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How Capital Crushed Labor
Townhall ^ | 9/6/2011 | Pat Buchanan

Posted on 09/05/2011 9:49:48 PM PDT by Bratch

Once, it was a Labor Day tradition for Democrats to go to Cadillac Square in Detroit to launch their campaigns in that forge and furnace of American democracy, the greatest industrial center on earth.

Democrats may still honor the tradition. But Detroit is not what she was, not remotely. And neither is America.

Not so long ago, we made all the shoes and clothes we wore, the motorcycles and cars we drove, the radios we listened to, the TV sets we watched, the home and office calculators and computers we used.

No more. Much of what we buy is no longer made by American workers, but by Japanese, Chinese, other Asians, Canadians and Europeans.

"Why don't we make things here anymore?" is the wail.

Answer: We don't make things here anymore because it is cheaper to make them abroad and ship them back.

With an economy of $14 trillion, we may still be the best market in the world to sell into. But we are also among the most expensive markets in the world in which to produce.

Why is that? Again, the answer is simple.

U.S. wages are higher than they are almost anywhere else. Our health, safety and environmental laws are among the most stringent. Our affirmative action demands are the most exacting, except possibly for those of Malaysia and South Africa.

Does the cost of production here in America alone explain the decline in manufacturing and stagnation of workers' wages?

No. For since the Revolution, America has had a standard of living that has been the envy of the world. From the Civil War through the 1920s, as we became the greatest manufacturing power the world had ever seen, our workers enjoyed pay and benefits that were unmatched anywhere.

Yet our exports in those decades were double our imports, and our trade surpluses annually added 4 percent to the gross national product. How did we do it?

We taxed the products of foreign factories and workers and used the revenue to finance the government. We imposed tariffs of up to 40 percent on foreign goods entering our market and used the tariff money to keep taxes low in the United States.

We made foreigners pay a price to get their products into our market and made them pay to help finance our government. We put our own country and people first.

For corporate America, especially industrial America, this was nirvana. They had exclusive free access to our market, and foreign rivals had to pay a stiff fee, a tariff, to get their products in and try to compete with U.S. products in the U.S. market.

What happened to this idea that made America a self-sufficient republic, producing almost all it consumed, a nation that could stay out of the world wars as long as she wished and crush the greatest powers in Europe and Asia in less than four years after she went in?

A new class came to power that looked on tariffs as xenophobic, on economic patriotism as atavistic and on national sovereignty as an antique idea in the new world order it envisioned.

By 1976, editorial writers were talking about a new declaration of interdependence to replace Thomas Jefferson's Declaration of Independence, which was now outdated.

The new idea was to replicate America on a global scale, to throw open the borders of all nations as the borders of the 50 states were open, to abolish all tariffs and trade barriers, and to welcome the free flow of goods and people across all frontiers, thereby creating the One World that statesmen such as Woodrow Wilson and Wendell Willkie had envisioned.

By three decades ago, this globalist ideology had captured both national parties, a product of universities dominated by New Dealers.

But why did corporate America, with its privileged access to the greatest market on earth, go along with sharing that market with its manufacturing rivals from all over the world?

The answer lies in the trade-off corporate America got.

Already established in the U.S. market, corporate America could risk sharing that market if, in return, it could shift its own production out of the United States to countries where the wages were low and regulations were light.

Corporate America could there produce for a fraction of what it cost to produce here. Then these same corporations could ship their foreign-made products back to the USA and pocket the difference in the cost of production. Corporate stock prices would soar, as would corporate salaries -- and dividends, to make shareholders happy and supportive of a corporate policy of moving out of the USA.

Under globalization, America's investor class could and did get rich by the abandonment of America's working class.

America is in a terminal industrial decline because the interests of corporate America now clash directly with the interests of working America -- and, indeed, with the national interest of the United States.

And both parties are either oblivious to or indifferent of what is happening to their country.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: buchanan; capitalism; economics; labor; laborday; patbuchanan; tariff; tariffs; unions
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Agree? Disagree?
1 posted on 09/05/2011 9:49:53 PM PDT by Bratch
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To: Bratch

Tariffs are not the answer. The answer is to get rid of labor cartels, excessive requlations, taxation, and government control. Tariffs will just increase prices, give labor cartels more power, and trigger a global trade war reducting economic activity world wide.


