - recycle Congress in 2012!!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Ronnie was a 75% conservative but I’ll take that over a ‘rat any day.


34 posted on 08/24/2011 7:45:00 PM PDT by Chi-townChief
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To: SeekAndFind

I’m not afraid of them, I just like to avoid them at all cost. Life is too short and too difficult already.


35 posted on 08/24/2011 8:29:15 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Chi-townChief

Ronnie was a 75% conservative but I’ll take that over a ‘rat any day.

________________________________

Basically my argument for being glad Perry entered the race after he announced. I got called all kinds of names and had spittle dripping through my screen.

I don’t think Perry is perfect by a long shot but no politician is. His record on regulations, spending, taxes, crime, and his overall record is not too bad. I don’t trust him on immigration and the female vaccine thing creeps me out.

I think he would wreck Obama in the general election. At this point, the person who is mostly conservative that will totally destroy this administration is hard to be upset about. I will admit though..... if Palin enters the race she has me at hello.

I think Palin can make up some ground but I fear if she wins the nomination the left will put up a 3rd party candidate the media will build up. I worry that this would give us four more years of nightmare because all they would have to do based on prior elections is shave off a few points in key states for the 3rd party guy. I will support Palin but Perry is an acceptable candidate for me right now.

Anyone seen my flame suit?


36 posted on 08/24/2011 8:40:23 PM PDT by volunbeer (Keep the dope, we'll make the change in 2012!)
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To: bwc2221

To: SeekAndFind
Why in the world would anyone post anything from the Frum Forum?
posted by bwc2221

Seekie is a Moby poster.
His gig is relentlessly posting constant lefty talking point, contrarian items then claiming he’s just provoking discussion.
Often he can’t help himself and chimes in agreeing with the left leaning perspective of the article.
Note the telltale condescending, challenge to “true conservatives” not being afraid to engage the propaganda.


37 posted on 08/24/2011 9:04:41 PM PDT by Carl LaFong (Experts say experts should be ignored.)
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To: ozzymandus

This was written by a guy named Paul Talley, not by Frum. It’s just on Frum’s site. No idea how big a loser Paul Talley is.


38 posted on 08/24/2011 9:07:07 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: SeekAndFind
Amazing chutzpah!!!

Ronald Reagan was the visionary that led me out of the wilderness of the Dimwit plantation and into a future controlled by ME NOT GOVERNMENT!

Struggling through teens and twenties and trying to make it after college during Jimmuh Carter's reign... just about sent us to the poor house. Had to come out of the generational stupor of voting Democrat... the plantation my dearly loved grandparents were on and my Dad as well until he saw the light and he saw it early on.

Ronald Reagan, thank you SIR... I would not be a homeowner had you not prevailed, I would not be a business owner had you not prevailed, I would not have been able to have helped my beloved grandparents as they aged and passed on.

Thank you President Reagan, for giving me back the freedom to dream and build and hold onto those precious things that I work for and I earn.

To those who disparage your memory, first I can only pray they fail, second I recognize them for who they are.. destroyers of liberty who seek their own agenda.

39 posted on 08/24/2011 9:25:45 PM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Well keep in context that he also engineered a large arms buildup to defeat the Soviet Union.
But lets not forget that while he made those Tax Increases, the Tax rate still wasn’t anywhere close to what it was when he came in.
Also he was promised repeatedly by Tip O’Neil and the other Democrat leaders they would hold the line on spending and they never did.
Always another side to the story. Was Reagan perfect, no, but he was a Damn site better than most before or since him.


40 posted on 08/24/2011 9:32:20 PM PDT by Captain Peter Blood
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To: SeekAndFind
SeekAndFind what? Irrelevant anti-Reagan bullshit?

Why are you even still a member here?

41 posted on 08/24/2011 10:17:52 PM PDT by lewislynn ( What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in commom? Misinformation)
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To: Hojczyk
Got taken by the rats...3 dollars in cuts for every dollar of tax increases...

I think of that everyime the Republicans make a deal with the Democrats. Not only did they not cut spending as they promised, they went on a spending spree and then blamed the resulting deficit on Reagan. The Democrats are evil liars.

42 posted on 08/24/2011 10:24:20 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (I retain the right to be inconsistent, contradictory and even flat-out wrong!)
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To: MountainDad

Yet another attempt at revisionist history - and, by a FReeper at that! Disgusting!!


43 posted on 08/24/2011 10:32:03 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier currently deployed in the Valley of Death, Afghanistan)
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To: SeekAndFind

Nice try guys — NO SALE. I knew Ronnie. Different time, different circumstances, and NOT the “tax increases” as are being pushed by the Dems and RINO’s.


44 posted on 08/24/2011 10:43:51 PM PDT by patriot preacher
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To: SeekAndFind

Thanks for the article. I got to vote for Mr. Reagan as a youth of 18 (my first vote). As much Reagan worship that is shown here, it is nice to note that as a human, he wasn’t perfect in all aspects. Still love the man, but perfect he was not. Yes I know to take this article with a grain of salt (net tax cuts etc..), but it needs to be allowed to stand to show that even cult heros are not perfect in all aspects.


45 posted on 08/24/2011 11:06:19 PM PDT by LowOiL ("Abomination" sure sounds like "ObamaNation" to me.)
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To: lewislynn

RE: Why are you even still a member here?

Mr. LewisLynn, is there any rule in FR that states that only articles that praise Ronald Reagan are allowed? If so, kindly show it to me...

FR is a Forum about CONSERVATISM, not blind hero worship.

The ideals of Conservatism are bigger than any individual and we ought to hold ANYONE accountable the policies they made are not conservative.

In other words, we should not BLINDLY worship someone as infallible and if mistakes were made, we ought to learn from them and make sure that they are NOT REPEATED.

Eternal Vigilance in the price of freedom.


46 posted on 08/25/2011 6:42:33 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: SeekAndFind

He is an indiot if he thinks Reagan was a RINO.

He was stuck with a democrap congress- who promised him $3 decrease in spending for each dollar increase in taxes.

The spending cuts never happened

The liberals learned from this and that is why they promised Boner $10 in spending cuts for each dollar of tax increase (hell, why not 100?? -they are never going to do the spending cuts)


47 posted on 08/25/2011 6:50:07 AM PDT by Mr. K (CAPSLOCK! -Unleash the fury! [Palin/Bachman 2012- unbeatable ticket])
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To: Carl LaFong

RE: His gig is relentlessly posting constant lefty talking point, contrarian items then claiming he’s just provoking discussion.

Mr. Carl LaFong, I have posted hundreds of articles since my membership here four years ago.

Yes, I post contrary articles to provoke discussion. Isn’t that the purpose of a forum? Should we only post articles that are flattering of the people we like and ignore those that are not?

Secondly, I take issue with your statement that I : “chimes in agreeing with the left leaning perspective of the article”. I challenge you to prove this statement by showing me where I agreed with any left leaning perspective.

Posting what a left leaner said does not mean that you agree with Him does it? or are you unable to even distinguish between the two?


48 posted on 08/25/2011 6:51:36 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: SeekAndFind
Lowering tax rates works, federal revenues exploded under Reagan:

Revenues 1980 = $517.1B

Revenues 1988 = $909.2B

49 posted on 08/25/2011 6:55:07 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: volunbeer

Right now, any of the GOP candidates is far preferable to Barky - anyone talking about sitting this election out is a damn fool.


50 posted on 08/25/2011 10:27:10 AM PDT by Chi-townChief
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