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Perry and the Ponzis
National Review Online ^ | September 12, 2011 | Stanley Kurtz

Posted on 09/12/2011 3:14:24 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

Until a half a minute ago, liberals called Social Security a Ponzi scheme, too.

Is Texas governor and Republican presidential candidate Rick Perry a courageous and welcome truth teller for calling Social Security a Ponzi scheme, or is he being needlessly provocative instead? Or maybe you think Perry’s Ponzi comparison is just plain wrong. I favor the truth-teller option, but the debate will surely go on.

In any case, it’s certain that Perry’s Ponzi-scheme claim is in no way original. Not only have a raft of conservatives called Social Security a Ponzi scheme over the years, quite a few very respectable liberals have done so as well. It is clearly wrong either to treat the Ponzi-scheme analogy as unprecedented or to rule it altogether out of legitimate public debate. A historical tour of the use of the Ponzi-scheme metaphor will make the point.

Jonathan Last has already identified a 1967 Newsweek column by liberal economist and Nobel laureate Paul Samuelson as perhaps the earliest use of the Social Security/Ponzi-scheme comparison in public argument. Samuelson was actually drawing on the Ponzi analogy to defend Social Security. His claim was that the perpetual succession of human generations establishes the conditions for a sustainable Ponzi scheme. Regardless of whether Samuelson was the first commentator to use the Ponzi analogy, he has clearly been the most influential. Policy briefs and books churned out by conservative think tanks such as Heritage and Cato have cited Samuelson’s Ponzi column for years. This is likely how the comparison made its way into public debate.

Samuelson’s idea that Social Security could best be understood as an enduring and rational Ponzi scheme grew out of his “overlapping-generations model,” introduced in a seminal 1958 paper. Samuelson’s model implied that public debt in general, and Social Security in particular, could be financed over successive generations without major tax increases. In the 1980s, Samuelson’s overlapping-generations model was seized upon by Keynesian economists to serve as a microeconomic foundation for their favored theories and plans.

The unfortunate weakness of Samuelson’s model is its assumption that a growing economy will produce continual population increase. In an April 1978 follow-up in Newsweek to his original 1967 column, Samuelson acknowledged that demographic reality was disproving this assumption. Samuelson repeated his use of the Ponzi analogy and continued to defend his hopes for Social Security as best he could. While Samuelson hung onto some slim indications in 1977 that U.S. fertility might be on the upswing, it grew increasingly clear to critics that the post–Baby Boom decline in births was not going to be reversed. Increasingly, Samuelson’s Ponzi-scheme analogy was seized upon by those who doubted Social Security’s long-term soundness. Continued


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: economy; perry; perry2012; ponzischeme; retirement
...... In the 1980s, Samuelson’s overlapping-generations model was seized upon by Keynesian economists to serve as a microeconomic foundation for their favored theories and plans.The unfortunate weakness of Samuelson’s model is its assumption that a growing economy will produce continual population increase. .......

**************************************

I miss Joshlyn Elders. She wasn't afraid to speak her liberal mind -- she was a vocal and open book to how LIBERALS view the masses.

So.... the Clinton's had to kick their Attorney General (black female -- OMG! the damage done to identity politics) to the curb.

***************************************

"But I'm saying we are loosing the people who are going to pay my social security. And that bothers me." -- Joycelyn Elders

Joshlyn Elders, Surgeon General of the United States - September 8, 1993 – December 31, 1994

Elders: October 1993 regarding funding for AIDS research and the fact that most of us will probably die:

"We know most of the people that die with heart disease and cancer are our elderly population you know and we all will probably die with something sooner or later and we've been investing certainly in cancer and heart disease and I feel that we should continue, I'm not downplaying that. But I'm saying that we are losing the people that's going to pay my Social Security and that bothers me."

In January 1993, Bill Clinton appointed Joshlyn Elders the United States Surgeon General, making her the first African American and the second woman (following Antonia Novello) to hold the position. [Bill Clinton appointed Elders to be the Director of the Arkansas Department of Health - 1987].

She argued for an exploration of the possibility of drug legalization and backed the distribution of contraceptives in schools. President Clinton stood by Elders, saying that she was misunderstood......

In 1994, she was invited to speak at a United Nations conference on AIDS. She was asked whether it would be appropriate to promote masturbation as a means of preventing young people from engaging in riskier forms of sexual activity, and she replied, "I think that it is part of human sexuality, and perhaps it should be taught." This remark caused great controversy and resulted in Elders losing the support of the White House. White House chief of staff Leon Panetta remarked, "There have been too many areas where the President does not agree with her views. This is just one too many." Elders was fired by President Clinton as a result of the controversy in December 1994.