2 posted on 09/05/2011 9:56:49 PM PDT by businessprofessor
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To: Bratch

Unions and the minimum wage continue to impede America’s rightful place as the world’s supreme economic power.


3 posted on 09/05/2011 9:59:58 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: Bratch

Disagree.

http://cafehayek.com/2011/08/quotation-of-the-day-40.html

There is much more about free trade vs protectionism at the Cafe Hayek blog.

The only thing that forced American auto companies to improve their product was competition from abroad. Competition did not hurt the auto industry; unions did.


4 posted on 09/05/2011 10:01:08 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: Bratch
There is a big omission here. We were number one where there was nobody else producing anything. It's easy for the one-eyed man to be king among a world of blind people. It isn't that way anymore. Others are capable of producing products. Our "standards" and regulations have disadvantaged manufacturing in the U.S. compared to other places. It is too expensive and too over regulated to be attractive. Not to mention heavily taxed. The big government socialist safety demands too much. The days of blue collar manufacturing all essentially over for the U.S. Unions, government and anti-capitalist environmentalists have poisoned the well.
5 posted on 09/05/2011 10:01:16 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Bratch

All I’ll say is if import tariffs are raised drastically you will soon have a global depression that will make today look like the good old days.


6 posted on 09/05/2011 10:01:34 PM PDT by DB
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To: Bratch
Industrialization and low skilled manufacturing labor is an outdated concept. The currency of tomorrow is software. It is software that rules the world and runs the world. Software runs banks, airplanes, the military, the stock market, and consumers. And in this new frontier of global economy, America is by far number 1. No one else is even close.

Apple, Google, Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, Facebook are all software companies, and employ hundreds of thousands of American software engineers. Intel is trying hard to become a software company.

Tell Americans jocks to put down their wrenches and shovels, and toss away outdated visions of muscle-fueled manufacturing greatness. Ask them to sit in front of a keyboard and learn OOP and C++. The future is theirs.

7 posted on 09/05/2011 10:01:56 PM PDT by nwrep
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To: Bratch

Very Buchananish - but he has some core concepts about right.

The goals of corporate America are not in line with those of blue collar America.

As a general principle for recovery - would be a good baseline to start with - aligning the goals of citizens.

Of course - he described conditions which ARE constitutional, and ARE NOT under the control of the government - while ignoring the insanely large growth of the Gov - Fed and State - that is largely un-constitutional, and IS the responsibility of the government.

I would bet - if we went back to core concepts of Constitution, we would magically find out that in the process, labor and capital also came back into line.

For example - if we reduce all of the red tape and confusion the gov is responsible for - a lot of business starts to look good in the US. Look at Boeing and South Carolina issue - perfect example (if easy).

In other words - he is addressing priority 2.


8 posted on 09/05/2011 10:02:16 PM PDT by Eldon Tyrell
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To: Bratch
People exist to serve the economy. The economy exists to provide shareholder value.

Remember: anytime you hear someone use the phrase "shareholder value" positively in a sentence then you know that you are listening to an oracle of wisdom and intelligence.

Please hush up and listen further to tips on how you can properly invest your 401-k funds for retirement.

Oh yes...

... and they're not building any more land!

9 posted on 09/05/2011 10:04:08 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: businessprofessor
There is also another inconvenient fact to those who say we don't manufacturing anything anymore.

We are still the number one manufacturer in the world. That's not to say there aren't serious problems but facts are facts.

10 posted on 09/05/2011 10:05:18 PM PDT by DB
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To: nwrep; All

Oh boy, here we go.

“Industrialization and low skilled manufacturing labor is an outdated concept.”

Guess no one ever told the Chinese that. When are boneheads ever going to realize that there are just some people who can’t do anything except dig ditches and tighten bolts on an assembly line?


11 posted on 09/05/2011 10:05:40 PM PDT by Strk321
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To: Bratch

I doubt the ‘Bill of Rights’ would ever pass in this day and age. The communists RATS would never allow it.


12 posted on 09/05/2011 10:06:54 PM PDT by rawhide
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To: Bratch

Buchanan is correct in most things, just not the religion that is at fault. Self-deception is his fault.


