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Crime and the Great Recession: Jobs have fled, lawbreaking hasn’t risen—and criminologists are...
City Journal ^ | Summer 2011 | James Q. Wilson

Posted on 08/26/2011 10:21:59 PM PDT by neverdem

Jobs have fled, lawbreaking hasn’t risen—and criminologists are scratching their heads.

During the seventies and eighties, scarcely any newspaper story about rising crime failed to mention that it was strongly linked to unemployment and poverty. The argument was straightforward: if less legitimate work was available, more illegal work would take place. Certain scholars agreed. Economist Gary Becker of the University of Chicago, a Nobel laureate, developed a powerful theory that crime was rational—that a person will commit crime if the expected utility exceeds that of using his time and other resources in pursuit of alternative activities, such as leisure or legitimate work. Observation may appear to bear this theory out; after all, neighborhoods with elevated crime rates tend to be those where poverty and unemployment are high as well.

But the notion that unemployment causes crime runs into some obvious difficulties. For one thing, the 1960s, a period of rising crime, had essentially the same unemployment rate as the late 1990s and early 2000s, a period when crime fell. Further, during the Great Depression, when unemployment hit 25 percent, the crime rate in many cities went down. (True, national crime statistics weren’t very useful back in the 1930s, but studies of local police records and individual citizens by scholars such as Glen Elder have generally found reduced crime, too.) Among the explanations offered for this puzzle is that unemployment and poverty were so common during the Great Depression that families became closer, devoted themselves to mutual support, and kept young people, who might be more inclined to criminal behavior, under constant adult supervision. These days, because many families are weaker and children are more independent, we would not see the same effect, so certain criminologists continue to suggest that a 1 percent increase in the unemployment rate should produce as much as a 2 percent increase in property-crime rates.

Yet when the recent recession struck, that didn’t happen. As the national unemployment rate doubled from around 5 percent to nearly 10 percent, the property-crime rate, far from spiking, fell significantly. For 2009, the FBI reported an 8 percent drop in the nationwide robbery rate and a 17 percent reduction in the auto-theft rate from the previous year. Big-city reports show the same thing. Between 2008 and 2010, New York City experienced a 4 percent decline in the robbery rate and a 10 percent fall in the burglary rate. Boston, Chicago, and Los Angeles witnessed similar declines. The FBI’s latest numbers, for 2010, show that the national crime rate fell again.

Some scholars argue that the unemployment rate is too crude a measure of economic frustration to prove the connection between unemployment and crime, since it estimates only the percentage of the labor force that is looking for work and hasn’t found it. But other economic indicators tell much the same story. The labor-force participation rate lets us determine the percentage of the labor force that is neither working nor looking for work—individuals who are, in effect, detached from the labor force. These people should be especially vulnerable to criminal inclinations, if the bad-economy-leads-to-crime theory holds. In 2008, though, even as crime was falling, only about half of men aged 16 to 24 (who are disproportionately likely to commit crimes) were in the labor force, down from over two-thirds in 1988, and a comparable decline took place among African-American men (who are also disproportionately likely to commit crimes).

The University of Michigan’s Consumer Sentiment Index offers another way to assess the link between the economy and crime. This measure rests on thousands of interviews asking people how their financial situations have changed over the last year, how they think the economy will do during the next year, and about their plans for buying durable goods. The index measures the way people feel, rather than the objective conditions they face. It has proved a very good predictor of stock-market behavior and, for a while, of the crime rate, which tended to climb when people lost confidence. When the index collapsed in 2009 and 2010, the stock market predictably went down with it—but this time, the crime rate went down, too.

So we have little reason to ascribe the recent crime decline to jobs, the labor market, or consumer sentiment. The question remains: Why is crime falling?

One obvious answer is that many more people are in prison than in the past. Experts differ on the size of the effect, but I think that William Spelman and Steven Levitt have it right in believing that greater incarceration can explain one-quarter or more of the crime decline. Yes, many thoughtful observers think that we put too many offenders in prison for too long. For some criminals, such as low-level drug dealers and former inmates returned to prison for parole violations, that may be so. But it’s true nevertheless that when prisoners are kept off the street, they can attack only one another, not you or your family.

