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Bravo, Rick Perry: ‘Ponzi Scheme’ Talk Is Leadership
Pajamas Media ^ | September 9th, 2011 | Kyle-Anne Shiver

Posted on 09/09/2011 8:11:32 AM PDT by shield

According to the commentariat, Governor Rick Perry has stepped into a pile of electoral cow manure. Perry had the unrivaled gall to tell the truth about Social Security — that the program is, by design, a Ponzi scheme. As President Eloquent might say, the talking heads are “all wee-weed up.”

Personally, I’d like to give Rick Perry a medal for courage and a laurel wreath for leadership. He has signaled his intention to speak truth boldly in terms real people can understand.

Of course, Social Security is essentially a Ponzi scheme, fully dependent upon adequate numbers of new “investors” (workers) to pay off prior “investors” (retirees). But this week, Reason delineated three major Social Security facts that make it far worse than a Ponzi scheme, and audaciously added that Rick Perry was “soft-pedaling” his rhetoric on the subject. From Reason:

One, a Ponzi scheme collects money from new investors and uses it to pay previous investors — minus a fee. But Social Security collects money from new investors, uses some of it to pay previous investors, and spends the surplus on programs for politically favored groups — minus the cost of supporting a massive bureaucracy. Over the years, trillions of dollars have been spent on these groups and bureaucrats.

Two, participation in Ponzi schemes is voluntary. Not so with Social Security. The government automatically withholds payroll taxes and “invests” them for you.

Three: When a Ponzi scheme can’t con new investors in sufficient numbers to pay the previous investors, it collapses. But when Social Security runs low on investors — also called poor working stiffs — it raises taxes.

(Excerpt) Read more at pajamasmedia.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: perry; ponzischeme; presidentperry
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1 posted on 09/09/2011 8:11:35 AM PDT by shield
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; RoosterRedux; jonrick46; deepbluesea; RockinRight; TexMom7; potlatch; ...
Perry Ping....

IF you'd rather NOT be pinged FReepmail me.

IF you'd like to be added FReepmail me. Thanks.

2 posted on 09/09/2011 8:12:19 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: shield

I second the motion:

Bravo, Rick Perry.


3 posted on 09/09/2011 8:15:08 AM PDT by samtheman (Palin. In your heart you know she's right.)
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To: shield

Amen. I think most of us are ready to be treated like grown ups now.


4 posted on 09/09/2011 8:15:44 AM PDT by thefoundersrock
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To: samtheman
"But this is 2011, not 1967. The “greatest Ponzi scheme ever devised” hit a societal sexual revolution that has left Keynesians’ rose-colored glasses smeared with demographic raw eggs.

When Rick Perry has the gumption to responsibly point this out in public, we ought to be sending the guy thank you notes for clarity and leadership."

5 posted on 09/09/2011 8:16:31 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: shield

Right it’s time to end this Ponzi scheme and tell the young people to step up and care for their retired and ill parents. They will have to live with them like the days before SS. And their spouse’s parents too. Can’t forget them. After they pay off their student loan, they need to save enough for a McMansion as an old age home. After a while, Pro life people will be wondering why the growing interest in pulling the plug on the useless and all the money that would save. But there is still another group thinking that something called SS like they used to have may be a good idea again.


6 posted on 09/09/2011 8:20:34 AM PDT by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory")
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To: shield

Actually the “greatest Ponzi scheme ever devised” hit a wall of 50 million abortions.

If those executions hadn’t taken place, SS would be in a lot better shape.


7 posted on 09/09/2011 8:20:57 AM PDT by samtheman (Palin. In your heart you know she's right.)
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To: shield

“When Rick Perry has the gumption to responsibly point this out in public, we ought to be sending the guy thank you notes for clarity and leadership.”

Perry has everything to gain and NOTHING to lose by remaining consistent in his statement about this.

I am sure seniors are beyond being manipulated and scared out ot their wits by Liberals, as in the past...THAT said-much more should be done to assure this does not become the dealbreaker for changes to SSS


8 posted on 09/09/2011 8:23:58 AM PDT by SMARTY (A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers.)
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To: samtheman
That's why there are ‘DEATH PANELS’ in Barry's deathcare.