13 posted on 09/05/2011 10:07:21 PM PDT by TwoSwords (Has anyone seen my suspension of disbelief pills?)
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To: Bratch
Clearly, dirt cheap low wage foreign labor won out....

But it wasn't enough for the fatcorps and big biz owners, so they bribed and bankrolled the politicians to flood America with tens of millions of low wage illegal aliens.

All this while the American private sector workers twist in the winds.

Profits, regardless of consequences.

14 posted on 09/05/2011 10:08:48 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Bratch
U.S. wages are higher than they are almost anywhere else.

Direct comparison are tough, but US wages aren't ridiculously high compared to many other countries.

http://www.worldsalaries.org/manufacturing.shtml

15 posted on 09/05/2011 10:08:52 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Bratch
U.S. wages are higher than they are almost anywhere else.

Direct comparison are tough, but US wages aren't ridiculously high compared to many other countries.

http://www.worldsalaries.org/manufacturing.shtml

16 posted on 09/05/2011 10:09:06 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: nwrep
...learn OOP and C++

Bjarne Stroustrup (inventor of C++) is an Aggie, BTW. To be fair to tu, they had another notable name on their roster. Yes, the late Edsger Dijkstra (goto is evil) was a teasip. :-)

17 posted on 09/05/2011 10:09:27 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: DB

These are the good old days! Believe it, my friend.


18 posted on 09/05/2011 10:11:45 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: nwrep

lol thanks for the laugh. Let me guess. You are in the software biz?


19 posted on 09/05/2011 10:14:18 PM PDT by dennisw (nzt - works better if you're already smart)
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To: Bratch
Corporate America could there produce for a fraction of what it cost to produce here. Then these same corporations could ship their foreign-made products back to the USA and pocket the difference in the cost of production.

This article is definitely a target-rich environment, so I'm going to pack it in for the night with one final comment.

Pat's idea here works if one company does this and thereby gains a competitive advantage. It doesn't work if all companies do it, continue to compete with each other and none has a competitive advantage. Any company that artificially inflates its managerial salaries and dividends will be crushed by competitors who don't and can therefore undercut its price.

If fact, most companies that shift production overseas are forced to do so by competitive pressures and don't necessarily make more money by doing so. Their cost of production may be lower, but then so is their sales price.

20 posted on 09/05/2011 10:14:21 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Bratch
As the finances of the world collapse; the rebirth of nationalism and tariffs will lumber thru the sphere.

As we speak the EU is falling down. Some argue for a United States of Europe, without sovereignty.

Countries can't prosper when their Gov't doesn't look after its own populace.

The WSJ chants of 'there shall be open borders' wont win any acclaim on FR.

21 posted on 09/05/2011 10:16:43 PM PDT by Palter (Celebrate diversity .22, .223, .25, 9mm, .32 .357, 10mm, .44, .45, .500)
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To: businessprofessor

Free trade is for chumps and losers. China does just fine with tariffs and barriers to entry. So does Japan, Taiwan and Korea. Tariffs have worked out great for America in our past and we can do it again.


22 posted on 09/05/2011 10:17:01 PM PDT by dennisw (nzt - works better if you're already smart)
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To: nwrep

C++ ? C++ ? It was eclipsed by Java, and Java is ancient history. It’s all apps now. Who programs? What do they program in? I don’t even know!

I mean, what was “Angry Birds” programmed in? Tell me it was C++ ! Ha, could be for all I know.


23 posted on 09/05/2011 10:17:19 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: re_nortex

“Yes, the late Edsger Dijkstra (goto is evil) was a teasip.”

And despite his work in computer science, Dijkstra didn’t actually use one until a few years before his death, and only for a few basic tasks like e-mail.


24 posted on 09/05/2011 10:18:36 PM PDT by Strk321
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To: Strk321
there are just some people who can’t do anything except dig ditches and tighten bolts on an assembly line?

Losers will always exist, and we need people to flip burgers and work at Big-O tires too. But one should not design the working population around loser jobs. We need to emphasize high talent, high IP skills.

25 posted on 09/05/2011 10:21:54 PM PDT by nwrep
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To: dr_lew
Who programs? What do they program in? I don’t even know!