Imprisonment’s crime-reduction effect helps explain why the burglary, car-theft, and robbery rates are lower in the United States than in England. The difference results not from willingness to send convicted offenders to prison, which is about the same in both countries, but in how long America keeps them behind bars. For the same offense, you will spend more time in prison here than in England. Still, prison can’t be the sole reason for the recent crime drop in this country: Canada has seen roughly the same decline in crime, but its imprisonment rate has been relatively flat for at least two decades.

Another possible reason for reduced crime is that potential victims may have become better at protecting themselves by equipping their homes with burglar alarms, installing extra locks on their cars, and moving into safer buildings or even safer neighborhoods. We have only the faintest idea, however, about how common these trends are or what effects on crime they may have.

Policing, as City Journal readers know, has become more disciplined over the last two decades; these days, it tends to be driven by the desire to reduce crime, rather than simply to maximize arrests, and that shift has reduced crime rates. One of the most important innovations is what has been called hot-spot policing. The great majority of crimes tend to occur in the same places. Put active police resources in those areas instead of telling officers to drive around waiting for 911 calls, and you can bring down crime. The hot-spot idea helped make the New York Police Department’s Compstat program—its planning and accountability system, which, using computerized maps, pinpoints where crime is taking place and enables police chiefs to hold precinct captains responsible for targeting those areas—so effective.

Researchers continue to test and refine hot-spot policing. For instance, criminologists Lawrence Sherman and David Weisburd, after analyzing data from more than 7,000 police arrivals at various locations in Minneapolis, showed that for every minute that an officer spent at a spot, the length of time without a crime there after the officer departed went up—until the officer had been gone for over 15 minutes. After that gap, the crime rate went up. The police can make the best use of their time by staying at a hot spot for a while, moving on, and returning after 15 minutes have elapsed.

Some cities now use a computer-based system for mapping traffic accidents and crime rates. They have noticed that the two measures tend to coincide: where there are more accidents, there is more crime. In Shawnee, Kansas, the police spent a lot more time in about 4 percent of the city’s area, where one-third of the crime occurred: burglaries then fell in that area by 60 percent (even though in the city as a whole, they fell by only 8 percent), and traffic accidents went down by 17 percent.

There may also be a medical reason for the crime decline. For decades, doctors have known that children with lots of lead in their blood are much more likely to be aggressive, violent, and delinquent. In 1974, the Environmental Protection Agency required oil companies to stop putting lead in gasoline. At the same time, lead in paint was banned for any new home (though old buildings still have lead paint, which children can absorb). Tests have shown that the amount of lead in Americans’ blood fell by four-fifths between 1975 and 1991. A 2000 study by economist Rick Nevin suggested that the reduction in gasoline lead produced more than half of the decline in violent crime during the nineties. A later study by Nevin claimed that this also happened in other nations. Another economist, Jessica Wolpaw Reyes, has made the same argument. (One oddity about this fascinating claim has yet to be explained: why the reduction related to lead-free blood included only violent crime, not property offenses.)

Yet one more shift that has probably helped bring down crime is the decrease in heavy cocaine use in many states. Measuring cocaine use is no easy matter; one has to infer it from interviews or from hospital-admission rates. Between 1992 and 2009, the number of admissions for cocaine or crack use fell by nearly two-thirds. In 1999, 9.8 percent of 12th-grade students said that they had tried cocaine; by 2010, that figure had fallen to 5.5 percent.

What we really need to know, though, is not how many people tried coke but how many are heavy users. Casual users who regard coke as a party drug are probably less likely to commit serious crimes than heavier users who may resort to theft and violence to feed their craving. But a study by Jonathan Caulkins at Carnegie Mellon University found that the total demand for cocaine dropped between 1988 and 2010, with a sharp decline among both light and heavy users. This fall in demand may help explain why cocaine has become cheaper, despite intense law enforcement efforts aimed at disrupting its distribution. Illegal markets, like legal ones, cut prices when demand falls.

