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Perry vs. Bachmann: Who Wins the Debate Over HPV Vaccine?
Fox News ^ | September 16, 2011 | Dr. Manny Alvarez

Posted on 09/16/2011 5:40:16 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty

As the debates rage on among GOP presidential hopefuls, one particular issue has caught my attention. Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn., has entered a particularly bitter battle with Gov. Rick Perry over his 2007 executive order requiring that all sixth-grade Texas girls be vaccinated against the human papillomavirus (HPV), which is a risk factor for developing cervical cancer.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bachmann; hpv; perry; rinos4perry; vaccination
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1 posted on 09/16/2011 5:40:20 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

Neither.. its not a big issue.. its a manufactured issue..


2 posted on 09/16/2011 5:42:04 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

Well if you take off points for being a liar....Perry.


3 posted on 09/16/2011 5:45:32 PM PDT by Grunthor (Almost any republican currently running for POTUS would be light years better than Obama)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

Doesn’t matter, don’t care.


4 posted on 09/16/2011 5:45:32 PM PDT by chris37 (representative)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

Arguing from an anectdote is always a losing argument, Perry wins.


5 posted on 09/16/2011 5:47:42 PM PDT by HerrBlucher ("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." G.K. Chesterton)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
It's been a big loser for Bachmann.

Fortunately, that means the issue will go away and more important things can be debated.

6 posted on 09/16/2011 5:52:54 PM PDT by Kazan
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

Perry should say he was simply overcome with emotion in doing everything within his power to protect young girls from an insidious disease called cancer and then reiterate what he has already admitted, that he made a mistake.

And then be done with it and let others dwell on it.


7 posted on 09/16/2011 5:53:36 PM PDT by JNRoberts
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

It seems to me the issue is deeper than this one instance.

Does Ricardo have statist tendencies?

Should the goobermint regulate business to save us from global warming, regulate salt and fast food to make us healthier, and otherwise nanny-state us?

Leftists don’t have a problem with the “individual mandate” in ObummerCare because they think having the government tell you what to do is O.K.

I don’t like mandates and I don’t like nannystaters.

I think it’s good that Perry says he was wrong on the Gardasil deal. But is he saying the reason he was wrong was because the power of government should not take away individual freedom and responsibility? Or that he was wrong because he didn’t “message” his action appropriately?


8 posted on 09/16/2011 5:54:22 PM PDT by SharpRightTurn
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To: hosepipe

I would disagree with you here. The whole controversy is over worldview....either we believe in fascism or freedom. Government mandating any known toxins into the body without permission of an adult is fundamentally unconstitutional. The ideology of such a person is one of fascism.

Our whole medical system —regulations, research set-up, government grant connections are very troubling and John Stuart Mill is exactly right. We are ending into a totalitarian state with no freedom from government intrusion into our personal lives.

This issue is the core of what true freedom is.....either we are responsible adults who can make our own decisions when we have the WHOLE TRUTH (not just the Big Parma agitprop) or we have government masters who tell us what we have to do-—particularly with our children.

Either Freedom or a nanny state.


9 posted on 09/16/2011 5:56:05 PM PDT by savagesusie
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
.

.

10 posted on 09/16/2011 5:57:24 PM PDT by Cobra64 (Common sense isn't common anymore.)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

Both lose.


11 posted on 09/16/2011 5:58:47 PM PDT by DRey (Perry/Rubio 2012)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

Nobody wins THIS debate because both have obscured the real argument and are now debating a false premise. MB shot herself in both feet and Perry is hiding behind her blunder.
The real issue isn’t even being discussed.
All things being equal, on the real issue which has been lost in the ether, Perry wins by MB’s idiotic forfeit.


12 posted on 09/16/2011 5:59:59 PM PDT by MestaMachine (Wanna confuse obama? Ask him his REAL name.)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

There is no debate. There is merely an attack by a disgruntled and scorned woman who has abandoned reason in her fear of total campaign disaster.

The disaster is over and no FEMA to make her whole again. Michelle was


13 posted on 09/16/2011 6:00:44 PM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ....Rats carry plague)
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To: savagesusie

This is such an overblown non-issue. (Except that it convinced me I don’t want to vote for Bachmann.) Are you saying we’re in a nanny state because children have to be vaccinated against all kinds of diseases ALREADY? Have you been railing against vaccinations for the past 60 years, or did you just decide that vaccinations = fascist nanny state after you heard about Perry and Gardasil?


