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Rep. Ryan: Rick Perry is right on Social Security
The Hill ^ | September 20, 2011 | Alicia M. Cohn

Posted on 09/21/2011 2:58:05 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

The Republican chairman of the House Budget Committee on Tuesday drew fire from Democrats for backing Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s description of Social Security as a “Ponzi scheme.”

Social Security fits the technical definition of a Ponzi scheme, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) told conservative Laura Ingraham on her radio show.

“It’s not a criminal enterprise, but it’s a pay-as-you-go system, where earlier investors — or say, taxpayers — get a positive rate of return, and the most recent investors — or taxpayers — get a negative rate of return,” he said. “That is how those schemes work.”

Perry’s description of the Social Security as a “Ponzi sceheme” has been attacked by former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, Perry’s leading challenger for the GOP presidential nomination. Romney criticized Perry for scaring seniors and wanting to abolish the program, warning that the Republican nominee needs to work to reform the program.

“They’re both right,” Ryan said of Perry and Romney. “[Social Security] is not working, it is going bankrupt, and current seniors will be jeopardized the most by the status quo.”

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee pushed back against Ryan’s comments.

(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: perry; perry2012; ponzischeme; retirement; socialsecurity
“It’s not a criminal enterprise, but it’s a pay-as-you-go system, where earlier investors — or say, taxpayers — ....

Mitt Romney called Social Security "a criminal enterprise."

1 posted on 09/21/2011 2:58:12 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Good for Ryan. I have had high hopes for him.


2 posted on 09/21/2011 3:03:27 AM PDT by Sarah-bot (Hi Mom :-p)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

With all due respect, who on this forum would disagree? Your helium balloon is filled with lead on this one.


3 posted on 09/21/2011 3:05:26 AM PDT by mazda77
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To: mazda77

Of course it is a Ponzi Scheme,there is No argument there,the Problem is WHAT the Hell do you do about it.
Like Fast and Furious,We have committed an act of war against the State of Mexico by shipping thousands of High Powered Weapons to Barbaric Drug lords which have Killed Hundreds of Mexicans,Been used against their Police which are Operating on American Taxpayer Dollars and we to this date have Not even briefed mexican law enforcement or Government authorities. Now was Watergate more or less notorious? Where is the Press or the Clowns running for the Republican Nomination on this?
Talk about outrageous.


4 posted on 09/21/2011 3:29:38 AM PDT by ballplayer
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To: mazda77

With all due respect, how many of these “Ponzi Scheme” articles are there going to be? WHO CARES? The real story is ithat the system will go broke unless someone submits legislation that will fix it, WHICH HAS HAPPENED!.

Last Tuesday, Republican Presidential candidate, Cong. Thaddeus McCotter, introduced the SAVE SOCIAL SECURITY ACT (HR 2889) which saves Social Security WITHOUT raising the Payroll Tax, WITHOUT raising the retirement age, WITHOUT REDUCING BENEFITS, and WITHOUT privatizing the system. WHERE ARE THE STORIES? WHERE ARE THE ANALYSES? WHY THE BLACKOUT?


5 posted on 09/21/2011 3:29:57 AM PDT by cumbo78
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To: ballplayer

OF COURSE IT IS OUTRAGEOUS! My point was obviously missed because I did not elaborate. As far as this forum is concerned, so what if Ryan agrees? We here know what to do about it and that is simply throw all career politicians out on the keester.

We know that very few people under consideration for the nomination have the guts to call it what it is and for that I give Perry credit for launching into the breach but just because someone else agrees with it is not the end all for his ultimate credibility.

I guage his credibility on the whole picture and being that not one of the declared candidates says anything in the debates about F&F to me is a very bad mark on them all, including Perry. Why is every politician afraid of making the F&F mounting evidence a campaign issue?

Not only do we have people in our own country dead because of this gun control wet dream, Mexico now says that over 200 have died in their country because of it.

Nobody died because of Solyndra or Lightsquared and whatever else is sure to come along because the real nasty one is being covered up by distractions like this story that Ryan agrees with Perry. WE GET IT ALREADY! And we have known it is a ponzi scheme since anyone of us looked at it objectively.