A lot of scripting languages are used for rapid development (FR uses a lot of Perl). Much of of the web runs on PHP and JavaScript as well as variants of those.

Still those high-level languages have to be written in something and that something is often C++ or even C. The operating systems themselves are written in some combination of C, C++ and assembly for the hardware-specific code.

26 posted on 09/05/2011 10:22:24 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: nwrep

It follows that factory work nowadays requires more technical skill than in olden times. Same with the military. You need at least a GED to serve in the US armed forces now. It’s not like the Civil War where you take the boy off the farm and hand him a musket.


27 posted on 09/05/2011 10:24:30 PM PDT by Strk321
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To: nwrep

Not everybody should be a software engineer or an executive. We have a tremendous shortage of CNC operators, plumbers, electricians and other journeymen - - the schools could help if they would wake up to the need.

They don’t need to put down their wrenches and shovels, they need to turn off their TV.


28 posted on 09/05/2011 10:24:41 PM PDT by Loud Mime (Democrats: debt, dependence and derision)
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To: Bratch
Interesting. One of the things that strikes me as driving this is a change in the way people invest, including Wall Street. Roll back 50 years, and people were buying shares for the dividend. Not for immediate sale should the share price tick up a few points. They were in it for the long term. Every time we get the "get rich quick" crowd playing the markets, there is a bubble and a collapse - all the way back to John Law and the Mississipi Bubble.

Stir in overzealous government regulation and you strangle the most fundamental aspect of the economy - actual production of physical goods.

The mantra here in the UK is that now we are a "service economy." Servicing who or what is never stated, but it is certainly not myself, my neighbors or my friends. None of us have money!

The core economic value of a country is what it physically produces, and the production value per capita. Did you know, for example, that the UK (yeah, I live here, so I use it as an example) cannot actually feed itself any more? What sort of country outsources food production? That is just begging to be held hostage by any Tom Dick or Harry who fancies it. And why? Because the bottom line for supermarkets, and their shareholders is an ever increaasing share price and profit.

29 posted on 09/05/2011 10:24:41 PM PDT by EnglishCon
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To: Strk321

Any monkey can get a GED. And with the level of factory automation today, any monkey can press a button to keep the production lots moving. Ergo, factory work (of almost any kind) will continue to pay low, as it should.


30 posted on 09/05/2011 10:28:27 PM PDT by nwrep
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To: Loud Mime
Not everybody should be a software engineer or an executive.

I respectfully disagree. All need to aim high. Not all can reach it, but one must try. Unfortunately, today, American boys want to be jocks, and girls want to be sluts. We are raising a generations of arrogant ignoramuses.

I think we can start by de-emphasizing useless majors like Womens Studies, AA Studies, and Communications.

31 posted on 09/05/2011 10:35:10 PM PDT by nwrep
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To: nwrep

“I respectfully disagree. All need to aim high. Not all can reach it, but one must try.”

And if you don’t, you still need to do something productive and not become a welfare leech.

“I think we can start by de-emphasizing useless majors like Womens Studies, AA Studies, and Communications.”

101%


32 posted on 09/05/2011 10:37:04 PM PDT by Strk321
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To: Bratch

As always, Buchanan nails the truth.


33 posted on 09/05/2011 10:38:23 PM PDT by WilliamHouston
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To: nwrep
Losers will always exist, and we need people to flip burgers and work at Big-O tires too. But one should not design the working population around loser jobs.

The average IQ in Mexico is only 90. And it's not the higher part of the bell curve that is walking across the border.

The average IQ of the single women (girls, in many cases) whom the government pays to go to nightclubs and get pregnant by various men is at the lowest rung of a very low scale.

These are growth segments of our population. They are not going to be software engineers.

34 posted on 09/05/2011 10:38:31 PM PDT by Meet the New Boss
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To: Pining_4_TX

Yeah, America is on the verge of a Depression ... GO FREE TRADE!


35 posted on 09/05/2011 10:39:22 PM PDT by WilliamHouston
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To: Strk321

Yep.

Funny how everything in Wal-Mart is made in China, Japan, Guatemala or some place like that. But don’t worry, Wall Street has invented “credit default swaps” and “sub-prime mortgages,” the financial instruments of the future!


