Dont't think that just 'cause a kid is new to your school he was harvest off the turnip patch the day before.
Just sayin'. 8->
Posted on 09/14/2011 7:40:29 AM PDT by Graewoulf
With the very successful bankrupting of America by Dictator Obama, Dodd-Frank bill/law/bill, un-Constitutional Entitlement taxation laws such as Social Security System, MediCare, MediAid, and obabmatrauma"care", does America really need to continue to allow our Labor Unions to exist? Is this not overkill?
Look at the record of the Teacher's Union in 2008: they supported a candidate that was totally incompetent, and totally without experience to take over running the world's largest business, which is the US Federal Government.
One would think that teachers would be educated enough to distinguish between competent and incompetent, qualified and unqualified. It gives one pause, as these are the same teachers who are being paid by us to teach our children THEIR values.
Now that America has been so successfully bankrupted, do we really need this much overkill? The Liberal's Welfare State has won, and we all promise to learn Chinese, hire only illegal aliens, and keep on voting for those who promise to burden us with the most debt possible.
The debt-creators have won, but do we need to have Labor Unions to continue to bully us around?
Hopefully, the New Jersey Law against Bully Behavior can be approved by the NINE SUPREMES, so that all of America can be protected from those bad bully bastions of behavior beneficial only to Labor Unions, and their spawn.
As to your uncle, I never said he was lazy. And I'm sure his motives were pure; but, then, whose aren't. The road to Hell is paved with ... .
Believing that you are doing right is not a justification for doing wrong.
Employment is a CONTRACT between employer and employee. Workers have every right to join together to bargain the terms of that contract as a group. What they do NOT have a right to do is restrain the employer from contracting with someone else, to intimidate non-union workers who wish to replace them, or to demand that every employee and prospective employee join the union. If unions had not done every one of those things, they would have disappeared in short order.
To everyone who whines about “jobs gone overseas”, you can thank, among other things, unions. Decade after decade of union demands and “activity” drove the costs of being competitive in the USA and world markets over the edge for many businesses. Their choices were bankruptcy or set up business elsewhere.
Pro-union types point to the millions of workers over those many decades who lived to a higher standard of living even though they may have had little or no education. Well, that was great for them, but we’re paying the piper now. There is no free lunch.
State and Federal government unions are an abomination and should be eliminated YESTERDAY. (NEA, that means YOU!)
I think you are forgetting that little thing known as freedom of association. While I dislike most unions, much like I dislike their “speech,” they are protected.
—As to your uncle, I never said he was lazy. And I’m sure his motives were pure; but, then, whose aren’t. The road to Hell is paved with ...—
He put them into practice. I was arguing the point that not all “big labor” is only out to make big labor richer.
I’ll add another story: One of my adult kids was working for a company as a union driver. The company was taken over by the owner’s son who had no business sense whatsoever. The new owner watched my kid do his job one day and then fired him for attempting to rip off the company. Now, my son was one of the hardest workers there and was doing what they all HAD to do because of a lack of equipment. And the original owner gave them permission to do it. Also, this “method” only gave “opportunity” to steal (and then really only limited). IOW, he was fired for doing his job in a way that, had the new boss not been there, he theoretically COULD HAVE stolen something.
He was fired, pure and simple, and the new owner was done with it as far as he was concerned. Well, the union got involved and asked to see his employment record. The file was brought out and, for effect, the union guy let it flop open in front of everyone to see the contents fall out. Except there were NO contents. The union guy said, “What the fu** is going on here.
The epilogue: My son got a fairly large settlement from the company without even threatening a lawsuit and now owns his own business competing with them. It’s been almost two years and he has outpaced their business, gotten “awards” from the supplier for the sheer quantity of businesss, is happy to hire his own union drivers and life is great.
The union was actually there for him, believe it or not.
I’m sort of annoyed by both the right and left removing all humanity from the other side. Being a man, I know the heart of man. Even that union thug that embarrassed himself on that now infamous youtube video is just a human being like the rest of us. Sure, I LOVED that he and his got exposed for what they are, but I suspect he has VERY poor interpersonal skills and was very stressed over what would happen to him after the trashing they did at Longview (and with that video he sealed his own fate). But he’s not Ted Bundy or Hitler, and we don’t know just how violent he would have gotten.