"Safer guns and safer bullets" probably didn't help her either.

**************************************

The only reason the Left wants to keep us "healthy," and the old and curable alive, is to fund Social Security. So Obama's Universal Health Care (that the Democrats have ruled we must join) is to keep people alive (until of course they cost too much to economically contribute to the rest) -- to sustain enough workers to continue funding (prop up) the system whereby Elites hold power for the continuance of Them through iron-clad control of our money and our lives.

1 posted on 09/12/2011 3:14:27 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: All
Sept 7, 2011: 4 Minute YouTube VIDEO Clip: Perry Fires At Rove & Romney: Social Security Is A "Ponzi Scheme" And A "Monstrous Lie"

Perry Campaign: Remember When Romney Compared Social Security to a Criminal Enterprise? [quote from Romney's book] " What would happen to the bankers responsible for misusing the money? They would go to jail. But what has happened to the people responsible for the looming bankruptcy of Social Security? They keep returning to Congress every two years.” [end quote]

Sept 10, 2011 Mitt flier: Perry 'wants to kill Social Security' (being distributed in Florida)


2 posted on 09/12/2011 3:33:56 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: All
Bachmann prepping to take a swing at Perry >>>... "Bernie Madoff deals with Ponzi schemes, not the grandparents of America," says a Bachmann adviser. "Clearly she feels differently about the value of Social Security than Gov. Perry does. She believes Social Security needs to be saved, that it's an important safety net for Americans who have paid into it all their lives."

York goes on the say Bachmann's camp was unhappy with how few questions she got at last week's Reagan Library debate, and quotes the Bachmann adviser saying she will make clear she disagrees with Perry on Social Security if asked:

"Certainly not," the adviser says. "She strongly disagrees with his position on that, and it's clearly not something that's going to sit well with the people of Florida and Iowa and South Carolina and many of the early states, where there is a large population of seniors who rely heavily on Social Security. For [Perry] to scare them is wrong."<<<

3 posted on 09/12/2011 3:37:45 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: All; shield



4 posted on 09/12/2011 3:38:26 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Whoa. Talk about a surprise ending.

I was thinking, "Hallelujah! Great ad, Rick! Somebody finally has the guts to tell the truth", and then I got to the bottom and saw that it was a Mitt Romney ad.

5 posted on 09/12/2011 3:43:39 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I love the opening comparison. Is Mitt the only person in America who doesn't know Socialist Security is financially unstable?

Yo, Mitt, are you invested in SS?

6 posted on 09/12/2011 3:49:14 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Ah, the magic of lighting.


7 posted on 09/12/2011 3:50:49 AM PDT by hocndoc (http://WingRight.orgI've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.Patrol the border 2 control)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Our historical tour of the claim that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme confirms what we already knew: Rick Perry’s remarks are uncharacteristically bold for a politician, most especially a candidate in the midst of a presidential race. Yet Perry’s Ponzi-scheme claim is in no way unprecedented. On the contrary, the Ponzi comparison has been a staple of conservative warnings about Social Security’s financial soundness for decades. More intriguing, the Ponzi scheme analogy was popularized by a liberal Nobel Laureate economist, who initially offered it as a defense of the system, acknowledging only later that his defense was at least partially flawed. In the decades that followed, many honest liberals have made the Ponzi scheme comparison in the course of calling for systemic reform. Those liberals have bemoaned bipartisan deception and timidity on the Social Security issue, and praised those rare and courageous political souls, such as Alan Simpson, who were willing and able to call a Ponzi scheme by its real name.
--From the article.

Maybe at the next debate Perry should say: "The truth? You want the truth? You can't handle the truth."

8 posted on 09/12/2011 3:52:54 AM PDT by samtheman (Palin. In your heart you know she's right.)
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To: Texas Eagle

Those who want to “save” Social Security” are for the status quo.

Social Security must be phased out (those on it and those coming on it will not be punished for having to adhere to the rules — but those groups should be the beginning of the end of this ponzi scheme). There are not enough “worker bees” to take from, to sustain this — so taxes will go up (add “health care” the Libs have waiting in the wings) and you have an economy that can no longer recover and/or survive.

It’s time to change this. WAY past time to change this.

Gov. Rick Perry it being honest, like the leader of a free country should be.


9 posted on 09/12/2011 3:53:17 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

You would think Rick Perry was the first one to call Social Security a Ponzi Scheme.


