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Neanderthals ate shellfish 150,000 years ago: study
http://www.physorg.com ^ | 09-15-2011 | Staff

Posted on 09/15/2011 7:42:53 AM PDT by Red Badger

Neanderthal cavemen supped on shellfish on the Costa del Sol 150,000 years ago, punching a hole in the theory that modern humans alone ate brain-boosting seafood so long ago, a new study shows.

The discovery in a cave near Torremolinos in southern Spain was about 100,000 years older than the previous earliest evidence of Neanderthals consuming seafood, scientists said.

Researchers unearthed the evidence when examining stone tools and the remains of shells in the Bajondillo Cave, they said in a study published online in the Public Library of Science.

There, they discovered many charred shellfish -- mostly mussel shells -- left by Neanderthals. They were able to date the shells by radiocarbon testing to about 150,000 years ago.

That is "almost contemporaneous" to the earliest evidence of modern humans eating shellfish at Pinnacle Point in South Africa 164,000 years ago, said the study led by the University of Seville's Miguel Cortes Sanchez.

"This discovery makes the Bajondillo Cave the oldest record of this activity among Neanderthals, as the earliest evidence until now did not go back further than 50,000 years," said Francisco Jimenez Espejo, researcher at the Spanish National Research Council (CSIC), which was part of the study.

"Many researchers argue that eating shellfish is one of the behaviours that define modern humans and to a certain extent an adaptive advantage that allowed homo sapiens to expand," Espejo said.

"But this investigation shows that at the same time as homo sapiens in southern Africa, homo neanderthalensis in the southern Iberian peninsula used the same resources."

The study was released Wednesday and is available online at: http://www.plosone … #authcontrib


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Germany; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: caveman; dietandcuisine; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals
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Didn't say whether they had mango salsa or not.......

1 posted on 09/15/2011 7:42:59 AM PDT by Red Badger
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping!...........


2 posted on 09/15/2011 7:43:41 AM PDT by Red Badger ("Treason doth never prosper.... What's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.")
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To: Red Badger

Duh.

Hunter gatherers would have eaten anything that didn’t eat them first. It don’t get much easier than shellfish.


3 posted on 09/15/2011 7:46:18 AM PDT by cripplecreek (A vote for Amnesty is a vote for a Permenant Democrat majority. ..Choose well.)
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To: cripplecreek

4 posted on 09/15/2011 7:49:04 AM PDT by Red Badger ("Treason doth never prosper.... What's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.")
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To: Red Badger
Neanderthal cavemen supped on shellfish on the Costa del Sol 150,000 years ago...

And Neanderthals still do. I was there a number of years back and the Spaniards still ate them.


5 posted on 09/15/2011 7:53:54 AM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: Red Badger
Aquatic ape hypothesis
6 posted on 09/15/2011 7:54:51 AM PDT by Palter (Even liberals need jobs.)
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To: Red Badger
and where are the Neanderthals now you ask?

Consumer Advisory Warning: eating raw or undercooked beef, eggs, poultry, pork, or shellfish may increase your risk for foodbourne illness

7 posted on 09/15/2011 7:59:09 AM PDT by NativeSon
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To: Red Badger

Everybody SING now!
"Welllllll....
the fossils date the rocks
and the rocks date the fossils
and the fossils date the rocks, again!"

8 posted on 09/15/2011 7:59:36 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Red Badger

To tell the truth, most scientists working on this type of cra* are nothing but scam artists looking for grant money. They can take all their degrees and put it in a little “cave”.


9 posted on 09/15/2011 8:01:58 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: MrB

So it was a red tide that contaminated the shell fish and wiped out the Neanderthals. The red tide was obviously from human pollution so there you go.


10 posted on 09/15/2011 8:04:28 AM PDT by Any Fate But Submission
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To: Red Badger

What is so surprising about this? Why would anyone suppose that Neanderthals would not eat shellfish? Hunting and gathering people will eat just about anything they can find, and mussels are very tasty, and full of good nutrients. They are also easy to prepare.

Directions for preparing mussels (from an old Neanderthal recipe):
1. Find mussels, Bring them back to cave or hut.
2. Have wife built fire.
3. Throw mussels around edges of fire.
4. When mussel shells open up, mussels are cooked — enough. Retrieve them, and when they are cool enough, eat them.


11 posted on 09/15/2011 8:17:01 AM PDT by docbnj
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To: NativeSon

But they didn’t know about months with an ‘R’ in them because months hadn’t been invented yet!...............


12 posted on 09/15/2011 8:17:43 AM PDT by Red Badger ("Treason doth never prosper.... What's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.")
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To: Red Badger
I thought that radiocarbon dating was only good for 50k years.
13 posted on 09/15/2011 8:19:25 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: Lazlo in PA

Boy, those eyes are piercingly evil-looking.