Actually, abortions killed/murdered productive workers to pay for the Ponzi Scheme.

9 posted on 09/09/2011 8:25:47 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: samtheman

Amen! Bravo Rick Perry! and THANK YOU!


10 posted on 09/09/2011 8:27:04 AM PDT by pgkdan (Perry/Cain 2012)
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To: shield

Social security is not a Ponzi scheme and Perry shouldn’t have gone there.


11 posted on 09/09/2011 8:27:41 AM PDT by RC one (Voting isn't a simple act of civic duty anymore, it's a complex act of civil war.)
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To: shield
The American people are ready to hear this info. It is perfect timing for Perry now.

However, I hope he will be following this last debate and our country's again-interested focus on this issue from this past debate with understandable info as to some things we could expect as positive changes, ie a new plan for younger citizens, grandfathering older citizens, etc. Perry has a lot of folk, especially those under 40 or so and especially those in their 20s and 30s who know Perry is right on the mark. He can pick up those voters, but he'll have BETTER and more enthusiastic support if he provides some basic principles of what direction we could be going in the future.

Fear doesn't come from change as much as it does from not knowing what those changes might have to or could be.

By the way, is this where Perry gets his thoughts on Social Security being unconstitutional?

Two, participation in Ponzi schemes is voluntary. Not so with Social Security. The government automatically withholds payroll taxes and “invests” them for you.

Is this the thought? Just as Obamacare FORCES all individuals to purchase something, the government is forcing all individuals to, in effect, purchase an item, that being a specific retirement plan from the government.

Just wondering if that is where Perry's thoughts are coming from on that.

Thanks for any insight.

12 posted on 09/09/2011 8:28:31 AM PDT by casinva (Maybe it's time to have some provocative language. (Perry/Rubio 2012))
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To: shield
Actually, abortions killed/murdered productive workers to pay for the Ponzi Scheme.
Exactly.

The Ponzi Scheme would have been solvent for at least another generation without those 50 million executions.

13 posted on 09/09/2011 8:28:38 AM PDT by samtheman (Palin. In your heart you know she's right.)
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To: ex-snook
Right it’s time to end this Ponzi scheme and tell the young people to step up and care for their retired and ill parents. They will have to live with them like the days before SS.

That comment is facetious. You know SS can't be ended...abruptly. But it CAN be fixed and needs to be asap!

14 posted on 09/09/2011 8:28:59 AM PDT by pgkdan (Perry/Cain 2012)
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To: SMARTY

I am thinking just the opposite...NO one will do one little thing about the Ponzi Scheme until we have a senate majority and a Republican in the WH...W wasn’t able with majorities but W didn’t have the mess Perry will be walking into. Changes will have to be made...little choice...


15 posted on 09/09/2011 8:30:09 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: RC one

“Social security is not a Ponzi scheme and Perry shouldn’t have gone there.”

You are kidding, right? LOL!


16 posted on 09/09/2011 8:31:06 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: pgkdan

I like your tagline, Perry/Cain’12, and might switch to it after awhile.

For now, I want to keep mine, and for now I’d rather not say why.

As for the Ponzi Scheme:

I was initially squeamish about this one but now I see the genius of what Rick Perry is doing.

As someone else here in FR posted: it’s called REAL CHANGE.


17 posted on 09/09/2011 8:32:05 AM PDT by samtheman (Palin. In your heart you know she's right.)
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To: SMARTY
I am sure seniors are beyond being manipulated and scared out ot their wits by Liberals, as in the past...THAT said-much more should be done to assure this does not become the dealbreaker for changes to SSS

How many nursing homes, or assisted living facilities are there in this nation? Who do you think helps these people vote? LIBERALS will used, pervert whatever they can to scare whomever they can. Governor Perry needs to be very specific about what needs to change. I am all for changing this system...

How much money does it cost US to fund the Social Security Administration? AND how many people view the 'government' as banking friendly? And what business is it of 'government' to interfere with people saving any portion of their income.

18 posted on 09/09/2011 8:32:09 AM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Dudoight

explain to me how social security is a ponzi scheme.


