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Reno Race Accident Investigation Continues
Aero News Network ^ | Mon, Sep 19, 2011 | staff

Posted on 09/19/2011 7:18:13 AM PDT by PilotDave

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To: PilotDave
Here's a lawyer, already a website!

http://www.nevadaairshowcrashlawsuit.com/

61 posted on 09/19/2011 8:38:11 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: PilotDave
Here's a lawyer, already a website!

http://www.nevadaairshowcrashlawsuit.com/

62 posted on 09/19/2011 8:38:30 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: FReepaholic
I'm expecting the 911 "truthers" to start shouting the assertion that this photo proves space aliens teleported the pilot to a nearby UFO in mid-race...his foot caught the tailwheel-down lever as his body exited the aircraft. "Truthers" can explain everything!/sarc
63 posted on 09/19/2011 8:47:34 AM PDT by Zman516
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To: LifePath
If so, it is very odd that the tailwheel is down (shouldn’t have been enough time)

This has been speculated on repeatedly. It's likely due to excessive g-force, vibration, or both. The consensus is the tailwheel lock was broken in the pitch-up. As for the missing pilot, either he's hunched over the controls in the front or the seat broke and he's all the way back. The g-force in the pitch-up was extreme (9+), and probably caused a blackout. The force might even have broken the seat. The aircraft rolled into a inverted dive in what looks like a torque roll - rotating around engine torque from the ultrapowerful modified engine. That may not have been a controlled maneuver.

I am not a high-performance piston pilot, and I don't understand nor would I speculate about what actions a pilot might take to recover from this condition.

64 posted on 09/19/2011 8:55:47 AM PDT by no-s (B.L.O.A.T. and every day...because some day soon they won't be making any more...for you.)
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To: PilotDave

Never fails...lawyers talking shitte about things they know nothing about... I expect he is trying to drum up business by entering his know nothing comments on this thread.. However that goes with the FR territory....him commenting on Aviation matters....tons of folks who didn’t know guardasil from right guard 6 months ago now spouting expert opinions....and on and on.


65 posted on 09/19/2011 8:56:05 AM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ( WER)
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To: PilotDave

Airshows draw millions and millions of spectators per year.


Could we draw a distinction between typical airshows, which are non-competitive exhibitions, and this (only?) air race, where there are competitive juices flowing, pride and a handsome purse at stake?


66 posted on 09/19/2011 9:01:35 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Are you better off now than you were four trillion dollars ago?)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver; no-s

I think both of your comments are spot on.

No-s, I would estimate the G loads were probably 20+? I’m amazed the plane didn’t completely disintegrate in mid air. One tough bird.

I’m truly embarrassed for some of the people who put their ignorance on public display here.


67 posted on 09/19/2011 9:04:26 AM PDT by PilotDave (No, really, you just can't make this stuff up!!!)
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To: Mamzelle

I think flying a poorly-test highly-modified, and very recently modified at that, aircraft over a crowd shows a JERK of the highest order.


Like the gentleman who flies his warbird low and loud over houses (including mine) early on certain Sunday mornings.

Or anyone on a Fartley-Davidson “motorcycle”.


68 posted on 09/19/2011 9:04:26 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Are you better off now than you were four trillion dollars ago?)
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To: no-s
“This has been speculated on repeatedly. It's likely due to excessive g-force, vibration, or both.”

Just to add a little perspective - I have been on-board for many flutter test flights - thankfully all of which proved the aircraft did not have a flutter problem. However a fellow I know was on-board a business jet undergoing testing that DID encounter flutter. The control wheel was ripped out of the pilots hand, and the control column vibrated back and forth at such a rate that it was a blur and neither of them could grab it. A flutter event is violent, and often shakes the aircraft apart. There is some famous footage of a stealth fighter that had aileron flutter and it tore the wing off.

69 posted on 09/19/2011 9:05:38 AM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: Zman516

I’d speculate that the absent pilot was due to a failed seat structure under the high G forces that followed a control surface failure. Other photos of the same plane and pilot have his helmet nearly scraping the inside of the canopy.

The seat was probably something light and relatively fragile for racing.

The G forces probably failed both the seat and the tail wheel retention structure.


70 posted on 09/19/2011 9:07:52 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Are you better off now than you were four trillion dollars ago?)
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To: Beelzebubba

“Could we draw a distinction between typical airshows”

Not really. If you’ve ever been to Reno you saw that there are aerobatic displays between each race heat. One of my good friends (David Martin) who flies the Brietling Capp 232 was there and flew in the airshow this year. He and his wife were very close to impact... not good.