So with all due respect, Perry gets one atta-boy but who is counting the aw $h!ts on the rest of the picture?

Geez, this gets me steamed.


6 posted on 09/21/2011 3:50:06 AM PDT by mazda77
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Rick Perry told the truth about Social Security.


7 posted on 09/21/2011 4:05:17 AM PDT by novemberslady
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

How else could you describe a system that requires more workers to support retiring workers?

As a native Texan, there are several issues (immigration, vaccination) that I definitely disagree with Perry but on this one, Perry was absolutely correct.


8 posted on 09/21/2011 4:16:22 AM PDT by TejanoJim
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
“It’s not a criminal enterprise, but it’s a pay-as-you-go system...

Which means that you either end it for those currently drawing Social Security, so that the younger generations can use their money to save for their own retirement. Or you continue to tax those who will never see Social Security in order to continue to fund the retirement of those drawing it. Which does Ryan recommend?

9 posted on 09/21/2011 4:22:12 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: novemberslady
Rick Perry told the truth about Social Security.

Darn right he did.

And the Dems know that the American people know he did too.

10 posted on 09/21/2011 4:24:04 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: mazda77
With all due respect, who on this forum would disagree? Your helium balloon is filled with lead on this one.

Actually, a poster did just the other day. And a lot of establishment RINOs fear straight talk on entitlements - you know, the ones that have continually sandbagged conservative reforms to entitlement systems.

11 posted on 09/21/2011 4:42:16 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy; All
Walter Williams: Gov. Perry's Right About Social Security
12 posted on 09/21/2011 4:49:37 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; RoosterRedux; jonrick46; deepbluesea; RockinRight; TexMom7; potlatch; ...
Perry Ping....

IF you'd rather NOT be pinged FReepmail me.

IF you'd like to be added FReepmail me. Thanks.

*****************************************************************************************************************************************************


13 posted on 09/21/2011 5:21:33 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Hope Perry brings this up in Thursdays debate


14 posted on 09/21/2011 5:43:01 AM PDT by blueyon (The U. S. Constitution - read it and weep)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

People are forgetting one thing.

Social Security did not start out as a Ponzu scheme,THE DEMOCRATS TURNED IT INTO ONE.

It started out being paid for by people who would one day use it to subsidise their retirement. The money was in trust.

It was never meant as a total package for retirement.

It was turned into what it is today by Democrats, They stole the trust money and spent it, then they taxed it then they refused to admit it was going broke,when Bush tried to save it.

Today, Thanks to Democrats it is a Ponzi scheme.


15 posted on 09/21/2011 5:53:14 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Peter Schiff, Ron Paul, Max Keiser - Social Security Ponzi Scheme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kETGgP-Pq5s


16 posted on 09/21/2011 5:53:45 AM PDT by Mozilla
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To: Mozilla; blueyon; Venturer
Nov 4, 2010: CNN - Spitzer and Parker drill Perry on Social Security

You might get something from this exchange.

17 posted on 09/21/2011 5:56:38 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; P-Marlowe

Ponzi’s scheme was eventually been declared illegal, but when one uses the expression “Ponzi Scheme” that doesn’t mean one is talking about the illegality. It could be discussion about what the Scheme was that Ponzi actually dreamed up.

An “ace up my sleeve” might get me shot in a card game, but as a description of a strategy, it is simply a description. You put an ace up the cuff of your sleeve and pull it out when needed.

“Ponzi Scheme” can simply be a description of a system, a strategy.

The Scheme is to have a first generation of investors receive their payoff from a second generation of investors who receive their payoff from a third generation, etc. If you promise 5 investors 100 for a $50 investment, and then sell that same plan to 20 each 2nd generation investors, you can then pay the 5 original investors their payoff of $100. To pay the 2nd generation you need to come up with a minimum of 3rd generation investors to pay off the 20...the $2000 you owe them. Your plan, of course, is that the 40 hear that the 1st generation turned their money over very quickly, so they will give you the 2000 needed.

Each generation gets more difficult to pay until finally you have too many new investments to pay off the previous generation because you simply can’t find enough new investors.

