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Cherokee Indians: We are free to oust blacks
MSNBC ^ | 9/14/2011

Posted on 09/16/2011 1:08:12 AM PDT by Altura Ct.

The nation's second-largest Indian tribe said on Tuesday that it would not be dictated to by the U.S. government over its move to banish 2,800 African Americans from its citizenship rolls.

"The Cherokee Nation will not be governed by the BIA," Joe Crittenden, the tribe's acting principal chief, said in a statement responding to the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Crittenden, who leads the tribe until a new principal chief is elected, went on to complain about unnamed congressmen meddling in the tribe's self-governance.

The reaction follows a letter the tribe received on Monday from BIA Assistant Secretary Larry Echo Hawk, who warned that the results of the September 24 Cherokee election for principal chief will not be recognized by the U.S. government if the ousted members, known to some as "Cherokee Freedmen," are not allowed to vote.

The dispute stems from the fact that some wealthy Cherokee owned black slaves who worked on their plantations in the South. By the 1830s, most of the tribe was forced to relocate to present-day Oklahoma, and many took their slaves with them. The so-called Freedmen are descendants of those slaves.

After the Civil War, in which the Cherokee fought for the South, a treaty was signed in 1866 guaranteeing tribal citizenship for the freed slaves.

The U.S. government said that the 1866 treaty between the Cherokee tribe and the U.S. government guaranteed that the slaves were tribal citizens, whether or not they had a Cherokee blood relation.

The African Americans lost their citizenship last month when the Cherokee Supreme Court voted to support the right of tribal members to change the tribe's constitution on citizenship matters.

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: citizenship; nation; race

1 posted on 09/16/2011 1:08:21 AM PDT by Altura Ct.
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Didn’t know there was an enclave of unwelcome Blacks within the Cherokee Nation.


2 posted on 09/16/2011 1:21:37 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Your Hope has been Redistributed. Here's your damn Change!)
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To: Altura Ct.

How can you be African Americans and Cherokee citizens at the same time. What would that make you? Native African Americans? African Native Americans? Or what?
Seems to me, both are oxymorons.


3 posted on 09/16/2011 1:28:20 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Wanna confuse obama? Ask him his REAL name.)
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To: Altura Ct.

I’ve seen this story before, usually accompanied by some people snarking on the Libs for not standing up for the freedmen — but then I realized that the Conservatives have been remarkably quiet about this as well.

And I don’t know why.


4 posted on 09/16/2011 1:29:20 AM PDT by Ronin (If we were serious about using the death penalty as a deterrent, we would bring back public hangings)
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To: Altura Ct.
Nathan Bedford's first Maxim of American politics: all politics in America is not local but ultimately racial.


5 posted on 09/16/2011 1:38:34 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: Ronin

“And I don’t know why.”

Why do they want to revoke their citizenship? Or tribal membership I guess I should say. It’s not a lot of people, so i don’t see why this is an issue for the Cherokee tribe. And then what happens to them? Do they have to apply for US citizenship?


6 posted on 09/16/2011 1:41:10 AM PDT by jocon307
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To: Altura Ct.

The BIA can piss up a rope. ha!

If only the rest of America would tell this to the Fed.


7 posted on 09/16/2011 2:02:12 AM PDT by waterhill (Got pig?)
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To: Altura Ct.
...BIA Assistant Secretary Larry Echo Hawk...

So that's where Idaho's former Attorney General went.

8 posted on 09/16/2011 2:13:24 AM PDT by Victoria_R (Believers in VERY small government: Count Mountjoy/Benter in 2012!!!)
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To: Altura Ct.
I'd be willing to guess that this has more to do with culture than anything else. Who, gets to decide what a Cherokee is. The BIA? The 1866 Treaty? Or do the Cherokee people themselves decide.
9 posted on 09/16/2011 2:32:26 AM PDT by csense
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To: Altura Ct.
The reaction follows a letter the tribe received on Monday from BIA Assistant Secretary Larry Echo Hawk, who warned that the results of the September 24 Cherokee election for principal chief will not be recognized by the U.S. government if the ousted members, known to some as "Cherokee Freedmen," are not allowed to vote.