10 posted on 09/12/2011 3:55:26 AM PDT by Recon Dad ("Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way..")
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To: Texas Eagle

Interesting logo on that Romney flyer, lower-right. The R almost looks as though it was taken from an Obama campaign logo.


11 posted on 09/12/2011 3:55:37 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Perry can easily combat the critics about his use of the word “ponzi”.

All he has to say is “while I believe Social Security was unconstitutional when set up and resembles any modern ponzi scheme, it was ruled constitutional by the Supreme Court and being that is the case, we have to fix the problems within it to make it solvent for future generations. There are people of working age and of healthy body scamming the system, causing it to go broke. We will find these people scamming the system and deal with them appropriately”.

12 posted on 09/12/2011 3:56:03 AM PDT by tobyhill (A Democrat that doesn't lie would be a lie)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
In 1994, she was invited to speak at a United Nations conference on AIDS. She was asked whether it would be appropriate to promote masturbation as a means of preventing young people from engaging in riskier forms of sexual activity, and she replied, "I think that it is part of human sexuality, and perhaps it should be taught."

The first time since Adam and Eve that anyone thought the need of government schools to teach the act of masturbation was a requirement.

The last argument required against affirmative action, is simply the name joslyn elders.

13 posted on 09/12/2011 3:56:35 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
If Mitt Romney is willing to lie about the condition of something that is inarguably screwed up, what else is he willing to lie about?

Man, I can't wait for his next telemarketer to call.

14 posted on 09/12/2011 3:56:38 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: hocndoc
Ah, the magic of lighting.

LOL

"Evil - Goldwater-like" Gov. Perry = It will be a dark and stormy America.

"Easy on the eyes" Romney = It will be sunshine and lollipops in America.

15 posted on 09/12/2011 3:58:00 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Why do you not rebut the Romney post you put up?

If Rick Perry cannot dislodge the RINO Romney
he has absolutely ZERO chance against Obama.


16 posted on 09/12/2011 3:58:20 AM PDT by Diogenesis ("Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. " Pres. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I like the second comparison as well.

Mitt says any attempt to rein in spending will have to include "entitlement reform".

Gee, Mitt, which entitlement do you think is in need of reforming? And why is it in need of reforming?

17 posted on 09/12/2011 3:59:10 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: bcsco
Interesting logo on that Romney flyer, lower-right.

Note who Romney cites for his information (lower left of flier)---

---"Huffington Post" and "MSNBC Morning Joe."

18 posted on 09/12/2011 4:00:09 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Fact:All of us are going to die. If you die before you’ve contributed enough to the Ponzi Scheme that is Social Security, that means (hopefully) you won’t be drawing upon it either. I don’t expect see anything from it when I retire, in any case.

Fact: There are two kinds of people; those who masturbate and those who lie about it. The teaching (or not) of such however, should be left to parents.

Fact: Drugs are substances only, and actions undertaken upon partaking of such are the responsibility of those who partake, period. We have laws to penalize those who harm others. Just as one who commits robbery or murder because the victim was “X” shouldn’t incur more stringent penalties on the basis of “hate”, neither should the one who partakes in any “prohibited” substance be called to account unless their actions cause direct harm to others in society. It’s all about personal responsibility, folks. “Hate Crimes” legislation doesn’t make sense. Neither does legislation that imprisons fellow citizens solely on the basis of their ingesting substances which are deemed off-limits according to the current War on (some) Drugs as being “too dangerous for availability”, and that being determined via often faulty, special-interest-biased “research” on such. Just as it doesn’t matter what you were “thinking” when you knifed the dude in the parking lot of the 7-11, it doesn’t matter how you were “feeling” when you plowed your car over a curb and into a cluster of Code Pink protesters after a half dozen shots of tequila and a few bowls of premium hydro. Stupid is as stupid does. And merits its just reward.

FJ


19 posted on 09/12/2011 4:00:26 AM PDT by Flotsam_Jetsome (He's "Too Black to Fail")
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To: Texas Eagle
Gee, Mitt, which entitlement do you think is in need of reforming? And why is it in need of reforming?

This is where Perry will wrap RomneyCare around his neck and pull tightly.

20 posted on 09/12/2011 4:01:14 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Flotsam_Jetsome

21 posted on 09/12/2011 4:03:20 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Okay, Mitt, I'll bite.

A)Where does Socialist Security's security come from and who does it go to?

B) How is that different from a Ponzi scheme?

22 posted on 09/12/2011 4:08:33 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: bcsco
Interesting logo on that Romney flyer, lower-right. The R almost looks as though it was taken from an Obama campaign logo.

I was thinking it looks more like the PBS logo. Or a cookie cutter. Which is how good little Progressives view humans.


