Posted on 09/19/2011 12:12:21 PM PDT by Brookhaven
At the edge of the tailwater of the Kinzua Dam on the Allegheny River in Warren County sits a hydroelectric generating station.
But the Seneca Pumped-Storage Hydro Generating Station isn't powered by the water flowing through the dam, like the more familiar hydroelectric projects such as Hoover Dam, but rather from a 2 billion gallon reservoir perched some 800 feet above, among the trees of the Allegheny National Forest.
"Pumped-storage hydro is a different animal," said Mark Durbin, spokesman for the facility's operator, First Energy Generation Corp.
Durbin pointed out the station can generate 451 megawatts of electricity, but only for 10 hours a day. It then takes 14 hours to pump water back up to the perfectly round upper reservoir, about the size of a small NASCAR track, to start the process again, he said.
The station also uses more electricity than it generates, so at a glance it might seem absurd. But for those in the business of keeping the lights on, it's a valuable asset that helps the utility make money and meet the fluctuating demands of the power grid, noted civil engineer Rick Miller, who works for the Nebraska-based firm HDR Inc.
(Excerpt) Read more at altoonamirror.com ...
The math still works because of the differential in demand from daytime to nighttime. There is excess capacity at night. Every bit of that capacity costs money to obtain, so instead of wasting it they use it to pump the water, thereby increasing the capacity for daytime use. Win-win.
Don't you stock up on canned goods when they are on sale?
That's not a problem. Energy storage is key. That's why hydroelectric is the only renewable that makes any sense were energy is stored in reservoirs behind dams. Or pumping water to a sufficient height and storing it as potential energy. The higher you can pump it the more energy available.
Greens don’t like dams anymore. Good luck trying to get one built.
I guess you just flip a switch to turn on teh wind or sun? You see, the demand is regular and quite predictable- unlike both sun and wind systems.
Using the excess capacity during off peak usage hours is the most efficient wayt to meet demand.
I agree that wind and solar could be used to help out, but it is not the solution everyone thins it is. Often, the trade off is a much higher cost per unit enegry than current systems, so until consumers understand that “green” technologies both cost more and are less reliable, we will continue to run on hydro, nuke, coal and petro-fueled plants. Just the facts.
Wait until such is attempted- and the power browns out philly or DC or NYNY etc, THEN deal with teh fallout in termsof lawsuits etc....
No easy (espc. “green”) solutions.
Is it actually energy storage? If you take heat away from water to make ice you are actually removing energy.
And I agree about Solar and Wind. Too many issues like distribution and conversion. All equal higher cost.
However...
In this situation, you don't have to worry about feeding the energy back onto the grid. Just feed it to the pumps that fill the reservoir. Not far from the original idea of a windmill on a farm.
May I suggest a programmable thermostat? If you have any problems with homemade Minnesota designs you could find another brand, but I prefer Honeywell.
There's no reason at all these devices can't be built with a standard controller loaded with a "best use" program where all you'd need to do is enter time of day and zip code.
Deviations would take a bit more effort.
Check my response at #49.
Wouldn’t be better to just let less water out of a regular hydro dam?
I hate to rain on everyone’s parade but the Kinzua (Kin-Zoo) reservoir had little to with either flood control or power generation. You need to think more sinister. I know. I grew up there.
Yes “Efficiency” is a relative term. But to my knowledge there is not any conventional power plant near the Seneca plant to try out your idea.
Your evaporation pond idea does have a realationship to something that was actually tried.
Israel built a pond in the desert to make a solar power plant.
It had a heavy brine solution on the bottom and a fresh water layer on top.
The brine on the bottom would get very hot. There were heat exchangers submerged in the brine to carry the heat away. To another heat exchanger that boiled a fluid with a low boiling point that was used to drive a turbine.
Unfortunately I have never heard how well it worked.
Why I guess it is also a SCAM to buy straw hats in winter and sell them in summer.
I guess we also have to read your mind. Hmmmm. I am trying. No picking up anything.
What does zip code have to do with it? If your going to adjust the room temperature why not figure out an algorithm that calculates the optimum cooling temperature by measuring the return wetbulb, outdoor dry bulb and the amount of time it takes to raise the set-point in the room a degree Fahrenheit. You could then program the modulating condensing fan, the modulating compressor, the modulating TXV, and the modulating evaporator fan to all work together to form an ultra-efficient air conditioning system. You could buy a Fujitsu mini-split A/C system and see how all of this works out.
In the good old days they did that through approximation based on lunar cycles of 18 years. Today, we can do better.
Should be able to plunk all the insolation and "growing zone" data in there on a chip for use by the program ~ no matter where the A/C is sold.
Thanks fore the info. I used to live out west when Hydro power was so cheap, all new houses were built with electric heating. The envirowackies have really screwed things up.
I was mentioning the aqueduct idea in a tongue and cheek manner, why use electricity when gravity is free? I wasn’t aware of the pump and reserve feature, but it does make sense.
You’re assuming a hydro dam’s existence. This is for places where there is no such dam. There are very few hydro dams in the Eastern US.
Well I have to admit that I am guilty of not reading the article. Where I grew up all hydro was in mountainous areas I didn’t think to corralate it to an area like Nebraska.
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