Big mistake BIA. I've worked with the tribes before in the past and they will stand up together and tell Uncle Sam to shove it. And they can get away from it, especially since the Oklahoma tribes are politically very powerful and are recognized collectively as a sovereign government under U.S. law. Obama's BIA can try to bully them, but will get its head handed back on a platter.

10 posted on 09/16/2011 2:43:58 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin has crossed the Rubicon!)
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To: Altura Ct.
Two “victims” of the paleface slave masters duking it out...

There is a deeper meaning here somewhere...

Nah,it's just the welfare pie is going to shrink and the Indians don't want to share anymore with the brothers.

11 posted on 09/16/2011 2:45:27 AM PDT by Happy Rain ("Count to ten when dealing with fools--with liberals make it twenty.")
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To: csense

It’s all about $$$$ and federal resources. Indian affairs is a zero sum game, with haves and have-nots. When those $$$$ and resources start drying up, then the tribes start squabbling internally and with each other. I guess the Oklahoma Cherokees got tired of sending out checks to black who are not Indian by blood. Eligibility is an enormous issue for the tribes, and they will push back hard against outside attempts to interfere with their ability to decide who is and Indian and who is not.


12 posted on 09/16/2011 2:48:00 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin has crossed the Rubicon!)
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To: Altura Ct.

We will exclude. (Wampanoag)


13 posted on 09/16/2011 2:58:06 AM PDT by Silentgypsy (If this creature is not stopped it could make its way to Novosibirsk!)
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To: Altura Ct.

Typical MSM smear job, trying to paint the Cherokees as bad ol’ racists like Massa in the Old South.

Not all Cherokees fought with the Confederacy, although some did. I suspect that those who fought did so over resentment about the Trail of Tears. How convenient for MSNBC to omit that little item! Some minorities are more equal than others.

Of course, liars in the media like to paint all Confederates as mint julep-sipping, veranda-sitting, slave-beating bad guys. And some fools believe it.


14 posted on 09/16/2011 3:13:30 AM PDT by GadareneDemoniac
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To: GadareneDemoniac

The comedian Don Cheadle’s family was among those people who were owned by the Cherokees.


15 posted on 09/16/2011 3:17:38 AM PDT by perez24 (Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap.)
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To: Altura Ct.

Interesting, warring tribes?


16 posted on 09/16/2011 3:18:18 AM PDT by Evergolightly (One's conclusions are founded in the path travelled.)
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To: MestaMachine

Come to Connecticut and visit the Mashantucket Pequot tribe. It has s black side and a white side and things are not peaceful.


17 posted on 09/16/2011 3:47:17 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing an idiot)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

I agree. I’m just guessing that it’s more culturally driven. I se no reason to think that they’re not going through what most other cultures are going through right now...an identity crisis.


18 posted on 09/16/2011 3:48:39 AM PDT by csense
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To: Altura Ct.

"Hast du gesehen in deine leben? Dey darker den us....WOOF!"

19 posted on 09/16/2011 3:53:03 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: csense

Well, Oklahoma Indians are somewhat different. There are no reservations in Oklahoma, but hundreds, perhaps thousands of individual Indian communities, which were thrown together as a result the 1830s-1840s Indian removal policy. In fact, the old Oklahoma Territory was uncle Sam’s dumping ground for uprooted Eastern Indians (from the so-called Five Civilized tribes), and although they maintain their original tribal identities, they still band together to exert tremendous political power, and Oklahoma’s congressional delegation fiercely protects them. BIA has started a fight it can’t win by involving itself in this internal eligibility issue.


