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'This is 21st Century racism and apartheid': Cherokee Indian tribe expels all slave descendants
dailymail.co.uk ^ | 25 Aug 2011 (updated) | Paul Bentley

Posted on 08/28/2011 9:41:59 PM PDT by smokingfrog

The nation's second-largest Indian tribe formally booted from membership thousands of descendants of black slaves who were brought to Oklahoma more than 170 years ago by Native American owners.

The Cherokee nation voted after the Civil War to admit the slave descendants to the tribe.

But on Monday, the tribe's Supreme Court ruled that a 2007 tribal decision to kick the so-called 'Freedmen' out of the tribe could be upheld.

The controversy stems from a footnote in the brutal history of U.S. treatment of Native Americans.

When many Indians were forced to move to what later became Oklahoma from the eastern U.S. in 1838, some who had owned plantations in the South brought along their slaves.

Some 4,000 Indians died during the forced march, which became known as the Trail of Tears.

'And our ancestors carried the baggage,' said Marilyn Vann, the Freedman leader who is a plaintiff in the legal battle.

Officially, there are about 2,800 Freedmen, but another 3,500 have tribal membership applications pending, and there could be as many as 25,000 eligible to enter the tribe, according to Vann.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: apartheid; cherokee; ethniccleansing; indians; slavery
Maybe they could start their own tribe.
1 posted on 08/28/2011 9:42:05 PM PDT by smokingfrog
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To: smokingfrog

No one ever talks about the Indians who owned slaves, the Jews who owned slaves, and the freed blacks who owned slaves. I think the Cherokees may owe some reparations.


2 posted on 08/28/2011 9:46:20 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: smokingfrog

If the Freedmen start their own tribe, it will known as “The Sue”.

(That’s a legal joke, folks)


3 posted on 08/28/2011 9:51:49 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: smokingfrog

Maybe they could all stop living in the past? Nahhhhh. No money in it.


4 posted on 08/28/2011 9:53:12 PM PDT by ReneeLynn (Socialism is SO yesterday. Fascism, it's the new black. Mmm mmm mmm...)
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To: Mamzelle
No one ever talks about the Indians who owned slaves, the Jews who owned slaves, and the freed blacks who owned slaves. I think the Cherokees may owe some reparations.

You are absolutely correct. I am shocked by these revelations. Now in full disclosure I was told by my grandmother that her grandmother was a 'full-blood' Cherokee. And so some years back I was attempting to located a genealogical record of this woman. I made contact with the powers that be in OK to see IF they might have records... and got a cold response that unless she was on the 'rolls' I had no claim... Thing of it was I was NOT trying to make a claim, I just wanted to find out what I could about this woman.

Obviously this 'word' slave has a very narrow meaning set in time. I am trying to find the correct word to describe what it is to have been place into perpetual bondage/debt by our elected officials.

5 posted on 08/28/2011 10:01:06 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: ReneeLynn

Yup. Their casinos pretty much scalped the white man of their money.


6 posted on 08/28/2011 10:02:05 PM PDT by max americana (FUBO NATION 2012 FK BARAK)
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To: Mamzelle

>>No one ever talks about the Indians who owned slaves, the Jews who owned slaves, and the freed blacks who owned slaves. I think the Cherokees may owe some reparations.<<

And if reparations are ever asked from White America (whatever that is), then White America must ask for reparations from the original slavers — African tribes.


7 posted on 08/28/2011 10:02:11 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Herman Cain 2012)
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To: Just mythoughts

>> I am trying to find the correct word to describe what it is to have been place into perpetual bondage/debt by our elected officials. <<

“Homeowner.”


8 posted on 08/28/2011 10:04:05 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Herman Cain 2012)
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To: Mamzelle
Once met the Chief of the Cherokee Nation, Wilma Mankiller. It was a real honor to meet her and a number of the tribe's leaders.

I'm sure money isn't involved in this demand to be counted among the tribe. But after reading the article, and from only a few pictures, it didn't look like the Freedmen'inter-married into the tribe. But in reality, maybe I am wrong. Set me straight if you know.

9 posted on 08/28/2011 10:06:41 PM PDT by CT
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To: Mamzelle

“No one ever...” not really true. It is no secret. When the VP of the Cornfederacy was a Jew who could ignore it?


