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Liberals fear payroll-tax holiday will undermine Social Security (Boxer: "Ponzi scheme is a crime")
The Hill ^ | 9/14/11 | Mike Lillis

Posted on 09/15/2011 1:01:07 AM PDT by Libloather

Liberals fear payroll-tax holiday will undermine Social Security
By Mike Lillis - 09/14/11 01:58 PM ET

Liberal lawmakers in both chambers are hammering the Obama administration for pushing a payroll-tax holiday they say threatens Social Security.

The lawmakers fear Obama’s proposed 2012 payroll-tax break — included as part of his newly released jobs package — could become permanent, stealing from Social Security’s lone funding stream and eventually eroding senior benefits.

“Over a period of years — if you do it one year, and then you do it two years, and then you do it three years — then it becomes permanent,” Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) told reporters Wednesday in the Capitol. “And somebody’s going to say that if you don’t do it, then you’re raising taxes.”

Rep. Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.) sounded a similar warning, noting that the loss of revenue created by the payroll-tax holiday makes Social Security necessarily reliant on general funds. That, in turn, makes the program much more susceptible to cuts, he added, particularly in a political environment in which deficit reduction has become a top priority.

“Suddenly, someone will say, ‘Wait a minute, we can’t afford to subsidize this thing anymore,’ and the Republicans will say, ‘Well, you can’t raise the tax,’” DeFazio said.

The current tax holiday slashes workers’ payroll taxes from 6.2 percent to 4.2 percent — a real reduction of 32 percent. The benefit, which is slated to expire at the end of 2011, is estimated to reduce federal revenues by roughly $112 billion — money the government will have to borrow to refill the resulting hole in the Social Security Trust Fund.

As part of his new jobs package, Obama has proposed to increase the size of the break, dropping workers’ payroll tax rates from 4.2 percent to 3.1 percent through 2012.

The White House also wants to extend the break to businesses, which aren’t receiving the 2011 benefit. The combination of payroll proposals would reduce government revenues by roughly $240 billion, according to White House estimates.

The issue has flipped the normal politics of Washington on its head, with many Republicans — who are urging sweeping tax cuts as economic stimulus strategy — nonetheless opposed to Obama’s payroll-tax holiday.

“It is a horrible idea,” Rep. Pete Sessions (R-Texas) said Friday.

Meanwhile, Obama has adopted the popular GOP argument that allowing a tax cut to expire constitutes a tax hike — a message he delivered last week in challenging Republicans to support his payroll-tax cut.

“If we allow that tax cut to expire — if we refuse to act — middle-class families will get hit with a tax increase at the worst possible time,” Obama said last Thursday night in his address to a joint session of Congress. “We can’t let that happen.”

The odd dynamics weren’t lost on DeFazio.

“A little ironic, isn’t it?” DeFazio said. “What he’s done is create the [question] of, ‘What do we do after that?’

“If this becomes permanent, then Social Security would be exhausted in 2021, instead of 2037. Now, that’s a big problem.”

Rep. Ted Deutch (D-Fla.), another critic of Obama’s payroll-tax provision, said Wednesday that he’s been in contact with the White House about finding other ways to get money into consumers’ pockets without draining Social Security’s coffers.

“We’re going to continue to push for that,” he said.

Not all Democrats have the same concerns. Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), for instance, was quick to note that Obama’s proposal requires that Social Security’s lost revenues be backfilled from general funds.

Rep. Barney Frank (Mass.), the senior Democrat on the House Financial Services Committee, also dismissed the idea that the tax holiday would evolve into a permanent vacation.

“Our deficit stresses are too much for that,” Frank said.

He added that he would have preferred another strategy for strengthening the economy, but that the tax-holiday extension “is more stimulative than nothing, so I’m supporting it.”

Sanders and DeFazio say they have a better way. The pair introduced legislation Wednesday to expand the level of income subject to the Social Security tax — currently capped at $106,800 — to include income higher than $250,000. The lawmakers say the proposal would fully fund Social Security for the next 75 years — 38 years longer than the program is estimated to remain fully solvent under current formulas.

“We have to guarantee that we will continue this program as far as anyone can predict, and this one simple step will actually do that,” DeFazio said. “It’s fair. It fixes the program forever. No more discussion about raising the retirement age. No more discussion about cutting benefits. No more discussion about privatization. Just fix the existing Social Security compact and ensure it for all future Americans.”

