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Rick Perry will self-destruct on Immigration if he keeps this up
Myself(Vanity)

Posted on 09/05/2011 4:50:33 AM PDT by JosephSmithNAW

Perry's word "1200 miles from Brownsville to El Paso two things how long do you think it will take to build that, and then if you build a 30 foot wall from Brownsville to El Paso the 35 foot ladder business is real good, you got to have people on the ground."

This is stupid and this line of argument, when it came from the pundits and the talking heads has been busted before. No one is saying that just build the fence and leave it there. Proponents of the fence have always said that the fence is only ONE of the many important steps that have to taken jointly with others to secure the border

I have no idea why Perry is so hell bent on committing political suicide. He had little credibility on immigration to begin with because of his stance on dream act, sanctuary cities etc. Now he has to stretch this to breaking point? I hope his positions on Amnesty and other immigration issues do not follow in this same mold.

In 2008 McCain went from frontrunner to single digit candidate in the GOP primary because he embraced comprehensive immigration reform, amnesty and the rest of that nonsense. It was only after he got an earful from GOP primary voters and made a back flip on this, that he was able to revive himself in New Hampshire.

You would think candidates would learn from the history of past elections


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: aliens; chat; openborderperry; palin; palindroneattack; perry; rickperry; rinoperry; vanity
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1 posted on 09/05/2011 4:50:36 AM PDT by JosephSmithNAW
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To: JosephSmithNAW

There must be one sh*tload of $$$ bribeing these pro-illegal politicians.
After all, 70-80% of the VOTING PUBLIC wants ‘em out of here.
SO—WHAT’S REALLY GOING ON???


2 posted on 09/05/2011 4:54:00 AM PDT by Flintlock (Photo ID for all voters--let our dead rest in peace.)
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To: JosephSmithNAW

I agree.


3 posted on 09/05/2011 4:54:11 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: JosephSmithNAW

I’m concerned about this too. The last thing I want is another president from Texas calling us “Nativists” because we want the federal government to enforce our immigration laws.


4 posted on 09/05/2011 4:54:35 AM PDT by teg_76
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To: JosephSmithNAW

I’m tired of the Perry immigration apologists on FR. Giving Perry support is one thing, but to try to deny his incredibly weak stance on illegal immigration is disingenous.


5 posted on 09/05/2011 4:56:49 AM PDT by teg_76
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To: JosephSmithNAW

Perry owes a lot to the leftists for his success.


6 posted on 09/05/2011 4:57:43 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: teg_76

Agreed. I am still for tactically voting for Perry to prevent a Mittens nomination if events unfold in that direction, but he has to get his act together on Immigration.


7 posted on 09/05/2011 4:58:54 AM PDT by JosephSmithNAW
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To: JosephSmithNAW

This is Perry’s Achilles heel. I found a clip from an Austin TV station from the governors race last year where he was proposing a “guest worker” program, and Democrats liked his stance on the border.


8 posted on 09/05/2011 5:07:00 AM PDT by stratman1969 (Run, Sarah, Run - 2012!)
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To: teg_76

I’d say it’s a wide stance.


9 posted on 09/05/2011 5:07:24 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Flintlock
SO—WHAT’S REALLY GOING ON???

Power is power and when republicans become a permanent minority because of this pandering, they'll just become democrats.
10 posted on 09/05/2011 5:08:47 AM PDT by cripplecreek (A vote for Amnesty is a vote for a Permenant Democrat majority. ..Choose well.)
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To: Paladin2

Jus’ reachin’ fer the paper eh?!


11 posted on 09/05/2011 5:09:24 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: JosephSmithNAW
Yeah, you guys are right, let's just build a fence and not do as Perry is suggesting and put people on the groud guarding the border. Shoot, who needs troops, let's just build a fence!

I live in Arizona, I don't know about the rest of you but I want TROOPS not a fence. Ask the ranchers how much the darned fence is helping them.

12 posted on 09/05/2011 5:10:21 AM PDT by McGavin999
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To: JosephSmithNAW
The Germans Mexicans will never get past the Maginot Line Fence.