20 posted on 09/16/2011 3:56:00 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin has crossed the Rubicon!)
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To: Ronin
but then I realized that the Conservatives have been remarkably quiet about this as well.

And I don’t know why.

It ain't my fight. I'm neither black nor Cherokee.

21 posted on 09/16/2011 4:48:54 AM PDT by Jemian
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To: Ronin

I’m quiet about it because I find it amusing in an Ambrose Bierce sort of way.


22 posted on 09/16/2011 5:06:47 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: GadareneDemoniac
The Cherokee had their own little civil war within the big Civil War. It is little known but was even more violent than the Missouri-Kansas border war, with similar but worse atrocities.

Somewhere around 20% to 30% of the Cherokees died during the war, many if not most non-combatants.

Not all Cherokees fought with the Confederacy, although some did. I suspect that those who fought did so over resentment about the Trail of Tears.

If so, they were extremely odd people. The Trail of Tears was implemented at the demand of southern whites, and pushed through despite a Supreme Court ruling to the contrary by Jackson, a southern slaveowner. Though actually implemented under Van Buren, a doughface.

The major help the Cherokee got in resisting removal was from New England, who of course had conveniently already gotten rid of all their Indians.

23 posted on 09/16/2011 5:34:07 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Altura Ct.
Guess the Cherokees didn't want to admit, There goes the neighborhood, and did something to correct it. I am sure The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers will have a solution to the black's plight.
24 posted on 09/16/2011 5:38:39 AM PDT by vetvetdoug
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To: Altura Ct.

Cultural divide? Segregation may be the constructive solution. More irony.


25 posted on 09/16/2011 5:46:27 AM PDT by RGSpincich
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To: Altura Ct.

If the CBC can exclude whites, why can’t the Cherokees exclude blacks?


26 posted on 09/16/2011 5:49:46 AM PDT by mewzilla (Forget a third party. We need a second one.)
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To: jocon307

“Why do they want to revoke their citizenship? Or tribal membership I guess I should say. It’s not a lot of people, so i don’t see why this is an issue for the Cherokee tribe. And then what happens to them? Do they have to apply for US citizenship?”

It’s citizenship, not membership. It is a nation within a nation with a constitution, language, government, and a *budget*, etc.

This is *not* a race issue. There are plenty of African-Cherokee *mixed blood* full citizens, as well as Delaware and Shawnee citizens. This is about a group that *never* mixed with the Cherokee and have (except in extremely rare circumstances) not been a part of the tribe for an entire century.

Then there are the Delawares and Shawnee. Add to that the United Keetoowah Band issue, and the thing gets complicated quickly.

The other issue is that there are tribal benefits. This could open up a load of “services” to 45,000 people. The tribe has worked hard to become financially secure, and that would basically put a huge strain on their finances.

Will these 45,000 rush to Tahlequah to learn the language, play stickball and marbles, pick wild onions and go to work for Cherokee National Industries, or will they show up for a handout? Are these people going to dramatically change who is elected chief when they are given the right to vote?

Well, let’s see what their tactics have been. Diane Watson (D) of Calfornia introduced a bill to strip the Cherokee Nation of its status as a federally recognized tribe if they didn’t reinstate citizenship to non-Cherokee freedmen. The freedmen care about the tribe sooooooooo much, that if they can’t be members, they’ll destroy it. That must be because they care about the welfare of the Cherokee Nation.

I would like to emphasize that the freedmen *received compensation from the federal government and the tribe.* That’s right, they agreed with the federal government and the Cherokee nation to walk away, and this was well after the treaty of 1866. They were paid off. They took their land and money and almost all (with extremely rare exceptions) walked away from the tribe. It is perceived that, now that the money is all gone, they’ve come back for more.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t be citizens. I’m saying that is an issue left for the tribe. If a large number of the freedmen had been coming to Tahlequah, learning the language and participating in tribal affairs (and a teeny-tiny minority have), this wouldn’t be an issue.