Unions have, for the most part, gotten out of hand. I think they could be shrunk to 5% of what they are now and still serve their purpose. But they are peopled by the same sinners that people all sorts of jobs at cubicles and retail spaces all over the country. And plenty of them go to church.
So where does that leave us? For me, it leaves me here: I treat every one and every organization on a case by case bases. After some exposure to them I will probably lump them in with one “group” or another, but my first step is to give them the benefit of the doubt and make sure they are judged by my solely on their own actions and not the actions of anyone else.
Side note: In the video I mentioned, did you notice at eh end a couple of other guys were coming out and it looked suspiciously that they were either gonna bring him in or help him actually bust some heads. We’ll never know which, but something “different” would have happened if the guy had lingerd or given one more verbal threat.
” - - - The problem is that banning unions is quasi-constitutional at best. - - - “
If what you say is true, then did President Reagan do something Un-Constitutional when he disbanded the Air Controllers Union ?
Small, in-house unions can be very effective. The International unions, on the other hand, are not formed to defend the rights of workers, they are formed to oppose capitalism. Defending workers is just a side line, an organizing technique.
The founder of the ILWU, the SSA union, was a card carrying communist and nothing much has changed in that regard.
Take a look at the Gateway Terminal that SSA is building in WA State. Gateways are multi-modal transportation projects, part of the UN Agenda 21, involving special economic zones, free trade and redistribution of wealth from developed countries to lesser developed countries. In this case, they want to ship US natural resources and bulk products to Asia, where the jobs will be created. SSA has been looking for a deep water port to use for trade with China in the NAFTA corridor, ever since China started construction on the Mexican port.
Does that sound like something that is good for the American worker?
Oh, I forgot to mention that Patty Murray’s husband is a life-time employee of SSA and that she has written the Infrastructure and transportation portion of Obama’s jobs bill to benefit SSA, CARRIX, Goldman Sachs and Warren Buffet.
There is a huge difference between voluntarily sharing a common interest and creating an organization to replace one tyrant with another.
Many utopian societies looked at communism and eventually rejected it. Trade Unions of the 20th Century, drew heavily on input and funding from the Soviet Communists. Workers of the World kind of sums it up.
Thanks for the advice, newb.
Hmmm, study history...Never...thought..of that.
Oh, I definitely think the world in which unions came into existence in the US is long gone. That is why I’d like to see their power diminished to about 5% of what it was at its peak in this country. But I also think the whole western civilization is about to hit the reset button. Then all bets are off.
BTW, quit dissin’ my celuloid collars!
No, PATCO was decertified by the fed for good and well documented reasons. The decertification wasn't even challenged in court as the union knew that the Reagan Administration had an avalanche of evidence.
That's a completely different discussion than making any union illegal, anywhere. I have the right to assemble and associate with the people I work with, and if we want to pool our weight to increase our bargaining power, there is no legal ground to prevent it.
Dont't think that just 'cause a kid is new to your school he was harvest off the turnip patch the day before.
Just sayin'. 8->
If we are supposed to look at the supposedly glorious early days of unionism, then we must also look at their historical and ever-present threat (and use) of violence. Anyone who supports unionism has made the moral choice to accept whatever level of violence the union chooses to use. Turning the other way is simply a tacit approval of the technique. (Everybody is familiar with this method by watching Turtlehead Colmes when he is challenged to criticize a lib.)
The individual employee has the right to negotiate a contract with the employer. That employee could not, however, delegate his responsibilites to perform the work assigned to him to another party, so how does anyone gain the right (exept for government mandate) to interfere with the one-on-one relationship?
Unions claim ownership of jobs, yet they accept none of the risks that owners do. Therefore, unions get input into management decisions without risk. Capitalism only works when risk is rewarded and punished based on performance. The only source of increased societal wealth is by increases in productivity. Does anyone believe the cause of unionism promotes productivity? Explain to me what a union rep produces. How many widgets per hour?