Mr. niteowl77

13 posted on 09/05/2011 5:10:52 AM PDT by niteowl77 ("Romneycare," he said as he turned and walked away.)
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To: Flintlock

Open borders Perry does not need to be bribed on this. He is a greenhouse produced open borders shill whose career has been financed and nurtured by the pro illegal crowd since its inception.

No national boundry has always been a core issue with Perry.


14 posted on 09/05/2011 5:13:28 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: JosephSmithNAW
I think you're missing the point. No matter what you do to try to keep people out, they'll find another way around. A border fence (which at one time I supported) if put up will not deter people from coming in. They'll either tunnel under the fence or they'll simply hop on a boat and land on a beach somewhere. This is already happening. We all know that there are plenty of people willing to give these people a lift. Once in the US they have children who automatically become citizens and then the entitlements begin.

What is needed is reform with hand outs and give-mes. Children who are born in the US should not automatically become US citizens. And only US citizens should be allowed entitlements. They (or their parents) should not get in-state tuition (or any tuition), welfare, unemployment, medicare, etc. Employers should be fully punished for knowingly hiring these peoples or failing to do proper background checks. Sanctuary cities should not get any federal funding.

I heard Bill O’Reilly and Lou Dobbs about a week ago wringing their hands about what to do with children born in this country to parents of illegals. Sorry but they shouldn't get a dime borrowed from China.

You cut off the source of entitlements for these people and other incentives, and there will be no reason for these people to come.

15 posted on 09/05/2011 5:13:34 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: JosephSmithNAW
"1200 miles from Brownsville to El Paso two things how long do you think it will take to build that, and then if you build a 30 foot wall from Brownsville to El Paso the 35 foot ladder business is real good, you got to have people on the ground."

I guess words don't have meaning around here anymore.

16 posted on 09/05/2011 5:14:38 AM PDT by McGavin999
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To: JosephSmithNAW

You need both the wall and the boots on the ground. It isn’t as if there is no precedent. A 35 foot ladder wouldn’t do much good...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian’s_Wall


17 posted on 09/05/2011 5:15:02 AM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: stratman1969

A guest worker program sounds like a better approach than outright amnesty, but I doubt it’s workable. Governor Perry opposes the use of law enforcement to help identify illegals, like AZ SB-1040. So, how does he propose to keep track of his illegal guest workers, AND what’s he going to do when they simply refuse to go home at the end of their 2-year work periods? Additionally, if he’s not willing to get tough, how exactly does he get illegals to come forward, especially when being off the books is a large part of why they’re desirable employees in the first place?

No. I think we have the right idea in the first place. Enforce the laws on the books. Defend the border. Make the USA very inhospitable for anyone here illegally and those who collude to keep the illegals here.


18 posted on 09/05/2011 5:15:25 AM PDT by CitizenUSA (What's special about bad? Bad is easy. Anyone can do bad. I prefer good!)
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To: Flintlock
SO—WHAT’S REALLY GOING ON???

It is real simple. Our political elites are almost all rich. The have servants nannies, maids and gardeners who are probably here legally but all from South of The Border. These elites inevitably get friendly with the help. The help has stories about relatives who can't come in blah blah blah. The elitist become "simpatico" with their plight. It is corruption plain and simple.

19 posted on 09/05/2011 5:16:24 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Flintlock
There must be one sh*tload of $$$ bribeing these pro-illegal politicians. After all, 70-80% of the VOTING PUBLIC wants ‘em out of here. SO—WHAT’S REALLY GOING ON???

The same thing that allows 1-2% of the population ( Homosexuals) to get laws jammed down our throats
20 posted on 09/05/2011 5:16:56 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: cripplecreek; Flintlock

While being interviewed by Levin, he cast immigration as a states rights issue. Mark choose not to call him on it. Of course, it’s way to big for that and Perry has got to know.


21 posted on 09/05/2011 5:17:40 AM PDT by Track9 (Make War!!)
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To: McGavin999
"but I want TROOPS not a fence."