36 posted on 09/05/2011 10:41:25 PM PDT by WilliamHouston
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To: WilliamHouston

The welfare class are the people who should be doing those jobs, but aren’t because they have no motivation to.


37 posted on 09/05/2011 10:44:17 PM PDT by Strk321
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To: WilliamHouston
Tens of millions of Americans homeless, jobless, the dollar becoming worthless, were forced to bail out big biz and wall street with trillions in tax dollars, while big biz sends hundreds of thousands of jobs off shore for dirt cheap labor...That wasn't enough though. The fatcorps and big biz owners bribed and bankrolled the politicians to keep the boarders wide open and flooded America with tens of millions of low wage illegal aliens.

We're surrounded by sellouts and traitors right here in America, who could care less about Americans or our country. Profits regardless of consequences.

38 posted on 09/05/2011 10:45:46 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: nwrep

I disagree.

(1) The currency of tomorrow ... like the currency of the Western Roman Empire in the sixth century ... is brute force.

(2) How many people work for YouTube, Facebook, Google, etc?

(3) There isn’t going to be a globalized economy 10 to 20 years from now. Just because globalization has been a fad since the demise of the USSR doesn’t mean it is something that will go on forever.

(4) Yes, these companies have hired plenty of foreigners and lobby Congress to bring in ever more foreigners. So what?

(5) This problem will correct itself within the next twenty years ... the zero sum economy, the post-growth economy, the brute force world ... which we recently saw on display in Britain.


39 posted on 09/05/2011 10:49:23 PM PDT by WilliamHouston
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To: businessprofessor

Tariffs are a tax, and their effect on an economy has to be seen in light of total taxation. There is a tax rate at which income of government is optimized (Laffer curve peak). Assuming the tax rate to be optimal now (which it may not be, but for sake of argument suppose it is) then one could push tariffs up if in compensation one pushed other taxes down, and end up with no net impact on the economy.

There is something to be said for national self sufficiency helping national security.


40 posted on 09/05/2011 10:59:08 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: Strk321

The welfare state has created generations of dysfunction and dependency and overpopulation under its umbrella.

Here’s the scary part of the welfare state: the other side of the dependency mountain.

(1) Countries like Haiti aren’t going to “adapt” to the end of Western charity. Just imagine what is going to happen to Black Africa when there are no more European liberals around to dump charity on that continent.

Is the piracy we see in Somalia any indication?

(2) Here in America, the dependents of the welfare state are going to “adapt” to the end of the welfare state through the mechanism of the gang, through the “flash mob,” through stealing and using force to take from others, and using guns to shoot people and rob businesses ... the familiar form of barbarism.

Liberals have spent the past 50 years destroying the family, destroying the community, destroying tradition, destroying character, destroying the nation in the name of “progress” ... now comes the next 50 years of the consequences.

What do you think the Goths and the Vandals and the Vikings were? They were essentially migrating flash mobs of barbarians who were pushed out of Northern Europe for various reasons.

(3) Of course as Wall Street and Washington, who are in league with the European central bankers, finish off the American economy and plunge the world into what will first appear to be a “depression” ... THEN we get to see how “diversity” and “multiculturalism” and “interdependence” and “tolerance” really work under stress.


41 posted on 09/05/2011 11:00:15 PM PDT by WilliamHouston
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To: WilliamHouston
(3) There isn’t going to be a globalized economy 10 to 20 years from now. Just because globalization has been a fad since the demise of the USSR doesn’t mean it is something that will go on forever.

A fad? You are predicting an 80% crash in the human population here.

42 posted on 09/05/2011 11:01:26 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: dr_lew

When you need to be close to the hardware, because you have a heavily computation bound task, it’s hard to beat C and subsets of C++ (full C++ is a pig in the way it allocates/deallocates arrays on the heap) — unless you go to assembler. Angry Birds doesn’t need to produce 3-dimensional graphics, so it would be happy enough in Java.


43 posted on 09/05/2011 11:09:35 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: dr_lew

There aren’t many new ideas in the world.

“Globalization” is hardly a new idea. It has been tried many times before. This is only the most extreme example of globalization in world history.

Suppose you live in a small town in Tennessee. You spend most of your time buying what you need at Wal-Mart. Where does it come from?

