Posted on 09/13/2011 8:09:37 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
Earlier today, I noted that Michele Bachmann finally scored points on Rick Perry by hitting him on his ties to Merck and linking that to the Gardasil mandate Perry imposed through executive order in Texas. This is a fair point on Perry’s record, even given his apology for pursuing the mandate through EO instead of through the legislature, and it’s not surprising that Bachmann was the candidate to first take advantage of the opening. (Mitt Romney passed a mandate on health insurance for all citizens of Massachusetts, which pretty much puts this issue out of reach for him.) However, Bachmann took a winning argument about the method and the wisdom of mandating a vaccination for a limited-spread virus and turned it into an anti-vaccination argument, especially in this post-debate argument on Fox with Greta van Susteren.
>>>"There’s a woman who came up crying to me tonight after the debate. She said her daughter was given that vaccine. She told me her daughter suffered mental retardation as a result of that vaccine."<<<
Huh? “Mental retardation” typically takes place in a pre- or neo-natal event. Autism becomes apparent in the first couple of years of life — and primarily affects boys. Gardasil vaccinations take place among girls between 9-12 years of age. Even assuming that this anecdote is arguably true, it wouldn’t be either “mental retardation” or autism, but brain damage.
The FDA has received no reports of brain damage as a result of HPV vaccines Gardasil and Cervarix. Among the reports that correlate seriously adverse reactions to either, the FDA lists blood clots, Guillain-Barre Syndrome, and 68 deaths during the entire run of the drugs. The FDA found no causal connection to any of these serious adverse events and found plenty of contributing factors to all — and all of the events are exceedingly rare.
The “mental retardation” argument is a rehash of the thoroughly discredited notion that vaccines containing thimerasol caused a rapid increase in diagnosed autism cases. That started with a badly-botched report in Lancet that allowed one researcher to manipulate a ridiculously small sample of twelve cases in order to reach far-sweeping conclusions about thimerasol. That preservative hasn’t been included in vaccines for years, at least not in the US, and the rate of autism diagnoses remain unchanged.
The most charitable analysis that can be offered in this case for Bachmann is that she got duped into repeating a vaccine-scare urban legend on national television. It looks more like Bachmann sensed that she had won a point and wanted to go in for the kill, didn’t bother to check the facts, and didn’t care that she was stoking an anti-vaccination paranoid conspiracy theory, either. Neither shines a particularly favorable light on Bachmann.
Rick Santorum took the correct position on the Gardasil issue. We mandate certain vaccines in children because we mandate children be gathered for educational purposes for many years (in private or public schools), and certain diseases are easily communicable in those settings. By mandating vaccinations against whooping cough, measles, and mumps, we are protecting children who would otherwise get exposed without any action on their part except compliance with the law. That’s not true with HPV, and parents should decide for themselves whether to inoculate their sons and daughters with Gardasil or Cervarix. If Perry wanted to make those inoculations more accessible, he could have crafted an opt-in system rather than forcing parents to opt out.
“I am a libertarian. As a libertarian I believe in freedom so long as my actions don’t hurt another. If I am not vaccinated and my children are not vaccinated then, if they get one of these diseases they are very likely to infect others. That isn’t a libertarian thing to do to another.”
You’ve restored my faith that not all libertarians are off their nut.
Well stated.
I could be mixing those two religions up then. I don’t know the difference between Scientology and Christian Science Church. For now I’ll just assume you are correct that disregard for all vaccines is a part of the Christian Science Church and not Scientology. I will have to read about their differences though, mostly out of curiosity. Thanks for clarifying.
True, the one the Mayo Clinic left off was eating out! One of the biggest outbreaks of Hep B was from a restaurant worker infecting food and passing it along. Ala typhoid Mary. BTW I am sure some of those things go on at school(s), approved or not.
Generally, "Yes," but the suit must be brought and decided under the terms of the National Childhood Vaccine Act.
See Supreme Court Rules the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 Bars State-Law Design-Defect Claims Against Vaccine Manufacturers, which refers to the case of Bruesewitz v. Wyeth LLC, FKA Wyeth, Inc., decided in February 2011.
VAERS data cannot be used to prove a causal association between the vaccine and the adverse event. The only association between the adverse event and vaccination is temporal, meaning that the adverse event occurred sometime after vaccination. Therefore, the adverse event may be coincidental or it may have been caused by vaccination, however we cannot make any conclusions that the events reported to VAERS were caused by the vaccine.It has NOT "done a lot of damage."
As of June 22, 2011, approximately 35 million doses of Gardasil® were distributed in the U.S. and VAERS received a total of 18,727 reports of adverse events following Gardasil® vaccination: 17,958 reports among females and 346 reports for males, of which 285 reports were received after the vaccine was licensed for males in October 2009. VAERS received 423 reports of unknown gender. Of the total number of VAERS reports following Gardasil®, 92% were considered to be non-serious, and 8% were considered serious.