Uh, it's good to have both a physical barrier and clear fire zone to be able to observe and intercept with an optimal patrol manpower level.

Both Israel and East Germany seemed to have done the development work to get the best practices developed. Is it perfect? Heck no, but both a barrier array and patrols are required.

22 posted on 09/05/2011 5:17:49 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: HarleyD

Not really. As I said in the OP, the fence is only ONE of the elements of securing the border. Several other things have to be done ALONG with building a fence. Perry used these words I quoted while rejecting the idea of a border fence. This is unacceptable.


23 posted on 09/05/2011 5:17:49 AM PDT by JosephSmithNAW
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To: JosephSmithNAW

Not only will I not vote for eithet of those two, I will ridicule anyone who does in exactly the same manner that I dish it out against McAmnesty supporters now.

When there is a murder or a drunk driving death I call them in public on getting what they wanted. I won’t shut up about it and they have no place to retreat to intellectually. So too with mittens and goodhair.


24 posted on 09/05/2011 5:18:01 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: uncbob
( Homosexuals) to get laws jammed down our throats

LOL

25 posted on 09/05/2011 5:18:12 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: McGavin999
"1200 miles from Brownsville to El Paso two things how long do you think it will take to build that, and then if you build a 30 foot wall from Brownsville to El Paso the 35 foot ladder business is real good, you got to have people on the ground."

A fence works both ways.

Besides, I don't think a lot of Texans want an ugly 30ft fence running along the Rio Grande. Boots on the ground.
26 posted on 09/05/2011 5:18:51 AM PDT by Misplaced Texan (July 4, 2009 - the first day of the 2nd Revolution!)
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To: McGavin999

I don’t want troops or a fence. I want the laws enforced. Maybe we should stop to THINK WHY are they coming here? Maybe the number one thing to do is turn off the magnet. Stop with the freebies, no more free health care, no more free education, no more free welfare, etc.—problem solved. This problem is government generated.


27 posted on 09/05/2011 5:19:03 AM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: JosephSmithNAW

The REAL problem as Milton Friedman pointed out isn’t open borders but the WELFARE state that makes it so attractive to come here for the free bennies and for jobs that Americans won’t take


28 posted on 09/05/2011 5:19:07 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: teg_76

In a way, it’s not all that important. What is important is which one of our candidates is most likely to defeat Obama who is decidedly far weaker on illegal immigration than Perry, or any one of our candidates.


29 posted on 09/05/2011 5:21:11 AM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: JosephSmithNAW

Borders, Language, Culture...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0pgVhp-q3I


30 posted on 09/05/2011 5:21:28 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: Track9
While being interviewed by Levin, he cast immigration as a states rights issue.

Wait a minute, his supporters claim its not up to the states.
31 posted on 09/05/2011 5:22:06 AM PDT by cripplecreek (A vote for Amnesty is a vote for a Permenant Democrat majority. ..Choose well.)
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To: uncbob
The welfare state AND open borders are BOTH contributing to illegal immigration. Ignoring either of these causes will ensure we will never solve the problem.
32 posted on 09/05/2011 5:22:33 AM PDT by JosephSmithNAW
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To: McGavin999

A fence is useless without troops or guards or proper laws, they will just dig under it, go over it or frankly cut a hole in it and the Dems would assist them in doing it. Unless you have the manpower and the right laws, its useless.

Now, troops, shoot on sight orders and severe penalties would help and a good start.

You cross the border illegally, get caught, dna taken,databased, immediate expulsion no questions asked and a 10 year exclusion order.

You come back again, immediate 1 year jail term and then deportation with lifetime ban.

This nannying has to stop. You put the right deterrents, the problem will stop.

Now start fining and punishing the Mexican Govt for every illegal that crosses will soon spur them into action.


33 posted on 09/05/2011 5:22:56 AM PDT by sunmars
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To: sunmars

34 posted on 09/05/2011 5:25:05 AM PDT by Diogenesis ("Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction." Pres. Ronald Reagan)
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Simple question to those who oppose the fence/wall

Will a border fence/wall help or hinder the 'boots on the ground' that are tasked to secure the border?