14 posted on 09/15/2011 8:27:47 AM PDT by eCSMaster (Democrats: the Party of NO!)
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To: mountainlion

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0024026#authcontrib

They also used Uranium and Thorium dating.......

And Speleothem Dating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speleothem


15 posted on 09/15/2011 8:33:41 AM PDT by Red Badger ("Treason doth never prosper.... What's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.")
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To: docbnj

What is ‘fire’?.................


16 posted on 09/15/2011 8:34:25 AM PDT by Red Badger ("Treason doth never prosper.... What's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.")
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To: Red Badger
There, they discovered many charred shellfish — mostly mussel shells — left by Neanderthals. They were able to date the shells by radiocarbon testing to about 150,000 years ago.

I guess this part is wrong then.

17 posted on 09/15/2011 8:47:36 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: mountainlion

clam bake!


18 posted on 09/15/2011 8:50:48 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: Oratam

clam bake!

They must have really like them to walk thousands of miles to get them.


19 posted on 09/15/2011 8:52:22 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: mountainlion

Partially. Journalists don’t take science classes..........


20 posted on 09/15/2011 8:52:28 AM PDT by Red Badger ("Treason doth never prosper.... What's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.")
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To: Red Badger

Wow, big creatures ate little creatures!!!

More of my tax dollars down the drain.


21 posted on 09/15/2011 8:53:53 AM PDT by bgill (There, happy now?)
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To: Red Badger
Where are the lemon rinds? If you don't put a squeeze of lemon juice in the shell fish to blind’em a little bit they'll see where they're going and keeping crawling back up.
22 posted on 09/15/2011 9:01:38 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Red Badger

In other news:
Man was thought to have walked upright 150,000 years ago.


23 posted on 09/15/2011 9:01:38 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: count-your-change

My question is, “Where’s the beer bottles?”................


24 posted on 09/15/2011 9:02:57 AM PDT by Red Badger ("Treason doth never prosper.... What's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.")
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To: Red Badger
That question shows a real lack of understanding of the virtues of primitive man who lived in harmony with nature and himself and only fought when it was necessary to preserve the advancements he had made.

Beer Bottles? They were recycled of course.

25 posted on 09/15/2011 9:32:12 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

I can live in harmony with nature and myself with beer...........


26 posted on 09/15/2011 9:35:52 AM PDT by Red Badger ("Treason doth never prosper.... What's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.")
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To: Red Badger

You should have seen the ex-wife’s family at a crab feed. I counted my fingers after dinner to make sure they were all there.


27 posted on 09/15/2011 9:42:05 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Red Badger; SunkenCiv
Neanderthals ate shellfish 150,000 years ago

Then they converted to Judaism and starved to death.

And now you know...the rest of the story.

28 posted on 09/15/2011 9:53:11 AM PDT by decimon
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To: blueunicorn6

The Neanderthals are alive and well, it seems.........


29 posted on 09/15/2011 9:55:24 AM PDT by Red Badger ("Treason doth never prosper.... What's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.")
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To: Red Badger

A brave man it was who first an oyster et


30 posted on 09/15/2011 10:03:45 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ....Rats carry plague)
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To: Red Badger
Partially. Journalists don’t take science classes

Politicarts don't take economics either.

31 posted on 09/15/2011 10:09:04 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: Red Badger

And if the crab wasn’t bad enough, you should have seen them with mashed potatoes. They had to have a huge pot of mashed potatoes, with gravy, every evening. It always reminded me of one of those Jack London books where a wolf gets shot and the other starving wolves devour it. I made the mistake one evening of asking “Please pass the mashed potatoes?” I tell you, if looks could kill...I’d have been dead 30 or 40 times. I think the youngest brother was sizing me up to figure out how much gravy they could make out of me.


32 posted on 09/15/2011 10:35:01 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: mountainlion

Remember, you’re not reading what a scientist wrote, you’re reading what a journalist thought a scientist said.


33 posted on 09/15/2011 10:47:09 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing an idiot)
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To: mountainlion
They must have really liked them to walk thousands of miles to get them.

I remember from my 5th grade social studies class that the Indians in the east relocated to the Atlantic coast for the winter as the snow shut down the interior woodlands to hunting. Archeologists know this from the enormous middens (representing centuries of use) found along creeks and streams a mile or so from the open ocean.

I wonder if that's the case with the Neanderthals.

34 posted on 09/15/2011 11:00:00 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: muir_redwoods

Remember, you’re not reading what a scientist wrote, you’re reading what a journalist thought a scientist said.

Journalist bias? That would never happen./s

I like to make fun of global warming and evolution also.


35 posted on 09/15/2011 11:44:58 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: Red Badger

Duh, shell fish are easy to catch...