Blacks still constitute the core of America’s crime problem (see “Is the Criminal-Justice System Racist?,” Spring 2008). But the African-American crime rate, too, has been falling, probably because of the same noneconomic factors behind falling crime in general: imprisonment, policing, environmental changes, and less cocaine abuse.

Knowing the exact crime rate of any ethnic or racial group isn’t easy, since most crimes don’t result in arrest or conviction, and those that do may be an unrepresentative fraction of all crimes. Nevertheless, we do know the racial characteristics of those who have been arrested for crimes, and they show that the number of blacks arrested has been falling. Barry Latzer of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice has demonstrated that between 1980 and 2005, arrests of blacks for homicide and other violent crimes fell by about half nationwide.

It’s also suggestive that in the five New York City precincts where the population is at least 80 percent black, the murder rate fell by 78 percent between 1990 and 2000. In the black neighborhoods of Chicago, which remains a higher-crime city than New York, burglary fell by 52 percent, robbery by 62 percent, and homicide by 33 percent between 1991 and 2003. A skeptic might retort that all these seeming gains were merely the result of police officers’ giving up and no longer recording crimes in black neighborhoods. But the skeptic would have a hard time explaining why opinion surveys in Chicago show that, among blacks, fear of crime was cut in half during the same period.

One can cite further evidence of a turnaround in black crime. Researchers at the federal Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention found that in 1980, arrests of young blacks outnumbered arrests of whites by more than six to one. By 2002, the gap had been closed to just under four to one.

Drug use among blacks has changed even more dramatically than it has among the population as a whole. As Latzer points out—and his argument is confirmed by a study by Bruce D. Johnson, Andrew Golub, and Eloise Dunlap—among 13,000 people arrested in Manhattan between 1987 and 1997, a disproportionate number of whom were black, those born between 1948 and 1969 were heavily involved with crack cocaine, but those born after 1969 used little crack and instead smoked marijuana. The reason was simple: the younger African-Americans had known many people who used crack and other hard drugs and wound up in prisons, hospitals, and morgues. The risks of using marijuana were far less serious. This shift in drug use, if the New York City experience is borne out in other locations, can help explain the fall in black inner-city crime rates after the early 1990s.

John Donohue and Steven Levitt have advanced an additional explanation for the reduction in black crime: the legalization of abortion, which resulted in black children’s never being born into circumstances that would have made them likelier to become criminals. I have ignored that explanation because it remains a strongly contested finding, challenged by two economists at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston and by various academics.

At the deepest level, many of these shifts, taken together, suggest that crime in the United States is falling—even through the greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression—because of a big improvement in the culture. The cultural argument may strike some as vague, but writers have relied on it in the past to explain both the Great Depression’s fall in crime and the sixties’ crime explosion. In the first period, on this view, people took self-control seriously; in the second, self-expression—at society’s cost—became more prevalent. It is a plausible case.

Culture creates a problem for social scientists like me, however. We do not know how to study it in a way that produces hard numbers and tested theories. Culture is the realm of novelists and biographers, not of data-driven social scientists. But we can take some comfort, perhaps, in reflecting that identifying the likely causes of the crime decline is even more important than precisely measuring it.

James Q. Wilson, formerly a professor at Harvard and at UCLA, lectures at Pepperdine. In 2003, he received the Presidential Medal of Freedom.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bhoeconomy; criminology; economy; foodstamps; greatrecession; jamesqwilson; prepperping; snap; survivalping; unemployment; welfare

1 posted on 08/26/2011 10:22:05 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

I wonder if there is not a correlation between welfare (and unemployment) benefits and these crime statistics. In the 70’s and 80’s could you collect several years of unemployment? We’re 1/6 people in modern day bread lines (food stamps), having their needs met, receiving Social Security Disability (I just read on another forum applications are in the millions, and have risen greatly over the last few years).

It’s one thing to say “Unemployement has risen” (especially with the myriad of ways to manipulate that number) it’s another to say “the people have no money.” Cut off the benefits and see how long crime stays low. I bet it’s minutes.