10 posted on 08/28/2011 10:09:08 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: smokingfrog

Just a hunch, but do ya think this might have anything to do with casino money?


11 posted on 08/28/2011 10:09:22 PM PDT by Hugin ("A man'll usually tell you his bad intentions if you listen and let yourself hear it"--- Open Range)
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To: Hugin

Uh, yeah - the more that is in the tribe, the more the loot has to spread around.


12 posted on 08/28/2011 10:18:32 PM PDT by Borough Park
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To: max americana

I suspect sharing the casino money with a possible 25,000 new tribesmen might have something to do with it. It might also have something to do with the 25,000 new applicants thinking they’re going to get casino money.

My children’s Dad gets a check from the Nation every year, I don’t know how much it is, but way back when it was $25 from oil revenues. But neither he nor his parents lived on the reservation under Nation laws, and that may have something to do with it. The mostly full blood heritage Cherokees that live on the reservation get a lot of benefits, especially in housing from the Nation. His Mom was of full blood Cherokee heritage, but his Dad was only half. My grandkids are the last in line to be able claim the heritage and they don’t get any revenue as their heritage is diluted.


13 posted on 08/28/2011 10:35:50 PM PDT by RowdyFFC
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To: smokingfrog

The more folk they can cut from the casino income distributions, the more grand mansions available for those still on “the list”.


14 posted on 08/28/2011 10:39:08 PM PDT by Grimmy (equivocation is but the first step along the road to capitulation)
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To: smokingfrog

“Removal from the membership rolls means the Freedmen will no longer be eligible for free health care and other benefits such as education concessions.”

‘Nuff said!


15 posted on 08/28/2011 11:18:26 PM PDT by DakotaRed (Why not just pass a law requiring criminals to obey the laws?)
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To: smokingfrog

To late ....already a blackfoot tribe.


16 posted on 08/28/2011 11:39:50 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: arrogantsob
yea but you should go on some of those sites that Jewish kids run about notables "who are Jewish or not?"

and listen to them howl and parse and make excuses when the name Judah P Benjamen comes up...it's hilarious but sad...their ignorance

we southerners were pretty cool with our Jewish homies in antebellum days...they were more fellow travelers then than now politically

A must read for those interested..I have a few other more obscure writings on old Jews in the south...you would be surprised at the number of temples in little towns and the Jewish part of the old South Carolina constitution granting Jews specific religious freedoms


17 posted on 08/28/2011 11:46:40 PM PDT by wardaddy (I support anyone but Romney)
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To: smokingfrog

For the record...from what I can glean on this...I think the black Cherokees got the shaft. It doesn’t seem right

I want all NeoYankees and race baiters here who call me racist day in and day out to take note.

thanks


18 posted on 08/28/2011 11:48:29 PM PDT by wardaddy (I support anyone but Romney)
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To: wardaddy

Cherokees fielded army units for the Confederacy—the First and Second Mounted Rifles—many fought at Elk Horn Tavern for the south. The last Confederate General to surrender was a Cherokee. They supported the Lost Cause in hopes that they could, after the south won the war, become a state of their own in the CSA.


19 posted on 08/29/2011 12:12:14 AM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Hugin
It's not all about Casino money. There are all kinds of government benefits that go along with being a bonafide native american. But, they decide who is and who isn't and whether or not you get the id card that makes it all happen. There are scholarships, health-care, and government jobs reserved for native americans that all go along with the designation.

But, of course, if it was just about government money it probably wouldn't be an issue. Before there was casino money there was oil money too.

