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Braving the China Seas
spectator.org ^

Posted on 09/17/2011 11:37:56 PM PDT by tsowellfan

It's called the "South China Sea" and China wants everyone to recognize it that way. The only problem? A few other countries feel differently.

It's called the "South China Sea" and China wants everyone to recognize it just that way. There is no question in Beijing's official mind that this body of water is entirely within Chinese sovereignty. The problem is that Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Taiwan all have claims to a portion of that immense body of water by virtue of the fact that portions of their countries are bordered by that sea. This is to say nothing of the competing claims over the Paracel and Spratly Islands. The Chinese attitude is that these are all spurious claims and only they -- and their navy and air force -- can lawfully operate on, in, and above these, up till now, international waters. Everyone else should get their permission...

(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: china; japan; paracel; southchinasea; spratly; vietnam

1 posted on 09/17/2011 11:38:01 PM PDT by tsowellfan
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To: tsowellfan

China senses a window of opportunity with Obama that would definitely close if a Republican is elected in 2012. Whether they are confident enough about their military expansion to fully exploit it is another question entirely.

The refit of the ex-Varyag in itself is not that significant. The ship’s engines work, but there is no airwing and recent photos have surfaced that indicate they are now installing at least one catapult — which is going to mean at least a couple more months of yard time before they can button her back up and send her out to sea.

My gut feeling is they’re bluffing now. They can squawk and talk, but they don’t “quite” have the weight to do much yet. And hey, bluffing’s cheap.


2 posted on 09/17/2011 11:46:49 PM PDT by Ronin (If we were serious about using the death penalty as a deterrent, we would bring back public hangings)
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To: tsowellfan

Why don’t they just buy it?


3 posted on 09/18/2011 1:52:16 AM PDT by dila813
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To: tsowellfan
"China wants everyone to recognize...that this body of water is entirely within Chinese sovereignty."

"By the way, this assertion is now extended to include the East China Sea, much to the consternation of Japan."...

Oh, and the Pacific Ocean too!

Which would cause consternation in the United States were the Americans not too preoccupied with such niceties as protecting darter snails from mean oil company executives, extending welfare to illegal immigrants, electing politicians who just can't do without expensive jet planes to entertain family and friends, completing the work of the 60s hippies--not to mention borrowing more money from China to finance another spending spree--that sort of thing.

4 posted on 09/18/2011 3:18:57 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("That is the great eternal question: Are 'Liberals' evil or stupid?" ~Ann Coulter)
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To: tsowellfan
Hey--you remember in The Good Earth that old dowager, who spent all her time smoking opium and, whenever told that there was no more money for opium, demanded: "Sell more land"!

That's the decadent 21st century Americans for you! "Borrow more money!"

Meanwhile, the hard working, ascendant peasants (one of whom had been her slave) became richer and richer, bought up more and more of her land, until they kicked the old lady off her throne and wound up living in the old dowager's palace!

Man! If anybody understands the cycles of ascendancy and decadence it's the Chinese!

And if anybody can't learn from history (and thus gets to repeat it) it's the decadent 21st century Americans!

5 posted on 09/18/2011 3:33:56 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("That is the great eternal question: Are 'Liberals' evil or stupid?" ~Ann Coulter)
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To: Savage Beast

Good analogy


6 posted on 09/18/2011 3:45:14 AM PDT by kalee (The offenses we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: tsowellfan
"When you have the firepower available to Admiral Willard you can afford to speak that softly."

Okay for now, but if you don't have the money, you can't buy the firepower.

7 posted on 09/18/2011 3:46:37 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("That is the great eternal question: Are 'Liberals' evil or stupid?" ~Ann Coulter)
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To: kalee
I was hoping you would tell me I'm psychotic. And that all those millions out there, drugged out on Leftist opium and armed with the vote, are figments of my paranoid delusions.

Please tell me this is not reality.

8 posted on 09/18/2011 3:51:39 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("That is the great eternal question: Are 'Liberals' evil or stupid?" ~Ann Coulter)
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To: Savage Beast

Sorry, it’s unfortinately too true.


9 posted on 09/18/2011 4:01:54 AM PDT by kalee (The offenses we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: Ronin
which is going to mean at least a couple more months of yard time before they can button her back up and send her out to sea.

Add to that the fact that, as a nation that has never operated a carrier before, once they do get Varyag "operational"(both the ship and an airwing) it'll take them a decade or two to for them to figure out how to properly run one.
10 posted on 09/18/2011 4:05:44 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: Savage Beast
Land? GeeOpie - we don't need no steeenking land. 
 