2 posted on 08/26/2011 10:34:29 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: JDW11235

I think it depends on the city

I don’t expect some cities like Houston to ever see that big of a spike in crime .... people routinely keep their peacekeepers handy to resolve anyone wishing to take position of property not belonging to him.


3 posted on 08/26/2011 10:39:48 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

Agreed. However, I think the biggest factor in this scenario is not the fear of those with arms, but the fact that people are living in government housing, fed by the government, with government cell phones, often getting government grants and cash payments, and they’re watching their big screens and doing their drugs. There is a big difference in todays poor and that of 4 years ago!


4 posted on 08/26/2011 10:44:36 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: JDW11235

So when they bring in the bull dozer to level those houses that are full of filth ..... they are all going to riot?

I never could understand why people don’t live in the country, I liked the quiet ... just need to be close enough to get to work and have somewhere to take a shower and you are good.


5 posted on 08/26/2011 10:47:10 PM PDT by dila813
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To: JDW11235

In the 1970a and 80s there were not nearly as many people carrying concealed weapons either.


6 posted on 08/26/2011 10:52:32 PM PDT by jospehm20
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To: dila813

Agreed. I live out in the country, because I didn’t like the situation back in the big city. I like the novelties of the city, but don’t desire any of the negatives that come with it.

I don’t think that the projects will have to be bulldozed. I think (am certain), that the socialists will use other people’s money until they have to eventually resort to ONLY printing, and that all of the goodies of life will quickly vanish, cell phones and all as our currency is hyperinflated away. Greenspan has already said that. “We can absolutely guarantee that the checks will come, but cannot guarantee purchasing power.” (to paraphrase). The rollercoaster is cresting over the top of the big hill right about now. We’re in for a ride.


7 posted on 08/26/2011 10:55:10 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: jospehm20

I don’t happen to believe that the average criminal is worried about that. They get into fights with others that have weapons often (gang crimes). I think they’re more lazy (and suckling at the Government teet), than frightened.

If we ever have a Constitutional Republic again, everyone will be able to carry their arms, concealed or not. But we’re still a ways off from that.


8 posted on 08/26/2011 10:58:21 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: JDW11235

Then why does all sorts of crime go down in states after they pass CCW? Don’t kid yourself; the thugs want helpless victims and do not like the uncertainty that comes with CCW laws. Gunowners.org estimates guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self defense, most times the gun is just shown and not fired. I suppose that a good portion of that number is keeping the criminal class honest.


9 posted on 08/26/2011 11:10:38 PM PDT by jospehm20
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To: jospehm20

“the thugs want helpless victims and do not like the uncertainty that comes with CCW laws.”

I can absolutely agree with you on that. However, where we seem to differ is in the belief of to what extent that is relevant when correlated with high unemployment. I wholeheartedly know that CCW laws lower crime, but in the context of unemployment, we have to look at why a rise in unemployment causes a rise in crime.

I’d say that if a bad economic situation is a major factor, than an economic mitigation (welfare benefits), is a bigger factor than a general sense of fear. I recognize and agree that CCW laws may be a factor, probably even a significant factor, but I don’t think they are the driving factor in the cause of THIS correlation/trend.


10 posted on 08/26/2011 11:16:34 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: JDW11235

Government supplied cell phones? I wouldn’t doubt it.


11 posted on 08/26/2011 11:32:06 PM PDT by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
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To: neverdem

Flash mobs and copper thieves are a big new increase in crime.


12 posted on 08/27/2011 12:07:25 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: unkus

Yes, they’re available through a few suppliers under the TAP (telephone assistance program)/Lifeline prograp, IIRC. They’re low minutes (300 a month or so), and take the place of land lines. But Taxpayer funded, they are (Universal tax on your phone bill).

Here’s a link I gt from a quick search:

“Food Stamp recipients now get free cell phones”
http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=493662


13 posted on 08/27/2011 12:40:30 AM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: neverdem

Castle doctrine, CCW, and a change in governments attitude to the use of force by victims against the aggressors.