14 posted on 09/16/2011 6:05:59 PM PDT by SueAngel
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

He was for it before he was against it. If the subject was Romney, what would the answers be? He has a history of trying to force his will on Texans. TTC, Gardasil, instate tuition, endless open border favoratism. Is that anyone’s idea of getting government out of our lives? You can put lipstick on this guy all you want, but it won’t hide his record.

Run Sarah Run!


15 posted on 09/16/2011 6:07:39 PM PDT by stilloftyhenight
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
I think Perry does. He learned his lesson about abuse of executive power and executive orders. The EO was never implemented, because the legislature passed repeal legislation with near unanimous margins. Governor Perry signed the legislation rather than go through the embarrassment of having a veto overridden almost unanimously.

Bachmann comes off as shooting her lip off without having the facts, and it's not the first time she's done this. Hell, she even confused John Wayne with John Wayne Gacy.

16 posted on 09/16/2011 6:12:25 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: hosepipe

Ditto


17 posted on 09/16/2011 6:13:01 PM PDT by TribalPrincess2U (Rabid democRATS and 0bama the dictator own it all now.)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

The Perry aide won, he got the money, and we do not know about any cold cash, but is this drug company still giving Perry money.


18 posted on 09/16/2011 6:13:27 PM PDT by org.whodat (so Perry's purchase price starts at $5001.00: and $29,000 , was a sell.)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

The Perry aide won, he got the money, and we do not know about any cold cash, but is this drug company still giving Perry money. But you could say cronyism won.


19 posted on 09/16/2011 6:14:38 PM PDT by org.whodat (so Perry's purchase price starts at $5001.00: and $29,000 , was a sell.)
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To: savagesusie

Good post! Thanks for the clarity.


20 posted on 09/16/2011 6:15:32 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: Cobra64
He is dead jim.
21 posted on 09/16/2011 6:16:21 PM PDT by org.whodat (so Perry's purchase price starts at $5001.00: and $29,000 , was a sell.)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

Perry....Bachmann destroyed herself...put a folk in her she is done....Michelle has lost her way...in the scripture we are warn against exactly what she did.


22 posted on 09/16/2011 6:19:36 PM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: org.whodat
.

"He's dead Jim."

.

23 posted on 09/16/2011 6:19:54 PM PDT by Cobra64 (Common sense isn't common anymore.)
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To: savagesusie

I don’t get the fascism angle. Wasn’t there a “parental opt out” option?


24 posted on 09/16/2011 6:22:10 PM PDT by bragginright
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To: TwelveOfTwenty; JoeProBono; a fool in paradise
Tomorrow's headlines today:

Gardasil's Attack Watches Solyndra!


25 posted on 09/16/2011 6:22:11 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

The final score is going to be:

Number of Republican Nominations Won in 2012:
Perry 1
Bachmann 0
Romney 0
Huntsman 0
Gingrich 0
Paul 0
Cain 0
Santorum 0
Pawlenty 0
Johnson 0
Palin 0


26 posted on 09/16/2011 6:23:29 PM PDT by samtheman (Palin. In your heart you know she's right.)
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To: Grunthor

Since jobs and the economy are the major issues according to recent polls, I think Bachmann lost and Perry won. Obviously Bachmann has nothing to go after Perry with regarding the Texas economy under Perry.


27 posted on 09/16/2011 6:26:10 PM PDT by tsowellfan
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To: SueAngel

Government should do what it is designed to do and no more. If you haven’t noticed-—it’s most important job is to control the borders. It’s effectiveness in that shows you how well it will do in healthcare mandates, etc. It will kill people and lie and tell you it is good when it will cause known problems and lots of unknown problems like sterility and autoimmune problems.

Are you telling me that Perry should practice medicine—or should use force of government to create billions of dollars for Big Pharma? There are scientists who say the vaccine was not only harmful, it doesn’t even protect against most of the cancers....nor even for sure the ones it claims. They are using girls as guinea pigs.

Mandating Hep B vaccinations for healthy infants should be a crime...and pediatricians who advocate healthy babies to have those toxins injected into healthy babies should be put in jail. They have no idea of long term effects and know there are known toxins in each injections that are harmful to babies.

So—government should get out of medicine-—out of education so stupid indoctrinated people like Perry are not created who are fascists at heart.

Prior to the socialist Dewey’s takeover of education, we had people who understood John Stuart Mill and the evil of government interference.