If you believe the fence/wall helps, then why is Rick Perry opposing it?

35 posted on 09/05/2011 5:30:08 AM PDT by JosephSmithNAW
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To: cripplecreek
It shouldn't be a states rights issue. Maybe some details would be unique to each state, but general immigration is a fed issue. I don't know what to tell you, I'm simply reporting what he said to Levin. He indicated his constituency was for tuition rights, guest worker rights etc.

He better come up to speed on how the welfare state incentivises immigration and stop with this 10th Amendment stuff or he's finished.

36 posted on 09/05/2011 5:31:25 AM PDT by Track9 (Make War!!)
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To: Flintlock

You nailed it right there.


37 posted on 09/05/2011 5:32:58 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: JosephSmithNAW

People need to grasp the concept that we have dozens of democrat seats in congress that are the illegitimate result of illegals in America. After all, congressional numbers are set based on numbers counted.

If there are 30 million illegals in America, its enough to fill more than 50 congressional districts.


38 posted on 09/05/2011 5:34:01 AM PDT by cripplecreek (A vote for Amnesty is a vote for a Permenant Democrat majority. ..Choose well.)
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To: McGavin999

thank you for a reasoned and informed response.


39 posted on 09/05/2011 5:34:20 AM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (where is the Great Santini when we need him??)
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To: JosephSmithNAW

I agree with Perry. We’ve already put up a lot of fencing and we see the result: they climb over it, tunnel under it, cut through it, drive through it. That fence would be broken down two weeks after it was put up. Remember, these drug dealers have money for any kind of vehicle on the planet! They can bulldoze it down.

No, you have to have electronic surveillance and guard towers at frequent intervals along the border to make sure no one is doing that. And if you have to have the electronic surveillance and guard houses, why spend the money twice, if the fence isn’t going to stop anybody?

Illegals who are willing to risk their lives crossing a desert aren’t going to be stopped by a fence. Drug dealers aren’t going to let it stop them either. I wouldn’t let it stop me. The only thing that would stop me is an absolute electronic barrier that would catch anybody who broke the beam of the motion-detector (or whatever other technology was used).

I’m not thrilled with Perry, but you guys who are seeing some kind of massive conspiracy here are making a mistake. It’s just possible the guy is a patriotic American who has more experience with governing a border state than any of us do, and that he knows a more sophisticated barrier than a fence will work.

BTW, our border is a little bit longer than the Israelis’ border and runs through much tougher country. Different situation.


40 posted on 09/05/2011 5:49:46 AM PDT by ottbmare (off-the-track Thoroughbred mare)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma; All
This problem is government generated.

Practically every problem we have is government generated.

DEFUND socialist collectives, foreign and domestic. DISMANTLE/DESTROY (as necessary) totalitarian collectives, foreign and domestic.

It is impossible to introduce into society a greater change and a greater evil than this: the conversion of the law into an instrument of plunder. - Frederic Bastiat 1801-1850

Above all, if you wish to be strong, begin by rooting out every particle of socialism that may have crept into your legislation. This will be no light task. - Frederic Bastiat 1801-1850

41 posted on 09/05/2011 5:52:35 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: PGalt

Bastiat is a very smart fellow.


42 posted on 09/05/2011 5:54:24 AM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: JosephSmithNAW

From: http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1093408
TX governor panders to ‘The Race’

Apparently Texas Governor Rick Perry was assuring La Raza AKA The Race that Arizona’s immigration law would not come to Texas. It seems to me Fox News who I think is promoting Perry doesn’t point out any of Perry’s problems with immigration and pandering to Pro Amnesty Groups like La Raza.

This is the article from Onenewsnow.com:

The head of a grassroots borders enforcement organization says it’s completely inappropriate for Texas Governor Rick Perry to speak to a radical Hispanic organization that supports granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants.

