Skip to comments.McCain: Torture hurt us
Posted on 09/12/2011 8:26:04 AM PDT by rabscuttle385
Sen. John McCain, a critic of President George W. Bush's use of enhanced interrogation techniques in the war on terror, reflected on the issue of torture a decade after the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.
Abu Ghraib and the torture of prisoners hurt us a great deal and did provide a propaganda tool for our enemies including Al Qaeda, the Arizona Republican said on "Fox News Sunday."
Noting that on the 10th anniversary of those attacks he did not want to dwell on his differences with the current and previous administration, McCain applauded both Bush and President Barack Obama for the advancements made in the war on terror.
Many of the things that we did achieve were very laudable, McCain said. The United States now has vastly improved capabilities to combat our enemies.
The difference between waterboarding and John McCain is that waterboarding does have an end point. John McCain’s television appearances do not.
John McCain: be quiet. You had your shot at it and got beat. You were so inept, many of us thought you actually wanted to lose.
Will McCain never go away? So McCain thinks if we didn’t scare the ragheads a little bit they would have renounced their oft stated intent to kill, enslave or convert all infidels. Pure lunacy. McCain is a lunatic. We used to lock those people up.
I’ll say this though, what ever that poor excuse of a man is smoking must be really good s***.
I do not believe he endured much torture because his father was a US Senator. N. Vietnamese even offered to trade him back to the US. To his credit he declined. It all goes down hill from there as far as I’m concerned with him.
Did you know he’s the jerk who mistakenly fired a missle on the deck of the Ticonderoga while awaiting take off? Killed and injured many sailors and did lots of damage to the ship and its air arm. I also think the damage to his face most likely happened when he ejected after his plane was hit by an enemy missile or when he was captured on landing.
I cannot stand McCain or his politics- beginning with the Keating episode. That said, he cannot raise either of his arms above shoulder level due to permanent injuries he suffered at the hands of the North Viets. He was indeed tortured, and beaten repeatedly— and attempted suicide but was stopped by the guards. He was put in solitary for two years.
All these things add up in a person to tearing down their inner self. And it shows in his attitude toward ANY kind of forceful means to get critical intel. He needs to retire. He was a jonah in the Navy and is one now.
You have this completely wrong. Suggest you look up the official report from Naval Institute Proceedings.
On the USS Forrestal, John McCain was sitting in his fully armed & fueled A-4 Skyhawk, in rotation for launch, next to an A-4 piloted by LCDR Fred White. White’s A-4 was struck by a Zuni rocket fired accidentally from an F-4 Phantom across the deck. The rocket launcher assembly on the F-4 had an electrical safety pin with a flag on it, notorious for flying off in the wind on deck. So, when the power on the F-4 was switched over to internal power, the safety pin did not prevent a power surge, and this fired the rocket.
White’s plane was hit by the rocket and his fuel tanks ignited- the rocket did not explode-it punctured the tanks and they caught. The impact also dislodged 2 1K lb. bombs onto the flaming fuel. LCDR White was killed when a bomb cooked off from the fire. McCain’s plane was surrounded by the fire, just prior to this explosion, and he climbed out of the cockpit, over the nose and then out onto the refueling probe to escape. McCain’s plane and armament then blew up completely leaving a crater in the deck.
The fire team chief and the first wave of firefighters were killed instantly in the explosion. McCain just barely escaped his own plane’s explosion.
John McCain did not fire ANY missile. And the ship was the USS Forrestal, NOT the Ticonderoga.
I can’t stand McCain, but you should get things factually correct. He was also repeatedly tortured, hung by his arms from behind his back to where he could never again raise his arms above his shoulders. He was also put in solitary for two years and his hair turned white from poor nutrition. His problem is his experiences and trying to conflate them with our effective waterboarding of islamofascists. Good Night.
I agree with McCain here. (Can’t believe I said that.)
Torture is un-American (8th Amendment, anyone?).
Also un-American is sending our boys into a war zone with an RoE that a local police department would chafe at.
The two are not unconnected.
I’ve been trying to write those exact words for 10 years!
Thank You for speaking my mind.
Yours or mine?
The rule is that they must be freshly washed. LOL
That’s not torture!
Hey, I washed underpants for 3 sons and a husband.
Even after a good washing they could stil qualify as camouflage.
GMTA, my FRiend
McCain is a Pain!
There are POWs who dispute that McCain was tortured. The North Vietnamese knew he was an Admiral’s son and treated him differently.
Most of his physical problems were caused by the plane crash, itself. He had crashed two planes previously. If he hadn’t been an admiral’s son, I doubt he would have been allowed a third plane.
His broken bones were thought to be caused by the plane crash.
Luck Of The Admiral’s Son Not For “Grunts”
What hurt us was media and politicians falsely spinning our legitimate and humane interrogations of terrorists as torture to the rest of the world to provide aid and comfort to the enemy.