23 posted on 09/12/2011 4:12:59 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Mitt Romney will make ensure that the promises we make to today's workers are ones we keep..."

Gee, Mitt, just how long do you plan on being President?

24 posted on 09/12/2011 4:16:47 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: Recon Dad; tobyhill
It's good to shove the truth - SOCIAL SECURITY IS A MONSTEROUS LIE - into the public realm and conversation -- and do loud and clear to get attention over the screams of the Left in order to dispel the lies of progressives in office, those who want to be in office and of the Democratic Party compliant MSM.

Things aren't so scary when you identify them and work together on a plan to defeat the beast. Americans MUST have this conversation. MOST Americans WANT this conversation.

After the Perry-Bernake "treat him ugly" comment was hyped by the msm -- within a week, the other "debaters (I guess they heard from their supporters and saw Perry's numbers shoot up) were echoing Gov. Perry (notice Brian Williams didn't have to ask Perry about QE) at the Ronald Reagan Library debate.

25 posted on 09/12/2011 4:18:18 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Texas Eagle
The design is somewhat like the PBS logo, but the colors are close to the Obama logo. Like here...

Photobucket

26 posted on 09/12/2011 4:21:10 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: bcsco
A combination of Urkel and PBS.

Couldn't have picked a better metaphor myself.

27 posted on 09/12/2011 4:22:35 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Somehow, it seems that common sense, asking people to “do the math” ..... or actually doing it for them .... is viewed as an insult, a career ending gaffe, something for which one needs to apologize for.

Perhaps with legislators in Washington who believe a Marine barracks on a Japanese island will capsize the island it has become impossible to underestimate the intelligence of the mean IQ inside the beltway .... or of the electorate for that matter

Is this how it all ends?


28 posted on 09/12/2011 4:27:48 AM PDT by Mobties (RCHN)
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To: Flotsam_Jetsome

That graphic isn’t the one I posted.

I posted the one of a young Obama, wearing a hat smoking.... and it appeared on the thread that way.

But now it appears that it has morphed into a green face.

Not my post to you.


29 posted on 09/12/2011 4:27:56 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Mobties
....Is this how it all ends?

Only if we don't address the truth like adults and Americans and conservatives.

30 posted on 09/12/2011 4:29:38 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Texas Eagle
Couldn't have picked a better metaphor myself.

Photobucket

31 posted on 09/12/2011 4:32:41 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: bcsco

Just heard Pawlenty on “Fox and Friends” say that he’s backing Mitt Romney.


32 posted on 09/12/2011 4:45:48 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

That’s okay. No offense taken, even if offense was meant. ;) I’m disgusted with the hypocrisy also. Here’s to the end of the reign of The Once!


33 posted on 09/12/2011 4:46:07 AM PDT by Flotsam_Jetsome (He's "Too Black to Fail")
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To: Flotsam_Jetsome

Moving along.....

Pawlenty was against RomneyCare before he backed off RomneyCare, then three days after demurring at the debate, “Tim Pawlenty punches back at Romney (on Twitter)” and now Tim has settled nicely into Mitt’s camp as a supporter of RomneyCare and Social Security.


34 posted on 09/12/2011 4:50:59 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Flotsam_Jetsome

And on that note, FRiends might want to check out and weigh in on this American Thinker piece:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/09/obamas_gift_has_stopped_giving.html

Seems some think the 2012 election could turn on such an issue. Then, perhaps not so much.

FJ


35 posted on 09/12/2011 4:55:14 AM PDT by Flotsam_Jetsome (He's "Too Black to Fail")
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

If I have to vote between RomneyCare and ObamaCare, I’ll go with PaulCare, at least in the primaries. In the general election, I’ll go with Bar-O-Soap Care before I’ll go for another four years of ZeroCare.

FJ


36 posted on 09/12/2011 4:57:43 AM PDT by Flotsam_Jetsome (He's "Too Black to Fail")
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To: Flotsam_Jetsome

Wrong link. Swear I haven’t been imbibing. Hic.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/09/the_democrats_2012_victory_plan.html


37 posted on 09/12/2011 5:01:00 AM PDT by Flotsam_Jetsome (He's "Too Black to Fail")
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To: Flotsam_Jetsome
The problem is that Obama struggles to come off empathetic, due to his inherently professorial speaking style. To make up for this shortcoming, Obama often employs a sort of out-loud whisper to give the impression of intense emotion while still speaking quietly.

I was turning the channel and caught the beginning of Obama's "preach" at Ground Zero" (about the first sentence and one half) and moved on. It struck me (again) how shrill and unfeeling he talks. I ponder how Ronald Reagan would have sounded when he addressed the people mourning their loved ones at the memorial.