36 posted on 09/15/2011 2:58:01 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: mountainlion
Journalist bias? That would never happen./s I like to make fun of global warming and evolution also.

It's not bias, per se, it's mostly ignorance.

37 posted on 09/15/2011 4:03:44 PM PDT by cidrasm
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To: Palter; Red Badger

Since Palter brought it up...
The Scars of Evolution:
What Our Bodies Tell Us
About Human Origins

by Elaine Morgan
"The most remarkable aspect of Todaro's discovery emerged when he examined Homo Sapiens for the 'baboon marker'. It was not there... Todaro drew one firm conclusion. 'The ancestors of man did not develop in a geographical area where they would have been in contact with the baboon. I would argue that the data we are presenting imply a non-African origin of man millions of years ago.'"

38 posted on 09/15/2011 6:43:57 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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the underlying paper:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0024026

http://www.plosone.org/article/showImageLarge.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0024026.g001

http://www.plosone.org/article/showImageLarge.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0024026.g003


39 posted on 09/15/2011 6:48:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: decimon; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks decimon. If they'd eaten Chinese 150,000 years ago, they'd have been hungry again 149,999.999 years ago.
The Neandertal Enigma
by James Shreeve

in local libraries
Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]
To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


40 posted on 09/15/2011 6:49:21 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Red Badger; SunkenCiv

The first Neanderthal to eat a raw oyster must have been very brave, starving or horny.


41 posted on 09/15/2011 6:55:11 PM PDT by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
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S Africa, shell jewelry 75K ago:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1118872/posts

blam’s post, Homo Florienensis made shell necklaces 82K ago:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1418969/posts?page=18#18

rejoinder, shell jewelry in N Africa, 82K ago:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1844620/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1855689/posts

Apparently they hadn’t got the memo, Israel 90K to 100K ago:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1654022/posts

Oops, make that 100K to 135K ago
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1663929/posts


42 posted on 09/15/2011 6:57:50 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: wildbill

If he wasn’t horny before, he would have been after.


43 posted on 09/15/2011 8:15:43 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: TASMANIANRED
Duh, shell fish are easy to catch...

Not scallops, real ones, that is...........

44 posted on 09/16/2011 6:27:16 AM PDT by Red Badger ("Treason doth never prosper.... What's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.")
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To: Red Badger

Well that settles it.

Neaderthals were not Jewish.


45 posted on 09/16/2011 8:30:40 AM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Nothing to see here. Move along.)
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To: docbnj
Directions for preparing mussels

You left out the garlic and white wine reduction sauce. :-))

46 posted on 09/16/2011 11:27:29 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: MrB
MrB: "Everybody SING now! 'Welllllll.... the fossils date the rocks and the rocks date the fossils and the fossils date the rocks, again!' "

Rocks are dated using:

Fossils are dated:

Of course, some of these methods are "derivative" of others, and each has associated difficulties.
But the "gold standard" is radiometric dating, and when several different materials agree, then that's as good as it gets.

47 posted on 09/17/2011 5:31:48 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK
and when IF several different materials agree

which doesn't happen as often as you imply.

What happens is that 3-4 methods are used, the results are wildly different, and so the person tests it asks "what fossils do you see in the layers above and below this sample?", and the "indexing fossils" are used to determine which of the radiometric tests to use.

48 posted on 09/17/2011 6:44:15 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: MrB
MrB: "What happens is that 3-4 methods are used, the results are wildly different, and so the person tests it asks "what fossils do you see in the layers above and below this sample?", and the "indexing fossils" are used to determine which of the radiometric tests to use."

You meant to say: What has been reported, on occasion, is that..."

Sure, no method is fool-proof, all are subject to errors depending on circumstances.
When several methods -- including indexing fossils -- can be used to produce similar results, then the data is more reliable.
This is especially true when the ages of those "indexing fossils" were confirmed by several different radio-metric methods.

But those who use all this to argue that therefore the Earth is only 6,000 years old, are in no sense being scientific.

49 posted on 09/17/2011 10:25:09 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK

“But those who use all this to argue that therefore the Earth is only 6,000 years old, are ...”

...being silly. God is not bound by time. Whatever methods he used to bring all this about could take as much or as little time as He pleased.

After you get past the fact that God created the heavens and the Earth, all that is seen and unseen, what does it matter whether He did it in the twinkling of an eye or billions of years?

When you say that God created Adam from dirt, are you really excluding the possibility that He used a method that is in complete congruence with what science has discovered about the origins of the universe and our planet?

I’ve been toying with a spectulation—and that’s all it is, just idle speculation—that when God breathed life into Adam, that is, when He ensouled humanity, it might have been just after the big die-off after Toba.

Maybe the dieback served to eliminate some genes He didn’t want in homo sap.

Again, just idle speculation for the purpose of amusing myself.


50 posted on 09/17/2011 3:39:48 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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