Summary
Based on all of the information we have today, CDC recommends HPV vaccination for the prevention of most types of cervical cancer. As with all approved vaccines, CDC and FDA will continue to closely monitor the safety of HPV vaccines. Any problems detected with these vaccines will be reported to health officials, healthcare providers, and the public and needed action will be taken to ensure the public's health and safety.
Thank you.
There may be an “Opt-out”
But America was founded on “Opt-in”
You could ignore her threads completely.
I suspect that if your favored candidate (whoever it is) was leading, you'd be busy helping to spin away that candidate's flaws. Unless your candidate has no flaws.
Do boys get cervical cancer? I hear that Gardisil also works against Hepatitis B because it is not necessarily a sexually transmitted disease.
That sounds good to me. At this point I’m not really for or against Perry but I am darned sure against BS.
Another thing that non-Texans don’t get about Gardasil is the impact on our Hispanic population.
1) Hispanics are a majority in Texas.
2) Hispanics in TX have an extremely high rate of teen pregnancy. (Shh, that means they’re having sex.)
3) Hispanics in TX have a high rate of poverty.
4) Gardasil is $360 (@ $120 ea.)
5) High teen pregnancy & poverty rates equals increased risk of contracting HPV.
6) Gardasil has the potential to save TX taxpayers millions in healthcare costs for our Hispanic population by preventing cancer treatments later.
There are lots of arguments against a Gardasil mandate. The above is an argument for a Gardasil mandate (properly done via legislature.)
Is that right? So, if you’re born here you have the “option” of becoming a U.S. citizen and abiding by our laws? LOL
Or not.
The dynamic that drives this is that when it's your kid, a scientist's answer that "we really don't know what causes (for example) autism" is just emotionally unacceptable.
So parents grasp at straws and try anything, no matter how whacked.
One can sympathize with them while still rejecting their views as public health policy.
Other vaccines are required for diseases that can be passed casually, i.e. breathing the same air, touching a doorknob after an infected person has touched it. HPV is passed through a behavior choice that is deliberate and carries other risks besides HPV.
Oh I know, your little princess will be 21 and married before she’s thrashed by Antwon, not like the likely average age of 13.
I simply don't want government dictating to me how I should be raising my child. I would certainly fight against the Obamas dictating what I should be feeding my child, but apparently, you are okay with that since the rate of childhood obesity is so high.
Good grief.
She went down quite a bit in my estimation. Reminded me of John Edwards, for pity's sake!
Here's hoping she drops out...
But who is to say there wouldn't be lists kept in the future?
You nailed it. That’s exactly how she comes across.
Thank you. I been racking my brain for the, “What is it?” but didn’t put it all together until your comment.
Well that could be done if enabling legislation were passed first. The EO bypassed the legislature.
Thackney, for better or worse, the public school has become the surrogate the state mental hospital. Children who were once institutionalized are now attending school with your children. Unvaccinated, these challanged children are at significantly increased risk of both having Hep B and passing it on to other students in the schools.
Another thing to consider is that some vaccines provide lifetime immunity, the Heptavax appears to be one of these. By vaccinating children, you are protecting them from exposures later in life, at a time when they are unlikely to be seeking medical care otherwise.
Vaccines have worked so well people don’t understand why we need them.
I travel all over this world.
Before going anywhere in Africa or India, I get re-dos of vaccines even if you docs say I don’t need them.
Hell, I take anti-malarial drugs that turn my piss blue before I go.
And about 5 acidophilus pills a day on the theory they might crowd out whatever might want to grow there.
It sounds like the same arguement would hold for HPV.
Vaccine for Hepatitis is mandated and it is not passed this way.
While it is very effectively spread by sexual content, supposedly it is also spread by nonsexual contact as well. Poor sanitary conditions also spread it. I know that physicians, nurses, dentists, dental hygienists, etc. are at high risk of being exposed and are required to be vaccinated. There is a very high incidence of hepatitis B in South Texas especially among illegal aliens.
I thought that was Hepatitis A. Both A and B are separate vaccines and both required.
Those are all people working with blood or bloody tissue.
But they can get throat cancer, and that is apparently increasing. Apparently male homosexuals are voluntarily getting Gardacil vaccinations to prevent anal cancer.
Hepatitis A is spread that way. Not Hepatitis B.
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/hepatitis/hepatitisA/Pages/transmission.aspx
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/hepatitis/hepatitisB/Pages/transmission.aspx
She DID make the point well. Then she went and said something stupid.
If I walked up to you and told you a story, without any supporting information, would you be inclined to go on national TV and use it as part of your campaign for President.
Really, its not just the “story” that is not reliable, it is that she would use it to make a point that makes me think she is not thinking clearly.
Yes, I could see myself being that empathetic to someone’s story to use it later in the day when talking to a group. But, when you stop and think about it, its really not a good practice. And to think that a woman who has been under scrutiny for other stupid comments, would continue to do so makes me really think she is not competent for the job.