19 posted on 09/09/2011 8:33:11 AM PDT by RC one (Voting isn't a simple act of civic duty anymore, it's a complex act of civil war.)
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To: samtheman
I agree. SS needs to be fixed but we'll never, ever develop the political will in this country to make the hard choices we need to make if we don't start talking about it and inform the voters just how dire the situation really and truly is. Perry's starting that process.

BTW...I got really angry with W when he introduced a SS reform plan and then let it die without ever even fighting for it in his second term. Now when I watch Rove attack Perry for his comments I know who killed any hopes for reform in Bush'd White House. Keeping Rove around for 8 years was a huge mistake.

20 posted on 09/09/2011 8:36:53 AM PDT by pgkdan (Perry/Cain 2012)
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To: pgkdan

Right it’s time to end this Ponzi scheme and tell the young people to step up and care for their retired and ill parents. They will have to live with them like the days before SS.


“That comment is facetious. You know SS can’t be ended...abruptly. But it CAN be fixed and needs to be asap! “


OK fast forward the date for the young people to step up..


21 posted on 09/09/2011 8:37:55 AM PDT by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory")
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To: shield

I am glad Perry spoke up. It is a Ponzi scheme. Maybe back in the 30s when it was initiated it worked better for many reasons. People didn’t live so long, there weren’t all the other entitlements attached to Social Security like people getting nut checks who never worked a day in their lives, and people were having more kids to replenish the work force. There are quite a few other sociological reasons as well why it won’t work as well. Thank Rick Perry for your brutal honesty.


22 posted on 09/09/2011 8:38:09 AM PDT by brooklyn dave (obama = jimmy carter 100X)
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To: samtheman

That genocidal crime against humanity was and is an act of treason against the United States. Justice will not be done until those government, business, medical, and civic leaders responsible for such an abortion slaughter are brought to trial, conviction, and punishment.


23 posted on 09/09/2011 8:38:55 AM PDT by Carl Vehse
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To: shield

The Commentariat thought it was a jump the shark moment (a Fonzi scheme?), but in fact Perry will get a big boost for courage and boldness on a very controversial issue. This was a big win for Perry and ultimately for all of us.


24 posted on 09/09/2011 8:42:27 AM PDT by HerrBlucher ("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." G.K. Chesterton)
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To: shield

The Commentariat thought it was a jump the shark moment (a Fonzi scheme?), but in fact Perry will get a big boost for courage and boldness on a very controversial issue. This was a big win for Perry and ultimately for all of us.


25 posted on 09/09/2011 8:42:27 AM PDT by HerrBlucher ("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Carl Vehse

It was and is a continuing genocidal crime against humanity.


26 posted on 09/09/2011 8:42:58 AM PDT by samtheman (Palin. In your heart you know she's right.)
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To: Just mythoughts

You are right.

The changes I’d like to see with SS are:

• GREATER accountability in the management of funds
• NO politicians using SS funds for things outside what the SS funds were originally intended
• Taxpayers’ options OTHER than the SS system

Given the mess it is now, I don’t think any of these suggestions are unreasonable.


27 posted on 09/09/2011 8:43:33 AM PDT by SMARTY (A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers.)
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To: RC one

And this is because.....?


28 posted on 09/09/2011 8:43:48 AM PDT by milagro
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To: RC one

The article does a fair job of explaining it.


29 posted on 09/09/2011 8:43:48 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: casinva
First off, the was a campaign strategy by Perry and his team. Just the word Ponzi Scheme has gotten the attention they were after. Those lefty moderators were pulled into their trap as Mitt was. This is how Perry always campaigns.

You know he lays this out in his book 'Fed Up'...he looks at the 3 counties in Texas that elected the Chilean model. Those retirees have such a nice monthly income...this is what he will do, if elected President. W tried to with Republican majorities but did not have the mess Perry will walk into which will now give them no choice. Workers 55+ will receive what they'd have received with SS and the elderly will continue to receive their same SS they are depending on...workers 55 and under will have the ability to choose the Chilean type system.

30 posted on 09/09/2011 8:44:44 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: ex-snook
OK fast forward the date for the young people to step up..

That date will be NEVER unless we start the talk now. Perry's doing that. Hell, the whole country is talking about it now. For my money, that's a good thing. It's a start.