President Ronald Reagan - Address on the Challenger Disaster

38 posted on 09/12/2011 5:02:51 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Flotsam_Jetsome

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/07/democrats_unveil_the_weapon_of_the_future.html


39 posted on 09/12/2011 5:03:54 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

A great cautionary tale. However, we shouldn’t lose sight that America is inherently center-right, traditionally, and when the prevailing political climate swings too far to the left of the majority’s comfort zone, and especially if it swings way, way to far, and too fast to the left of the majority’s comfort zone (as in a naked attempt at a Marxist takeover), the majority is still armed to the teeth, and the following adage will likely apply:
“There are three things all wise men fear: A sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man. (credit Patrick Rothfuss)
America is that “Gentle Man” and when roused, will defend the principles of the founders quite vigorously.

FJ


40 posted on 09/12/2011 5:19:56 AM PDT by Flotsam_Jetsome (He's "Too Black to Fail")
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; RoosterRedux; jonrick46; deepbluesea; RockinRight; TexMom7; potlatch; ...
Perry Ping....

IF you'd rather NOT be pinged FReepmail me.

IF you'd like to be added FReepmail me. Thanks.

41 posted on 09/12/2011 5:56:15 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: Flotsam_Jetsome

True enough but the “Gentle Man” has become courser — not like the man who spoke to the nation after the Challenger accident — who comforted the nation, celebrated the astronauts and their endeavors (mentioned God) and encouraged children to excel, to follow their example and live their dreams.

It’s different now and we need to wake up those who have forgotten (or were never taught), and explain what losing that “Gentle Man” means to them and the world.


42 posted on 09/12/2011 6:11:14 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: samtheman
Maybe at the next debate Perry should say: "The truth? You want the truth? You can't handle the truth."


43 posted on 09/12/2011 6:14:28 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Rick Perry has said that Social Security must be "fixed." In that, he has finally faced reality.

No one--NO ONE--in government today or who will be elected as a majority in government tomorrow will be able, or even willing, to end Social Security. Anyone trying to do so will be tossed out of office.

It will be finagled, it will be juggled, it will be adjusted, but it will never be ended. The American people will not accept ending SS and will not elect anyone who suggests the same.

Not Rick Perry, not Sarah Palin, not Ron Paul, not Michele Bachmann, not Herman Cain, not Newt Gingrich, not Mark Rubio . . . none of them will ever suggest ending SS.

Social Security has become a part of the American culture and psyche and thus will never be ended.

That is precisely why we must eliminate Obama care NOW. Once a huge entitlement becomes part of the culture and relied upon by a plurality of the population, it can never be undone.
44 posted on 09/12/2011 6:18:46 AM PDT by Sudetenland (There can be no freedom without God--What man gives, man can take away.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
The unfortunate weakness of Samuelson’s model is its assumption that a growing economy will produce continual population increase. In an April 1978 follow-up in Newsweek to his original 1967 column, Samuelson acknowledged that demographic reality was disproving this assumption. Samuelson repeated his use of the Ponzi analogy and continued to defend his hopes for Social Security as best he could. While Samuelson hung onto some slim indications in 1977 that U.S. fertility might be on the upswing, it grew increasingly clear to critics that the post–Baby Boom decline in births was not going to be reversed. Increasingly, Samuelson’s Ponzi-scheme analogy was seized upon by those who doubted Social Security’s long-term soundness.

So, in other words, the leftist 'Save the Earth by killing off it's Human infection' crowd has now doomed Social Security.

Liberals are truly the cause of every disaster in the world.

45 posted on 09/12/2011 6:22:10 AM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Here is an article. I don't believe we are allowed to post USA Today on it's own thread due to USAToday's demands...

Rick Perry: I am going to be honest with the American people

46 posted on 09/12/2011 7:17:29 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Bachmann needs to turn in her Tea Pary membership card.

I want blunt talk and people that will face issues head on.

Instead, it looks like Bachmann has decided to go the “scare the grannys” route and demigogue the issue, which is the formula for never fixing the problem. Sorry, I’ve had enough of that from Democrats and RINOs.


47 posted on 09/12/2011 8:13:32 AM PDT by Brookhaven
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To: Brookhaven

CNN’s just released poll has Bachmann at 4% (down from 10% two weeks ago).


48 posted on 09/12/2011 8:19:15 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: shield

Thank You!


49 posted on 09/12/2011 8:24:27 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

BTTT!


50 posted on 09/12/2011 6:54:28 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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