Sanders noted that Obama himself endorsed the idea as a White House contender.

“While some of you may think that this is a terribly radical idea, let me confess that we stole this idea from a candidate for president of the United States,” Sanders said. “You may remember his name. [He] was called Barack Obama.”

The issue is already becoming a topic of contention on the presidential trail, after Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) described Social Security as a “Ponzi scheme.”

Bolstered by public opinion polls indicating that Social Security remains highly popular with voters, Democrats have pounced on Perry’s remarks.

“A Ponzi scheme is a crime,” noted Boxer, a supporter of the Sanders-DeFazio bill. “So [Perry is] saying Social Security is criminal.”

A CNN poll this week found that nearly 7 in 10 Republicans disagree with Perry’s criticism of Social Security.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: holiday; liberals; socialsecurity; taxes
“So [Perry is] saying Social Security is criminal.”

You're never too old to learn something new.

Some fun stuff - Flashback 2007: Tim Russert and Chris Matthews Agree Social Security Is 'A Bad Ponzi Scheme'

1 posted on 09/15/2011 1:01:14 AM PDT by Libloather
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To: Libloather
So if they modify the SS system to tax those over 250K/year then we will have money to pay benefits for 75 years?

What's to stop This additional money from going directly into the general fund and be spent on pork projects and vote buying just like before?

2 posted on 09/15/2011 1:30:16 AM PDT by oldbrowser (Santelli is the real leader of the tea party.)
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To: Libloather
.

.


3 posted on 09/15/2011 1:41:34 AM PDT by Cobra64 (Common sense isn't common anymore.)
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To: oldbrowser

Nothing. easy answer.


4 posted on 09/15/2011 1:48:22 AM PDT by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
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To: oldbrowser

Then rename social security to senior citizen welfare. Forget calling it a “retirement program”. Its just a wealth redistribution program to take from one group and give it to another.


5 posted on 09/15/2011 2:15:11 AM PDT by DB
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To: Libloather
Liberals fear payroll-tax holiday will undermine Social Security

Well, for once in their lives they're right. Of all the tax cuts Obama could have proposed, this one is probably the worst.

6 posted on 09/15/2011 2:18:18 AM PDT by BfloGuy (Keynesians take the stand that the best way to sober up is more booze.)
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To: Libloather
“Over a period of years — if you do it one year, and then you do it two years, and then you do it three years — then it becomes permanent,”

Such honesty from a politician! I hope he realizes the IT is any federal benefit program.

7 posted on 09/15/2011 2:59:35 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: Libloather

Barney Frank is more stupid than nothing


8 posted on 09/15/2011 3:43:43 AM PDT by kushnejz (Boehner shopuld forc3e)
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To: Libloather
included as part of his newly released jobs package

Jobs package? WHAT jobs package?

O'Blamer didn't file a bill, the Dems didn't file a bill, and a rep from Texas already swiped the name and used it for a bill of his own.

Why are they all wasting time nattering on something that doesn't even exist?

9 posted on 09/15/2011 4:32:32 AM PDT by MamaTexan (If it works in theory but not in practice, then it's not a theory...... but a failure)
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To: Libloather
Rep. Barney Frank (Mass.), the senior Democrat on the House Financial Services Committee, also dismissed the idea that the tax holiday would evolve into a permanent vacation.

“Our deficit stresses are too much for that,” Frank said.

Huh?
Can someone translate that nonsensical gobbledygook into ENGLISH?
10 posted on 09/15/2011 4:53:10 AM PDT by Condor51 (Yo Hoffa, so you want to 'take out conservatives'. Well okay Jr - I'm your Huckleberry)
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To: Libloather
Calling it the "payroll tax" instead of FICA or better yet "Social Security Tax" should be illegal. It masks the fact that you are starving Social Security of funds, making this another generational transfer theft. If you want to increase the worker's take home pay, why not cut the Federal tax rate and pay for it during the current budget year? Answer: because that cuts spending and we can't do that! Far better to let the grandkids pay the freight.

Dear God, where are the Republicans screaming from the rooftops what Obama is doing to Social Security??? The RATs talk about what the Republicans might do if elected all the while advancing doomsday from 2037 to 2021.

11 posted on 09/15/2011 5:24:16 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (So much stress was put on Bush's Fault that it finally let go, magnitude 6)
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