20 posted on 08/29/2011 12:20:58 AM PDT by Belasarius (Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward. Job 5:2-7)
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To: wardaddy
It looks like they may be within their rights, based on what the treaty says. But I don't know that any of the slaves were considered as members of the tribe before the civil war, so I don't know why they should be now. If the Cherokee would have left their slaves behind when Andy Jackson kicked them out of N. Carolina, they would have just ended up as someone else's slaves anyway. It seems to me that freeing of the slaves due to the civil war would make them United States citizens, not Cherokee Nation citizens.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_freedmen_controversy#Treaty_of_1866

Some people against membership for Freedmen descendants support Chief Smith's stance that the Freedmen are not Cherokee citizens because their ancestors were listed on the Freedmen Roll of the Dawes Rolls and not on the "Cherokee By-Blood" Roll. Smith and supporters claim that the Freedmen and their descendants have not been active in the tribe for 100 years, that the Freedmen were compensated for slavery with their Dawes land allotments and not tribal membership, that they were forced on the tribe due to the Treaty Of 1866, and that they are solely after the tribe's resources and Cherokee Nation's federally funded programs

21 posted on 08/29/2011 12:39:32 AM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open ( <o> ---)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
If the Freedmen start their own tribe, it will known as “The Sue”.

Nah. It would be 40 acres, a mule and a lawyer.
22 posted on 08/29/2011 12:45:29 AM PDT by PA Engineer (SP/XX12: Time to beat the swords of government tyranny into the plowshares of freedom.)
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To: freedumb2003

>>And if reparations are ever asked from White America (whatever that is), then White America must ask for reparations from the original slavers — African tribes.<<

All of them were either Mohammedans or abetted by Mohammedans. Mohammedans are ultimately responsible for all of our race issues. That’s what pains me, as a white man, to see the many black women covered from head to toe in black burqas, right here in America.


23 posted on 08/29/2011 2:03:48 AM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: smokingfrog

I’m sorry,but being freedmen doesn’t mean they were accepted as full- fledged tribal members,unless they had an ancestor that was a member of the tribe


24 posted on 08/29/2011 2:18:03 AM PDT by screaming eagle2 (no matter what you call it,a pre-owned vehicle,IS STILL A USED CAR!)
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To: Mamzelle
No one ever talks about the Indans who owned slaves, the Jews who owned slaves, and the freed blacks who owned slaves. I think the Cherokees may owe some reparations.

Anthony Johnson, one of the first blacks brought to the original Jamestown colony in 1619, was responsible for establishing slavery in Virginia in 1655, when he won a lawsuit declaring his black servant, John Casor, to be his slave for life. Prior to that point, blacks imported to Virginia were only indentured servants for a period of a few years, and thereupon became free.

25 posted on 08/29/2011 2:28:40 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (When you've only heard lies your entire life, the truth sounds insane.)
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To: smokingfrog

There are no “Native Americans”.

Just an argument over who got here first - and when.


26 posted on 08/29/2011 2:41:45 AM PDT by PeteB570 ( Islam is the sea in which the Terrorist Shark swims. The deeper the sea the larger the shark.)
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To: smokingfrog

“Some 4,000 Indians died during the forced march, which became known as the Trail of Tears.”

Yeah... they leave out the reason. The Cherokees were aligned with the Confederate Army and were killing Union soldiers and raiding supply lines.


27 posted on 08/29/2011 4:48:17 AM PDT by WaterBoard
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To: WaterBoard
Time-line:

1838 - Trail of Tears

1861 - Civil War or War Between the States (take your pick)

28 posted on 08/29/2011 4:59:24 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: arrogantsob
The point being, this is all about Hating Whitey. (Liberal Jews dislike that they're white. They are not only self-hating Jews, but self-hating whites.)

Look at all the self-hating white people who pass for black, or try to by dint of constant noise-making. Look at Eric Holder. Every day he's more sneering at Whitey, because he seems paler by the week. Colin Powell--first black Sec of State? No, that was Condi Rice.

Ben Jealous is the funniest because he is the whitest and the most jealous of black people

It's all the reverse of that old melodrama with Clark Gable and Yvonne DeCarlo, "Band of Angels." Where she was passing for black, now we have all these people passing for black to try to cash in on the race hustle.

The whole story of the Trail of Tears doesn't tell an interesting part--that many of those displaced by force from their land looked as white as Yvonne deCarlo. They owned farms and slaves in the Blue Ridge and Smokies. But land-grabbers found a pretext and managed to corrupt Jackson. So a lot of those along the Trail of Tears were simply white people who failed to "pass."

Just how much cream can be in that coffee before it's cream instead of coffee?

29 posted on 08/29/2011 5:55:54 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle

Correction: in the old movie, Yvonne deCarlo’s character was unintentionally passing for white until her white father died and she became subject to the the slave laws of antebellum Lousiiana.