As Democrat Senator Zell Miller so aptly said, if it's not treason, it's it's kissin’ cousin.
What a load. Like the moozlums need a reason to be irritated and angry. If you aren’t moozlum (and their type of that), they want you and your family dead.
moozlum credo: I love you. I will kill you ans your family. Boom! Slash!
I'm assuming that you simply don't know the facts of McCain's POW experience. If you do know the facts and think what he went through wasn't torture, then I have some very serious problems with your post because no civilized nation should ever do that sort of thing to anybody.
Make no mistake: I am anything but a McCain supporter. I opposed him in 2000, I opposed him in 2008, and to do that outside Fort Leonard Wood did not exactly endear me to a lot of Vietnam-era veterans.
However, to deny that McCain was tortured in Vietnam is to ignore the facts. As others have pointed out, he was so badly beaten that he is still unable to have full use of his arms. It took long and intensive physical therapy to get him to the point that he could return to military duty, and that was as a Navy pilot — if he had most other duties he would have been forced into medical retirement.
Attack McCain for his positions if you like. I'll probably join you in nearly all cases. But don't deny that he suffered torture.
I’m sure it hurt and I feel your pain but that’s as far as it goes.
Thank you for your service to this country while in uniform Mr. McCain. You’ve worn out your welcome on the political stage. Kindly exit to some place where you can do no harm.
Didn't think so either...
Thanks. I appreciate being corrected. I had read the account I spoke of several times a long time ago. Thought it to be true.
I fully concur I should have relooked the issue before I posted.
I very much appreciate the tone of your response to my inappropriate post and the very detailed description of what happened on the Forrestal.
As for the torture part—is there any credible verification of McCain’s alleged torture?
My only explanation is my utter contempt for the man McCain has become. I got inexcusably carried away.
My hatred of the commies and the lying viet bastards extends to the incredible mental damage they did to all of our POWs and their families. Almost as much as my hatred of LBJ and McNamara. Not all our guys ever recovered, and McCain may have been co-opted— due to his experiences, the psychological damage and all the above, coupled with being a family of admiral's “brat” and a brawler, even though he is documented high IQ. It adds up. But our "torture" was certainly not the viets, and he is just wrong on this and many other things.
As we work to remove the obamanation and rescue our country, we all have to make sure of our footing and be constantly reminded of our freedoms. It is a tall task, and we have to vote out the RINOs and the DINOs (socialist/communists- which the old line demos, the few that are left are not capable of eliminating from their ranks).
Waterboarding is part of our soldier’s training. It is effective, obviously. The stakes, especially in the case of WMD’s really obviates a philosophical discussion of “is it right”.
If it reveals the location of a dirty nuke— do it, and cross reference the info- develop the action plan, and defeat our enemy. This is warfare, not public relations.
It is public relations that gets our people killed and aids and abets our enemies— and they know it and use it. Been doing it for years, thanks to the liberal and MSM press.
I was able to find McCain’s account of his POW experience in his own words. His shoulder injury, as well most of his other injuries, occurred as a result of ejecting from his aircraft.
Other than that his alleged torture experience may have aggravated those injuries and broken some ribs and teeth.
I also erred in saying his father was a Senator. He was a Navy Admiral. When the N. Viets found out, they put him in a hospital. We have only McCain’s account for what did or did not happen in that hospital.
They offered to release him, but McCain refused. By his own account it seems clear he was treated a bit differently after that than the other POWs.
McCain’s belief that what America did is any way shape or form on a par with torture by totalitarian regime’s is pure fantasy. And then to say that had we not done what we did things would have changed for the better with the Islamoterrorists is pure sophistry.
I will not give McCain the benefit of any doubt. I do not know what he was like prior to his POW experience. I do know his elected office career has turned into one very large travesty. Whether his mind was addled or he was turned in captivity is of no interest to me.
What is clear to me is that much of his behavior in office has been shabby at best and traitorous at worst.
As for Johnson and McNamara, I share your disdain for those two losers.
Thanks for the look-up. We share a lot in common about McCain and his leadership lacks.
My family is Navy/Marine since the Revolutionary War. So we know/knew all about all the McCains, grandpa, pa, and John. McCain’s book is about him, and as you say, selective and not complete. He was offered an early release once the N.V.A. knew who he was— and did not take it in exchange for a confessional. There are no witnesses to this, but he was put into solitary and beaten daily for 2 years of the 5.5 years he was there. He was repeatedly hung up by his arms from behind.
All that aside, his actions re: POWs/MIAs, his reconciliation with Vietnam trade, his constant “reaching across the aisle” to the liberals... all of it adds up to no good. The need to reconcile or ‘reach out’ I think comes from his imprisonment- how to get along with the guards- and from his shame he felt towards his father who was COMPAC. For whatever warping the viets caused I hate them, and for what the did to all our guys- they can go to hell with Jane Fonda. But warped I think he is.