Skip to comments.A deadly hysteria - Bachmannís vaccine lunacy
Posted on 09/14/2011 12:59:16 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
n Monday nights debate, Michele Bachmann, Ron Paul and Rick Santorum all seemed to be auditioning for the role that Jude Law plays in the film Contagion -- Alan Krumwiede, a blogger who tells millions that a vaccine to combat a lethal pathogen is actually dangerous, and claims both the epidemic and vaccine were created by government to enrich drug companies.
Krumwiedes conspiracy theory proves deadly -- and so will these Republicans, if anyone listens.
....Dont be distracted by legitimate, but minor, questions about how states should make public-health decisions: The thrust of this attack is garbage -- and deadly garbage at that. The anti-vaccine psuedo-science behind the charge has been thoroughly discredited.
By alleging that vaccines cause retardation and brain damage, Bachmann is providing aid and comfort to such groups as Generation Rescue, which still defend the now-discredited claims that vaccines cause autism. (The Lancet decertified Andrew Wakefields study last year. This year, the British Medical Journal showed his research was bogus to boot.)
All three candidates slammed Texas Gov. Rick Perry for requiring immunization of 12-year-old girls against the human papilloma virus, a leading cause of cervical cancer. The attack truly became a blogworthy screed as we heard about how Perry and Merck (the developer of Gardasil, one of the two HPV vaccines) profited from the mandate at the expense of childrens health.
....Unless other Republicans confront Bachmann or she changes her tune, fewer parents will vaccinate their kids. More children will die. Tragically, life will imitate art.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
BACHMANN: Well, of course, I don't know the thoughts and the intents of the governor's heart. I have no idea what they are, nor would I speculate."<<< .. Source
Gardasil and the GOP .. "In the extensive clinical studies (on more than 20,000 girls and women) that were performed prior to the FDAs licensing of the vaccine, the vaccine was 100 percent effective, a virtually unprecedented result. How safe is the vaccine? No serious side effects were detected; the most common side effect is soreness, redness and swelling in the arm at the site of the injection.
....In summary, Gardasil has one of the most favorable risk-benefit ratios of any pharmaceutical.
Having spent 15 years at the FDA and having seen regulation the good, the bad and the ugly up close, I am as opposed to anyone (except perhaps Ron Paul) to non-essential government intrusion into our lives. But some interventions are good. Among those I would include vaccination against childhood diseases and compulsory use of seat belts and motorcycle helmets.
I am discouraged by politicians who not only dont know much about science, technology, or medicine (which is perhaps understandable) but also dont know what they dont know (which is unacceptable).
Heres my advice to the presidential hopefuls: If youre not sure of the facts, keep quiet. Henry I. Miller, M.D., is Robert Wesson Fellow in Scientific Philosophy & Public Policy Hoover Institution.]
The American Academy of Pediatrics also issued a pointed rebuttal to Bachmann's comments, without mentioning her name:
The American Academy of Pediatrics would like to correct false statements made in the Republican presidential campaign that HPV vaccine is dangerous and can cause mental retardation. There is absolutely no scientific validity to this statement. Since the vaccine has been introduced, more than 35 million doses have been administered, and it has an excellent safety record.
The American Academy of Pediatrics, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the American Academy of Family Physicians all recommend that girls receive HPV vaccine around age 11 or 12. Thats because this is the age at which the vaccine produces the best immune response in the body, and because its important to protect girls well before the onset of sexual activity. In the U.S., about 6 million people, including teens, become infected with HPV each year, and 4,000 women die from cervical cancer. This is a life-saving vaccine that can protect girls from cervical cancer. Source
Opposing HPV Vaccine "Unethical" - M.D. Anderson Cancer Center President "............ Dr. Ronald DePinho, the new president of MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, says the vaccine is not just sound but "one of the great scientific advances in the history of medicine."......
Dumb premise for a movie. Maybe eight people read anybody's stupid blogs.
Down with Vaccinations!
POLIO FOR EVERYONE!
Why does anyone need Gardasil if they are not sexually active?
And when they do become sexually active if they don’t have multiple partners why do they need it?
So in short, if you don’t have the risk factors (behavior) then why do you need it?
Now they're trying to make it illegal to NOT take their witches brew.
Some govt intrusion is good? It's OK to point guns, take prisoners, demand ransom, as long as it's good for you?
It isn’t all or nothing.
One can choose not to get a particular vaccination and not be against all vaccinations.