Strikes are protected by government action, thus affecting the performance of a business by those other than its owners or customers. If employees can legally conspire to raise wages, businesses should be allowed to conspire to suppress them. Unionism developed during the great wave of populism of the late 19th Century when, instead of being celebrated as the great creators of wealth and improved living standards, business was seen as an exploiter. Nobody back then was shanghaied and dropped into a factory job - they all went willingly, many of them to escape the drudgery, exposure to unsafe conditions, and economic risks from climate and market variability inherent in farming. If they hadn’t seen the deal as a way to improve their living standard, why would they have left the farm in the first place?
Paying a union member more than what the market determines his labor is worth is the economic equivalent of eating the seed corn today instead of saving it for planting season. Every single grain of corn (and every single dollar) that is used today is unavailable for producing future crops. So, not only are the prices of products produced by union labor unnecessarily high today, but it reduces investment for tomorrow’s growth.
—Hmmm, study history...Never...thought..of that.—
I said “read”, but maybe that was a poor choice of words. For those that already know it, maybe “consider” would have been a better word.
We don’t live in a two dimensional cartoon with one dimensional characters. The devil (and angels) are always in the details. That very much applies to the American labor movement. It’s had its ups and downs, and its dipping into absolute evil, but it would be a mistake for us conservatives to paint them with the same broad brush that liberals use to paint business and capitolism.
Then charge em with racketeering.
They are democrat money laundering vote buying mechanisms, and they are now well into brown shirt territory.
I’m sorry, a bunch of people gathering to overthrow my system of government, and intimidate, commit violence, kidnapping and whatever else don’t have the right to associate anywhere other than prison as far as I’m concerned.
—Anyone who supports unionism has made the moral choice to accept whatever level of violence the union chooses to use.—
One of the reasons unions came about was because some businesses were using the police to bust heads. Based on that, one could also say, “Anyone who supports big business has made the moral choice to accept whatever level of violence the business chooses to use.”
Unions, like other businesses, are each different. They should be judged independently. Genreally speaking, I come down on unions hard, but I will not just say “unions are all violent” without evidence to support that statement. I really hate the teachers union and consider them a blight on our shcool system. There are a few others I have strong evidence for “hating”. But I’m more neutral on others.
Nothing created by man is perfect. Not even religion.
I have never been a member of a union. I have been dragged into more than one union squabble, both between unions and employers and unions vs. unions. You may want to note that my last post was in response to a comment that Christianity was a communist group. In no way do I suggest that unions in their current incarnation are anything more than “workers of the world” front organizations that maintain their power by purchasing legislation and intimidating anyone who questions them. They are by definition a RICO Crime in progress.
Unfortunately, individual responsibility, mutual respect and honesty are not part of the equation when it comes to people. Nobel intent was never part of the equation. The original government intervention was on the side of the employer not a level playing field. Politicians then learned that unions payed better for their services than the businessmen and they also brought vote guarantees and violent rent-a-mobs. What better marriage than that?
If there is a justification for any collective bargaining it should be to insure that the employer, employee relationship is based on the actual work performed and the agreed benefits to be paid. That should be a condition that both employer and employee want to happen. Operative word should. We are very far down that slippery slope and most want to get off, but to where and in whom do we place our trust?
” - - - there is no legal ground to prevent it. - - - “
You have succinctly described why I made this post. Can America Afford to Allow ANY Labor Unions to Legally Exist?
Back in the day, Labor Unions were helpful. Now they are harmful. Can we afford to allow ourselves to be harmed by allowing Labor Unions to continue to exist legally in America?
Would a free labor market be a better alternative to Labor Unions? Should the Federal Minimum Wage Law be rescinded this year? Should employers be fined 1000 dollars a day for each illegal alien that they hire, or otherwise pay?
Will American Companies return to manufacture in the USA if all Labor Unions are abolished?
Labor Unions have priced themselves out of the US job market. Deal with it.
How are you proposing to ban two employees from banding together?
Non-goverenment unions, ok. (we can buy from another vendor if we so choose)
Gubmint unions, no.
good summation why, here:
“Government Unions Are Different”
http://freemarketsfreepeople.net/?p=363
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