14 posted on 08/27/2011 3:16:21 AM PDT by MCF
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To: jospehm20
In the 1970a and 80s there were not nearly as many people carrying concealed weapons either

Good point.

15 posted on 08/27/2011 4:06:50 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: All

Be careful with this whole “crime is down” argument. 35 to 40 percent of all police departments do not report their UCR (Uniform Crime Reports) to the FBI, nor are they mandated to.

There are also some agencies that are classifying a string of crimes as one incident. For example, 50 cars broke into one spot by two guys. That’s one continous incident, not 50 car burglaries or break ins. Two guys get shot on the corner, one incident, not two assault firsts.


16 posted on 08/27/2011 4:15:39 AM PDT by Molon Labbie
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To: neverdem

crime is reported to have risen 400% in NYC. violent crime rates all over have dropped but the property crime rates have risen every where. Murder rates have dropped everywhere as well. Is that because fewer people are getting shot or stabbed? Or because modern medicine is able to keep these people alive? Look at the murder rates and then look at the aggravated assault rates. Some may be surprised to see lower murder rates but increases in agg assault rates.


17 posted on 08/27/2011 4:53:30 AM PDT by qaz123
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To: neverdem
Wow - James Q. Wilson. His studies were the backbone of Rudy Giuliani's clean-up of NYC. It wouldn't be out of line to call him "Rudy Giuliani's Professor."
18 posted on 08/27/2011 6:23:00 AM PDT by danielmryan
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To: JDW11235

The average criminal isn’t a gangbanger and isn’t looking for fights. Think of them as coyotes. They look for something small and/or weak to eat so they don’t get hurt and they get to eat.


19 posted on 08/27/2011 6:25:20 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: dila813
So when they bring in the bull dozer to level those houses that are full of filth ..... they are all going to riot?

No, they'll be put in an expanded Section 8 program.

(Something to think about.)

20 posted on 08/27/2011 6:33:01 AM PDT by danielmryan
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To: neverdem

So crime is rational if one’s perception is distorted by exagerated senses of despair?

I can see some heavy socialist manipulation there.


21 posted on 08/27/2011 6:52:00 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: qaz123

It might have to do with carrying hand guns...


22 posted on 08/27/2011 6:53:20 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: JDW11235

Indeed, I know a cop who says that these are panzies. They only use a gun when they know the other guy does not have one. They come in blazing with guns and when offered resistance with a gun, they run away 99% of the time scared, dropping their weapons.

Thus criminals become antiwar, they drop their weapons, and they may come in with a little knife or in passive aggressive manner without any weapon if they know the victim they are attacking is armed or stronger.

But once they figure there is no resistance, they come in with the guns.

It’s how democrates, ie. liberal Nazis, are operating. Hitler did the same... and all these types used “political” means and perception of inferiority and inoffensivity. But the minute you bring truth and force, they get “offended”.

It’s the bully lazy mentality.


23 posted on 08/27/2011 7:00:24 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: dila813
I think it depends on the city I don’t expect some cities like Houston to ever see that big of a spike in crime .... people routinely keep their peacekeepers handy to resolve anyone wishing to take position of property not belonging to him.

NYC has long had a lower murder rate than Houston. In 2010, Houston had 13 murders per 100K people compared to NYC's 7. Ultimately, tough-on-crime policies combined with the easy acquisition of guns by law-abiding citizens can only do so much. I think demographics and police coverage per square mile are very important. Blacks and Hispanics (90+% of NYC's violent crime) are 50% of NYC's population, and 60% of Houston's population. Police coverage in Houston is much sparser - 9 cops per sq mile compared to NYC's 113 cops per sq mile. Ultimately, I think these are the reasons why on a per capita basis, Houston has violent and non-violent crime rates that are double or more NYC's.

24 posted on 08/27/2011 9:02:51 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: JDW11235
I wonder if there is not a correlation between welfare (and unemployment) benefits and these crime statistics. In the 70’s and 80’s could you collect several years of unemployment? We’re 1/6 people in modern day bread lines (food stamps), having their needs met, receiving Social Security Disability (I just read on another forum applications are in the millions, and have risen greatly over the last few years). It’s one thing to say “Unemployement has risen” (especially with the myriad of ways to manipulate that number) it’s another to say “the people have no money.” Cut off the benefits and see how long crime stays low. I bet it’s minutes.