71 posted on 09/19/2011 9:10:02 AM PDT by PilotDave (No, really, you just can't make this stuff up!!!)
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To: PilotDave

My point was that airshows lack competitive race events. The fact that arguably unreasonably dangerous races have some exhibitions (and static displays, and hamburgers for the kids) is irrelevant to my point.


72 posted on 09/19/2011 9:13:18 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Are you better off now than you were four trillion dollars ago?)
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To: no-s

Your description sounds very plausible. I had not seen that explanation before. Thanks.


73 posted on 09/19/2011 9:14:18 AM PDT by LifePath
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To: PilotDave

If the G load was anywhere near 20 + there is good reason not to see the pilot.... I don’t think those airplanes are modified for G suits...and even if they were with those kind of G’s....wouldn’t be any help. Out of curiosity where did you come up with the 20 G figure?...


74 posted on 09/19/2011 9:20:19 AM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ( WER)
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To: PilotDave
the G loads were probably 20+?

I just guesstimated the lower limit from the videos and maps. But you're probably right. That kind of sustained g-loading on the human body is in the range where internal injury and instant fatal loss of blood pressure is likely.

When I was planning my time off this September I thought about going to Reno. It's so difficult to put this show on, I wondered if it would keep going in the recession. Hope there will a next year.

75 posted on 09/19/2011 9:21:30 AM PDT by no-s (B.L.O.A.T. and every day...because some day soon they won't be making any more...for you.)
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To: I cannot think of a name

“thankfully all of which proved the aircraft did not have a flutter problem”

LOL. Me to. For the lurkers/members of the general public, flutter is an aerodynamic condition where a flight control will shake violently back and forth. The faster you go the more dangerous it is. The engineers fight flutter by building the parts strongly and by balancing the weight of the flight controls by putting weight in front of the pivot points of the controls.
Think of a flag shaking violently in the wind or a dog shaking his chew toy. Usually fatal.
Go here for more study, there will be a quiz later...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroelasticity


76 posted on 09/19/2011 9:23:13 AM PDT by PilotDave (No, really, you just can't make this stuff up!!!)
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To: Beelzebubba

You make a good point.

A failed seat frame could have tipped him over backwards as he zoomed into a climb to take care of the loose flopping elevator trim tab. Then, as he flailed about trying to sit back upright, his hand caught the tailwheel handle. With only seconds to get back upright and retake control, he was doomed.


77 posted on 09/19/2011 9:25:03 AM PDT by Zman516
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To: PilotDave
There are many ways to detect metal fatigue. X=ray, eddy current, visual, ect. This Accident probably had NOTHING to do with metal fatigue. Most likely aerodynamic flutter caused the tail to fail. They may be looking at any mods to the tail or maintenance issues. If I was the mech who did the elevator install I’d be pretty nervous.

Right answer. That trim tab came off. However, that would not have made the craft uncontrollable. However, if the trim tab came off because of flutter, that means the aircraft was already uncontrollable. Another possibility is that the trim tab came off and the subsequent change in balance caused the elevator to go into flutter. Which would have made the craft uncontrollable.

Flutter is a harmonic effect that has positive feedback thus increases with time. The time is measured in seconds or fractions of seconds. Flutter can rip a flying surface off in a mere instant.

Flutter is bad!

78 posted on 09/19/2011 9:33:23 AM PDT by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Mud Man, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist. THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR!)
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To: PilotDave
“Think of a flag shaking violently in the wind or a dog shaking his chew toy.”

For some of us a little older, we probably saw flutter demonstrated first hand. When I was a kid there where “pinwheels” sold at stores and carnivals. These were a wooden dowel about a foot long with some kind of plastic wheel attached to the end. When you held it in the wind, or moved it around really quickly, the wheel would spin. Of course the next idea that would pop into your head was,”hey, I'll put this out the window of the car and then it will really spin.”

So as Dad starts the car moving you put the device out the window. Sure enough as the car moves faster, the wheel moves faster. Then suddenly it's not spinning any more, but doing some kind of wild flapping maneuver. Like any normal six year old, you realize the line of aero-elastic force has crossed the static strength line, and the unit has now become self-exticing unstable. Or something like that. At any rate, you just saw flutter.

79 posted on 09/19/2011 9:35:58 AM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: Zman516

As I recall there is a bulkhead right behind the pilot seat, of course it’s hard to tell how these were modified over the years.. I guess the point is at this point in time it’s just speculation for those of us who have some experience around those kinds of machines.


80 posted on 09/19/2011 9:40:02 AM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ( WER)
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