I repeat....Either we have freedom to make our own educated adult decisions that involve the health of our children and ourselves or we allow fascist government officials to make our decisions for us.

History shows.....that we, with the likes of Perry’s philosophy, are on the road to a Marxist, totalitarian state. That is my point.


28 posted on 09/16/2011 6:31:03 PM PDT by savagesusie
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To: tsowellfan
If Representative Bachmann were a big picture, analytical thinker she could have questioned whether the dynamics that made the Texas economy a success (often at the expense of other States) can be replicated on a national scale. That would have been a fair and arguable question that could have started a larger conversation.
29 posted on 09/16/2011 6:37:39 PM PDT by gov_bean_ counter
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To: bert
There is no debate. There is merely an attack by a disgruntled and scorned woman who has abandoned reason in her fear of total campaign disaster.

Bachmann had every right to raise the issue and point out Perry's mistake. Where she screwed up was taking it too far and making a fool out of herself. Bachmann's shrieking "OMG THE POOR 12 YEAR OLD GIRLS! OH THE HUMANITY. WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN! And then saying the shot causes mental retardation. Good grief, she comes off as an insane woman considering the vaccination program never actually got off the ground.

The sad thing is, on the issues, Bachmann is the most solid in the field. Her problem is she's just doesn't seem very presidential. She may be able to tear Perry down a little, but it will do nothing to build herself up.

30 posted on 09/16/2011 6:40:55 PM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: Paleo Conservative

Governor Perry signed the legislation rather than go through the embarrassment of having a veto overridden almost unanimously.


Did Perry actually sign the legislation overriding his EO or did he allow the legislation to become law without his signature?

Everyting I’ve read indicates he didn’t sign the legislation but allowed it to become law without his signature.

Here’s an example:

Snip
Governor Perry signed the legislation rather than go through the embarrassment of having a veto overridden almost unanimously.

http://www.kdhnews.com/news/story.aspx?s=15798


31 posted on 09/16/2011 6:42:31 PM PDT by deport
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

The other GOP presidential candidates


32 posted on 09/16/2011 6:43:33 PM PDT by italianquaker ( Mr Obama inherited an AAA rating and made it AA, thnx Resident Zero)
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To: savagesusie
Did your kids get all the required vaccines to go to school?

You need to brush up the facts or quit bloviating, the Gardisil vac. had a Parental Opt-out. They did not deny any student school attendance because of any Opt-out.

Bachmann IMPULSIVELY took the word from some unknown person in the crowd who apparently made a false claim, Bachmann stupidly blabbed it on Greta as if it was proven science. Now her people don't know how to walk it back and as it is turning out the Lady from Minn. has taken hundreds of thousands more from the pharmas than the measly $5K she was bashing Perry about.

My problem with this whole thing is Bachmann is impulsive and has a bad tendency to open mouth before starting brain. This is a very big deal when considering the position she is running for and that impulsiveness could have very grave consequences.

Face it, Bachmann was just politicing for a VP slot with Mutt, because she knows darn well she ain't gonna be #1.

33 posted on 09/16/2011 6:44:15 PM PDT by dusttoyou ("Progressives" and ronpaulnutz are wee-weeing all over themselves, Foc nobama)
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To: gov_bean_ counter

That would have been an excellent question!


34 posted on 09/16/2011 6:45:14 PM PDT by tsowellfan
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To: All
http://caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2011/09/15/michele-bachmanns-former-campaign-manager-calls-hpv-comments-a-mistake/?odyssey=obinsite

Michele Bachmann’s former campaign manager calls HPV comments a “mistake”

The political strategist who was Michele Bachmann’s campaign manager until just 10 days ago had critical words for the candidate in a cable-news interview this morning.

Ed Rollins said on MSNBC today that Bachmann made a mistake by suggesting the human papillomavirus vaccine could cause “mental retardation” after a Republican debate earleir this week.

“She made a mistake,” Rollins said. “The quicker she admits she made a mistake and moves on, the better she is.”

35 posted on 09/16/2011 6:45:47 PM PDT by TexMom7
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To: tsowellfan
As a Congresswoman I always admired her fight. As she got into the campaign I became painfully clear that she doesn't take the time lo lock down critical data. To shoot from the hip with bad info is tolerable for a Representative but not for a President. Bottom line.
36 posted on 09/16/2011 6:48:30 PM PDT by gov_bean_ counter
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

Gov Perry because he apologized and said given the opportunity to do it over he would have handled it differently but...there was an opt out option.