The Republican governor recently addressed a crowd of 1,800 members of the National Council of La Raza, which calls itself the largest Hispanic civil rights organization in the United States. Critics, however, point out that La Raza means “The Race,” and claim the organization is nothing more than a Hispanic supremacist organization. One of those critics is William Gheen, president of Americans for Legal Immigration PAC (ALIPAC).

“It’s completely inappropriate for anybody, much less an elected official, much less a governor of one of our most populous states, to speak to such a racist and Hispanic supremacist group like La Raza,” Gheen contends.

He also has a serious problem with Perry’s statement to the group that he does not support Arizona’s get-tough border enforcement law, which is being challenged by the Obama Justice Department.

“[President Obama] pretends to care about border security, when in actuality he is a servant of the people [and is] responsible for the opening of our borders, responsible for the flood of illegal immigrants, the invasion of our country,” the ALIPAC president laments. “Many of us, myself being one of them, hold him accountable for all the damages that have been caused by illegal immigration because of his faction’s open-borders policies.”

Gheen remarks that it is unfortunate the mainstream media has mostly failed to report on Governor Perry’s criticism of the Arizona law, a measure that polls show most Americans support.


43 posted on 09/05/2011 5:55:41 AM PDT by tarotsailor
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

Bingo! We have a winner.


44 posted on 09/05/2011 5:57:03 AM PDT by Adams (Fight on!)
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To: cripplecreek

So, WHY are they here?


45 posted on 09/05/2011 6:02:41 AM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: McGavin999
you got to have people on the ground."

Your post is nonsense as is Perry's position on the border. That is the position of people who want no border control. It will take BOTH double fencing and adequate personnel to control the southern border. But if you want to do it with personnel alone, here is one knowledgeable person's estimate of what that would take:

Half a Million Troops Could Seal the Southwest Border, Says Border Protection Chief

No president is ever going to put 500,000 troops on the border, or even half of that. 500,000 is 1/3 of our active military. And guess what? The personnel one president might put on the border, the next president can remove from the border and return us to open borders.

People like Perry who pretend the border will ever be controlled by personnel alone are totally disingenuous or totally living in a fantasy world.

Double fencing and adequate border patrol personnel is the only formula that will work and be realistically implemented, and that is the most cost effective. All this other talk is just a backdoor way to say something, but do nothing about improving border control.

46 posted on 09/05/2011 6:03:59 AM PDT by Will88
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To: JosephSmithNAW

Perry will not know what hit him in about 3 weeks when Gov Palin announces!

By that time Perry will have been already exposed, or at least partly


47 posted on 09/05/2011 6:06:46 AM PDT by Friendofgeorge (Sarah Palin 2012 or flippin bust)
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To: JosephSmithNAW

“if you build a 30 foot wall from Brownsville to El Paso the 35 foot ladder business is real good”

I keep reading this line and I’ve got to laugh.

Raise your hands if you think illegals are going to march up to a 30 foot fence with a 35 or 40 foot ladder...

And what happens when you get to the top?

How many do you think are going to jump the equivalent of a 3 story building to the ground?

And if someone says ‘they’ll just pull the ladder over the fence to get down’, then who pulls it back over the fence for the next bunch?

If they all buy ladders, someone is going to get rich opening a business selling used ladders left on the U.S. side of the border.


48 posted on 09/05/2011 6:11:30 AM PDT by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma
Bastiat is a very smart fellow.

Yes, he was. He NAMED the people these smart fellows were talking about...

...That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness...

This problem is government generated.

49 posted on 09/05/2011 6:23:43 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: HarleyD
How come the White House has a fence and is swarming with Secret Service? To keep people out and it works. The Israeli fence also works great. A fence has to have border agents and troops ready for quick response to breaches in the fence

The Texas-Mexico border is mostly a river which makes a fence difficult or impossible in stretches. But still a fence can be erected along most of it. An intensively patrolled fence is the answer. Some blimps up in the sky would also help see the Mexicans coming, trooping up to our border.


50 posted on 09/05/2011 6:24:07 AM PDT by dennisw (nzt - works better if you're already smart)
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