TEA PARTY is about limited government NOT under the guise of salvation accepting executive ordered mandates = taxes.
How much have we the taxpayer been charged to produce and distribute this drug? I mean from day one of research unto this date... Most especially since there are other options to protect oneself from becoming infected. That option does NOT cost all of US one thin dime.
If female, have you ever had a Pap smear? Your female relatives? Why bother? If you’re not promiscuous you don’t have to worry, right?
What about someone who is raped? What about someone who turns their life around? What about someone who unknowingly married a guy with a “history?” Did the woman who ends up with cervical cancer deserve it?
.........I have no problem with professional representatives of candidates or the candidates themselves showing up here to discuss their strengths and answer challenges but ONLY so long as they identify themselves as such. This ongoing battle among consulting firms and Party apparatchiks portraying themselves as grass roots activists has to stop. It is a fraud upon the people of this forum for which, in my opinion, they should be banned..... Checkout this suggestion to have posters on FR banned.
It was **pinged to me, Jim Robinson and others.
I will again say, I DO NOT represent (work for, coordinate with, have any association with) ANYONE but myself (and I never have) -- just as I DID when I posted threads for years in support of Sarah Palin. Now I support Rick Perry on Free Republic.
Sadly, many kids are sexually active from their early teens. Parents who are sure that their child and the furture spouse of their child will wait until marriage and be faithful should not hesitate to have their child opt out. For the others, the vaccine would probably be a good idea. My daughter is in her mid-twenties and knows several young women who already have had cervical cancer.
The point is, it should be your choice, not the governments. Its none of government’s business.
One size does not fit all.
How does one know one’s fiancee has never had sex before marriage and carrying latent HPV?
they assume every little lady out there is a tramp.
plain and simple.
there is a death issue with this as with all other vaccinations, it is an acceptable death factor. most vaccines come with that.
There is a vaccine that will prevent a deadly cancer, save thousands of lives, and you choose to not have it made readily available (ie cost, information and availability)?
And I don’t work for a pharmaceutical company.
Because they cannot be sure that their partner does not have other partners. I knew one woman who was in a 20+ year marriage who died of cervical cancer. Her husband cheated on her.
You need it so Merck can make a lot of money....
This thread is a crock, imho.
We are to think less of Representative Bachmann because of a role, scripted by a Hollywood leftist, in a MOVIE?
Give. Me. A. Break.
Hollywood is the lunacy.
Everyone here should appreciate the hard work and time you put in to provide so much information. I know it isn’t easy.
Conservatives are supposed to be bright enough to make judgements for themselves and don’t need to be protected from information we don’t agree with - as long as the information comes from a news source with a history we are aware of. Be it good or bad. If posting lies were to be banned, the NYT would be one of the first to go...
It is important to know what your enemies are up to and what is being said about both friend and foe, true or false. The real hope of FR is to expose the lies and false stories for what they are and make the truth as visible as possible.
.The Gardasil vaccine was recommended the FDAs vaccine approval committee, more than 6 months before Governor Perrys Executive Order. All girls who qualified for the Federal Vaccines for Children program were eligible to receive the vaccine free of charge: Medicaid, CHIPs, and uninsured or those with insurance that wont pay for vaccines. The Texas Legislature had previously delegated unconditional authority to mandate new vaccines to the Department of State Health Services, which is under Governor Perry and the Executive Branch.
The Governors Executive Order (RP 65) that caused all the controversy also ordered the director of DSHS to make it easier for parents to opt out of vaccines. The Legislature had changed the law from opt in to a requirement to opt out once for all the school years. Next, they changed to a two year limit on the opt out, and then in 2005, the Legislature restricted the period to one year and required a new State form bearing a seal. Parents had to go to Austin or start early in the summer. There were bureaucrats who maintained that the only way to get the form with the seal was to go to Austin, find the right office and make the request in person. Perry used his EO to tell the Director of DSHS to make the request (and the seal) available on-line, making it easier to opt out.
Does it offend you that Merck charges for its products?
So if government isn’t pushing it, it won’t be “readily available”?
If it works, great. If it is safe, great. If people want to pay for it and get it, great.
There’s just no end to “do good” government. And government “knows best”. If you let government dictate these things it will - and over the long run it always goes wrong.
As long as it doesn’t do it with the heavy hand of government I’m all for Merck making lots of money. Just beware of government and business partnering for your own good... It won’t be.