Our "Fithcally Conthervative" dowagers built themselves an enterprise that will run forever on a perpetual motion a$$paper printing press...
...we are unveiling its crowning jewel.  I am proud to announce that the state of Texas is investing $20 million from the Texas Enterprise Fund to help Countrywide Financial...
--Governor Ricardo Perry
http://governor.state.tx.us/news/speech/10202/
 
Somebody sold the Emperor a "Jewel" made of glass in the shape of an albatross...  but it does go well with his finely tailored un(D)erwear.

11 posted on 09/18/2011 4:18:55 AM PDT by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: LomanBill
Yes. The old dowager: "Print more money!"

I heard a brainless U.S. newsreporter (but I repeat myself) on TV a few weeks ago breathless with consternation that the Republicans would not increase the national debt limit: "Can't they understand that we face a national financial crisis?????"

It hadn't occurred to her that borrowing more makes the crisis even worse.

12 posted on 09/18/2011 4:31:37 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("That is the great eternal question: Are 'Liberals' evil or stupid?" ~Ann Coulter)
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To: Ronin
US policy on this subject began under Bush and has continued under Obama.

Overlapping claims and disputes are to be pre-negotiated by the interested parties and then submitted to UNCLOS. And, these pre-negotiations would be multi-lateral.

So, in the Arctic, US, Canada, Denmark, Norway, and Russia negotiate within the Arctic Council.

Britain, Argentina, and Chile negotiate within the OAS.

The China Sea nations would negotiate within ASEAN and in the recent ASEAN meeting this was a very prominent subject.

China wants to do it bi-laterally with each nation and they already have a bi-lateral agreement with Japan.

In the eastern Mediterranean Sea Israel and Cypress have a bilateral agreement while Turkey and Lebanon are disputing that agreement.

13 posted on 09/18/2011 6:41:31 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks tsowellfan.
The Chinese attitude is that these are all spurious claims and only they -- and their navy and air force -- can lawfully operate on, in, and above these, up till now, international waters [the South China Sea]. Everyone else should get their permission...

14 posted on 09/18/2011 7:25:59 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: stylecouncilor

East Sea ping....


15 posted on 09/18/2011 8:05:42 AM PDT by onedoug (If)
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To: tsowellfan
Chinese landing and invasion craft.


16 posted on 09/18/2011 8:34:06 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: LomanBill

Your post:
“...we are unveiling its crowning jewel. I am proud to announce that the state of Texas is investing $20 million from the Texas Enterprise Fund to help Countrywide Financial...

—Governor Ricardo Perry

http://governor.state.tx.us/news/speech/10202/

Just Wow.


17 posted on 09/18/2011 10:06:05 AM PDT by TEXOKIE (Anarchy IS the strategy of the forces of darkness!)
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To: LomanBill

Your post:
“...we are unveiling its crowning jewel. I am proud to announce that the state of Texas is investing $20 million from the Texas Enterprise Fund to help Countrywide Financial...

—Governor Ricardo Perry

http://governor.state.tx.us/news/speech/10202/

Just Wow. I hope this quote gets legs.


18 posted on 09/18/2011 10:08:39 AM PDT by TEXOKIE (Anarchy IS the strategy of the forces of darkness!)
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To: TEXOKIE

>>Just Wow. I hope this quote gets legs.

Yep.

The Emperor is walking down the street in his Albatross Un(D)erwear.


19 posted on 09/18/2011 10:26:49 AM PDT by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: tsowellfan
The are already counters to this Chinese build-up...paltry as it is.

Japan has the second-best Navy in the world and growing. Today, even the Indian Navy would challenge China at sea...though the littorals of the South China Sea are more challenging for them.

Of course, the USN transits and lingers at will, unchallenged by all.

The only advantage China has in the South China Sea is the fact they can put 100's of aircraft into the mix from their land bases...but those are not sufficiently capable to take on the USN or Japanese AAW resources.

No, China is blustering simply because nobody has told them to STFU.

I KNOW how such things were handled when Reagan was POTUS. We would hold Naval exercises for 3-4 weeks just outside the 12 mile limit and DARE the bad guys to come out and play. We still have that capability.

20 posted on 09/18/2011 11:07:18 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: tsowellfan
Admiral Willard's attendance at the Strategic and Economic Dialogue in Beijing

I know most here won't be bothered by this, but I for one cherish civilian control of our diplomatic contacts.

21 posted on 09/18/2011 4:31:55 PM PDT by triumphant values
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