Bachmann won’t let it go and now she is out there again talking about it and making it worse for herself. She was attacking and still is attacking one of the candidates. This is going to doom her campaign.


37 posted on 09/16/2011 6:51:24 PM PDT by cubreporter (From TEA to Shining TEA - Go Rush Limbaugh..a giant of all that is good.)
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To: JNRoberts

he DID say he similar. He DID apologize. Bachmann just wouldn’t let it go becuase she thought she was making points.


38 posted on 09/16/2011 6:53:23 PM PDT by cubreporter (From TEA to Shining TEA - Go Rush Limbaugh..a giant of all that is good.)
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To: JNRoberts

he DID say he similar. He DID apologize. Bachmann just wouldn’t let it go becuase she thought she was making points.


39 posted on 09/16/2011 6:53:31 PM PDT by cubreporter (From TEA to Shining TEA - Go Rush Limbaugh..a giant of all that is good.)
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To: JNRoberts

he DID say he similar. He DID apologize. Bachmann just wouldn’t let it go becuase she thought she was making points.


40 posted on 09/16/2011 6:53:38 PM PDT by cubreporter (From TEA to Shining TEA - Go Rush Limbaugh..a giant of all that is good.)
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To: bragginright

Why should people be required to “opt out”.

They should rid all this “opt out” stuff—it creates all this nonsense people don’t have time for....they should have to “opt in”.

The “opt out” is because most people won’t bother to go through the hassle. It is the laziness in man’s nature. The psychologists understood this when they created the notion of “opt out”.

The fascism angle is that government dictates to adults what they should decide for themselves. We are supposed to have individual freedom to make decision concerning our lives and those of our children. Government is a necessary evil—as the Founders understood. It needs to be restrained. It has no business in education and medicine. Like John Stuart Mill said.....once the camel’s nose is under the tent, it will lead to tyranny....always.

The states interest is only how to get more power and money for itself....it never cares for the people...never. It is the nature of power. They do not care about the health of our girls no matter what they say and should have no connections with money grants to studies for university research, etc. It is all a fraud and to sell their agenda....and if you knew what there agenda is....you would puke.

That is why politicians lie and cover up. They NEVER reveal their intentions.....unless they are true statesmen who really care about the future of the country.....Haven’t seen many of those in awhile and Perry goes with the Puppet masters as is shown by his immigration policies, vaccine policies, homosexual marriage thinking, etc. No different than Bush and McCain, etc.

We need to change our path.....we are headed for a totalitarian state. Tocqueville stated that it is the end of democracy.....and our government run schools teach our children that we are a democracy—just so we will become a totalitarian state.....Even Plato and Aristotle knew that democracy leads to tyranny, always. We need to become a Republic—and get back to the Constitutional legal system which has been abandoned for a century.

Government needs to get out of practicing medicine and DOE needs to be abolished so we have thinking Americans again.


41 posted on 09/16/2011 6:53:44 PM PDT by savagesusie
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To: savagesusie

Bulls eye! I salute you! Mandating from government funded research and conclusion is extremely troubling, especially as government becomes broader and more centralized. Government tentacles have infiltrated too many parts of our lives.

The vaccine push is one example. Diseases are just a manifestation of symptoms, caused by a toxic external and internal environment. You would not use gasoline to put out a fire. For many people that is exactly what vaccines do. There are many more prudent protocols that can be followed to achieve similar results without the dangers.

Stay Strong and IN Great Health..

http://web.mac.com/rblaylock/Russell_Blaylock_M.D./Swine_Flu_Data.html

The above reference material is completely footnoted, referenced and graphed.


42 posted on 09/16/2011 7:05:34 PM PDT by mazz44
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To: savagesusie

AMEN! Well Said!


43 posted on 09/16/2011 7:09:08 PM PDT by mazz44
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To: savagesusie

Great post!

Stay Strong and In Great Health...


44 posted on 09/16/2011 7:12:34 PM PDT by mazz44
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To: Paleo Conservative
Regarding the facts there's a huge study referenced in the background of the debate concerning transmissibility of HPV ~ the FOX News article above cites a doctor who says you can get HPV only through sexual transmission.

The gigantic worldwide study says that's BS ~ that actually it's known to be transmissible through other means, but not with the frequency of sexual transmission.

First, they place some bounds on this by noting that FEW women have ever been found with HPV infection who have not also been sexually active. On the other hand they have found antibodies to HPV in infants, and in people who have never engaged in sexual intercourse, or anal intercourse.