That is the case with Social Security. A future smaller generation will not be able to pay off the previous generation unless someone lowers the amount that they must pay....or they simply refuse to pay anything at all or are so broke they are incapable of paying anything at all.

No one is saying Social Security is illegal when they call it a “ponzi scheme”. They are simply explaining how it has one generation pay off the investment of a previous generation.

That puts the lie to Social Security which was supposed to be an individual generation funding their own retirement.

Sadly, the government spends their money before they retire.


18 posted on 09/21/2011 6:01:49 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their VICTORY!)
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To: Venturer
People are forgetting one thing. Social Security did not start out as a Ponzu scheme,THE DEMOCRATS TURNED IT INTO ONE.

You are completely wrong. It was a Ponzi scheme from the get go. The first person to get a social security check paid in $250 and got over $25,000 in benefits before she died. This is not a retirement investment program, it is a welfare program.

19 posted on 09/21/2011 6:32:20 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; All

GRRRREAT posts! Thread BUMP!


20 posted on 09/21/2011 6:39:35 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Ron Paul Compares Social Security & Medicare To Slavery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzc1Dx530uc


21 posted on 09/21/2011 6:42:04 AM PDT by Mozilla
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To: xzins

It’s the same idea as “Macaca” — you use words to carve people up — and it’s selective “outrage” — manufactured for political “gotcha.”


22 posted on 09/21/2011 6:42:58 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Venturer
Social Security did not start out as a Ponzu scheme,THE DEMOCRATS TURNED IT INTO ONE.

Sorry but it was a Ponzi scheme from day one!

23 posted on 09/21/2011 6:53:44 AM PDT by Bigun ("The most fearsome words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help!")
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To: Mozilla
"Take the money and put it somewhere else -- make jobs and provide a service, help the economy; and God forbid make a few bucks for yourself!" Other People's Money
24 posted on 09/21/2011 6:53:44 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Venturer

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Just like Social Security!


25 posted on 09/21/2011 6:58:23 AM PDT by Bigun ("The most fearsome words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help!")
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I think its absolutely preposterous that I have to pay into something that I will probably never get access to since it will be bankrupt by the time Im ready to tap into it. This is worse than a ponzi scheme, at least in a ponzi scheme the victims are unaware of their plight.


26 posted on 09/21/2011 7:07:43 AM PDT by eak3
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To: All

So did big mouth Laura agree or disagree?


27 posted on 09/21/2011 7:18:37 AM PDT by Doofer ("If debt is the problem, how is more debt the solution"?)
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To: eak3
This is worse than a ponzi scheme, at least in a ponzi scheme the victims are unaware of their plight.

And aren't held in it at the point of a gun or paid with freshly printed paper!

28 posted on 09/21/2011 8:22:22 AM PDT by Bigun ("The most fearsome words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help!")
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Full Tilt poker a Ponzi scheme

From the article:

The poker site had promised players that their accounts were protected and wouldn't be touched. But authorities say that, as of March, the company had only $60 million left in its bank accounts to cover the $390 million it owed to players. It routinely mingled player money with its own finances, and took cash from some customers to pay out winnings due to others, prosecutors said.
Hmmmm. Sound familiar? Does the Social Security Trust Fund ring a bell? Social Security a Ponzi scheme? You be the judge.
29 posted on 09/21/2011 9:36:08 AM PDT by mc5cents
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I am a dissenting voice here, I know, but I think SS is a good idea, and it has been a good idea since 1935. I disagree that it is a ponzi scheme. My analogy is that it is like a group of people who get together to buy lotto tickets, in hope that they win in the future. The bigger the group, the better the odds of winning, and the smaller the take. SS is so big that winning is a certainty, but what you win is only a modest amount.

People who say “I’ll never get a penny back from it” are wise, because they will pay their 6.2% of salary, and still wisely invest for retirement out of the remaining 93.8% of salary. But you youngsters should know — I said the exact same thing in the early 1980s, before Reagan fixed SS for 50 years. And I’m looking forward now to my $1400/month to be collected in the not too distant future. (Plus - and this is important - if I die, my wife gets that. SS is also a life insurance policy for those of us who are married.)