30 posted on 08/29/2011 5:58:18 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: WaterBoard
· In 1838 the Cherokee were stripped of their rights and forced to move against their will on 'The Trail of Tears' by the governments of Georgia and United States.

· In 1861, John Ross, the renowned principal chief of the Cherokees, who had led them wisely for almost forty years, took a decided stand against the Confederates. He issued a proclamation (May 17), in which he reminded his people of their treaty obligations with the United States, and urged them to be faithful to them, and to take no part in the stirring events of the day.

31 posted on 08/29/2011 6:48:27 AM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open ( <o> ---)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade; Blood of Tyrants; cva66snipe

I don’t think that is why the more pure Cherokees are today expelling the black members.

It’s about the money and the blacks went with the original tribe to Oklahoma decades prior to WBTS.

Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole and Creek history is a long one of betrayal and mixed loyalties and bad results isn’t it?

going back to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi and Tennessee

only the ones on the right side at the very end escaped the relocation and many of them betrayed their own

a sad affair

I just don’t see why kick out the blacks now after 5-7 generations and a fair amount of mixing

unless many of those blacks have scant relationship to the tribe...which could be..I see folks claiming Indian all the time who sure don’t look it

lots of folks around Middle Tn that carry Indian blood...I read it runs at least 10-15%...even after our huge Yankee migration here

one of the richest men here ..Jack Lowery...Lumbee from NC...looks Indian but blonde/white hair...lawyer started MBE business as a road builder...one of state’s largest and being Lumbee..he gets set asides.

probably worth north of 100 million

i own businesses around him...very approachable guy...in Lebanon TN he is Mr Jack to everyone
(no, I’m not stalking you BOT...I just happened to see the COEXIIST posts at same time..lol)


32 posted on 08/29/2011 8:38:50 AM PDT by wardaddy (I support anyone but Romney)
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To: smokingfrog

Good point...I don’t know either...had not thought of it that way?

Your clarifications are causing me to rethink this?

Doesn’t what’s his name...post here?

let me think...right wing Indian pundit...pal of Wes Studi..(real Indian)

I looked it up...David Yeagley...used to post here as Bald Eagle or Owl Eagle I think...conservative pundit but I think he is Comanche descended

who knows...interesting legal case no question...I’ll follow it...keep us posted


33 posted on 08/29/2011 8:58:09 AM PDT by wardaddy (I support anyone but Romney)
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To: arrogantsob

I don’t believe that Alexander Stevens was Jewish. Perhaps you are referring to Judah Benjamin, who served as Secretary of State and Attorney General for the Confederacy. He was Jewish.


34 posted on 08/29/2011 9:40:03 AM PDT by ops33 (Senior Master Sergeant, USAF (Retired))
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To: ops33

You are correct, thanks for rectifying my mistake. He was also Secretary of War. Turns out Benjamin was twice offered to be nominated Justice of the US Supreme Court and turned them down. I didn’t know that.


35 posted on 08/29/2011 10:23:12 AM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: freedumb2003

I am a big supporter of reparations ...from Democrats since they are the ones who made up the Slaverowners.


36 posted on 08/29/2011 10:24:27 AM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: wardaddy

Looks good.

Benjamin was the SECOND Jewish Senator. The first was from Florida, David Yulee.

Charleston was a center for Judaism as early as the Revolutionary War.


37 posted on 08/29/2011 10:30:13 AM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: Mamzelle

It was the discovery of gold on Cherokee lands which led to the removal of the tribe. This was one of the most disgraceful acts in US history where a president told the highest legal authority to stuff it. Jackson was a great general but a miserable person so his illegalities are no surprise.

People who visited Arkansas in the formative stages of the state often commented that the Cherokee who had relocated there were more civilized than the whites. As one born and raised in the state I can report this without censure. And there is some Cherokee blood in my veins so have some sympathy there.


38 posted on 08/29/2011 10:41:16 AM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: smokingfrog

Wait until they find out they are due $50K because they “tried to farm” at some point. Pigford III anyone?


39 posted on 08/30/2011 10:55:27 PM PDT by TenthAmendmentChampion (Darwinism is to Genesis as Global Warming is to Revelations.)
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