Most of the manufactured junk seems to come from China, Japan, South Korea, Thailand and so forth. The textiles come from Haiti, Guatemala, Honduras and so on.

The capitalists then beat their chests and brag about the “superior” system they have created. Yeah, but it comes at the tremendous cost: the cost of being dependent upon vaguely hostile foreigners who live far away, the cost of losing the know how to produce things nearby, the extraordinary cost of vulnerability in some kind of crisis.

Again, we have become more dependent upon foreigners for literally everything: not just the manufactured crap, which we could produce here if we wanted, but dependent upon the energy reserves of foreign countries, dependent upon foreigners to finance our debt addled “post-reality” lifestyle, increasingly dependent upon foreigners to come here and prop up the higher sectors of our economy.

Americans sheepishly go to the gas station and fill up with regular unleaded at Citgo. They go to the supermarket to buy food that is shipped in from god knows where. They invest their deposits in banks which does god knows what with them. They go to the Wal-Mart to buy stuff that comes from vast distances.

Let’s see how long it works! Not long, I bet. And when that system unravels, it will produce a very familiar type of chaos.


44 posted on 09/05/2011 11:16:36 PM PDT by WilliamHouston
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To: HiTech RedNeck; re_nortex
... it’s hard to beat C ...

Say no more, say no more :-) Thanks for the responses.

45 posted on 09/05/2011 11:21:52 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: Bratch

Great screed. Look up Smoot Hawley. How’d that work out?


46 posted on 09/05/2011 11:26:15 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: nwrep
Industrialization and low skilled manufacturing labor is an outdated concept. The currency of tomorrow is software. It is software that rules the world and runs the world. Software runs banks, airplanes, the military, the stock market, and consumers. And in this new frontier of global economy, America is by far number 1. No one else is even close.
Apple, Google, Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, Facebook are all software companies, and employ hundreds of thousands of American software engineers. Intel is trying hard to become a software company.

Tell Americans jocks to put down their wrenches and shovels, and toss away outdated visions of muscle-fueled manufacturing greatness. Ask them to sit in front of a keyboard and learn OOP and C++. The future is theirs.


Software writing and verification is actually the easiest to outsource to foreign countries. All it takes is a high speed data line.

I worked with US CAD companies that wrote and checked code on a 24 hour basis. Three separate teams working in three time zones - US West coast - France - India. The code modules just kept getting passed around the world according to daylight working hours.

The higher level design concepts may be US, but the actual bodies/workers writing the code can easily be world-wide.

Corporations get a cost benefit with lower foreign wages as well as a time-to-market benefit.

47 posted on 09/05/2011 11:28:14 PM PDT by az_gila
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To: WilliamHouston

Very little if anything that we do is confined by our realm of personal experience.

For example, how do you know what the constitutions says? How do you know what, for example, Jefferson thought, and Washington thought, etc.

You probably read a book written by a constitutional expert.

If you do have a copy of the constitution and have read it how, do you know that the copy you have is the correct one, what is the provenance?

Skepticism is healthy, and I understand what you are saying here, but this stop and go is very slow. At some point you have to ask yourself the question, is this the best way of going about and doing things?

Yes, I trust my banker. Yes I trust the grocer and the owner of the gas store not to cheat me, or to make me sick. I make about 10 decisions every day to trust people, because I simply have no choice.


48 posted on 09/05/2011 11:32:39 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: Bratch

“Not so long ago, we made all the shoes and clothes we wore, the motorcycles and cars we drove, the radios we listened to, the TV sets we watched, the home and office calculators and computers we used. “

I guess ole Pat never heard of Gucci, Chanel, BSA, Triumph, Rolls Royce, or Jaguar. Hell, Isotta Fraschini was a hot import in the 1920’s. VW’s have been coming in since shortly after WWII. Radios and TV’s from Asia have been imported to the U.S. for 60 years. The best watches were from Switzerland.

How about we don’t exaggerate there Pat?


49 posted on 09/05/2011 11:36:25 PM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: EnglishCon

Uh, plenty of nations outsource food production to large countries with low population density.

Places, like, I dunno? Iowa?


50 posted on 09/05/2011 11:36:51 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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