I view SS as a tiny, wise side investment, that even if benefits are cut by 25% (as is the worst case projection for the next 100 years), it is still better than putting that 6.2% under the mattress. What you may not be considering is that SS is not hurt by inflation - high inflation, wages go up, and social security revenue goes up! And while you might put that 6.2% in stocks, remember that the DJIA has been growing slower than inflation for over a dozen years, and there’s no reason to expect it to do better in the near future.

SS is safe, wise, and more sure than any other investment you can make, including your mattress (because of inflation). Over 60 million Americans get social security right now. I think if any one of them complains, they are being hypocrits. And if you accept your social security check after complaining like I hear people here complain, you’ll be a hypocrit, too. But at least you’ll be a hypocrit who can buy groceries even if all your other investments collapse.


30 posted on 09/21/2011 12:25:59 PM PDT by TruConservative
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To: TruConservative
SS is safe, wise, and more sure than any other investment you can make, including your mattress

Okay..give it up!! You work for Congress, right?

31 posted on 09/21/2011 1:24:11 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum)
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To: Osage Orange

No, but I will be drawing a SS check in the not too distant future. I admit my defense of it is not without self-interest. But I do honestly believe it is a brilliant idea conceived by Americans and has been a strong benefit to America for 75 years, and will continue to be a strong benefit to America for many, many more.

Remember - there are no workable alternatives. The idea of government-run personal investments should be horrific to true conservatives - do you really want to give government the power to control your cash? (SS is only 6.2% of your pay - you still have the other 93.8% to invest on your own without government involvement.) And the idea of halting SS checks would be an economy destroyer, not to mention a tragedy for the 15 million who have no other income to speak of.

(And always remember - SS involves no investment, no corruption, only 1% overhead, is totally inflation proof, and is as solid as America.)


32 posted on 09/22/2011 4:34:05 PM PDT by TruConservative
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To: TruConservative
Are you kidding me??

The Feds are right this minute...spending your SSI monies on plenty of OTHER things.

THEY CONTROL IT!!

Not to mention FRiend....it's going BROKE!!!

33 posted on 09/22/2011 5:36:39 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Email going around—passing along...

Re: Social Security funds — it is maddening... Workers believe they’re footing retirements, older people believe they’re robbed, politicians use it to get votes and the government doesn’t want it to become privately operated....

Not only did you contribute to Social Security but your employer did too. It totaled 15% of your income before taxes.

If you averaged only $30K over your working life, that’s close to $220,500. If you calculate the future value of 4,500 per year (yours & your employer’s contribution) at a simple 5% (less an what the govt. pays on the money that it borrows), after 49 years of working you would have $892,919.98. If you took out only 3% per year, you’d receive $26,787.60 per year and it would last better than 30 years (until you’re 95 if you retire at age 65) and that’s with no interest paid on that final amount on deposit! If you bought an annuity and it paid 4% per year, you’d have a lifetime income of $2,976.40 per month. The folks in Washington have pulled off a bigger Ponzi scheme than Bernie Madhoff ever dreamed of.

Entitlement my ass, I paid cash for my social security insurance!!!! Just because they borrowed the money, doesn’t make my benefits some kind of charity or handout!!

Congressional benefits, aka, free healthcare, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days, now THAT’S welfare, and they have the nerve to call my social security retirement entitlements?

We’re “broke” and can’t help our own Seniors, Veterans, Orphans, Homeless, etc.! In the last months we have provided aid to Haiti , Chile , and Turkey... And now Pakistan... home of bin Laden. Literally, BILLIONS of DOLLARS!!!

Our retired seniors living on a ‘fixed income’ receive no aid nor do they get any breaks while our government and religious organizations pour Hundreds of Billions of $$$$$$’s and Tons of Food to Foreign Countries!

They have the unmitigated GALL to call Social Security and Medicare an entitlement though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives and now when its time for us to collect, the government is running out of money.

Why did the government borrow from it in the first place?

Imagine if the *GOVERNMENT* gave ‘US’ the same support they give to other countries.

Sad isn’t it?


34 posted on 09/24/2011 7:27:25 PM PDT by TribalPrincess2U (Rabid democRATS and 0bama the dictator own it all now.)
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