Don’t give me this Treaty of 1866 crap either. The BIA and Congress claim they can yank tribal recognition with a single vote, screw the treaty.


27 posted on 09/16/2011 5:51:00 AM PDT by cizinec ("Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery.")
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
I guess the Oklahoma Cherokees got tired of sending out checks to black who are not Indian by blood.

After all, Uncle Sam is focused on helping Holder's people these days. ANd, then there's the multibillion black farmers settlement.

28 posted on 09/16/2011 5:54:02 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: Altura Ct.

No more BIA money too?

Free the Indian Tribes.


29 posted on 09/16/2011 6:08:31 AM PDT by CPT Clay (Pick up your weapon and follow me.)
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To: Altura Ct.
I, myself, am a member of the Canarsie Kumquats.
30 posted on 09/16/2011 6:08:57 AM PDT by OldMissileer (Atlas, Titan, Minuteman, PK. Winners of the Cold War)
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To: Happy Rain

LOL, we have a treaty with the indians and it requires annual payments, the government has cheated them out of billions over the years, who shares in the back payments owed is the question. It is either that are give them, most of Tennessee, Georgia and North Carolina . The money is due and payable, by court order. LOL


31 posted on 09/16/2011 6:09:46 AM PDT by org.whodat (so Perry's purchase price starts at $5001.00: and $29,000 , was a sell.)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
In this case it is more the government trying to give Indian money to blacks. Who claim they are part Indian no proof required. Who would think Holder and Obummer would try such a thing.
32 posted on 09/16/2011 6:13:30 AM PDT by org.whodat (so Perry's purchase price starts at $5001.00: and $29,000 , was a sell.)
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To: Altura Ct.

They’re Cherokee when the Federal government is counting heads to hand out money. They’re not Cherokee when it comes to dividing up the money from the casino. It’s one of those public vs private debates.


33 posted on 09/16/2011 6:23:22 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: blueunicorn6
Google cobell settlement funds 2011. 3+ plus billion.
34 posted on 09/16/2011 6:36:40 AM PDT by org.whodat (so Perry's purchase price starts at $5001.00: and $29,000 , was a sell.)
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To: MestaMachine

The US Government entered into a treaty with the Cherokee Nation in 1866 wherein the Cherokee agreed to bestow their citizenship on Black Slaves held by the Cherokee prior to the end of the Civil War. Now the Cherokee are telling the decendents of those freed slaves — turned Cherokee citizens — that their citizenship is revoked. Nice, huh?

Still, when you think about it the tribal nations are always drawing lines as to “how much blood” is required to be considered members of the tribe. Chances are good that most of these 280,000 have even less blood of the freedmen in their veins.

None of this would matter much if it weren’t for the gambling revenues.


35 posted on 09/16/2011 8:49:29 AM PDT by Tallguy (You can safely ignore anything that precedes the word "But"...)
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To: Tallguy

Agreed 100%. My comment was really about the reporter’s silly PC refereences.
The Cherokee are still trying to re-aquire the Delaware who left the tribe of their own volition taking their assets with them. Those gambling assets are top priority.


36 posted on 09/16/2011 8:58:11 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Wanna confuse obama? Ask him his REAL name.)
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To: OldMissileer

I heard the Canarsie Kumquats had a slammin’ volleyball team!


37 posted on 09/17/2011 10:42:22 AM PDT by Silentgypsy (If this creature is not stopped it could make its way to Novosibirsk!)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

....and don’t forget the casino revenue. We have one local “tribe” that consists of an elderly squaw and one daughter - they run (well, own...not run) a very successful small casino.


38 posted on 09/17/2011 10:45:06 AM PDT by ErnBatavia (Obama Voters: Jose Baez wants YOU for his next jury pool.......)
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To: cizinec
How did Dwight Birdwell vote?
39 posted on 09/17/2011 11:09:00 AM PDT by Little Bill (Sorry)
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