Posted on 08/28/2011 6:48:15 AM PDT by Nicojones
You’re not saving anybody by abandoning the moral, constitutional and legal principles that argue against child-murder.
You may fool yourself, but you’re not fooling me.
I don't have any power...except the power inherent in the self-evident truth contained in this free republic's founding documents.
It's your "pro-life" Republicans who do have political power. Which they doggedly refuse to exercise in defense of innocent human life, even when they have super-majorities and/or control every branch of government.
So, all of those children now alive because of parental consent laws, parental notification laws, laws requiring waiting periods and sonograms - all of those lives are meaningless? Not to them, not to God, and not to me.
God save us from people like you.
I make note of the fact that none of those who are arguing with me have yet been able to answer any of the simple central questions I’ve asked of them.
1. Is the child in the womb a person?
2. Other than the supreme right, the right to live, which other God-given, unalienable rights do they think states can alienate if they feel like it?
You’re making utilitarian arguments, not moral arguments, and most certainly not constitutional arguments.
Sorry, I’m not a utilitarian.
"No State shall deprive any person of life without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.""No person shall be deprived of life without due process of law."
Which part of "no person" and "no state" and "any person" do you fail to understand?
“The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution..."-- Article VI, Section 3, the United States Constitution
Believe it or not, I do agree that the child in the womb is a person, and should be protected. However, we are not a dictatorship, and no one person can decree that the from henceforth, that is how the law will be interpreted. So until we either get the Supreme Court to agree with that interpretation or to get enough pro-life conservatives in Congress to pass legislation that specifies that this interpretation is binding, I will continue to pursue a 3-part strategy:
1) I will continue to try to elect strongly pro-life congressmen and sentators so that we can get a large enough majority to pass a Human Life amendment and remove all doubt.
2) I will work to elect a president that will support pro-life policies such as the Hyde Amendment and the Mexico City policy, and who will appoint supreme court justices that understand that decisions like Roe v. Wade do violence to the Constitution and to the American way of life and will base their decisions on the Constitution, not on "penumbra".
3) I will continue to support governors and state legislatures that do everything possible within the current legal environment to reduce, restrict and prevent as many abortions as possible, so as to save as many lives as possible now, while we work for a permanent ban on this horrible practice.
The personally binding nature of the oath - to support the Constitution, not the whims of any other man - does not allow for the breaking of it because someone else in some other office is breaking theirs.
If you’re waiting for the courts, you’re going to be waiting until the LORD pronounces judgment on this republic. The soil of this once-great republic is soaked in the blood of more than fifty million innocent boys and girls already.
And don’t kid yourself, if you won’t hold executives, or wannabe executives, to the primary duty associated with their oaths, you’re not holding legislators to that requirement either. And I know for a fact that they are not being held to that.
This is the story of the modern Republican Party. They’re acting exactly the way the Whigs acted concerning the central moral questions of their day. And we all know how that turned out...
I'm sure that when we get to Heaven, the souls of all of the children who died waiting for your perfect solution, that could have been saved by a "utilitarian" law, will be comforted by the fact that you stayed true to your moral arguments at the expense of their lives...
That's a start. Now, if we if we can simply get political actions to line up with that agreement...
But you're fooling yourself if you think anything short of asserting the self-evident personhood of every child in the womb is going to save anybody. We have forty years of history to prove that it won't.
If all are not protected, none are secure. Not even you.
-- Thomas Jefferson"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever."
Jesus said he would leave the ninety-nine to look for the one that was lost. I pray that you come to an understanding of what that means.
I have been a Christian for almost 40 years. Trust me, I understand what Jesus said. I also understand that we do not have the kingdom of Christ here on Earth, and so we have to work within the political systgem we have, not the one we wish we had.
The political system we have? It’s a constitutional system. But that doesn’t matter much if those who represent us refuse to follow the Constitution. Which they’re not doing, even in the most important respect of all, the equal protection of the life of innocent human beings. That’s the point.
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ 41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Thank you for the scripture quote, but I know it quite well.
Well, good. For all of us, including me, of course, knowing it and applying it are not always the same thing.
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