Since when did we the people 'government' become the vehicle USED by drug companies to make sales? We the tax payers are already paying for the poor children to get their shots. What Merck asked and got was to MANDATE private insurance companies to cover the vaccine. Long arm of 'government' saving US.
I just don’t want the government being the gate keepers of healthcare. Neither dictating what I must have done to me or what I’m not allowed to have done to me.
Government should have no role in protecting their citizens from disease?
Or is it just the SEX part that you object to?
Let’s put it this way, “the shot will protect those who come into contact with those who are infected.”
If that is objectionable to you, you better make sex illegal because “innocent” people are going to die from this cancer.
The collusion of business and government is what bothers me.
Merck should have freedom to do its business without government mandates to help increase sales of their products.
Think about George W. Bush’s multi-billion dollar expansion of big government (Medicare Part D).
It was about taking our tax dollars to subsidize the sale of pharmaceutical company products.
The government needs to get out of the way and create free markets but not take sides and subsidize and support some businesses.
The way Rick Perry switches sides on issues like he did between the past and now is highly reminiscent of old “slick Willie.”
I was very disappointed when Sarah Palin supported Michele Bachmann's inappropriate and uninformed rant about this cervical cancer vaccine.
Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann Minneapolis Convention Center April 7, 2010
I think I understand why the Republicans are NOT throwing out ObamaCare... and why it is acceptable to give pills instead of procedures to old American grandmas so there will be plenty of money to fund sex I mean cancer drugs.
What part of 'we the people' are GOVERNMENT do you not understand, NOT a few elected high minded executors of mandates = taxes to pave the road to 'salvation'.
How do you propose to get this cancer prevention to the general population - cheaply, easily and quickly?
Is this life saving vaccine just for the wealthy? The educated? The elite?
You use the word "collusion." Is national disaster assistance "collusion?" Is anything that has government working with business "collusion?"
There is a point when one cross the line from being objective to being dangerous.
I could not read the whole thing but by page 3 it was like reading the Clintons/Obamas political careers.
I never objected to anyone who wants to get the vaccination from getting it - though I do think they should pay for it.
I stated what I object to more clearly in #24.
Yes, those dumb women could NOT possibly know more than a high minded professional male politician and the medical society that relies upon US to fund their operations.
By the way I know personally more than a few MD's and some of them are just enthralled with Cuba's health system.
Why aren’t men mandated to get the vaccine if they are the vectors?
“Old American grandmothers” care about the health of others.
You wrongly characterize me - as pushing abortion pills - because I want a cancer vaccine readily available. That’s beyond the pale. So, because I want lives protected (from unforeseen danger) I suddenly, in your why of thinking, must like abortion and by extension, ObamaCare.
How far are you willing to slam others to protect your narrow point of view?
This cancer vaccine (and you can choose not to have it) has an optimum time to be administered — as do other vaccines.
actually, they plan to give it to the boys too, but it is a very expensive vaccine and there’s not enough of it to go around.
And wait til the Christian right hears that it is the gay groups that are pushing it (to stop anal and other genital cancers in gay men).
There are "no mulligans or do-overs" on getting this cancer. This vaccine needs to be done earlier -- rather than later.
This is not a “gay” disease.
The issue here for me is not whether or not it’s OK for government to mandate inoculations. It’s whether or not women who refuse to take the inoculation represent a threat to their fellow citizens. In other words, is HPV like smallpox? If a child isn’t inoculated, is the risk of exposure high enough and the results deadly enough to require such an brutal intrusion on personal liberty? If not, then Governor Perry’s actions were unjustified if not an abuse of power. To me, the answer is clear.
So every drug or whatever else that “can save a life” needs to have the skids greased by government so that it can get to the “general population - cheaply, easily and quickly” as possible...
I’m sorry, but that is not governments function. Can you show me where that is in the constitution?
There really is no end to the good intentions of saving people from endless hazards. At some point we have to take responsibility for ourselves and if we lack the resources to do it suffer the consequences. Family, charity and churches are a good place to start for those who lack resources - not sugar daddy government.
Those who claim to know how to spend our limited resources towards better ends than the people who do the producing are endless as well. Its a major reason we are in the financial mess we’re in today.
I don’t understand why you don’t think this vaccine would be available without direct government involvement.
Do people have sex?
I don't care WHO helps make's it easily and cheaply available. It's a cancer prevention vaccine.