31 posted on 09/09/2011 8:46:42 AM PDT by pgkdan (Perry/Cain 2012)
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To: HerrBlucher
jump the shark moment (a Fonzi scheme?),

Very very clever!!! I love it!!

32 posted on 09/09/2011 8:47:15 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: Dudoight

There are l000’s and 1000’s of people who disagree with you. It is nothing more than a Ponzi Scheme that will self destruct in a short period of time.


33 posted on 09/09/2011 8:52:24 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: RC one
Social security is not a Ponzi scheme and Perry shouldn’t have gone there.

??!! From the article ....

Reason delineated three major Social Security facts that make it [not only a] Ponzi scheme ... but far worse.

One, a Ponzi scheme collects money from new investors and uses it to pay previous investors — minus a fee. But Social Security collects money from new investors, uses some of it to pay previous investors, and spends the surplus on programs for politically favored groups — minus the cost of supporting a massive bureaucracy. Over the years, trillions of dollars have been spent on these groups and bureaucrats.

Two, participation in Ponzi schemes is voluntary. Not so with Social Security. The government automatically withholds payroll taxes and “invests” them for you.

Three: When a Ponzi scheme can’t con new investors in sufficient numbers to pay the previous investors, it collapses. But when Social Security runs low on investors — also called poor working stiffs — it raises taxes.

34 posted on 09/09/2011 8:54:53 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: RC one

There are l000’s and 1000’s of people who disagree with you. It is nothing more than a Ponzi Scheme that will self destruct in a short period of time.


35 posted on 09/09/2011 8:57:39 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: samtheman
Actually the “greatest Ponzi scheme ever devised” hit a wall of 50 million abortions. If those executions hadn’t taken place, SS would be in a lot better shape.

Why wouldn't this also be an argument for open borders? If we're just after warm bodies we've got 50 million and more over that time period in immigrants.

It's a poor utilitarian argument against abortion. Abortion arguments need to be "we don't because it's wrong", not a specious argument to save a failed socialist program.

36 posted on 09/09/2011 8:59:47 AM PDT by triumphant values
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To: jospehm20
The article is BS covered with a thin veneer of truth and was written by a rhino loving Perry apologist.
37 posted on 09/09/2011 9:02:39 AM PDT by RC one (Voting isn't a simple act of civic duty anymore, it's a complex act of civil war.)
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To: RC one

The difference is that SS was created with the best of intentions, whereas a Ponzi is set up with criminal intentions.

However, the principal that new contributor’s funds pay off the older ‘investors’ is the same. As long as you have enough $ coming in you can manage to cover the out going $.

Right now SS is billions of $ underfunded.

The bonds in the Social Security trust fund are counted both as an asset of the trust fund and as a liability, since they are part of the total federal debt.

Read more: http://moneywatch.bnet.com/retirement-planning/blog/money-life/the-social-security-trust-fund-myth/2944/#ixzz1XTIvS2mQ

SS is not only supplying retirement checks but disability funds and funds for children and widows who have never contributed, however qualify as long as they were wife or child of someone who did contribute.


38 posted on 09/09/2011 9:03:55 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: triumphant values

I agree with part of what you said, but not all.

Opening the borders isn’t the same thing as stopping the abortion holocaust, not by a long-shot, even if you’re only talking about the effect on SS. Opening the borders may have some positive affect on SS, but also a lot of negative. A lot of people go on welfare and those funds come out of the common pot, as does SS, all pretense aside.

And yes, abortion is wrong because it is wrong, not because it hurts the economics of society.

But still, it does hurt the economics of society, and pretending it doesn’t, or not discussing the fact that it does, doesn’t help anybody, including and especially the unborn.


39 posted on 09/09/2011 9:05:26 AM PDT by samtheman (Palin. In your heart you know she's right.)
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To: RC one

“Social security is not a Ponzi scheme and Perry shouldn’t have gone there.”

Actually it’s worse than a Ponzi scheme, but no one serious about getting elected should “go there”.


40 posted on 09/09/2011 9:06:36 AM PDT by moehoward
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To: RC one
rhino loving Perry apologist

Behave yourself, please.

41 posted on 09/09/2011 9:10:00 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: shield

I agree with you that it IS a Ponzi scheme. Read my post #38. I was responding to RC (I think) and asking he/she was joking.