It doesn't get passed around in sneezes, but sex isn't the only route.

Plus, we are talking about people in who we can measure antibodies ~ and that right there may be part of the problem in determining if their other pathways to infection. It is known that some people "catch" HPV and it creates genital warts yet other people "resist" HPV and no genital warts are ever created ~ the body simply destroys the virus and that's end of story. The level of antibodies for those with stronger immune systems may well be below the sensitivity of the technique used to detect them.

What that would mean is our understanding of HPV is based mostly on it's impact on people who are susceptible to infection! Healthier folks (those not susceptible to infection) simply don't leave a trace.

The sexual intercourse vector may well be nothing more than an artifact of the measurement process ~ this stuff could be floating around like flu germs for all anybody really knows!

Transmissibility is not the issue here ~ rather folks should be more concerned with lifetime infections and the effects ~ to wit, various sorts of cancer.

We're probably inconveniencing 99% of the population who will never get any of these cancers to preserve the genome of the 1% who end up with cancer from HPV infection.

45 posted on 09/16/2011 7:28:46 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: org.whodat

I don’t know, is Glaxo (Ceravix) still giving money to Bachmann?


46 posted on 09/16/2011 7:32:29 PM PDT by Sudetenland (There can be no freedom without God--What man gives, man can take away.)
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To: bert
There is merely an attack by a disgruntled and scorned woman who has abandoned reason in her fear of total campaign disaster.

I pretty much agree. I hate high drama. It's unbecoming in someone who desires to be the President. I really thought Michelle Bachmann came off as a histrionic menopausal crazy person in need of Hormone Replacement Therapy.

I'd rather see her going after Obama's policies that are driving us towards the abyss, than Rick Perry.

47 posted on 09/16/2011 7:35:37 PM PDT by sockmonkey (Freepers, please turn yourself in at attackwatch.com)
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To: savagesusie
I keep reading that King Perry admitted he made a mistake. (I know what the mistake was but I have yet to read IF Perry knows what his mistake was.) I am discovering that TEA PARTY is a mask getting used by some for 'salvation' politics. Obviously the reason for the first TEA PARTY was dumping government tea, because of taxation/mandates without representation. I have never read the 'tea' was not of good quality.

It did take some time after the Texas legislature removed the king's crown for him to get it that he did NOT have the sole power to mandate anybody to purchase that product.

IT does not matter one bit that everyone who bought health insurance whether or not they ever got the vaccine was going to be forced to pay higher premiums so the some could get the vaccination. There was NO informed consent to the many when who were to be forced to pay for the few to receive government vaccines. See some people are more special than the rest, get out your check book politics.

Wonder how many vaccinations could have been handed out had Merck not been out buying up politicians? This to me goes to the 'core' of real concern about the plague of sexually transmitted cancer. They did spend quite a pot of gold to get elected official to mandate/tax uninformed consumers of health insurance. But I digress this was a 'salvation' movement and we cannot question well paid for good intentions. Liberals in TEA PARTY costumes.

This kind of government operation is 'bad' if you are an establishment liberal, but establishment republicans get praised for taxation/mandates if it is for the better good. You can be comforted that today in Iowa, Governor Perry was asking people to 'trust him', so the salvation movement is gaining ground.

I still like Bachmann, and I find great irony in her getting dragged through the proverbial mud because she repeated what an audience member told her after the debate. See it was ok for king Perry to hold court with 'cancer' victims after the legislature handed him is crown. But Bachmann is suppose to sit down shut up and bend down to king Perry. NOT happening in my little neck of the world.

48 posted on 09/16/2011 7:44:00 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Paleo Conservative
The EO was never implemented, because the legislature passed repeal legislation with near unanimous margins. Governor Perry signed the legislation rather than go through the embarrassment of having a veto overridden almost unanimously

But he did sign it. Wouldn't it be nice if Obama yielded to the people's will and abandoned Obamacare? Wouldn't it be nice if he admitted he overstepped and retracted anything instead of fighting every step of the way.

The issue to me is that Perry's the first pol I've seen in a while who flat out admitted he was wrong and agreed to reverse his decision without spinning it to death.

Perry won and Bachman lost big time..

49 posted on 09/16/2011 7:55:52 PM PDT by Kenny
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

They both lost.


50 posted on 09/16/2011 7:56:41 PM PDT by Pharmboy (What always made the state a hell has been that man tried to make it heaven-Hoelderlin)
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