I did NOT hint or say anything about abortion pills. BamBamKennedy said himself, that under his health care system when asked about a medical procedure for an old grandmother... that it might be where a 'pill instead of a procedure' would be the route taken. The reasoning is the expected life span of an old grandmother was NOT cost effective to spend health care dollars. So our dear 'government' has assessed where government (taxpayer) dollars will get allocated to keep alive the bodies most important to maintain their system.
Ah my point of view is NOT narrow, as I am NOT the one who seems to think it is a benefit to your selected candidate to bash and smash Bachmann because she had the nerve to repeat what someone told her after the debate.
WE the people are BROKE, and it is NOT by accident, and IF anyone thinks that we can sustain the taxation without representation to maintain our medical expenditures is NOT paying attention to what has taken place over the past 50+ years.
CW: “Is this life saving vaccine just for the wealthy? The educated? The elite?”
You go to far! You’ve expanded “life saving” to the point of nonsense. Decades after exposure, some girls (who are exposed to HPV) will develop cancer. Most can be cured by cancer treatments and surgery, but an even smaller percent will die. You might as well mandate that government provide free stomach stapling for the poor, because we know excessively overweight people have much higher risks of diabetes and heart disease. Not only that, but you should support free gym memberships for the poor, too. I bet the health risks of poor diet and lack of exercise are more dangerous than the risks of not taking Gardasil.
I see that you have another thread dedicated to this subject, and have to wonder if you have a personal stake in the argument. I do not mean financially, but perhaps have had your life impacted by this.
If so, I can understand the desire to protect others from enduring something that *may* be preventable, and have no desire on my part to be perceived as attacking you directly or dismissing the suffering of anyone who has had their life or family impacted by any form of cancer. But I wonder if our societal push for a cure for cancer does not lead us to taint our interpretations of experiments with more hope than reality.
However, here is the American College of Pediatricians position on the HPV vaccination:
“The American College of Pediatricians is opposed to any legislation that would require HPV vaccination for school attendance. Excluding children from school for refusal to be vaccinated against a disease spread only by sexual activity is a serious, precedent-setting action that trespasses on the right of parents to make medical decisions for their children as well as on the rights of the children to attend school. The administration of this vaccine is exclusively to prevent a disease that is sexually transmitted, and mandating it as early as 9 years of age places the medical provider in an ethical dilemma. Administering the vaccine requires explanation to both the parent and the child. Parents may have chosen not to introduce the subject of sexual activity to their nine year old due to the childs physical and emotional immaturity. Most 9-12 year old children are not sexually active; many have not entered puberty. Forcing a parent to forsake his/her better judgment to prematurely discuss HPV with the child would be inappropriate and unnecessarily intrusive.”
I note that the paper does start with a statement of its safety, which I do not find convincing, but its discussion of sexuality and doctors’ and parents’ roles in discussing it with young people is much better than I expected.
I love how my opinion is dismissed, or made suspect for motive, through “wondering if” you’re only doing this because you’ve been “impacted” by this somehow preface to your post. (thanks for not implying — though you did bring it up - that I have a money motive - which I do not).
No one in Texas was going to be excluded from attending school w/o this vaccine. No one had this vaccine given because of Rick Perry’s EO (which the legislature voted to remove) to make it more easily available.
The group that represents most Pediatricians in the USA (60 thousand members) is the American Academy of Pediatrics and they support giving the vaccine.
the group you quote is listed having an address in Gainesville Florida, was started in 2002, does not require you to be a pediatrician to join, has no information on how many belong except to say they have members in "47 states".
DB: “So every drug or whatever else that can save a life needs to have the skids greased by government so that it can get to the general population - cheaply, easily and quickly as possible...”
You’ve proven conclusively that CW is a statist. Where does individual liberty and responsibility come into CW’s thinking? Based on her written statements, government has an obligation to provide free health care to the poor so long as whatever is provided might ultimately save a life. Gardisil wasn’t even means tested. Governor Perry wanted it provided at taxpayer expense for all girls, whether or not the parents could afford it.
Personally? I don’t think CW is really a statist. I just think she tries to justify whatever her current favorite candidate has done and doesn’t take those justifications to their logical conclusions. I’m sure many on the left would use the same arguments to support all sorts of free health services to the poor, a constantly expanding array of services for a constantly expanding pool of eligible people. That way leads to bankruptcy on a grand scale.
As you noted, nothing prevents parents or charities from providing the vaccine to whoever they want. Just because someone can’t “afford” something, it doesn’t mean everyone else should be forced to pay.