And haven’t we had enough of that lately?
I agree. While I haven’t gone into those places, my daughter has been to Haiti several times. She comes home and is just amazed at what we take for granted. The stories are just chilling.
Yes, vaccines are wonderful things.
Then it should not be required. (If an employer wants to require is as a condition of employment, that is a different issue.)
Hepatitis vaccine was never required when my kids were in school, and strangely enough, there was never any sign of an outbreak or even of one person infecting another.
At least you are consistent. We disagree, but that is okay.
Cheers.
BTTT
I struggle to get me kids to understand just how some of the world lives. I spent a long time in Yemen 60 miles from the nearest paved road. It was about 40 miles past that to the first building with plumbing.
Some cannot understand what life is like where sewage flows in the street and the village water supply is a single open well with water dipped out by hand.
Wake up.
You know what I’m talking about.
I want to control my own health care and what goes into my own body.
I don’t want the government telling me that I’m going to be injected with some untested serum unless I read the fine print and realize I can opt-out.
I began lurking in 1997 and signed on in 1998. The discourse reflects the politics around the country. People are beyond upset about what has happened in our government!
Like I’ve said all along. Bachmann can’t get elected. And after doing some more research into her and her church, I wouldn’t want her to. It’s almost like she’s secretly a KKK Klanswoman- she hates Catholics and views their church as evil and led by the antichrist (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/michele-bachmanns-former-church-explains-popeanti-christ-claims/2011/07/15/gIQAzMG7FI_story.html). The last thing we need is someone so hateful in the presidency who now is apparently also advocating ovarian cancer for her own personal gain.
...but where do you stand on this? I am beginning to realize that neither side seems to have all the facts right.
If it would assure that my daughters would never have either cervical cancer or hepatitis B, I’d give it due consideration. I don’t know how the same vaccine could protect against two such different diseases. Someone was saying on Rush that they don’t give the vaccine to anyone who is already sexually active, and that is the reason for giving it so early. I don’t know why that would be. It doesn’t sound right.
Anyway, the Gardisil brouhaha is not nearly a big an issue as Obamneycare.
You know, vaccines are the weirdest issue on FR that get the weirdest obsessiveness. I remember when pertussis vaccines were blamed for autism until that was debunked.
It's almost like a religion--vaccines seem to tap into a vein of primitive thinking.
The problem is that they are too successful, maybe?
In my family's old cemetery there is a little line of tombstones, where four children from a single family died within a few weeks of each other of diphtheria.
That was so many years ago that we start to believe that the diseases no longer exist. But I can remember children with leg braces before the polio vaccine.
While I don't think that we should jump willy-nilly into a new vaccination program, the reaction to Gardisil is out of proportion to its dangers.
It’s considered proper to ping those of whom you speak......;)
Hepatitis B is a separate vaccine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002730/
Gardisil makes no claim against Hepatitis B. However, it does prevent some other HPV diseases.
http://www.gardasil.com/what-is-gardasil/cervical-cancer-vaccine/index.html
I got my hepatitis B vaccinations in 1986. I don’t know if that counts as new or not. Hep B vaccine is one of the more mild vaccines as far as side effects go. I didn’t even get sore from it.
I get a lump the size of a baseball when I get the old DT boosters. I still get them though.
I do know what you’re talking about and I don’t give a crap about it. It has nothing to do with my post.
Bachmann is desperate and her statements seemed out there.
I think she is over.
Bachmann? Turn ‘er over, she’s overdone!
I thought you were arguing against Hep B vaccination. I think I misunderstood you.
Yes, the same arguement would hold for HPV vaccination.
I am a little agnostic about the HPV vaccination but when you consider the odds of girl remaining a virgin until she marries, multiplied by the odds of her husband also being a virgin then adding the risk of him philandering, it is not unreasonable for even a “good” girl to receive the vaccine.
I support using for my family the Hepatitis B vaccine and the HPV.
I know that many will not get the vaccine if not covered by insurance or other funding outside their pocket.
I don’t understand those that support our requirement for Hepatitis B vaccine but find moral objections to HPV vaccine.
My oldest daughter is 15 and far more morally and religiously conservative than I was at that age.
But someday she might follow my wife’s decision and marry a born-again christian with a misspent youth.
>>>”There’s a woman who came up crying to me tonight after the debate. She said her daughter was given that vaccine. She told me her daughter suffered mental retardation as a result of that vaccine.”<<<
Bachmann was just repeating what the woman told her.
But SOMETHING happened to that woman’s daughter, right after the vaccine, probably something that mimicked mental retardation.
Some almost have an islamic fundamentalist view on the HPV vaccine. “We don’t need shots, we have stones to deal with that problem.”
The concern seems to be how it is spread rather than the disease itself, but thanks to a nameless former president, HPV may eventually have to be renamed the kissing disease.
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