Actually, there's a theory that welfare benefits increase crime. The main reason? Crime really doesn't pay. Not as well as even the crappiest full time job. Because crime can really only be a part time job. Do it enough to approximate full-time wages, and the criminal will either be arrested by police or killed by a private citizen defending his property.

25 posted on 08/27/2011 9:14:50 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: JDW11235

Thank you.


26 posted on 08/27/2011 9:19:31 AM PDT by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
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To: Zhang Fei

Read the article, we are talking about property crimes


27 posted on 08/27/2011 9:40:25 AM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

Houston’s per capita property crime rate is 2 to 6 times NYC’s. Burglary is about 6x:

http://www.city-data.com/city/Houston-Texas.html

http://www.city-data.com/city/New-York-New-York.html


28 posted on 08/27/2011 11:46:44 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: neverdem
James Q. Wilson is one of the few true experts on crime in America. He usually gets it.

What I don't understand is this: the majority of property crimes and crimes against persons are committed by the younger adults. In the US in the 1960's, when crime was rising and attracting headlines, the modal American was in his twenties.

Now, the modal American is over forty, the oldest ever. Not so many forty-plus year-olds out there stealing cars and stirring up trouble. I wonder why criminologists don't report on the obvious age variable, even to knock it down if it doesn't hold.

29 posted on 08/27/2011 11:56:36 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: qaz123
Property crime rates are not rising, they're falling. That's the whole issue:

For 2009, the FBI reported an 8 percent drop in the nationwide robbery rate and a 17 percent reduction in the auto-theft rate from the previous year. Big-city reports show the same thing. Between 2008 and 2010, New York City experienced a 4 percent decline in the robbery rate and a 10 percent fall in the burglary rate. Boston, Chicago, and Los Angeles witnessed similar declines...

30 posted on 08/27/2011 12:11:54 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: neverdem

In my area, crime has definately risen.

Actually punishing those who are guilt has NOT risen.

They keep getting let go without fines or punishment.

That alone helps there statistics. It isn’t helping the victims of all the break-ins.


31 posted on 08/27/2011 1:46:34 PM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: neverdem

In my area, crime has definately risen.

Actually punishing those who are guilt has NOT risen.

They keep getting let go without fines or punishment.

That alone helps their statistics. It isn’t helping the victims of all the break-ins.


32 posted on 08/27/2011 1:46:43 PM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: neverdem
Jobs have fled, lawbreaking hasn’t risen—

Looks like this guy has been in a coma for the last couple of years.

He has yet to hear about "flash mobs?"

33 posted on 08/27/2011 2:42:42 PM PDT by Publius6961 (My world was lovely, until it was taken over by parasites.)
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To: Zhang Fei

Something is wrong with the site for New York, look at nearest cities.

You have to add all of these together to get NY NY

When they talk Houston, you have to check to see if they are including all of it or just the downtown areas, if they did the same thing as Houston, same thing.

You know the number one for violence is El Paso even though right across the border there are mass graves.

Go to the FBI and look at the metropolitan data


34 posted on 08/27/2011 5:35:13 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

Potential victims have changed their habits, for instance, going to the mall less, shopping in parking lots with cameras like Walmart has. We all know instances of cars getting their windows smashed in broad daylight in the big mall lot.


35 posted on 08/27/2011 6:20:46 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: Ciexyz

I definitely am seeing a seedy element popping up all over my town, they are out in force.

I keep the gun loaded and ready to fire.

They eyeball me and I eyeball them back ...


36 posted on 08/27/2011 6:24:13 PM PDT by dila813
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To: jospehm20
...thugs want helpless victims and do not like the uncertainty that comes with CCW laws.

Crime went down in Florida after conceal carry was passed.

37 posted on 08/31/2011 7:59:35 PM PDT by GOPJ (126 people were indicted for being terrorists in the last two years. Every one of them was Muslim.)
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