Bush ran away from fixing SS...no one else in our array of GOP candidates will touch it. Only Perry has the gumption to face it down.


42 posted on 09/09/2011 9:11:01 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: RC one

Whatever, believe what you want. Social Security is a ponzi scheme type fraud and calling people names will probably not change the reality of that.


43 posted on 09/09/2011 9:12:39 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: shield

Thanks for your response.

I still have not ordered the FED Up book. I am anxiously awaiting my husband’s next paycheck! LOL

I do understand Perry has ideas for this. I was just hoping he would provide the general public a glimpse of that model as he heightens the general public’s interest.

But then, I’m not familiar with campaign strategies either - what works, what doesn’t, etc. LOL

Which brings me to this....

I need to make an official announcement! I was thinking about this anyway, and I feel Perry’s respect for the Chilean model as a great example of what could be done with Social Security is a confirmation I need to make my change over to Perry / CAIN!

It was Perry for P all along for me, but my FR tag goes from Perry/Rubio to Perry/Cain to Perry/Santorum, and sometimes that tag had all THREE!

Now, it’s going to be a Perry / Cain wish list for me, dear friend! :)

Here’s why: If Social Security will be a big issue for our next few years, and Rick Perry likes the Chilean model, and I heard Herman Cain speak of the Chilean model in this last debate, then I’m in for Cain!

Herman Cain would add a lot of depth and compliment Rick Perry in SO many other ways too!

OK, I’ve done it! I have changed my tag to Perry / Cain 2012!


44 posted on 09/09/2011 9:13:48 AM PDT by casinva (Maybe it's time to have some provocative language. (PERRY / CAIN 2012)
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To: Dudoight
The difference is that SS was created with the best of intentions...

Not exactly so. Those who engineered it knew the initial tax rates and demographic picture weren't sustainable.

They got an unexpected reprieve with the baby boom, but we've still had 23 Social Security tax increases since it's inception.

45 posted on 09/09/2011 9:23:20 AM PDT by triumphant values
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To: casinva

If anyone is interested (since I just mentioned Cain as a great VP pick for Rick Perry),

Rick Perry and Herman Cain lead in “Positive Intensity Polls” among the GOP.

Excellent info and analysis at the link below.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/149252/Perry-Cain-Widen-Lead-Positive-Intensity-GOP-Field.aspx


46 posted on 09/09/2011 9:25:17 AM PDT by casinva (Maybe it's time to have some provocative language. (PERRY / CAIN 2012)
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To: RC one
Social security is not a Ponzi scheme and Perry shouldn’t have gone there.

Let's leave aside the legal definition of a Ponzi scheme and address the common definition, which is a scheme in which an investor does not receive returns on the money he invested by virtue of the investment increasing in value, but by taking the contributions of new investors and giving it to earlier investors. That types of scheme can only exist as long as there are sufficient new investors into the scheme to continue paying the previous investors. Once that ceases to be true, the system collapses. Now, doesn't that sound exactly like Social Security?

We are at the point now where we are paying existing retirees with current receipts plus borrowing. That can only continue for so long before we either have to reduce benefits, increase taxes or print money.

47 posted on 09/09/2011 9:36:47 AM PDT by CA Conservative (Texan by birth, Californian by circumstance)
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To: RC one
The question, "are you ignorant or dishonest?", has now been answered. Thank you.
48 posted on 09/09/2011 9:56:34 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: casinva

I don’t know where you live...but your local library most likely has it...don’t wait go check it out from your library.


49 posted on 09/09/2011 10:02:13 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: ex-snook
Thank you for recapping the liberal talking points. And you're probably right. We should just continue to let this monstrosity go on and fizzle out on its own so that everyone under 40 who paid into it all their lives has absolutely NOTHING to retire on. Then? Well, their children can " step up and care for their retired and ill parents. They will have to live with them like the days before SS. And their spouse’s parents too. Can’t forget them. After they pay off their student loan, they need to save enough for a McMansion as an old age home. After a while, Pro life people will be wondering why the growing interest in pulling the plug on the useless and all the money that would save."

Everyone! Bend over with heads in the sand!!!
50 posted on 09/09/2011 10:12:21 AM PDT by DRey (Perry/Rubio 2012)
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